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hardflipman
2009-01-19, 04:01
hello, i've got a SB3 but haven't moved into my new house yet so haven't set it up yet. however that hasn't stopped me planning what to do! I was wondering what folk think of using an ipod touch with ipeng as a controller or getting a duet controller. i also have a dell mini 9 netbook which i could do something with i suppose or indeed an htc trinity windows mobile phone. any suggestions? note that i haven't actually used the squeezebox yet so i don't even know how good the ordinary remote is! also i was thinking of getting a squeezebox boom for the kitchen so hopefully whatever i got would be compatible with that too

cheers

egd
2009-01-19, 04:09
I have both the Duet (Controller & Receiver) as well as an iPod Touch with iPeng installed. As a remote the iPod/iPeng combination wins hands down and will be able to control any of your Squeezebox devices incl. the Boom (which is actually a pretty good portable player). Had the family around for a BBQ yesterday, put the Boom outside on a table and handed the iPod Touch to the guests. All were impressed with both the remote and the Boom, in fact there were even comments made about how good the sound was for such a small little "radio". I see the Controller's only real use being a portable remote player itself.

badbob
2009-01-19, 06:30
Best remote for Slimserver would be some kind of tablet PC or large screen screen device, or maybe a touchscreen UMPC (keyboard allows super fast text entry) that way you have lots of icons on screen, in high resolution and can navigate around quickly. I guess you could have SS installed on the tablet PC but with the music elseware.

Things like Duet remote or ipod seem ok but not could be better.

pippin
2009-01-19, 06:48
Best remote for Slimserver would be some kind of tablet PC or large screen screen device, or maybe a touchscreen UMPC (keyboard allows super fast text entry) that way you have lots of icons on screen, in high resolution and can navigate around quickly. I guess you could have SS installed on the tablet PC but with the music elseware.


If it then could also be small...

badbob
2009-01-19, 07:10
If it then could also be small...

Just because it's small doesn't mean it's good. Have you tried using a new mobile phone were the buttons are so small you need a pen to press them?

having something like this 10" touchscreen, would be brilliant

http://www.buildadvr.com/images/mediaportal-1.jpg

Although for HT use I'd prefer hard buttoned remote, but for the SB control would choose large high resolution touchscreen.

pippin
2009-01-19, 07:26
Just because it's small doesn't mean it's good. Have you tried using a new mobile phone were the buttons are so small you need a pen to press them?

having something like this 10" touchscreen, would be brilliant

http://www.buildadvr.com/images/mediaportal-1.jpg

Although for HT use I'd prefer hard buttoned remote, but for the SB control would choose large high resolution touchscreen.
It doesn't help if it's easy to use when I have it in the other room. Personally, I even find SBC a bit too big.

And, yes. I did have a SonyEricsson M600i phone for a few years and while that phone generally sucked, the keyboard was brilliant and I was able to enter text much faster than on any touch screen I've seen so far - and I have seen a few. Tactile feedback is worth a lot for typing!

But typing is something I VERY rarely do on my remote so what the iPod touch offers is completely fine with me.
I do admit that IMHO the perfect remote is not yet there (working on it :-) ) because it would have to have a touch screen AND hard keys for Play/Pause/Volume/Skip.
The new LinkSys controller comes close, concept wise, although judging from forum comments one sees the implementation of that one destroys the concept.

bernt
2009-01-19, 07:45
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Notebook/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2835

and

http://www.thinkgos.com/index.php

badbob
2009-01-19, 08:02
Would like

Touch screen high res
Slide out keyboard like OQO 2+, reduced key count backlit QWERTY
IR & RF remote, and wireless LAN, built in software for IR control (multiple devices)
Hard buttons for navigation, volume, select, play, pause, stop, ffwd rwd, slip fwd/rwnd.

UMPC are fast enough to have slim installed.

pippin
2009-01-19, 08:14
Would like

Touch screen high res
Slide out keyboard like OQO 2+, reduced key count backlit QWERTY
IR & RF remote, and wireless LAN, built in software for IR control (multiple devices)
Hard buttons for navigation, volume, select, play, pause, stop, ffwd rwd, slip fwd/rwnd.

UMPC are fast enough to have slim installed.

For me, that sounds like too many buttons already. For a remote.
What's "navigation"?

badbob
2009-01-19, 09:19
Up, down, left, right & select.

I've owned a few remotes and nothing can compare to a hard buttoned remote, with the display (either touchscreen or buttoned to the side) for custom names. Also hard buttons for numericals is recommended, much faster than using touchscreen. I've owned a largish screenscreen in the past, nice idea but needed more hard buttons for generic multi-source (numericals, navigation, play, pause, power etc cover several sources) So why bother with touchscreen buttons for those keys?

Things like the old style Prontos were crap, at least for a HT perspective.

I'm currently using URC MX-850, it's great. Can't complain about the bottom half for the buttons I use. But for a SB setup, it could do with graphics/icons support for the screen- rather than text only, and access net browser. But I understand the LCD uses hardly any power, once you add backlight LCD that sucks the power.

Plus you want things like macros, shorttcut links, ability to customize exactly how you want it (no damn Harmony wizards)

I'm happy with MX-850 for the HT, but wouldn't mind charging dock, and for the 3.5mm jack to replaced with mini USB. URC MX-3000 looks alright but would like more hard buttons/

As for UMPC with slide out keyboard, you don't have to use it, but it's there if you want to enter in a name without the hassle of the numerical keypad cycle thing. With buttons next to the screen ala URC MX-3000.

pippin
2009-01-19, 09:35
up, down, left, right and select with a touch screen are things I don't understand.

I suspect you haven't tried the iPhone / iPod touch, right? Those capacitive touch screens in connection with powerful graphics processing make for really great browsing tools, much, much, much faster and simpler than you can ever do it with hard keys.

The one thing where you need hard keys is where you want hard-coded immediate action, being volume, play/pause, maybe skip, maybe some configurable shortcut keys.
And long text input, like e-mails.
For everything else, modern touch screens win hands-down. Can't compare it to PDA touch screens or Tablet-PC or Kiosk style touch screens.

badbob
2009-01-19, 10:01
You're wrong. Touchscreen only inputs suck, yes I've used iphone still prefer hard buttons as well. Touchscreens are great if you want custom size, custom icons/logos but for standard controls - navigation, transport controls & numericals hard buttons win hands down. But if you need lots of buttons on the touch screen - without annoyance of scrolling through pages you need a large one, things like iphone are useless. I'd say 7" minimum for touchscreen only remote. If you're used Crestrons things like iphone seem like a toy.

I hate scrolling or flipping around pages to get to what I want when I'm in that activity already, I want major buttons available. For example on my 850 remote DVD "activity" has the following buttons without flipping pages

Volume +/-, Mute amp
Eject, Audio, Angle, Subs, Skip/rev chapter, Menu, Title, Info, exit, Up, Down, Left Right & select, Play, pause & stop, Numericals DVD
Aspect control TV
4 sound modes - av processor
Lights

Try doing that on a iphone, on one page, and being able to continue watch TV whilst using the touchscreen! Try using a touchscreen without looking at it :-) In a HT this is useful, although I understand for SB not so (for example always looking at the screen if using web browser for SB control)

pippin
2009-01-19, 10:14
You're wrong. Touchscreen only inputs suck, yes I've used iphone still prefer hard buttons as well. Touchscreens are great if you want custom size, custom icons/logos but for standard controls - navigation, transport controls & numericals hard buttons win hands down. But if you need lots of buttons on the touch screen - without annoyance of scrolling through pages you need a large one, things like iphone are useless. I'd say 7" minimum for touchscreen only remote. If you're used Crestrons things like iphone seem like a toy.

I hate scrolling or flipping around pages to get to what I want when I'm in that activity already, I want major buttons available. For example on my 850 remote DVD "activity" has the following buttons without flipping pages

Volume +/-, Mute amp
Eject, Audio, Angle, Subs, Skip/rev chapter, Menu, Title, Info, exit, Up, Down, Left Right & select, Play, pause & stop, Numericals DVD
Aspect control TV
4 sound modes - av processor
Lights

Try doing that on a iphone, on one page, and being able to continue watch TV whilst using the touchscreen! Try using a touchscreen without looking at it :-) In a HT this is useful, although I understand for SB not so (for example always looking at the screen if using web browser for SB control)

I don't believe you that you can use a 26+ button remote without looking at it.

No scrolling?? I have a small library with < 800 albums, but still... How?
Radio stations: A few thousands... How?

BTW. I didn't talk TV/DVD! I would never use an iPhone for controlling TV since it makes of course more sense to use the TV screen if you have to look at it anyway. That'S a completely different animal from what we are talking about here! When I listen to music I'm sitting at a desk/table, on a Sofa, lying in bed, cooking, shving, you name it. No way I want to carry around a 7" unit for that or that I want to run to a screen.

I do agree that probably all of your "actions" above there would profit from dedicated buttons, however _I_ would profit from still being able to use the device.

The main advantage of the Touch screen are:
- you can scroll through lists fast, haven't seen _big_ touch screens that do that efficiently, though. The only other useful device for this is a scroll wheel.
- you are flexible in your layout and thus can avoid menu levels or icons, both of which rapidly become confusing when used in excess.

I agree touch screen _only_ is not perfect, that's why I said big touch screen plus few buttons.

badbob
2009-01-19, 12:12
I don't believe you that you can use a 26+ button remote without looking at it.

err I can- that's why I bought it, for DVD activty I have 29 hard active buttons and I can use without looking at it (LCD buttons which is another 10 buttons but have to look at those)


No way I want to carry around a 7" unit

What's so bulky about a 7" picture frame LCD, if it offers better browsing capability? Nokia N770 looks good but I would need IR output. I believe the SB IR output can send amp signals. but would need 2 zone IR control (two amps with difference volume/mute commands)



however _I_ would profit from still being able to use the device.



And how exactly will a remote with hard buttons not allow you to use it?

You sound like a Apple fan boy.


that's why I said big touch screen plus few buttons

Yeah something like Pronto 9400, I'd rather use the 9400 over ipod touch (if the 9400 had http access)

pippin
2009-01-19, 12:43
What's so bulky about a 7" picture frame LCD, if it offers better browsing capability? Nokia N770 looks good but I would need IR output. I believe the SB IR output can send amp signals. but would need 2 zone IR control (two amps with difference volume/mute commands)

Quite simple: Too big for my pockets.
I tried N770 and PSP.
NO!


And how exactly will a remote with hard buttons not allow you to use it?

Too complicated.


You sound like a Apple fan boy.

You should hear me swear about my MacBook Air which is probably the worst computer I've ever owned!
But for _ME_ the iPod (more than the phone) is the perfect remote, if it only had those few hardware buttons I mentioned.
I'm not THAT enthusiastic about the iPhone as a phone, for example, there it's quite mediocre.
But again: I'm only talking music here. For TV I use a conventional remote and I rarely ever watch DVDs.


Yeah something like Pronto 9400, I'd rather use the 9400 over ipod touch (if the 9400 had http access)
Those are so big, again.
may be a personal thing, but I need small. For example I hate most smartphones for being too fat (e.g. my old M600i).

badbob
2009-01-19, 13:44
A good remote control cannot be small with little to no buttons. I've got a URC MX-200 and it's great for single source/amp but totally useless for anything more than that.

Why limit yourself to a flawed remote design just because you want micro remote? If you think the Prono 950 is big, checkout Lexicon 700T and Crestons. Basically 7-12" LCD. But fantastic, you should try one rather than rubbish them. I doubt you'll go back to iphone

pippin
2009-01-19, 13:50
A good remote control cannot be small with little to no buttons. I've got a URC MX-200 and it's great for single source/amp but totally useless for anything more than that.

Why limit yourself to a flawed remote design just because you want micro remote? If you think the Prono 950 is big, checkout Lexicon 700T and Crestons. Basically 7-12" LCD. But fantastic, you should try one rather than rubbish them. I doubt you'll go back to iphone

I didn't rubbish them, you are rubbishing things.
_I_ just said that for _ME_ most of these feel too big.
_YOU_ can do what you like, obviously you try to control much more with it than I do, I just have to control my Squeezeboxen.
SBC is also too big for me.

ptrainer
2009-01-19, 23:55
Here’s my $.02 when it comes to the “ideal” remote. There is no such thing as a perfect remote… it’s always a compromise in one manner or another. Ultimately, the deciding factor should be how you plan to use your remote. The OP specifically asked about running a SB so I certainly won’t get into video applications or other areas.

The iPhone is the right remote for me because I find it the easiest way to get to the music I want. I can get to the exact song I want in about five taps and a few swipes after launching iPeng. It’s very quick. With the SBC, it’s the same amount of clicks, but using the wheel for scrolling takes much longer and I often over- or under-shoot and end up needing to back out again before getting it right. It doesn’t seem like it would, but it really takes much longer.

The SBC is also too tall to put in my pocket and much more fragile than the iPhone. With a silicone sleeve and screen-guard the iPhone is extremely sturdy and you can easily toss it in you pants or jacket pocket. I’ve never dropped my SBC but don’t imagine it would do that well with it. For me, another huge advantage to the iPhone is that’s it’s already in my pocket almost all of the time since it is my mobile phone too (though I agree with pippin that it is only a mediocre phone.) This basically means I hardly ever have to go hunting for the remote.

I don’t have any use for a tablet PC or large screen (7-12 inch) device. Yes, it could make the actual operation a little easier and offer nicer graphics, but it would be something that would have to be actively carried around the house. I have nine zones on three floors and wouldn’t want to lug something like that from room to room (or buy nine of them!)

In terms of text entry I almost never find the need to do it. I don’t use the search function. I have around 1500 albums and have no trouble remembering which Artist and Album to look in to find a track.

As far as the lack of hard buttons on the iPhone, it is actually an advantage. It simplifies things to have ‘buttons’ only where you need them and allows for a larger graphic screen relative to overall size of the remote. The only thing I miss is a hard volume control. iPeng’s volume slider can be hard to activate. The SBC wins on that front. If the iPhones hard volume could control the SB’s volume one day it would fix that issue.

The main advantage of the SBC at this point is that you can use it as a ‘walkman’ with headphones. If you would use it in that way often, you really need to get one.

Regarding the regular IR remote, they wouldn’t do me any good since I almost always control my music from across the room (or even in an adjacent room.) If you tend to sit right in front of your music source it of course would work fine. Still, it would be slower that the SBC or iPeng and you wouldn’t get all the nice album graphics. :o)

Ironically, the iPhone is pretty much a pain to use for most other things but just seems to make the ideal Squeeze system remote IMHO. And the iPeng software definitely has room for some improvement but it still is very, very good at doing its job at this point. And with software, improvements can always come in future updates.

pfarrell
2009-01-20, 00:11
ptrainer wrote:
> Ironically, the iPhone is pretty much a pain to use for most other
> things but just seems to make the ideal Squeeze system remote IMHO.

Which would say that for you, an iPod touch is close to ideal, since it
doesn't bother with the phone stuff, and is cheaper


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

ptrainer
2009-01-20, 00:30
Which would say that for you, an iPod touch is close to ideal, since it
doesn't bother with the phone stuff, and is cheaper

I was actually using iPhone/iPod Touch interchangeably. Unless you really wanted the phone function you would of course just go for the iPod. The advantage of it being my phone is that it tends to be with me at all times and I don't need another thing (mobile) in my pocket. It isn't a terrible phone, just okay and I guess that's where actual buttons are better, when functioning a a phone keypad. As for my "pain" comment I was specifically referring to the web browsing (iPhone or iPod Touch) which is slow and very crash happy. Not to mention the screen is really too small for that sort of internet browsing. Plus, the camera (iPhone only) is a very clumsy design and poor in quality. Still, it is a fantastic Squeeze remote. :o)

Dougr33
2009-01-20, 11:23
Can I use Ipeng to run squeezecenter/softsqueeze on my computer WithOut having a squeezebox?? Thanks.

pippin
2009-01-20, 11:38
Yes, no problem.

)p(
2009-01-20, 14:51
What's so bulky about a 7" picture frame LCD, if it offers better browsing capability? Nokia N770 looks good but I would need IR output. I believe the SB IR output can send amp signals. but would need 2 zone IR control (two amps with difference volume/mute commands)

I agree a lcd tablet would be my preferred sc remote. I now use a n800 with remote desktop. It works well but I would prefer a slightly larger screen. I will only carry it from the stand to the couch...no reason for it to fit in my pocket ;)

peter

badbob
2009-01-20, 15:03
Eventually someone thinking the same as me.

This big enough for you? :-)

)p(
2009-01-21, 02:03
Something like this one is what I am thinking about:

http://www.myviliv.com/ces/main_x70atom.html

pete

pippin
2009-01-21, 02:14
Eventually someone thinking the same as me.

This big enough for you? :-)

Err...no:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=1yHB40jeTOw

SJobson
2009-01-21, 03:31
I am very happy with my iPhone and iPeng as a remote, though I often use the normal IR SB3 remote and Boom remote (the latter because I can stick it to the cooker hood, so it's handy).

What I'd like is something along the lines of a 15" touchscreen which is not a remote, but which sits at the stereo and can be used to compile playlists and select music more easily than using a remote. Most of the time I just use the Squeezecentre web interface on my laptop over any of real remotes/iPhone for just this reason.

hardflipman
2009-01-23, 06:36
thanks for all the replies. I think that the ipod touch is the way to go for me. but i won't be rushing to buy one. maybe wait until the next refresh of them.
i like the idea that you can listen to music on the squeezebox controller but then i could just use my ipod!