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View Full Version : Does Logitech even care???



Cockeye
2009-01-27, 03:08
Have been having problems with squeezecenter / squeezebox losing info and I keep having to reinstall squeezecenter.

I emailed Logitech 10 days ago, and got an automated response saying they would respond in 24 hours. Since then, absolutely nothing. And no, it's not in my spam folder.

Very poor, and unacceptable IMHO.

Teus de Jong
2009-01-27, 03:20
I don't know if Logitech in your country cares. I never contacted them; always found solutions to problems here. But this is a user to user forum. If you expect help here, you have to explain your problem.

Teus

bpa
2009-01-27, 03:32
You have give some details of your problem in other posts. Details of your system enable suggestions to be made.

What OS ?
What version of SC ?
Are you files and SC Database on a NAS ?
If Windows any security s/w
Are there any "interesting" messages in the server and scanner log file ?
Do you run any automated procedures that could affect SC such as clearing cache, rebuild database ?
Just before info was lost - did you add more albums, change settings or any other SC action besides browse and play ?

Cockeye
2009-01-27, 03:34
I have a strong suspicion that it is down to me making significant alterations to the itunes database as it always seems to happen after doing that, so I am not actually TOO worried about the problem as I think and hope once all my CDs are ripped it will be fine.

My point is about Logitech not replying to support requests which is, I think, pretty poor.

regalma1
2009-01-27, 13:19
Very savvy company. They produce a product, sell it, and leave it to users to solve any problems. Keeps the overhead down. Actually pretty typical of computer companies - sorry to say.

For what it is worth. This was my experience before they were bought by Logitech.

iPhone
2009-01-27, 13:35
Very savvy company. They produce a product, sell it, and leave it to users to solve any problems. Keeps the overhead down. Actually pretty typical of computer companies - sorry to say.

For what it is worth. This was my experience before they were bought by Logitech.

Strange to hear that. I have called the Tech Support Help line and my issue was solved all three times. Once before the take-over and twice after. I have E-mailed Tech Support and had my issue resolved every time. Was it as quick as calling tech Support, no it was not. But it was never 10 days before hearing back from them either.

Yes itís only my opinion, but they make a wonderful product and have some the best support I have ever received. And last but certainly not least, they have the best Users Forum hands down. When the owner of the company of Slim Devices takes the time to follow the Forum, that is company awareness. YMMV.

st2000
2009-01-27, 13:52
regalma1 wrote:
> Very savvy company. They produce a product, sell it, and leave it to
> users to solve any problems. Keeps the overhead down. Actually pretty
> typical of computer companies - sorry to say.
>
> For what it is worth. This was my experience before they were bought by
> Logitech.

Keep in mind the server was developed by many of the people who frequent
this list. Not Logitech. And if you want to be one of those people, you
can be.

Also, keep in mind that problems that developers / users hate are
usually resolved quickly unlike commercial music servers. For years now
I have heard people complain about iTunes creating double entries of
music collections. From what I can tell, it would be simple for Apple
to solve this problem. I don't believe this is a problem with SC.

Getting back to the original post - why are you ripping using iTunes?

Here are some of the questions I would ask if I were doing what you are
doing:

Doesn't this put you into a position of always transcoding music from
Apples AAC format? (Ripping inside of iTunes probably creates these
types of files, right? This is not native to SB players AFAIK. So,
will your server always need to transcode from AAC to MP3 or FLAC or
something else on the fly every time you play somethine?)

If you rip with iTunes will you always have to run iTunes to access your
music? (So, correct me if I am wrong. But you will need to run iTunes
and SC and MySQL and what ever transcoding software you need to convert
from iTunes to a stream the SB will understand. Wow, what a lot of
overhead for something that should be simple.)

If you rip with iTunes now before they get rid of DRM will you be locked
into iTunes. Will there be a reason that will cause you to re-rip your
CD collection after DRM is removed from iTunes (if/when that happens)?

If you rip with iTunes will you be able to easily support other music
appliances like sony walkman phones, gramin GPSs, ... ect with out
re-ripping your CD collection?

What I do is rip my CD collection to MP3s which is fairly universal,
even w/iTunes. And if you are really picky, you can try FLAC, which is
not as universal. This way I can play back my collection on just about
every music appliance I own.

....hope that helps.

Steve Bernard, Jr
2009-01-27, 14:15
I'm not commenting on this thread as a whole but I want to correct a
few misconceptions about iTunes where I am able.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, stuart wrote:
>
> Getting back to the original post - why are you ripping using iTunes?
>
> Here are some of the questions I would ask if I were doing what you are
> doing:
>
> Doesn't this put you into a position of always transcoding music from
> Apples AAC format? (Ripping inside of iTunes probably creates these
> types of files, right? This is not native to SB players AFAIK. So,
> will your server always need to transcode from AAC to MP3 or FLAC or
> something else on the fly every time you play somethine?)

AAC is the default ripping format of iTunes, but iTunes also comes
with built-in support for ripping to AIFF, Apple Lossless, MP3 and
WAV. But, yes, the SqueezeBox firmware does not natively decode AAC
files.

> If you rip with iTunes will you always have to run iTunes to access your
> music? (So, correct me if I am wrong. But you will need to run iTunes
> and SC and MySQL and what ever transcoding software you need to convert
> from iTunes to a stream the SB will understand. Wow, what a lot of
> overhead for something that should be simple.)

This is incorrect. Music ripped with iTunes can be played back using
any other application that can decode that file type. You can point
SqueezeCenter at your AAC/MP3 library and never tell it iTunes is in
any way involved and they will play fine (tracks you've ripped
yourself or iTunes Plus tracks, that is). iTunes integration with
SqueezeCenter has to do with SqueezeCenter reading your iTunes library
information for info about your music. iTunes is not invoked in any
way to facilitate the actual playback.

> If you rip with iTunes now before they get rid of DRM will you be locked
> into iTunes. Will there be a reason that will cause you to re-rip your
> CD collection after DRM is removed from iTunes (if/when that happens)?

This is another misconception. Music that you rip yourself with
iTunes has never been encumbered by DRM. Only certain music files
purchased from the iTunes store use DRM that would restrict playback
with other players.

> If you rip with iTunes will you be able to easily support other music
> appliances like sony walkman phones, gramin GPSs, ... ect with out
> re-ripping your CD collection?

Yes, if your other device can play MP3, AAC, AIFF, WAV, or Apple
Lossless then you would be able to play back files ripped with iTunes
on those devices.

> What I do is rip my CD collection to MP3s which is fairly universal,
> even w/iTunes. And if you are really picky, you can try FLAC, which is
> not as universal. This way I can play back my collection on just about
> every music appliance I own.

I personally maintain a FLAC library ripped with EAC for my
SqueezeCenter music and use foobar2000 and the Nero AAC encoder to
maintain a lossy library for my iTunes/iPod. I find that this works
well for my purposes. However, using iTunes as a ripper does not
cause the sorts of far-reaching problems you seem to be imagining.

-Steve

st2000
2009-01-27, 15:55
Steve Bernard, Jr wrote:
> I'm not commenting on this thread as a whole but I want to correct a
> few misconceptions about iTunes where I am able.
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, stuart wrote:
>> Getting back to the original post - why are you ripping using iTunes?
>>
>> Here are some of the questions I would ask if I were doing what you are
>> doing:
>>
>> Doesn't this put you into a position of always transcoding music from
>> Apples AAC format? (Ripping inside of iTunes probably creates these
>> types of files, right? This is not native to SB players AFAIK. So,
>> will your server always need to transcode from AAC to MP3 or FLAC or
>> something else on the fly every time you play somethine?)
>
> AAC is the default ripping format of iTunes, but iTunes also comes
> with built-in support for ripping to AIFF, Apple Lossless, MP3 and
> WAV. But, yes, the SqueezeBox firmware does not natively decode AAC
> files.

Yes, but I bet most people are "flying w/the default settings" (i.e.
ripping to AAC).

>> If you rip with iTunes will you always have to run iTunes to access your
>> music? (So, correct me if I am wrong. But you will need to run iTunes
>> and SC and MySQL and what ever transcoding software you need to convert
>> from iTunes to a stream the SB will understand. Wow, what a lot of
>> overhead for something that should be simple.)
>
> This is incorrect. Music ripped with iTunes can be played back using
> any other application that can decode that file type. You can point
> SqueezeCenter at your AAC/MP3 library and never tell it iTunes is in
> any way involved and they will play fine (tracks you've ripped
> yourself or iTunes Plus tracks, that is). iTunes integration with
> SqueezeCenter has to do with SqueezeCenter reading your iTunes library
> information for info about your music. iTunes is not invoked in any
> way to facilitate the actual playback.

Ok, but what about all those "bought" files? I thought, and maybe I'm
wrong here, that the SC / iTunes feature was created to allow playing
back of the bought (i.e. DRM encoded) music.

>> If you rip with iTunes now before they get rid of DRM will you be locked
>> into iTunes. Will there be a reason that will cause you to re-rip your
>> CD collection after DRM is removed from iTunes (if/when that happens)?
>
> This is another misconception. Music that you rip yourself with
> iTunes has never been encumbered by DRM. Only certain music files
> purchased from the iTunes store use DRM that would restrict playback
> with other players.

Good to know.

>> If you rip with iTunes will you be able to easily support other music
>> appliances like sony walkman phones, gramin GPSs, ... ect with out
>> re-ripping your CD collection?
>
> Yes, if your other device can play MP3, AAC, AIFF, WAV, or Apple
> Lossless then you would be able to play back files ripped with iTunes
> on those devices.

Again, I'm betting most iTunes users rip mindlessly to AAC. Further,
I'm betting AAC files don't play back on the above music appliances.

>> What I do is rip my CD collection to MP3s which is fairly universal,
>> even w/iTunes. And if you are really picky, you can try FLAC, which is
>> not as universal. This way I can play back my collection on just about
>> every music appliance I own.
>
> I personally maintain a FLAC library ripped with EAC for my
> SqueezeCenter music and use foobar2000 and the Nero AAC encoder to
> maintain a lossy library for my iTunes/iPod. I find that this works
> well for my purposes. However, using iTunes as a ripper does not
> cause the sorts of far-reaching problems you seem to be imagining.
>
> -Steve

Hey, thanks for clearing these questions up. I'm a "lite" iTunes users
and these questions have bothered me for some time.

---

Say, would you be able to solve my biggest iTunes problem? I create m3u
files when I rip my CD collections. This works well on the many music
clients I use including SqueezeCenter. But iTunes always creates double
entries because of these files. I understand if the paths match and are
absolute this may not happen. But I routinely mount my collection on
different computers at different locations. Therefore I'm not willing
to forsake the powerful advantage of relative paths just to satisfy
iTunes. Besides, windows does not handle absolute paths well as the
user has little control over the mounting point (i.e. the windows drive
letter). Is there an iTunes setting such that it will ignore or
properly use the m3u files?

Steve Bernard, Jr
2009-01-27, 17:19
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 5:55 PM, stuart wrote:
>
>> This is incorrect. Music ripped with iTunes can be played back using
>> any other application that can decode that file type. You can point
>> SqueezeCenter at your AAC/MP3 library and never tell it iTunes is in
>> any way involved and they will play fine (tracks you've ripped
>> yourself or iTunes Plus tracks, that is). iTunes integration with
>> SqueezeCenter has to do with SqueezeCenter reading your iTunes library
>> information for info about your music. iTunes is not invoked in any
>> way to facilitate the actual playback.
>
> Ok, but what about all those "bought" files? I thought, and maybe I'm
> wrong here, that the SC / iTunes feature was created to allow playing
> back of the bought (i.e. DRM encoded) music.

Nope. SC will not play back a DRM-encumbered AAC file from the iTunes
store. Other appliances like the Sonos or Roku players have the same
limitation. In fact, as far as I know the only hardware players that
will play protected AAC files are the Airport Express and Apple TV/

>>> If you rip with iTunes will you be able to easily support other music
>>> appliances like sony walkman phones, gramin GPSs, ... ect with out
>>> re-ripping your CD collection?
>>
>> Yes, if your other device can play MP3, AAC, AIFF, WAV, or Apple
>> Lossless then you would be able to play back files ripped with iTunes
>> on those devices.
>
> Again, I'm betting most iTunes users rip mindlessly to AAC. Further,
> I'm betting AAC files don't play back on the above music appliances.
>

Walkman phones have played back AAC since 2005. (cf.
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/4998/ ). AAC is
also supported on Blackberry phones, Palm devices (including phones),
Nokia phones, and others. From some brief research, it looks like
Garmin GPS-only units will only play MP3 files. The Garmin nuvifone
plays AAC, as do many car stereo units with Garmin GPS integrated such
as Alpine, Kenwood, etc.

I'm no codec evangelist, but I do think it's worth pointing out that
AAC is not some marginal codec that nobody supports. There are plenty
of software and hardware products that will play the files. Hell,
even the Zune will play AAC files. If you have a whole library of
*non-DRM* AAC files in your iTunes and you decide the iPod isn't for
you, you can easily take those files with you to, for example, a Zune,
a Creative Zen, a Sandisk Sansa View, any number of Cowon players, or
an Archos (although it looks like you have to buy a plugin to make it
work on the Archos. Blech), so you're in no way locked into Apple
hardware.

>
> Say, would you be able to solve my biggest iTunes problem? I create m3u
> files when I rip my CD collections. This works well on the many music
> clients I use including SqueezeCenter. But iTunes always creates double
> entries because of these files. I understand if the paths match and are
> absolute this may not happen. But I routinely mount my collection on
> different computers at different locations. Therefore I'm not willing
> to forsake the powerful advantage of relative paths just to satisfy
> iTunes. Besides, windows does not handle absolute paths well as the
> user has little control over the mounting point (i.e. the windows drive
> letter). Is there an iTunes setting such that it will ignore or
> properly use the m3u files?

I don't have a great answer for this as I too find that iTunes has
pretty crummy support for external playlists. I guess the simplest
option would be to not use the "Add file to library" or "Add folder to
library" functions within iTunes, but instead right click at the top
of your library and select Search. Then search for *.mp3 and wait for
all the results to come up. Then ctrl-A to select all and drag them
all into the iTunes library, That'll let you import only your MP3
files a none of your playlists.

-Steve

st2000
2009-01-28, 08:30
Steve Bernard, Jr wrote:
....<cut>...
>> Say, would you be able to solve my biggest iTunes problem? I create m3u
>> files when I rip my CD collections. This works well on the many music
>> clients I use including SqueezeCenter. But iTunes always creates double
>> entries because of these files. I understand if the paths match and are
>> absolute this may not happen. But I routinely mount my collection on
>> different computers at different locations. Therefore I'm not willing
>> to forsake the powerful advantage of relative paths just to satisfy
>> iTunes. Besides, windows does not handle absolute paths well as the
>> user has little control over the mounting point (i.e. the windows drive
>> letter). Is there an iTunes setting such that it will ignore or
>> properly use the m3u files?
>
> I don't have a great answer for this as I too find that iTunes has
> pretty crummy support for external playlists. I guess the simplest
> option would be to not use the "Add file to library" or "Add folder to
> library" functions within iTunes, but instead right click at the top
> of your library and select Search. Then search for *.mp3 and wait for
> all the results to come up. Then ctrl-A to select all and drag them
> all into the iTunes library, That'll let you import only your MP3
> files a none of your playlists.
>
> -Steve

Oh, first I thought ... no, I don't what to copy the music files, I just
want to point to the music files. Regardless, I tried the procedure.
Afterwards I noticed disk drive usage remained unchanged. Further,
iTunes reported the music resided on the mounted drive. Yha-hoo! I'm
taping this one on the wall! Thanks Steve.

Sorry to hijack the thread Cockeye - hopefully some of your questions
were answered. I'm still not sure how well SC & iTunes interact. I know
from experience that SC is fairly solid when it comes to taking care of
it's own MySQL data base. From the sounds if it so is iTunes. But
crossing the two appears to lead to some anomalies that, evidently,
people are either living with or have worked around.

iPhone
2009-01-28, 09:34
I'm not commenting on this thread as a whole but I want to correct a few misconceptions about iTunes where I am able. .... "Removed by iPhone" .....

I personally maintain a FLAC library ripped with EAC for my
SqueezeCenter music and use foobar2000 and the Nero AAC encoder to
maintain a lossy library for my iTunes/iPod. I find that this works
well for my purposes. However, using iTunes as a ripper does not
cause the sorts of far-reaching problems you seem to be imagining.

-Steve

I have to agree with Steve on this point. I also maintain a complete FLAC library and only convert the songs I listen to on my iPhone to MP3 in a totally diffierent library. I DO NOT let iTunes see or know about my FLAC music files.

It is my opinion that iTunes was designed with an idiot or sometimes computer user as its end user. It tries to control and take over everything. Its sees album art missing, is it goes and gets what it thinks you need without any choices on your part. How hard would it have been for iTunes to stop and ask, keep current or replace with this?

For me the easy solution is to rip to FLAC and convert to whatever format one wants to use with iTunes. One advantage of this is that the FLAC files are always there to reconvert if iTunes hoses things up. And the Squeezebox products love FLAC as its source files. Yes I go to extremes of keeping my FLAC files on a server and my iPhone MP3s on another machine, but its just as easy to keep them on different drives or in completely different directories on a single machine. Most of the issues that come up are because of iTunes.

Howard Passman
2009-01-28, 11:42
I have to agree with Steve on this point. I also maintain a complete FLAC library and only convert the songs I listen to on my iPhone to MP3 in a totally diffierent library. I DO NOT let iTunes see or know about my FLAC music files.

It is my opinion that iTunes was designed with an idiot or sometimes computer user as its end user. It tries to control and take over everything. Its sees album art missing, is it goes and gets what it thinks you need without any choices on your part. How hard would it have been for iTunes to stop and ask, keep current or replace with this?

For me the easy solution is to rip to FLAC and convert to whatever format one wants to use with iTunes. One advantage of this is that the FLAC files are always there to reconvert if iTunes hoses things up. And the Squeezebox products love FLAC as its source files. Yes I go to extremes of keeping my FLAC files on a server and my iPhone MP3s on another machine, but its just as easy to keep them on different drives or in completely different directories on a single machine. Most of the issues that come up are because of iTunes.

I'm no iTunes fan and just recently even put iTunes on my music server, but most of the oddball stuff iTunes does you can turn off in the preferences. I know you can stop it from going out to get art work. I may live to regret this statement, but so far iTunes hasn't messed anything up and only added two processes.

The iTunes Plus files don't sound too bad especially for the older rock which wasn't recorded that well in most cases anyway. I don't think I'd ever buy any Jazz from iTunes Plus.

Have a great day.

Howard

rainjacks
2009-01-28, 12:21
To answer the original question:

Yes

MostlyLucid
2009-01-30, 06:47
On 4 different calls (I have setup a lot of these for my customers)....

I have always had a very good experience with tech support. I have never used the email support, just the phone so I can't comment on that.

But phone support has been very good.

so...yes.