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MrSinatra
2009-04-18, 13:55
here is a list of music services, i want to know which ones are free, which cost money, or which are partially free? please let me know if i missed any:

Amazon CD store (is this only for buying a CD?)
Classical.com
Deezer (europe only?)
Last.fm Audioscrobbler
Last.fm Radio
Live music archive
Live365
Mediafly
MP3Tunes music locker
MusicIP
Napster
Pandora
RadioIO (SN only?)
RadioTime
Rhapsody
Sirius (pretty sure this is pay only)
Slacker

where is shoutcast? did i miss any?

thx!

toby10
2009-04-18, 14:34
Completely Free Services, No Membership Required, come preloaded on server menu (SC or SN):
RadioIO + 61 stations
Sky.FM + 40 stations
Live Music Archive
DI.fm (Digitally Imported) 52 stations
BBC (not all streams supported outside of UK)
ShoutCast 27,000 streams
SomaFM + 14 stations

Note: + = additional services offered for a paid membership

Streaming Services with MULTIPLE stream stations, preloaded on server menu with RadioTime free account:
1.FM 38 stations
181.FM 56 stations
1Club 70 stations
.977 FM 11 stations
Got Radio 48 stations
Yahoo! Radio / CBS Radio 300 stations
……and others

Completely Free Services, but Membership Required:
RadioTime thousands of streams
Last.fm
MediaFly

Paid Subscription Services:
Live365 *
Classical.com (30)
Napster * (30)
Pandora *
Rhapsody (30)
Sirius (30)
Slacker *

Note: * = offers free limited services with a free membership
Note: (30) = free 30 day trial of full services

MP3Tunes with 60 day free trial. (upload your own mp3 library for online access, no computer needed to play these files with a SqueezeBox hardware player)

MrSinatra
2009-04-18, 14:39
awesome, thx a lot!

maybe i should try to put this info on the wiki?

toby10
2009-04-18, 14:44
awesome, thx a lot!

maybe i should try to put this info on the wiki?

Well, I didn't copyright it, so have at it. :)

May want to wait a couple days, see if others have corrections/additions/deletions.

Many stream types are difficult to categorize as they could fall into several categories. That was my best effort from a post I did in another forum as a stream type "summary". Maybe others will have better category and grouping suggestions for the Wiki. :)

Mark Miksis
2009-04-18, 15:41
maybe i should try to put this info on the wiki?

Please do! This information has been lacking for quite a while. Depending on how you format it, it would be useful to create columns or sections for additional information (even if you leave them blank for future contributors) for items such as:
- Which players are supported (both HW and SW players)
- List any geographic restrictions
- Price
- Limitations of free vs paid service (ie. ad supported)

Philip Meyer
2009-04-19, 14:51
>maybe i should try to put this info on the wiki?
I think that's a good idea.

It may also be worth including a separate section for third-party plugins that provide access to other services? There's plenty of others (AlienBBC/BBC iPlayer, alternative Last.fm provider, Magnatune, RadioFeeds UK & Ireland, SeeqPod (I think this is a dead music service now), and probably others that I haven't tried before).

Phil

86atc250r
2009-04-19, 17:51
FWIW, I'd lump Pandora more into the "completely free but membership required" category.

Their paid service seems more geared toward web listeners and those using mobile devices than squeezeboxes. I personally use their free service all the time and have found it far from "limited" & at this point, don't see any advantages to using their paid service with a squeezebox.

I'd probably say the same for Slacker as well.

Neither of those are a paid subscription service like, say, Rhapsody or Sirius is.

For that matter - probably live365 as well, although I haven't used them much so I can't say for certain. For whatever reason, it seems they fall under "internet radio" instead of music services. Probably because they operate more like traditional radio than the customized service Pandora offers.

Nonreality
2009-04-19, 19:46
Completely Free Services, No Membership Required, come preloaded on server menu (SC or SN):
RadioIO + 61 stations
Sky.FM + 40 stations
Live Music Archive
DI.fm (Digitally Imported) 52 stations
BBC (not all streams supported outside of UK)
ShoutCast 27,000 streams
SomaFM + 14 stations

Note: + = additional services offered for a paid membership

Streaming Services with MULTIPLE stream stations, preloaded on server menu with RadioTime free account:
1.FM 38 stations
181.FM 56 stations
1Club 70 stations
.977 FM 11 stations
Got Radio 48 stations
Yahoo! Radio / CBS Radio 300 stations
……and others

Completely Free Services, but Membership Required:
RadioTime thousands of streams
Last.fm
MediaFly

Paid Subscription Services:
Live365 *
Classical.com (30)
Napster * (30)
Pandora *
Rhapsody (30)
Sirius (30)
Slacker *

Note: * = offers free limited services with a free membership
Note: (30) = free 30 day trial of full services

MP3Tunes with 60 day free trial. (upload your own mp3 library for online access, no computer needed to play these files with a SqueezeBox hardware player)
Toby is awesome, he seems to know way more than he should. The free version of Pandora doesn't seem to be any different than the paid version for us at the present time. For the Itouch and Iphone crowd it seems to put up an add on their screens and cause a 10 sec delay between songs for now. That's from my son who told me about it. He is 16 so a 3 sec delay could feel like 20.

toby10
2009-04-20, 04:21
FWIW, I'd lump Pandora more into the "completely free but membership required" category.........

Yeah, that's the problem with trying to "categorize" these streams. Many fall into multiple possible categories.

Ex: ShoutCast and Live365 offer basically the same thing operating as generic "portals" to most any Internet Radio stream. If you compare their stream offerings they are almost identical.
But then Live365 throws in a required "membership" (free & paid) making it eligible for a couple different category descriptions.

That's why I think getting feedback like yours will help better organize it for the Wiki entry that MrSinatra is working on. :)

toby10
2009-04-20, 04:22
Toby is awesome, he seems to know way more than he should. The free version of Pandora doesn't seem to be any different than the paid version for us at the present time. For the Itouch and Iphone crowd it seems to put up an add on their screens and cause a 10 sec delay between songs for now. That's from my son who told me about it. He is 16 so a 3 sec delay could feel like 20.

Isn't there a skip limit on the free Pandora service?

andyg
2009-04-20, 04:50
Isn't there a skip limit on the free Pandora service?

Both free and paid Pandora have a 6/hour skip limit.

toby10
2009-04-20, 08:20
Both free and paid Pandora have a 6/hour skip limit.

Thanks Andy. I assumed a skip limit was for free Pandora accounts only.

andyg
2009-04-20, 08:23
Slacker has no skip limit with a paid account, their accounts are also more expensive.

MrSinatra
2009-04-20, 09:58
Andy,

on this page:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Main_Page

under "Services" can you please add a link to a blank page called "Music Services" that i will try to edit to reflect the info in this thread?

thanks.

andyg
2009-04-20, 10:07
It's a wiki, why don't you do it? :)

MrSinatra
2009-04-20, 10:10
because you all at slim don't allow users to. :(

MrSinatra
2009-04-20, 10:12
i take that back... i see an edit button now, i guess i had to "authenticate" my email addy first.

andyg
2009-04-20, 10:12
Oh, the front page is protected, right. I've added a link.

MrSinatra
2009-04-20, 10:16
thanks, i see it. i put one at the same time, so i'll delete yours.

i guess the "protection" is there until a user authenticates their email addy for their wiki logon?

MrSinatra
2009-04-20, 10:47
ok, so we have a link right off the main page:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Main_Page

and it goes to here:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/3rd_Party_Music_Services

thats great. i did a (horrible) job of a first stab attempt of categorizing this information. so i put a lot of what Toby10 said there.

i will continue to work on it over the next few days, but for now i invite all the people in this thread to mercilessly edit it.

Philip Meyer
2009-04-20, 16:39
I added a section listing music services provided by third-party plugins. There's probably a few others, but I've only listed the ones that I've used.

I wonder if it would be best to add them to the main list of services?

Philip Meyer
2009-04-20, 16:43
>I wonder if it would be best to add them to the main list of services?
>
I converted the main list to a table, and added sortable columns for cost and subscription requirements. Think this may be a better format than sections.

I have left third-party plugins as a separate section, but think that they could also be added to the main list, with a column to indicate whether the service is built-in or via a plugin.

Could add a hyperlink for each service name to take you off to a page for more info, such as where to download, setup, configure etc.

greg from winnipeg
2009-04-20, 17:16
Great work everyone, I find the list very useful.

Question: is it possible to also include the countries for which each service is available?

Nonreality
2009-04-20, 20:27
Great work everyone, I find the list very useful.

Question: is it possible to also include the countries for which each service is available?

Good thinking.

MrSinatra
2009-04-20, 23:09
i have made some more edits and so on... i expended on Phils chart which is totally what i had in mind, so thats a great thing.

i need to add that i currently use NONE of these portals or plugins, not one of them. i am interested in doing this wiki page to find out which ones i want to use. so i need the communities help to flesh the thing out. (i do listen to shoutcast URLs directly, but not via a central portal or site)

i think for now the chart should list those services which come with SC. i am unsure what services come under the guise of the non-optional "internet radio" SC plugin.

i want the wiki to be very precise... for instance, if a service has both free and paid, i want to know what "free" means, and what "paid" means... ie. what do i get for paying?

also, is DI.fm a 3rd party plugin?

Philip Meyer
2009-04-21, 00:50
>i think for now the chart should list those services which come with
>SC. i am unsure what services come under the guise of the non-optional
>"internet radio" SC plugin.

I think that the things you are seeing under "internet radio" are a really confusing mashup of some radio providers.

"Staff Picks" are radio stations recommended by Logitech staff (part of "Internet Radio" plugin).

"Local", "Music", "World", "RadioTime Presets" all come from the RadioTime plugin. These used to be gathered under one less confusing "RadioTime" menu entry, but were expanded out, probably because of some licencing arrangement.

Not sure about "More Radio...". Maybe this comes from the mandatory "Internet Radio" plugin too? I think the idea was that any other internet radio station providers would be put under that, and indeed it's here you can find Live365 and SHOUTcast. However, other providers don't appear in there, eg. RadioIO is at the top level too (maybe some licencing arrangement again).

"Radio Feeds UK & Ireland" appears within "More Radio..." and directly under Internet Radio menu (maybe because I have a plugin for it, and because the xml feed has subsequently also been added to "More Radio"?)

Philip Meyer
2009-04-21, 00:52
I added some ideas/notes to the discussion page for the wiki page we've been editing. Might be easier to manage that way.

toby10
2009-04-21, 03:08
>............
I have left third-party plugins as a separate section, but think that they could also be added to the main list, with a column to indicate whether the service is built-in or via a plugin......

And taking "built in" one step further, should we add what SC7 Internet Radio menus and stream providers will work as SC7 built in's? i.e. No SN account required?

I'd always suggest obtaining a SN account for the added streams and services, but there are quite a few streams within the SC7 built in menu that will work (literally) out of the box.

Out of the Box SC7 Internet Radio Streaming (no SN required)
With a few exceptions, all of the SC7 Internet Radio menu’s and sub-menu’s (and their associated stream contents) work fine without a SN account registered on SC7.

These exceptions are:

SC7 > Internet Radio >

> Local
Works without SN but is only a general IP guess of your location, a RadioTime account can be much more geographically specific.
RadioTime requires a SN account.

> Music > Internet Only > RadioIO
All 61 RadioIO streams are available but at only 64k.
With a SN account these 61 streams are available at 128k via SC7 > Internet Radio > RadioIO

> Sirius
Won’t work. Requires SN account (as do all subscription services)

> RadioIO
Won’t work. Requires SN account (these are the 128k streams)

> More Radio > Live365 and ShoutCast
Won’t work. Both require a SN account

Obviously nothing within SC7 > Music Services will function without a SN account.

toby10
2009-04-21, 10:59
I have no clue how to edit the Wiki (and I'd probably break it anyway) so I'll post some info on here, others can add/edit to the Wiki.

MrSinatra, I've made the following assumptions on your Wiki page and additions based on this assumption below:
"Built In to SC and SN" = shows up on the menus without a 3rd party plugin
"Login" = username and PW must be entered onto SN to use that service

WIKI CHART:
Classical.com, SC = Y
Last.fm, SC = Y, SN = Y
Live Music Archive, SC = Y, SN = Y
Live365, Free (paid = commercial free, premium streams), SC = Y
MediaFly, SC = Y
MP3Tunes, Login = Y, SC = Y
Napster, SC = Y
Pandora, Free (may have commercials in future), SC = Y
RadioIO, Free (paid = commercial free, higher bitrate streams?), SC = Y
RadioTime, Free, Login = Y, SC = Y, SN = Y (but no specific Menu item in Browse)
Rhapsody, SC = Y,
ShoutCast, Free, Login = N, SC = Y
Sirius, Login = Y
Slacker, Free (with song skip limit, paid = no skip limit), SC = Y

Also free, but....section
SomaFM and Sky.FM, Free = 96k with commercials, Paid = higher bitrate and commercial free

3rd party section
RadioFeeds UK, is this a 3rd party plugin? I do not recall adding this to SC7 (but then, I am getting senile)


To my knowledge, the above is accurate.

MrSinatra
2009-04-21, 11:03
you guys are starting to talk over my head... :) i tried to answer some points on the wiki discussion page, but i'm more comfortable in the forum honestly.

anyway, its hard for me to know where to go here b/c i have such little exp with these services. Toby, can you add to the wiki in some kind of methodical way what you are saying above? basically, it would be good to know:

1. what works on SC out of the box
2. what won't work on SC until you do SN first
3. what will only work on SN

i think we already know more or less that anything not offered by SN won't work on it, unless we're talking about specific shoutcast URLs.

are those the only possibilities above?

i tried signing up for Last.fm last night. i am Mr1Sinatra on there. i downloaded the app it had too. and honestly i don't get it. it seemed to import my winamp listening history, not my ML. and i seemed to need the app for it to do its thing. is that something we should remark on?

so anyway, will Last.fm only work with SC once i tell SN my login info?

MrSinatra
2009-04-21, 11:06
I have no clue how to edit the Wiki (and I'd probably break it anyway) so I'll post some info on here, others can add/edit to the Wiki.

its actually really easy. just create an account, login in, and click edit. if you have the screen space, have one window open with the article, and another open having clicked "edit." its very hard to break it. i think you'll find it self explanatory, and your direct contributions would be great.

Philip Meyer
2009-04-21, 12:32
>i tried signing up for Last.fm last night. i am Mr1Sinatra on there.
I tried searching for a user with that name, and you don't seem to exist.

>i downloaded the app it had too. and honestly i don't get it.
>
You should be able to play "radio stations" within the web browser. Find an artist, genre, group, etc, and click play, and it will play similar music for that item. In fact, last.fm doesn't really have "genre" it has "tags", which can be anything to group music. There are globaltags and user-defined tags, so you can add your own.

However, looking just a minute ago, it seems like there's a problem on the web site, as I'm not seeing the play control.

The Last.fm app allows you to play music from a windows app on your machine, without needing to browse the web site. The older last.fm app was better - a small play window with options to skip, love, ban the current track. The latest app is more like the last.fm web site in an application window, with oversized toolbar icons. I don't use it, because I use SqueezeCenter to play Last.fm instead.

>so anyway, will Last.fm only work with SC once i tell SN my login info?
Yes, you need to enter Last.fm account in order to play Last.fm and also to scrobble to that account. You can sign up for a free account.

In the SqueezeCenter official plugin, you have to register your Last.fm account details via SqueezeNetwork, even if you will always use it via your local SC and have no intention to use SN (this is true of most SC plugins).

toby10
2009-04-21, 13:22
you guys are starting to talk over my head... :) i tried to answer some points on the wiki discussion page, but i'm more comfortable in the forum honestly.

anyway, its hard for me to know where to go here b/c i have such little exp with these services. Toby, can you add to the wiki in some kind of methodical way what you are saying above? basically, it would be good to know:

1. what works on SC out of the box
2. what won't work on SC until you do SN first
3. what will only work on SN

i think we already know more or less that anything not offered by SN won't work on it, unless we're talking about specific shoutcast URLs.

are those the only possibilities above?

i tried signing up for Last.fm last night. i am Mr1Sinatra on there. i downloaded the app it had too. and honestly i don't get it. it seemed to import my winamp listening history, not my ML. and i seemed to need the app for it to do its thing. is that something we should remark on?

so anyway, will Last.fm only work with SC once i tell SN my login info?

Basically, what I listed as the "exceptions" are (to my knowledge) the only things within the SC7 > Internet Radio menu and sub-menu's that DO NOT work out of the box without a SN account.

It's very easy to see/test what works on SC without a SN account, just remove your SN login info from SC, then poke around the SC7 > Internet Radio menu's. :)

I do not know of anything that *only* works on SN.

Last.fm will work fine on both SC and SN with all settings and saved stations. SC uses SN in the background for any/all subscription services (save SC plugins) so everything the subscription service offers on SC is also on SN, and vice versa. i.e. If you have a saved Last.fm personal station on SC that same personal station will also appear on the SN Last.fm menu's, and again vice versa.

See, I told you it gets tough to categorize/explain it all. :)

Philip Meyer
2009-04-21, 13:47
>If you have a saved Last.fm personal station on SC that same personal station will also
>appear on the SN Last.fm menu's, and again vice versa.
Unfortunately, I don't believe that is true :-(

You can search for an artist in the Last.fm SC plugin, and from the Last.fm artist page, you can "Add to Favorites". That adds the last.fm "Play Similar Artists Radio" link to your SC favorites, but that won't appear in the SN Last.fm menu :-(

Setting up favorite stations was much better in the third-party plugin that James wrote. You could configure a list of Last.fm favourites, and they would be listed within the Last.fm plugin menu.

Phil

toby10
2009-04-21, 14:04
>If you have a saved Last.fm personal station on SC that same personal station will also
>appear on the SN Last.fm menu's, and again vice versa.
Unfortunately, I don't believe that is true :-(

You can search for an artist in the Last.fm SC plugin, and from the Last.fm artist page, you can "Add to Favorites". That adds the last.fm "Play Similar Artists Radio" link to your SC favorites, but that won't appear in the SN Last.fm menu :-(

Setting up favorite stations was much better in the third-party plugin that James wrote. You could configure a list of Last.fm favourites, and they would be listed within the Last.fm plugin menu.

Phil

It's good you are catching these details. :)

Please keep adding or correcting this info as there is so much to keep straight on these services.

toby10
2009-04-21, 14:08
MrSinatra: Thinking about this further, maybe if you added a column to your chart of services to insert a simple "bullet" for each service that requires a SN account. I'll provide the list if you provide the column and bullets. :)

Also, is MusicIP related to streaming radio stations? I don't use it but I thought it was more for gathering additional info about artists etc.. from music files.

Philip Meyer
2009-04-21, 15:52
>Also, is MusicIP related to streaming radio stations? I don't use it
>but I thought it was more for gathering additional info about artists
>etc.. from music files.
>
No, it is not a streaming radio station provider. That's why I queried why it was in the list.

It is primarily used for creating intelligent random song mixes (picks songs that sound similar to the seed song(s)/album/artist/genre selected). It can also be a source for getting local music into SC, much the same as iTunes (I wouldn't recommend it though).

So, it has nothing to do with aggregating/streaming radio stations, but it is a service provider (local SC only, not SN).

toby10
2009-04-22, 06:46
I have no clue how to edit the Wiki (and I'd probably break it anyway) so I'll post some info on here, others can add/edit to the Wiki..........

I told you I'd break it.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62624

But do you listen to me? NO! :) lol

nicketynick
2009-05-10, 18:54
Hey guys,
Great work so far - this could be very useful. I'm particularly interested in what I can get in Canada (without any workarounds.....). Especially if I can get something Pandora-like.... not sure how I've done it, but Pandora is playing right now, although I'm not sure I can change the 'station' without losing it.... I think the connection has stuck since one time when I tried one of the workaround methods - not sure how long it will last.... here I am off-topic already....

nathan_h
2014-05-07, 07:02
Is there a better list these days?

toby10
2014-05-07, 12:17
Is there a better list these days?

List is still mostly relevant. Off the top of my head......

REMOVE:
Last.fm
Mediafly
MP3Tunes
Yahoo / AOL
Radio Time (just name change, now is TuneIn)

ADD:
Spotify

nathan_h
2014-05-07, 16:13
List is still mostly relevant. Off the top of my head......

REMOVE:
Last.fm
Mediafly
MP3Tunes
Yahoo / AOL
Radio Time (just name change, now is TuneIn)

ADD:
Spotify

Thanks!