PDA

View Full Version : The nature of the beast or wirelless tango or "this years channel"



Mnyb
2009-02-07, 03:23
Just a cautionary anecdote :

You are certainly not alone in a wirelless world :)

I was away at work for two weeks when I fired up my sqeeze things it borked completely gaah :-/ .

Things also tends to coincide a lot for me.

what i did, I upgraded my server to latest nightly and tried out a new controller fw, and then all my wirelless players got severe connectivity issues !
SBC,SBR and SB3

Hmm did the usual routine clear caches and reset xilinks after uppgrade to no avail, but then i found out that SqueezPlay was all happy and did play and was at the server all the time the "SqueezePlay" machine is wired, aha!

logged in to router, watching my stuff going on and of from the network.
SqueezeCenters info don't show this kind of trouble as signal strenght is ok between drop outs .

The tomato router fw has wireless survey function not as good as netstumbler but sufficient for purpose.
"They" did it again ! "They" are my neighbours , two new routers or AP on MY channel, aptly named "default" and "dlink" something.

So this years channel is ch1 last year was ch6 and two years ago i was on ch11

So I have this slow game with my neighbours, when we shuffle channels :)

The piont with this tale ?

1. Wirelles is not constant, you have be aware of that. Things that's been working for years wont stay that way forever.

2. Sods or Murphy's law is also at work here when number 1 occurs you have probably done a lot of other changes the same week, reinstalled a computer changed SC bought a new router or similar, so you are initially confused about the real source of your trouble.

3. Maintaining one wired player is a good way to quickly discover the real truoble. If wired player works, SqueezeCenter works.
SqueezePlay is a good choice as it emulates a controller but wired.
So SqueezePlay on a machine that is wired but NOT on the server is a quicker way the check this than reconfigure one player for wired access.
Of course there is probably cases when wiring a real SB is the only way to investigate.

4. Don't kill the messenger, take a deep breath and investigate further before blaming SC.

Cheers

Moonbase
2009-02-07, 12:08
So true. Probably better kill thy neighbour ;-) (Especially those who run multiple WLANs in one apartment!)

Alternatively, have some beers together, start sharing one WLAN and save a bundle … [especially nice if the neighbour is of the opposite gender and you’re a single]

Mark Lanctot
2009-02-07, 12:18
I always used to have a stable wireless network, but over Christmas, one of the neighbors got something...I don't know what, but several times a day, it knocks out my wireless network for 5-30 minutes at a time.

Checking NetStumbler, it seems to knock out most other wireless networks as well. DD-WRT is showing transmission errors and these continue until things magically start working again. I thought it was my router dying but the latest investigation with DD-WRT shows it's just about every network in range.

Looks like it's time to get one of those powerful and expensive 802.11n routers then. Lately wireless feels like an arms race with your neighbors!

givendale
2009-02-07, 21:21
Not a neighbour in sight for 1km. Don't even need to bother with securing the router!

The other advantage is you can play what you like, when you like at the volume you like.

Regards
Givendale

jo-wie
2009-02-07, 23:28
I always used to have a stable wireless network, but over Christmas, one of the neighbors got something...I don't know what, but several times a day, it knocks out my wireless network for 5-30 minutes at a time.


It is not a microwave oven, 5-30 minutes would be a very hot dish full of convenience food. ;-)

Will a 802.11n router help with your Squeezebox? The Squeezebox is 802.11b/g compatible and thus it will still run the same frequency and protocol as with your old router.

An easy (@Moonbase: no single =D ) method is just to talk to the neighbors and get the 3 possible frequencies sorted in a non overlapping way. I've done it and it works fine.

Mnyb
2009-02-08, 01:23
I prefer the stealth method ;-) I see at least seven different networks.
Sometimes more.
To many neighbours. To my relief they seem to club at the same channels.

I will not make them aware of the fact that you CAN change channels ;-)
They can have their crappy wifi.

Unless one SSID is "nice girl with limited PC experience in need of help" ;-)
(my genome speaks trough me sometimes )

Mark Lanctot
2009-02-08, 08:53
Will a 802.11n router help with your Squeezebox? The Squeezebox is 802.11b/g compatible and thus it will still run the same frequency and protocol as with your old router.

I'm going by reports that in 802.11g mode, they're more powerful. Also MIMO should help.


An easy (@Moonbase: no single =D ) method is just to talk to the neighbors and get the 3 possible frequencies sorted in a non overlapping way. I've done it and it works fine.

I have looked at what channels are in use using NetStumbler and I'm on one they're not on. Seeing as nearly all channels are knocked out, I'm thinking it's something more than just a microwave oven.

bpa
2009-02-08, 11:07
Channel 13 is a forgottem channel which works outside of N. America and is very neglected since many poster just suggest 1,6 or 11 to fix problems.

Also you can use directional antenna (even the cereal packet & tinfoil version) will help with signal by excluding other sources.

toby10
2009-02-08, 11:15
Channel 13 is a forgottem channel which works outside of N. America and is very neglected since many poster just suggest 1,6 or 11 to fix problems.

Also you can use directional antenna (even the cereal packet & tinfoil version) will help with signal by excluding other sources.

Out of curiosity, would US market WiFi devices even see this ch 13? If it can, could it utilize it?

Mnyb
2009-02-08, 13:28
Some routers has a "country" setting or similar that turns on the channels above 11 or different firmware, my old netgear had a US and non US firmware. I think ch13 are "illegal" to use in US but it is not likely that a SWAT team will knock down your door for that.

iPhone
2009-02-08, 13:46
Channel 13 is a forgottem channel which works outside of N. America and is very neglected since many poster just suggest 1,6 or 11 to fix problems.

Also you can use directional antenna (even the cereal packet & tinfoil version) will help with signal by excluding other sources.

The bands have changed. There are now basically the World Band Table 1-12 Channels and the US only table 1-11 Channels. I believe the only country using channel 13 legally is Japan and that is for "b" WiFi only.

toby10
2009-02-08, 15:11
Some routers has a "country" setting or similar that turns on the channels above 11 or different firmware, my old netgear had a US and non US firmware. I think ch13 are "illegal" to use in US but it is not likely that a SWAT team will knock down your door for that.

But say I were to take my laptop or SB Boom to Europe, would my WiFi card's in both devices even see ch's 12 & 13? Could they connect?

bpa
2009-02-08, 15:31
Boom will work as there is only one version of firmware.

Your laptop will depend on the wireless card and its associated driver - you would need to check this out separately.

danco
2009-02-08, 15:32
I'm pretty sure that a US laptop(or SB boom, probably) cannot see channels 12 and 13.

I ran into this issue when a US friend tried to use her laptop at my home in London.

DoomWolf
2009-02-09, 02:31
The bands have changed. There are now basically the World Band Table 1-12 Channels and the US only table 1-11 Channels. I believe the only country using channel 13 legally is Japan and that is for "b" WiFi only.

I happily use channel 13 on my Netgear router here in the UK. I also hope that my neighbours don't know about that channel as I can see up to 11 different WLANs from my house, most of which are Sky routers and BT Home Hubs.

DoomWolf
2009-02-09, 11:31
In fact, make that 16 WLANs plus my own!

jo-wie
2009-02-09, 19:15
The bands have changed. There are now basically the World Band Table 1-12 Channels and the US only table 1-11 Channels. I believe the only country using channel 13 legally is Japan and that is for "b" WiFi only.

2,4 GHz channels US 1-11, Europe 1-13, Japan 1-14

In US and Europe are 3 in Japan 4 non overlapping networks possible.

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

iPhone
2009-02-09, 19:44
2,4 GHz channels US 1-11, Europe 1-13, Japan 1-14

In US and Europe are 3 in Japan 4 non overlapping networks possible.

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

Typo, That should have been channel 14 "B" only for Japan and 1-13 for World Table. Also the Wikipedia is behind. There are only the two tables now, North America and the World Table with the asterisk on Channel 14 for "B" only use in Japan. So realistically for G routers and networks itís NA 1-11 and the World 1-13. Thanks for catching that.

jo-wie
2009-02-09, 23:13
Typo, That should have been channel 14 "B" only for Japan and 1-13 for World Table. Also the Wikipedia is behind. There are only the two tables now, North America and the World Table with the asterisk on Channel 14 for "B" only use in Japan. So realistically for G routers and networks itís NA 1-11 and the World 1-13. Thanks for catching that.

Sorry my fault, I took the information first from mind and the german wikipedia entry which do not note the 802.11b only for Japan. English link was added later and not completly crossread by me.

So also in Japan you can only have 3 non overlapping 802.11g networks.

pfarrell
2009-02-09, 23:25
I just checked out what I can see from my laptop.
I see nine WiFi access points, mine and eight others. Five of them use
Channel 6. Two use 11, one used 5, one used 1

There are no free channels. One is a neighbor across the circle from me,
probably 100 meters away. Another is down the street, more like 400
meters away. One that is fairly weak is more like 500 meters away.

Two of them are still named "linksys" with no encryption. One still
named Netgear.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/