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Nikhil
2009-05-24, 23:16
Was surprised to see this on the Sonos site, but a search here didn't turn up anything. Does anyone know what this is all about?

http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=13043&highlight=squeezebox

Sike
2009-05-25, 01:15
Now we're talking!!

On a side note: Long live the slimp3!

peter
2009-05-25, 01:55
Nikhil wrote:
> Was surprised to see this on the Sonos site, but a search here didn't
> turn up anything. Does anyone know what this is all about?
>
> http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=13043&highlight=squeezebox
>

Interesting! I'll be interested to see the battery life on the portable
player. Could be interesting.

This one's nice too:

"A very appealing device that looks like a touch-screen, stand-up
version of the Sonos controller, with jacks in the back to connect to
your powered speakers or stereo, and a headphone jack. It's as if the
Sonos controller was mashed up with the iPod touch controller and the
ZP90. This will be $299."

I actually 'suggested' that product not too long ago. I'll probably be
getting one if they look nice. A big(ger) display with album display and
a touch screen interface would be perfect for the living room. I'll
mostly be using the controller, but this is really nice to have as a
focus point. I do REALLY hope the headphone jack supports IR and
PowerSwitch...

Regards,
Peter

gorman
2009-05-25, 03:31
Quite an attitude in the first reply to that thread.

"It's a cheaper product that usually appeals to those who can't afford Sonos."

Wow... never though of myself as an "el cheapo" customer. :|

Also, multiroom functionality is now perfect on a wired connection (can't speak about wireless as I would never trust flawless music playback to Wi-Fi, which is prone to interference, no matter what Sonos might be stating...).

Edit: I don't have direct experience with Sonos products, just to be clear.

autopilot
2009-05-25, 04:19
Quite an attitude in the first reply to that thread.

"It's a cheaper product that usually appeals to those who can't afford Sonos."


I would pay little attention to RO53BEN (also known as jafacake) if were you. Seasoned Squeezebox basher and tedious Sonos uber-fanboy, famous for his long running and tireless anti-squeezebox campaign.

gorman
2009-05-25, 07:59
I would pay little attention to RO53BEN (also known as jafacake) if were you. Seasoned Squeezebox basher and tedious Sonos uber-fanboy, famous for his long running and tireless anti-squeezebox campaign.Thanks, it helps in putting stuff in context. :)

BlueScreenJunky
2009-05-25, 09:07
Oh...
let's wait and see but I'm not really excited about those. I was more waiting for an upgraded, higher end SB Classic, something that would go between the SB Classic and the Transporter. I'm not really into fancy touchscreens and controllers.


also :

a boombox/clock-radio for $299
Sounds like a SB Boom to me ^^;

MikeekiM
2009-05-25, 10:00
It's more than just a boom... I was talking to someone a few months ago from Logitech, and told them that while I loved the Boom, it was still just a little too big for me to consider it an bedside alarm clock...

What I was looking for was something much smaller (like the old Sony Dream Machine clocks)... I told them that I really didn't care if it was stereo or mono...just that it be made for a bedroom side table...

When I finished (and again, this was a couple of months ago), the person told me "just wait...we are coming out with something that is just what you are looking for"...

I doubt they will come out with a mono "cube" sized unit... It'll probably be more like a rectangle shaped product so that they can fit two small stereo speakers in it... I just don't see them going mono...

jo-wie
2009-05-25, 13:16
A big and readable color display maybe, but a touch screen? Why do I need a touch screen on the stationary system. I need a good remote.

iPhone
2009-05-25, 13:42
Thanks, it helps in putting stuff in context. :)

As for RO53BEN on the Sonus Forum and I believe known as Jafacake on this Forum, he rants about Sonos and bashes (most of the time incorrectly) Squeezebox. Appologees to Jafacake if he is indeed not RO53BEN.

At the end of his Squeezebox Bashing, he trys to justify his incorrect points by comparing Squeezebox to iPods set up in separate runs. First a Squeezebox has full higher fidelity stereo output then the Sonos from either analog or digital outs and can be Sync'd and/or controlled from anywhere in ones home. He needs to learn or research a product before he states what it can or can't do. The Squeezebox can do so much more then the Sonos anyday of the week and there is only one thing Sonos can do that a Squeezebox can't, and that is require one to us an expensive propriatary wireless network and force me to use their amp! I believe that Sonos now has an app for iPhone also. Sonos has its place, but for most people they can save a bunch of money and have much better results with Squeezebox.

Pale Blue Ego
2009-05-26, 08:24
OK, this spate of new hardware coincides with Sean's departure, so what might that tell us? It seems like Sean decided to stay through this product development cycle before seeking new pastures. I postulate that Sean's role has been diminished for quite a while, as Logitech continues to release products which are variations on the SB3 platform. They are essentially taking Slim's work on the SB3 and repackaging it with Logitech-type enhancements like portability, built-in speakers, and color-screen remote control. Which is fine, but it doesn't give Sean much to do.

Goodsounds
2009-05-26, 09:15
OK, this spate of new hardware coincides with Sean's departure, so what might that tell us? It seems like Sean decided to stay through this product development cycle before seeking new pastures. I postulate that Sean's role has been diminished for quite a while, as Logitech continues to release products which are variations on the SB3 platform. They are essentially taking Slim's work on the SB3 and repackaging it with Logitech-type enhancements like portability, built-in speakers, and color-screen remote control. Which is fine, but it doesn't give Sean much to do.

Your comments make sense to me.

I'd posted some months ago that it is unusual for founders to stay around for so long after an acquisition. It appears the reason they did is that there is a contingent payout from Logitech to Sean et al if 2009 revenue exceeds certain levels. He would have been motivated to do whatever possible to contribute to 2009 performance but in any event would have normally been expected to leave after the contingent payout either is or isn't achieved. My guess is that there will be more departures in the coming months.

I welcome the evolution of the basic technology to new forms and hope that gives the product line something more than the only modest success it has had to date. While the technology is awesome and has done so much for the enthusiasts who visit here (and the silent majority who don't), the failure to achieve significant market success could ultimately doom the whole undertaking. But it may be that it is indeed a niche market of limited size.

Dingostrategy
2009-05-26, 10:26
Yes yes I know it's been asked before....

But, would anyone care to consider my hypothesis that if SD came out with a 'box' - think something like a NAS or a fitPC or mac mini (or the sonos lump), Squeeze would be almost entirely on a par with Sonos? BUT SD would have the added benefits of being totally tweakable with opensource mods, and of course one is not limited to proprietary amplifiers?

Further, the notion that SD is no good for multiple rooms has been demonstrated to be utter balls time and time again. Fair enough sonos is just plug and play, but even with my junk server and router, I handle three just fine through concrete walls, without any hint of a delay in syncing. Once or twice, I admit to having had sync issues on SN but its a tiny price to pay, and takes a few seconds to fix by pausing and restarting (might be just lucky).

All these new products is getting confusing. I thought we were all just using SB3s until we could afford transporters and other geat to justify one (and a boom for the guestroom!)

Keep the gear simple and tidy/slick up the back end (server and controller) and what we have is something for everyone.

I add that I have used sonos. Its a neat party trick and anyone can use it. Sounds good and is reliable. I just find the SD stuff so much more flexible to fiddling around with different requirements. Price was not a factor in my case since I initially had high-end gear after the transport even though now as you can see in my sig I have crud. A handsome controller and an optional in house server thingamajig would cause some headaches over at sonos (but I do concur that both have space in the market).

andynormancx
2009-05-26, 11:44
He needs to learn or research a product before he states what it can or can't do. The Squeezebox can do so much more then the Sonos anyday of the week and there is only one thing Sonos can do that a Squeezebox can't, and that is require one to us an expensive propriatary wireless network and force me to use their amp!
It seems ironic that you are bashing someone for being misinformed about Squeezeboxes and then you go on to state something incorrect about the Sonos...

In no way do the Sonos boxes force you to use their amp. One of the zone players doesn't even have an amp ! The other one has digital and analog audio outputs, allowing you to bypass the amp.

eganders
2009-05-26, 15:49
Your comments make sense to me.

I'd posted some months ago that it is unusual for founders to stay around for so long after an acquisition. It appears the reason they did is that there is a contingent payout from Logitech to Sean et al if 2009 revenue exceeds certain levels. He would have been motivated to do whatever possible to contribute to 2009 performance but in any event would have normally been expected to leave after the contingent payout either is or isn't achieved. My guess is that there will be more departures in the coming months.

I welcome the evolution of the basic technology to new forms and hope that gives the product line something more than the only modest success it has had to date. While the technology is awesome and has done so much for the enthusiasts who visit here (and the silent majority who don't), the failure to achieve significant market success could ultimately doom the whole undertaking. But it may be that it is indeed a niche market of limited size.

And there are probably some non-compete provisions in there too, otherwise, one might expect to see Sean move to video players (and maybe he still can as video might just have been a gleam in the eye when Logitech first purchased Slim Devices). Though reading Sean's comments on the forum, he's always seemed to be an "audio" guy.

I don't disagree that the market hasn't become as large as some have wished for. Though personally I think it's kind of cool having something really special that everyone else doesn't have. Nonetheless, everyone I've introduced to the SB lineup to has been sufficiently impressed, and many have purchased product. At this point, I doubt if too many of them would be willing to go back to just a "radio." We've all read comments about SB or Sonos, and the desire to dump particular product. I can't recall ever reading that someone wants to dump the technology and go back to FM radio.

Famous people have often uttered a phrase similar to "I worked 20 years and finally I'm an overnight success." The Internet digital revolution is working it's way down that same path - Squeezebox included. Before too long, all the major HiFi manufacturers will jump on the band wagon too. It may be slow, but the train is coming.

dsdreamer
2009-05-26, 16:49
It will be hard to support a mass market media streaming eco-system on 11g, as the bandwidth is getting to crowded and home users don't usually do site surveys. A major source of performance complaints in these forums are basic connectivity issues.

Sonos has a proprietary mesh-flavored approach to solving this, if I understand correctly. Draft 802.11n in the 5GHz UN-II bands is probably the nearest we have to a real solution, but none of the SD products supports that, yet. Take a look at the range extension you can get from .11n these days and apply that at 5GHz and you have given yourself scope to provide really reliable wireless streaming.

My main point is that growth is not possible without reliable and plentiful wireless bandwidth with a decent shot at whole house coverage.

BastiaanR
2009-05-27, 01:06
It will be hard to support a mass market media streaming eco-system on 11g, as the bandwidth is getting to crowded and home users don't usually do site surveys. A major source of performance complaints in these forums are basic connectivity issues.

Sonos has a proprietary mesh-flavored approach to solving this, if I understand correctly. Draft 802.11n in the 5GHz UN-II bands is probably the nearest we have to a real solution, but none of the SD products supports that, yet. Take a look at the range extension you can get from .11n these days and apply that at 5GHz and you have given yourself scope to provide really reliable wireless streaming.

My main point is that growth is not possible without reliable and plentiful wireless bandwidth with a decent shot at whole house coverage.

I would love support for the N wireless standard. Not that the SB itself needs it, but I'm using the SB as a wireless bridge for an old XBOX running XBMC, and I use that to stream movies to my TV.

BastiaanR
2009-05-27, 01:08
Actually, the SlimDevices K.R.O.N.O.S. could do with an update too.

peter
2009-05-27, 02:10
jo-wie wrote:
> A big and readable color display maybe, but a touch screen? Why do I
> need a touch screen on the stationary system. I need a good remote.
>

I suspect the new touch screen SB won't have the usual SB3 menu's, but
will run squeezeplay instead. Think of it more like a big standing up
controller with line and digital outputs. If that's true, perhaps you
won't be able to use the classic remote, but just a controller, or
perhaps some new type of remote.

Regards,
Peter

jo-wie
2009-05-27, 03:30
jo-wie wrote:
> A big and readable color display maybe, but a touch screen? Why do I
> need a touch screen on the stationary system. I need a good remote.
>

I suspect the new touch screen SB won't have the usual SB3 menu's, but
will run squeezeplay instead. Think of it more like a big standing up
controller with line and digital outputs. If that's true, perhaps you
won't be able to use the classic remote, but just a controller, or
perhaps some new type of remote.

Regards,
Peter

I was thinking about where it makes sense to have those extented controls on a unit which could be a replacement for a SB3. Makes no real sense for me. But in a narrow enviroment like a kitchen could it be an enhancement, like the buttons on a Boom. And I saw some posts of people who build a touch screen system and found it in the daily use at least useless.

And I do not know what "touch screen" means: a interactiv screen control like a iPod touch, or more simply a touch triggert control like on the Logi Z-10 speakers?

signor_rossi
2009-05-27, 07:13
I was thinking about where it makes sense to have those extented controls on a unit which could be a replacement for a SB3. Makes no real sense for me. But in a narrow enviroment like a kitchen could it be an enhancement, like the buttons on a Boom. And I saw some posts of people who build a touch screen system and found it in the daily use at least useless.

And I do not know what "touch screen" means: a interactiv screen control like a iPod touch, or more simply a touch triggert control like on the Logi Z-10 speakers?

What if this big stationary touch screen controller includes an ARM based fanless server that can run SC? Of course it then would have to include either wireless N in the case that the music would be stored on a NAS or it would have to include an USB or eSATA port for external hard disks...

jo-wie
2009-05-27, 09:16
What if this big stationary touch screen controller includes an ARM based fanless server that can run SC? Of course it then would have to include either wireless N in the case that the music would be stored on a NAS or it would have to include an USB or eSATA port for external hard disks...

Interesting, my vision is a receiver incl. a SC server :). But 802.11N is not a solution as long as it is a DRAFT. Just have a look at the problems people do have with compatibility between G devices. And I suppose that some new upcoming problems with G units are due to inteferences with draft N AP which a more and more used by the people (ok, not at 5GHz). And interoperability between draft N units, is this as good as between G units?

maggior
2009-06-02, 19:48
This has made for some interesting reading. It seems to have been quiet on the SB front lately. I chalked it up to slowed development due to a slowed economy.

I've been otherwise occupied since the birth of my son in March (who I am bouncing in his bouncy seat with my foot as I type this message :-), so I haven't been following the forums here as much as I used to.

There seems to be quite a delay with the release of the 7.3.3 version of the server. Might they be holding it up so its release coincides with the release of new hardware? I seem to recall that this happened with 7.0 and the release of the Duet, and 7.2 (??) with the Boom.

I probably won't be in the market for any of the new devices, but the gadget geek in me would be anxious to see what they are all about.

snarlydwarf
2009-06-02, 21:37
There seems to be quite a delay with the release of the 7.3.3 version of the server. Might they be holding it up so its release coincides with the release of new hardware? I seem to recall that this happened with 7.0 and the release of the Duet, and 7.2 (??) with the Boom.

No, I think the delay on 7.3.3 is SBC firmware stability. They've done a ton of work trying to iron out connectivity problems some people are having, but there's a whole thread on "this is better/no, it still sucks" type posts for qa to figure out.

TiredLegs
2009-06-03, 11:04
I hope the poster of this info on the Sonos forum, walera, realizes that he has violated the confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement that Logitech had him sign as a condition of participation in the focus group. (Hint, hint, if I were Logitech, I'd go after the guy and smack him with legal fees.)

funkstar
2009-06-04, 02:57
I hope the poster of this info on the Sonos forum, walera, realizes that he has violated the confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement that Logitech had him sign as a condition of participation in the focus group. (Hint, hint, if I were Logitech, I'd go after the guy and smack him with legal fees.)
That is assuming they made him sign a NDA in the first place. You don't always have to do this for focus groups.

Also, what is included in a focus group is not necesarily what will be produced. After all, they might not have gone down well.

TiredLegs
2009-06-05, 03:04
That is assuming they made him sign a NDA in the first place. You don't always have to do this for focus groups.
I work for a company that occasionally does focus groups, and I have watched dozens of them over the years. Even moderated a couple myself. Never seen one involving unreleased products that did not require the participants to sign an NDA.

DoomWolf
2009-06-05, 03:22
I work for a company that occasionally does focus groups, and I have watched dozens of them over the years. Even moderated a couple myself. Never seen one involving unreleased products that did not require the participants to sign an NDA.

I've been in various focus groups for the car industry. I got to see the Mazda CX-7, Audi A5 (all expenses paid trip to Berlin for that one) and Vauxhall Insignia (the only one where we didn't know which car manufacturer it was for) long before they were on sale and never had to sign any NDA. They were of course very strict about making sure no-one had any photographic or recording equipment with them when they saw the cars or discussed them.

sander
2009-06-06, 16:10
I think a chumby style boom box would be a nice addition, but I would say they need to do a lot of work on the Squeezeplay software.

Goodsounds
2009-06-06, 16:55
.. if I were Logitech, I'd go after the guy and smack him with legal fees.)

Very, very unlikely. Unless I'm missing something, there would be nothing to be gained by doing so.