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dwc
2009-02-24, 15:09
Saw this on slashdot today:

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9634061300.html

Sizing masters: I wonder if it's up to the task with regards to resources.

512MB RAM
512MB flash

This plus the external (large) USB hard drive of my choice and I may be able to finally get rid of the noisy 90's laptop I'm currently using. [initial opinion: Looks well cheaper than the average expensive NAS device which I do not think has the horsepower to effectively run SC.]

_Dan

andyg
2009-02-24, 15:22
I bet it will make a great SC server.

FredFredrickson
2009-02-24, 15:51
What do you guys think of this?

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9634061300.html

$100 linux wall wart with USB for external attached storage. Squeezecenter anybody??

FredFredrickson
2009-02-24, 15:59
dang, beat me to it. Posted in the linux forum.

I would like to hear how this works out if you try it, I might get it myself. Found any links to actually buy it yet? I can't.

andyg
2009-02-24, 16:04
I ordered one just to play with. Won't be available until the end of March though. Order page: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-22-sheevaplug-dev-kit.aspx

maggior
2009-02-24, 20:35
That would be pretty darn cool. Imagine a logitech branded version of it that came with your squeezebox - just add your USB drive for storage.

mherger
2009-02-24, 20:58
> That would be pretty darn cool.

Another one which popped up for USD79 (pre-order):
http://www.pogoplug.com/

Michael

slimpy
2009-02-25, 02:45
dwc was a bit quicker.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60617

-s.

slimpy
2009-02-25, 02:54
> That would be pretty darn cool.

Another one which popped up for USD79 (pre-order):
http://www.pogoplug.com/

Michael
The pogoplug is actually based on marvell's hardware/software development kit.

-s.

Mark Lanctot
2009-02-25, 07:10
I was going to say the main stumbling block is that SC has not been ported to ARM devices, but aren't a few of the NASes (that you can install SC on) based on ARM?

Mark Lanctot
2009-02-25, 07:17
Threads merged.

reverber
2009-02-25, 07:40
I was going to say the main stumbling block is that SC has not been ported to ARM devices, but aren't a few of the NASes (that you can install SC on) based on ARM?

Won't SC run on any of the dozen or so platforms that Linux has been ported to?

Cody

bpa
2009-02-25, 07:46
On ARM, Slimserver 6.3 was first ported to Linksys NSLU2 with 133Mhz (later 266Mhz) and 32MB RAM.

Most latest generation NAS use a Marvell ARM chipset typically around 400-500MHz but RAM is usually 128 or 256 Mbytes.

Mark Lanctot
2009-02-25, 07:47
Won't SC run on any of the dozen or so platforms that Linux has been ported to?

SC obviously works on x86 and on SPARC (I think that's Infrant ReadyNAS) but note that Infrant/Netgear has SC specially compiled for SPARC.

As for PowerPC and ARM, I believe the main stumbling block is the perl CPAN modules. Some of them have to be specially made for the architecture they are to run on. So SC has to omit certain modules or use different ones depending on the architecture.

I'm not the expert on this but there are posts in the Linux/Unix forum regarding problems installing SC on PowerPC and ARM architectures, mainly due to perl CPAN module incompatibilities.

andyg
2009-02-25, 07:47
We might start shipping ARM binaries with SC, we'll see.

bpa
2009-02-25, 08:08
There are a lot of variation in ARM processors. For audio decoding/encoding the ones with a FPU (floating point unit) are the best. The core in the Wall Wart doesn't look like it has a FPU so transcoding may not be realistic.

Without an FPU, if the decoding/encoding apps does not have a fixed point implementation, realtime encoding/decoding is not possible. As an example, to get AlienBBC to work (i.e. mplayer decode RealAudio) on NAS such as DS-106, it was necessary to patch in a fixed point implementation of RealAudio decode. FlipFlip's SSODS includes mplayer but core and library differences make it necessary to have 4 versions of mplayer all for ARM processors

st2000
2009-02-25, 08:13
Mark Lanctot wrote:
> reverber;400569 Wrote:
>> Won't SC run on any of the dozen or so platforms that Linux has been
>> ported to?
>
> SC obviously works on x86 and on SPARC (I think that's Infrant
> ReadyNAS) but note that Infrant/Netgear has SC specially compiled for
> SPARC.
>
> As for PowerPC and ARM, I believe the main stumbling block is the perl
> CPAN modules. Some of them have to be specially made for the
> architecture they are to run on. So SC has to omit certain modules or
> use different ones depending on the architecture.
>
> I'm not the expert on this but there are posts in the Linux/Unix forum
> regarding problems installing SC on PowerPC and ARM architectures,
> mainly due to perl CPAN module incompatibilities.

Interesting - where exactly are these posts / discussions? I would be
interested in finding out the difficulties and work arounds. I'd like to
port SC to the PCH / NMT box. Porting PERL would be my biggest concern
(next would probably be mysql). Think about it - it's not as open of a
platform - but for about double your money you get it all** (linux &
HDMI video) in one box.

**Note, no one has yet come up with a PCH application that can *play*
music like a squeezebox (i.e. don't go out to buy one thinking this is
possible).

....thanks

bpa
2009-02-25, 08:52
For PCH / NMT it might worth checking out optware - a sort of compatibility layer which has been ported to many different NASs ( http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Platforms ) - unlike a distro it doesn't change base firmware. Once ported then it will be able to install and run many different packages. Optware has many apps packaged in the ipkg format including SqueezeCenter.

signor_rossi
2009-02-25, 09:19
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/pegatron-and-freescale-team-for-low-power-ultra-cheap-netbooks/

The fanless very small and very low power Nettop and the fact that Linux-on-ARM gets some resources are promising...

Mark Lanctot
2009-02-25, 09:22
Interesting - where exactly are these posts / discussions? I would be
interested in finding out the difficulties and work arounds.

PowerPC threads:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60109
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59203
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55124

ARM threads:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57224
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46005
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60318

Just search for "PowerPC" or "ARM", there are a lot more threads than these.

DaveWr
2009-02-25, 10:04
We might start shipping ARM binaries with SC, we'll see.

Is this a hint of things to come.......

Dave

signor_rossi
2009-02-25, 11:15
Is this a hint of things to come.......

Dave

In theory they should already have the knowledge to make a little computer running Squeezecenter with a small touch screen included you can attach USB or network drives to, a Controller evolution.

jo-wie
2009-02-25, 23:56
In theory they should already have the knowledge to make a little computer running Squeezecenter with a small touch screen included you can attach USB or network drives to, a Controller evolution.

Will there be something interesting announced at the CeBit fair? Only wild guess =D

jbraveman
2009-03-03, 09:00
Why can't the squeezebox be beefed up so that it can run squeezecenter?
This thing looks cool.

signor_rossi
2009-03-05, 02:16
Why can't the squeezebox be beefed up so that it can run squeezecenter?
This thing looks cool.

Building such a machine isn't the problem, it's the revenue outlook from it and the support effort that it may need. Hopefully the preconditions will change favourably soon (or already have?).
This is only a wild speculation from my side, though.

amey01
2009-03-06, 16:50
Why can't the squeezebox be beefed up so that it can run squeezecenter?
This thing looks cool.

This is what I've always wondered. I've asked the same question and didn't get a response.

Anyway - I think it's a brilliant model - why a stupid computer when the database could be stored inside the Squeezebox? The Squeezebox could then be pointed to any NAS or share on the network.

We always talk about SD bundling a NAS with their device, or running SC on a NAS - surely this is the most obvious solution?

aubuti
2009-03-07, 07:39
This is what I've always wondered. I've asked the same question and didn't get a response.

Anyway - I think it's a brilliant model - why a stupid computer when the database could be stored inside the Squeezebox? The Squeezebox could then be pointed to any NAS or share on the network.

We always talk about SD bundling a NAS with their device, or running SC on a NAS - surely this is the most obvious solution?
"Beefed up" means a complete reworking of the SB design. The current hardware platform is nearly maxed out with only the SB firmware. There's no room in there for a music database, even just the metadata Sure, there could be a new product, but it wouldn't be based on the current hardware.

Bundling a NAS? Maybe you missed the SB3 (now SB Classic) + Infrant NAS special deal that was running for a year or so. My impression was that it actually didn't go so well.

My intention isn't to say "it can't be done" or to throw cold water on the ideas, but rather just to point out that these ideas have been discussed and debated to death in these forums, at least for the 3+ years I have been on them. On the other hand, all of the recent products that SD/Logi has introduced (SB Receiver, SB Controller, Boom) have been foreshadowed by similar requests/debates etc. on the forums.....

Folsom
2009-03-27, 11:36
I wonder how hard it would be to run both squeezecenter and softsqueeze for car use. The system would have a powered usb hub with a usb sound card and hard drive, and controlled by a ipod touch. Wifi would either be usb or a powered router. The HW side is easy, the schematic shows where 5V comes from the AC, and there are good 12V-5V switchers from TI to power all the units.

snarlydwarf
2009-03-27, 11:41
I wonder how hard it would be to run both squeezecenter and softsqueeze for car use. The system would have a powered usb hub with a usb sound card and hard drive, and controlled by a ipod touch. Wifi would either be usb or a powered router. The HW side is easy, the schematic shows where 5V comes from the AC, and there are good 12V-5V switchers from TI to power all the units.

It's been done, and looks slick.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31248

iPhone
2009-03-27, 11:51
I wonder how hard it would be to run both squeezecenter and softsqueeze for car use. The system would have a powered usb hub with a usb sound card and hard drive, and controlled by a ipod touch. Wifi would either be usb or a powered router. The HW side is easy, the schematic shows where 5V comes from the AC, and there are good 12V-5V switchers from TI to power all the units.

Hello and Welcome to the Forum.

That idea would work, be seems a bit over done to me. All one needs is a laptop and SB3, inverter, and an In-Dash Head Unit that takes a pre-amp or Aux In. Or try the other solution I am using in our Thunderbird, which is a Mac Mini with a Duet.

Don't need the sound card, softsqueeze, or all the other hardware parts. Of course most of this depends on what ones starting point is and if one has a Head Unit what can accept a line level input.

Folsom
2009-03-27, 13:28
Hello and Welcome to the Forum.

That idea would work, be seems a bit over done to me. All one needs is a laptop and SB3, inverter, and an In-Dash Head Unit that takes a pre-amp or Aux In. Or try the other solution I am using in our Thunderbird, which is a Mac Mini with a Duet.

Don't need the sound card, softsqueeze, or all the other hardware parts. Of course most of this depends on what ones starting point is and if one has a Head Unit what can accept a line level input.

I was trying to avoid using a laptop since I wanted a small controller. I looked at the duet, but then I would still need a separate receiver and storage; I thought I could combine the two and also have more functionality with the ipod vs the duet controller.

I previously was using a dell axim along with an asus WL-HDD, but the software on the axim was lacking, and I was getting interference. I like having all my music available in the car (used to use an empeg) and I was looking at better alternatives.

Folsom

andyg
2009-04-06, 12:53
Hi guys, I got my development version of the SheevaPlug today. After some preliminary tests, it looks like it will be a great SC server, capable of full transcoding and SC runs great on it!

tap1936
2009-04-07, 10:10
Andy,
I am trying to install it on my plug as well and had a couple of questions;
1. Are you installing it in the 512MB inbuilt memory, is it enough?
2. I am having trouble compiling the perl modules, I assume I have to download the CPAN version and compile everything?
Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks
TP

andyg
2009-04-07, 10:17
I was copying it into flash, there is enough room. We have alpha-quality ARM binary versions of SC, and it also includes our own build of Perl that is more optimized. These aren't available externally yet, but I will see about making them available. Note that this is from the 7.4 noweb-sqlite branch and does not yet have a functional scanner.

sjschaff
2009-04-12, 12:12
I've been interested in a NAS for my Transporter and Squeezebox/Duet environment for quite awhile (two different audio systems) to reduce the footprint and complexity of managing files and making things a bit simpler. However it appears that previous NAS boxes were simply too slow and costly. The Shivaplug appears to fit the bill on both performance and cost.

Do you feel that this platform will do the job? And, for a Linux newbie, will it be reasonably simple to install Squeezecenter and get it running properly?

I'm game but concerned at this point. I'd thought about using a headless PC for this but that's a more costly solution and probably overkill and not nearly as "green" a solution.

325xi
2009-05-01, 12:04
Is there any progress on that?
Given the power, size and energy consumption of the device it looks extremely appealing alternative to running PC 24/7.

Pneumonic
2009-05-03, 13:59
Bump for a progress report also ................

JeffHart
2009-05-04, 09:43
Quick question on the plug computer - does it support powerline ethernet? It seems to have a standard ethernet jack. Might make it to large, but would seem like a logical capability.

Cheers,
Jeff

325xi
2009-05-04, 21:41
C'mon people, you should be already selling this SqueezePlug by now, or you're waiting for market to become oversaturated in this area too?


:)

Sonic
2009-05-21, 15:45
Bump....

Alrighty, hows about an update. Progress...news...still working on a release candidate...themonotonousthudofheadspoundingagains tadesk...something...

anything...???

andyg
2009-05-21, 15:47
Sorry this is a low priority. Anyone want to help?

tap1936
2009-05-22, 06:55
Andy,
I can try. You had mentioned that you have an optimized version of Perl for the ARM platform? Anyplace I can get that?
Thanks

palmito
2009-05-22, 07:20
I can help too (at least try to help), not that knowledgeable, but very motivated!

andyg
2009-05-22, 07:31
OK we will get our ARM build published as a nightly, and we can see what improvements need to be made.

Sonic
2009-05-23, 04:22
Thanks for the updates and the effort to get this going.

Has anyone used the Sheeva to stream a NAS (instead of USB), and if so how does it perform?

bebop
2009-05-23, 07:55
I just cant wait for SC to run on a platform like this, low power = always on and available :-) then I can give the boot to the old laptop where SC currently resides and forget all about struggeling with WOL and other strange things.

There is loads of info on the Sheeva/Pogoplug here at the openplug forum :

http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum

Regards

bebop
2009-05-26, 12:43
capable of full transcoding and SC runs great on it!
I would love to help out with developing on this, but before I order one I need to get the transcoding clarified, I have as an absolute minimum that it should be able to transcode flac -> 320Kbs MP3 with lame, is this possible ?
As far as I know the sheeva has no FPU, so this is a though job for it or ?

Regards

boerner
2009-05-26, 13:39
I am anxious to help as well, but I need to get a hold of one the stupid things first :-) The Sheevaplug kits seem to be taking ages to get delivered according to posts on plugcomputer.org. Even the Pogoplugs are shipping in "1 to 2 weeks" according to the company's website.

I still don't see the ARM builds on the nightly page though...

boerner
2009-05-27, 11:44
Replying to myself, looks like QNAP just added a second NAS unit based on the same Kirkwood processor:

http://qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=122

I have got to get myself one of those...

or maybe just order the dev kit:

http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-21-openrd-client.aspx

SamS
2009-06-30, 21:08
Any updates to this?

I would really like a small, low-power-draw option to run SC. My trusty ReadyNAS NV is already powered up 24/7, and I really don't like keeping my desktop running SC 24/7 as well. Wastes a lot of juice.

bebop
2009-07-01, 06:41
If you follow this thread in the 3rd party hardware section, you can see that people are working on this, don't be confused about the Pogoplug/Sheevaplug name confusion, they are nearly identical and runs the same sw.
Slim devices Pogoplug thread :
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62273

Openplug Squeezecenter thread :

http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=415130473b221af0a7a8e92a2e077c ee&topic=446.0

Very interrested in this device myself, but I have not got hold on one yet.

andyg
2009-07-01, 06:51
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.4

The squeezecenter+perl-armv5te-poky-linux-gnueabi file will run on the Sheevaplug. This is a stripped-down version of SC though, and does not include the web UI, some transcoders, etc. We are working on fixing that.

This also includes our optimized build of Perl 5.10, you will need to run SC using that version of Perl, not any other version of Perl already installed.

SamS
2009-07-01, 07:17
Thanks for the links guys. Looks like I might wait a bit longer until the setup/installation is a bit more mapped out or "plug 'n play". I'm no developer or expert with command lines ;-)

In happier news, my Transporter arrives Friday :D

sjschaff
2009-07-01, 08:13
Thanks for the links guys. Looks like I might wait a bit longer until the setup/installation is a bit more mapped out or "plug 'n play". I'm no developer or expert with command lines ;-)

In happier news, my Transporter arrives Friday :D

Same here. What I think I see so far are the all the parts w/o any instruction manual.

Having a Pogoplug I can get into the little guy and see what's installed and the general lay of the land. And there seems to be a different packaging structure, at least it's not deb, based on what I find at the Openpogo repo site http://openpogo.com/repo/

And I've got no breadcrumbs to lay down in case I get lost and really screw things up. The folks at Pogoplug haven't provided a "factory reset".

So, I supposed I'll await docs before I try anything.

p.s. if anyone's got a good scheme to launch pogoplugfs on Linux after a wireless connection happens, let me know. I figure there must be something in Linux that flags a successful connection so I can use cron or something else to make the process as automagic as Windoze.

stuarty
2009-08-18, 07:12
There's a <a href="http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SheevaPlug_Installation_guide">wiki</a> page now with a guide to installing squeezecenter on the sheevaplug.

Has anyone tried it? Perhaps one of the earlier posters here is responsible for the wiki page?

sjschaff
2009-08-18, 12:49
Looks promising. But until I know how to ensure a way back, in case I run into problems, I'm not going to try this. Maybe, over time, we'll get some official support for this. Meanwhile, I'll use a Dell Mini 9 as my SqueezeCenter server. The carbon foot print it fairly low.

benmac
2009-08-24, 22:01
My SheevaPlug just doesn't have the horsepower.

I have a 8GB kingston USB stick attached (512MB was not enough BTW). Partitioned the stick 7GB OS + 1GB swap. Installed Debian per directions and then installed SheevaPlug version of SqueezeCenter. The system comes up cleanly but it is not particularly responsive.

I do have a large music collection but even some radio stations can no longer play. Running top against the SheevaPlug it is pretty apparent that the poor beast is maxed out. I can't believe how much MySQL activity is occuring, even at idle - what is all that for? I confirmed the MySQL continually spikes against my existing CentOS SqueezeServer installation as well.

All-in-all, a great effort on Squeeze's behalf but it falls just short of usable (iPeng makes it usable because it caches the artist DB - your webapp is far from usable here). I'll be keen to try it again once some optimizations are applied.

pfarrell
2009-08-24, 22:24
benmac wrote:
> My SheevaPlug just doesn't have the horsepower.
> I do have a large music collection but even some radio stations can no
> longer play. Running top against the SheevaPlug it is pretty apparent
> that the poor beast is maxed out. I can't believe how much MySQL
> activity is occuring, even at idle - what is all that for?

In short, I don't know.

I think the 7.4 or 7.5 release is supposed to replace MySql with
something less resource intensive. Back when the then slimserver moved
to MySql it was because the lighter package couldn't do some of the cool
things that were needed. But all active software gets better, so these
days, its believed that the lighter package (I think SqLite) can handle
the needs and not take so much memory, CPU, etc.

I don't know when it is scheduled to be released.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

benmac
2009-08-24, 22:43
Yeah - it's great to see the active development for platforms like the SheevaPlug and I'm going to persevere because I'd dearly like to retire my CentOS server but I right now it doesn't look promising. I'll be keen to update with the next release(s). BTW, if any SlimServer developers are watching this thread, the radio station that has become unresponsive is KUOW Seattle - I verified that the streams are still available on my CentOS-based SlimServer so it's either a lack of horsepower on the plug or SlimServer 7.3.3 has a bug.

mherger
2009-08-24, 23:21
> I do have a large music collection but even some radio stations can no
> longer play. Running top against the SheevaPlug it is pretty apparent
> that the poor beast is maxed out. I can't believe how much MySQL
> activity is occuring, even at idle - what is all that for?

Did you let SC finish the initial scan?

--

Michael

benmac
2009-08-25, 00:48
Yep - the initial scan took about 24 hours which wasn't bad at all compared to my previous efforts on Windows and CentOS platforms. Those scans took roughly the same time. It's not a small collection. I started playing with it an hour after the scan completed (cleanly). The SheevaPlug outperforms my ReadyNAS which was never happy running SlimServer.

BTW, increasing the radio station timeout setting doesn't help KUOW - it looks like other users have encountered this problem on other platforms: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=178992. On my system, it gets to about 80% rebuffering then declared that its failed.

And one final note - as per the wiki, all of this is running off an 8GB USB thumb drive rather than on the SheevaPlug itself. I'm sure that once a Squeezebox/Compact Database instance can be stored on the actual SheevaPlug performance will improve considerably. Hosting MySQL on the SheevaPlug rather than the USB drive alone would certainly make a sizable difference. Tweaking MySQL from the default settings and leaving it on the USB drive would also be beneficial. I'm sure the SheevaPlug will turn out to be a great platform for SlimServer - it's just not there yet. I bet it is already good enough for smaller (<50GB) music collections.

sjschaff
2009-08-25, 16:27
Nice 5 minute piece http://www.technowtv.com/?cat=9991945&subcat=4524034&video=275

raven22
2009-08-26, 08:26
I bought a Sheevaplug, but now i realize that it probably will not run the MusicIP server. I love musicip and sugarcube plugin.
Any change MusicIP server will run? Or can someone make it run?

aubuti
2009-08-26, 09:12
I bought a Sheevaplug, but now i realize that it probably will not run the MusicIP server. I love musicip and sugarcube plugin.
Any change MusicIP server will run? Or can someone make it run?
Afaik the only MusicIP builds for Linux are for x86 hardware -- I am pretty sure there is nothing for ARM or other processors with Linux. In addition, development of MusicIP seems to have stopped following the departure of key personnel.

raven22
2009-08-26, 09:23
Afaik the only MusicIP builds for Linux are for x86 hardware -- I am pretty sure there is nothing for ARM or other processors with Linux. In addition, development of MusicIP seems to have stopped following the departure of key personnel.

I checked their site and there is no arm build, but can't the x86 version be ported to arm by the community?

aubuti
2009-08-26, 09:28
I checked their site and there is no arm build, but can't the x86 version be ported to arm by the community?
I don't believe MusicIP is open source, and the community can't do anything without the source code.

raven22
2009-08-26, 09:39
I don't believe MusicIP is open source, and the community can't do anything without the source code.

that's a pity, now i have to choose between musicip and sheeva. i already sold my thinclient used as squeezecenter server and don't want to run a pc 24/7.

aubuti
2009-08-26, 09:49
I hear you. But the server doesn't have to be on 24/7 as long as (a) it supports WOL and (b) it supports ACPI suspend or hibernate. The SrvrPowerCtrl plugin is great for automatically suspending the server when all SBs are inactive for a user-specified period of time. If you like it will even switch them over to SqueezeNetwork before suspending the server. Given the interest in the Sheevaplug you could probably resell it without taking too big a hit.

raven22
2009-08-26, 09:58
I hear you. But the server doesn't have to be on 24/7 as long as (a) it supports WOL and (b) it supports ACPI suspend or hibernate. The SrvrPowerCtrl plugin is great for automatically suspending the server when all SBs are inactive for a user-specified period of time. If you like it will even switch them over to SqueezeNetwork before suspending the server. Given the interest in the Sheevaplug you could probably resell it without taking too big a hit.

Yes, i know about wol and srvrpowerctrl, but i like my server to be on 24/7 since it does more then just run squeezecenter. I can still cancel my sheeva order and go for the fit2PC but that is quite a bit more expensive.