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socistep
2009-06-30, 10:37
Hi All,

Interesting discussion forming on the Sonos board

http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=13161

Cheers
Ian

radish
2009-06-30, 11:27
Meh, just fanboys going at each other. Hardly what I'd call interesting.

TiredLegs
2009-06-30, 12:04
Frankly, I agree with some of their comments regarding problems with the Duet Controller. I bought one, then quickly sold it to pick up another SB3.

socistep
2009-06-30, 12:27
Frankly, I agree with some of their comments regarding problems with the Duet Controller. I bought one, then quickly sold it to pick up another SB3.

Initially I had problems but its been fine this year, I've not upgraded to 7.3.3 yet though

autopilot
2009-06-30, 12:27
Sonos fanboys are worse than Apple, in my experience. Best left well alone unless you are the kind of person who buys kit, then likes a bit of back slapping and looking down and all the peasants that are not as clever as you. I have had a quick browse over at the Sonos forums on occasion, any mention of Squeezebox products and they are like a pack of wolves. The leader of the pack is Ro53ben, seasoned Squeezebox hater who wrote a review of the Duet on Cnet before it was even released. He got into a spat on here about it, and since then has been on a bit of a crusade ever since. Much of it is utter BS too, one thing i have seen claimed many many times recently, on various forums (and even by a Sonos forum moderator), is that the Sonos system is just a 'open' as Squeezecenter because it supports Upnp. I dont see many plugins or community contributed development though ;)

I think the Sonos system is excellent. But my advice would be to just leave them to it, it will always end up nasty. And the world could probably do without another Squeezebox Vs Sonos thread TBH.

Dingostrategy
2009-06-30, 12:53
And the world could probably do without another Squeezebox Vs Sonos thread TBH.

In the immortal words of Seinfeld. Look to the cookie, Elaine. Look to the cookie.

My goodness what a lot of balls. Surely it's about the music. However you pipe it to your brain has to be a good thing. A few rabblerousers, both here and there, should not detract from that basic point.

But I will say one thing - this issue has pricked my ears about the alleged 'touch' - more toys! Thankyou Sonos fans for raising my awareness. This is the spirit of brotherhood. Pop over for a Leffe and my new Tord Gustavsen CDs newly ripped to my opensource server - and we'll remember the whole freakin point of wireless transport.

And solidarity to Pippin, who copped a bit of .flac in all of this. His app works great for me and fair play to him for his approach to his work. I could not give half a bollock if it does not look as fancy as something else - it looks great to me anyway. Even if it looked like 'Pong' it would still play my tunes and that's what it's about, no?

Now if I can only fix my bloody squeezenetwork connectivity issue, I'll be chipper again!

method man
2009-06-30, 12:53
well ive had both in the last 4 weeks as richer sounds sold me more sonos bundle stuff than i needed. and i found i could easily get away with a duet. the sonos was a bit better out of the box. but now ive got this working well. its just as good. looks nicer. and i prefer the remote. i could have had either. money wasnt the issue. if my duet had been a let down. it would have gone back and i would have got the right sonos kit.

socistep
2009-06-30, 13:15
apologies all, its my fault for unintentionally opening the wound :-)

iPhone
2009-06-30, 13:34
In the immortal words of Seinfeld. Look to the cookie, Elaine. Look to the cookie.

My goodness what a lot of balls. Surely it's about the music. However you pipe it to your brain has to be a good thing. A few rabblerousers, both here and there, should not detract from that basic point.

But I will say one thing - this issue has pricked my ears about the alleged 'touch' - more toys! Thankyou Sonos fans for raising my awareness. This is the spirit of brotherhood. Pop over for a Leffe and my new Tord Gustavsen CDs newly ripped to my opensource server - and we'll remember the whole freakin point of wireless transport.

And solidarity to Pippin, who copped a bit of .flac in all of this. His app works great for me and fair play to him for his approach to his work. I could not give half a bollock if it does not look as fancy as something else - it looks great to me anyway. Even if it looked like 'Pong' it would still play my tunes and that's what it's about, no?

Now if I can only fix my bloody squeezenetwork connectivity issue, I'll be chipper again!

I will say one thing (or maybe a few more). Dingostrategy is right, it IS about the music. Both devices stream music and for me, Squeezebox does a better job of that for a lot less money (read able to buy more CDs which again its all about the music after all).

Cheers to Pippin for making a killer iPhone app for Squeezebox! And he is still making it better each day.

Toward the end of the Sonos Fanboy rants, the faithful even admit that the Sonos is lacking but blame that on the fact that Sonos is "staying true" to what it is and not following the market. "Our system has just been upgraded to a track limit of 65K", big deal, how about no track limit using SC! That "limit" is basically 5500 CDs which for most is plenty, but not for everybody. Why have a barrier if one doesn't have to? Sort of like that 640K memory thing or the year 2000 for PCs.

I still say it comes down to personal choice and how comfortable a person feels about home networking. And if one doesn't have a home network, there is something to be said about being able to buy Sonos. That solution will work with little to no effort and all that is needed is money.

socistep
2009-06-30, 13:50
I will say one thing (or maybe a few more). Dingostrategy is right, it IS about the music. Both devices stream music and for me, Squeezebox does a better job of that for a lot less money (read able to buy more CDs which again its all about the music after all).

Cheers to Pippin for making a killer iPhone app for Squeezebox! And he is still making it better each day.

Toward the end of the Sonos Fanboy rants, the faithful even admit that the Sonos is lacking but blame that on the fact that Sonos is "staying true" to what it is and not following the market. "Our system has just been upgraded to a track limit of 65K", big deal, how about no track limit using SC! That "limit" is basically 5500 CDs which for most is plenty, but not for everybody. Why have a barrier if one doesn't have to? Sort of like that 640K memory thing or the year 2000 for PCs.

I still say it comes down to personal choice and how comfortable a person feels about home networking. And if one doesn't have a home network, there is something to be said about being able to buy Sonos. That solution will work with little to no effort and all that is needed is money.

iPhone - you look to have a fair few "zones", whats your experiencing with syncing been ? At present I only sync 2, the Boom & the Duet and its flawless but wondered what it was like with more players ?

radish
2009-06-30, 13:58
Point of interest on syncing - on saturday we had a party. I had 2 Booms in different parts of the garden, a Transporter in the living room, and 2 SB3s in other rooms - all synced playing FLAC over wireless for something like 10 hours straight. My wife and I each had SBCs for control, as well as occasional iPeng use on my phone.

It just worked.

maggior
2009-06-30, 14:12
That's pretty impressive Radish! You've answered my question of how syncing players will hold up over a long time period.

Being impressed with the sync functionality in 7.3.3, I did an experiment using my setup. I had 2 SBRs, 1 SB3, and 3 Booms synced up streaming FLAC wirelessly to all players. That's 5 players going at the same time. I have smart fade enabled and was playing a mix. The fade transition was seamless.

I ran this for about 15 minutes. The stream kept playing flawlessly as I removed each player from the sync group. Pretty darn cool!

I can't wait to have a party :-).

autopilot
2009-06-30, 14:18
In the immortal words of Seinfeld. Look to the cookie, Elaine. Look to the cookie.

Could someone explain that to me please!

kolding
2009-06-30, 14:22
Sonos fanboys are worse than Apple, in my experience. Best left well alone unless you are the kind of person who buys kit, then likes a bit of back slapping and looking down and all the peasants that are not as clever as you. I have had a quick browse over at the Sonos forums on occasion, any mention of Squeezebox products and they are like a pack of wolves. The leader of the pack is Ro53ben, seasoned Squeezebox hater who wrote a review of the Duet on Cnet before it was even released. He got into a spat on here about it, and since then has been on a bit of a crusade ever since. Much of it is utter BS too, one thing i have seen claimed many many times recently, on various forums (and even by a Sonos forum moderator), is that the Sonos system is just a 'open' as Squeezecenter because it supports Upnp. I dont see many plugins or community contributed development though ;)


I love Ro53ben, or Jaffacake, or whatever his name is. He's funny. He thinks he understands both systems, but doesn't even really understand the system he advocates so heavily. He'll complain about something that Squeezebox does, then tell you it's the greatest thing in the world if the Sonos does it too. It's sooooo funny.

Eric

socistep
2009-06-30, 14:37
Point of interest on syncing - on saturday we had a party. I had 2 Booms in different parts of the garden, a Transporter in the living room, and 2 SB3s in other rooms - all synced playing FLAC over wireless for something like 10 hours straight. My wife and I each had SBCs for control, as well as occasional iPeng use on my phone.

It just worked.

impressive. On the Sonos forum I got flack related to SB kit not being proper "zones", not really sure what the difference is but that highlights the potential

Richie
2009-06-30, 15:08
iPhone - you look to have a fair few "zones", whats your experiencing with syncing been ? At present I only sync 2, the Boom & the Duet and its flawless but wondered what it was like with more players ?

I can't speak for iPhone but I regularly sync 3 Booms and 2 Classics and it also works flawlessly.

Richard

kolding
2009-06-30, 15:27
I can't speak for iPhone but I regularly sync 3 Booms and 2 Classics and it also works flawlessly.

Richard

I've done 5, including an SB1, which doesn't actually have the ability to do the advanced syncing of the newer players. No problems, they were all in perfect enough sync that I couldn't notice any variation. Perhaps the SB1 would drift if I gave it a really long song, but for most Rock/Pop songs (3-5 minutes), no drift was perceptible.

Eric

iPhone
2009-06-30, 15:46
impressive. On the Sonos forum I got flack related to SB kit not being proper "zones", not really sure what the difference is but that highlights the potential

First off a quick comment on Syncing Squeezeboxes, the issues have been solved for awhile now and the Sonos Troops are just going to have to give up on that one. I have had up to 8 Squeezeboxes in perfect Sync. Like I said, this is a non-issue anymore.

Not sure if I understand it either as I am not a Sonos Fanboy, but one of the impressions I get is that the definition of a Sonos Zone means it can stand alone or includes an amp. I have so many definitions for Sonos "Zone" because to me it depends on how they are trying to "justify" that Sonos is superior in each case. And after all Squeezebox doesn't need "Zones" (but you can have them if you want to) which makes it more versatile to me.

Notice how the Fanboys list number of Zones and not how many or what type players they have. Are they afraid to list the player types they have for fear that we will see just how much money they spent?! I could just as easily go into SC and name my players with Zone Numbers, but why? Its better to look at iPeng, SC, or the Controller and see "Transporter" or "Living Room" since I can call a Squeezebox Player or "Zone" whatever I care to. That way the better half isn't asking, "What is Zone 5 again?". Before the Flaming starts, I don't know and don't care if Sonos can name zones or not, just saying the Fanboys like there Zones. Guess it makes it easier to see at a glance just how many Sonos units they own as the "Zone" numbers go up.

Lastly, I could have certainly afforded to buy 10 Sonos Zones but my choice was Squeezebox for several reasons. The Transporter for one. No track limitation in SC (I'm sure there is one, but I know its way above 16,000 CDs worth of tracks). And so on.

pippin
2009-06-30, 15:46
iPhone - you look to have a fair few "zones", whats your experiencing with syncing been ? At present I only sync 2, the Boom & the Duet and its flawless but wondered what it was like with more players ?

I've done 6.
Works perfectly with mp3 and low bitrate (44.1/16) flac.
AAC and higher bitrate flac causes trouble with more than two since my server has to transcode then and runs into the limit of it's capacity (it's a Via C7, 1GHz, so no really fast machine).
Oh, and I only have three devices wired (plus the server, which may be the more important point).

shake-the-disease
2009-06-30, 15:51
I've done 5, including an SB1, which doesn't actually have the ability to do the advanced syncing of the newer players. No problems, they were all in perfect enough sync that I couldn't notice any variation. Perhaps the SB1 would drift if I gave it a really long song, but for most Rock/Pop songs (3-5 minutes), no drift was perceptible.

Eric

That's interesting. I have an SB1 and wanted to add a Boom soon and sync them. I hadn't heard about the SB1 not supporting syncing as well as later devices.

Dingostrategy
2009-06-30, 22:51
Could someone explain that to me please!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnd3cduU_f0

The remark in this context refers to the fact that surely there is room for both systems (and others). Clearly they both have their fans, detractors, strengths and weaknesses. Obviously I favour SD/LTs longevity, but I do not hope for the demise of alternative systems nor a pox on their users. Both can exist in harmony and in fact there are certain benefits in having multiple solutions on the market. That's not too hard for most folks to see, whether they use Sonos, SB or a Walkman(R) the size of a Quran or two cans and a piece of freakin' string.

iPhone
2009-06-30, 23:15
iPhone - you look to have a fair few "zones", whats your experiencing with syncing been ? At present I only sync 2, the Boom & the Duet and its flawless but wondered what it was like with more players ?

I have had very good experiences in Syncing all or as many of my players as I want for what I have going on in the house at the time. The last few SC updates have really cleared this area up. IMO it is fixed to the point that only total number of Sync'd Players reaching a maximum or running out of bandwidth using wireless or running FLAC without enough CPU & memory are now the only limits. And these as I said just seem to be limits, not issues with Syncing as these are limits that would be reached whether the Players are Sync'd or all playing something different.

I am running the Sync just as it is. I have not messed with any options or setting.

iPhone
2009-06-30, 23:18
Could someone explain that to me please!

It's about why can't we all get alone no matter what our differences are. I think this You Tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlLPAIrmqvE&NR=1) might work better at explaining it since its most of the scene.

ptrainer
2009-06-30, 23:58
I regularly sync 7 SBRs playing flacs. It works great but my units are all connected via Ethernet. Running only wirelessly you might run into issues when adding more and more players. I used to have SB1s in the mix but they caused sync problems so I got rid of them.

panos_k75
2009-07-01, 02:05
my 2 cents...I don't own Sonos but my friend does...money wasn't an issue. The main issue that kept me away from purchasing a Sonos is the luck of features and especially the ability to create clever mixes (see MusicIP or Genius). Having said that, there have been times that I wanted to throw my SC system out of the window and I will admit that there have been many occasions when I was so close in going to Sonos...If they supported MusicIP or Genius or something similar I would be very tempted. You are right it's all about Music in the end, but sometimes the frustration can take the best out of me.

gregklanderman
2009-07-01, 06:59
>>>>> pippin <pippin.3um8e01246402082 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:

> AAC and higher bitrate flac causes trouble with more than two since my
> server has to transcode then and runs into the limit of it's capacity

Is the server transcoding independently for each synced player?
That seems like a bug..

greg

pippin
2009-07-01, 10:38
>>>>> pippin <pippin.3um8e01246402082 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:

> AAC and higher bitrate flac causes trouble with more than two since my
> server has to transcode then and runs into the limit of it's capacity

Is the server transcoding independently for each synced player?
That seems like a bug..

greg

Not sure.
But I see it's having trouble streaming 96/24 material to the transporter and at the same time sending transcoded 48/24 to other players. May well be a server bandwidth issue, as I said, it's not really powerful.