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Anne
2009-01-04, 13:59
Having a problem, tried smart gain, album gain and track gain, and there is still large differencies between tracks. for instance Dire Straits is pretty loud, and Eric Clapton way down low.
Use Random mix quite a bit, thats why its a bit annoying.
Use Inguz at -17db. No clipping there.

Yannzola
2009-01-04, 14:16
Having a problem, tried smart gain, album gain and track gain, and there is still large differencies between tracks. for instance Dire Straits is pretty loud, and Eric Clapton way down low.
Use Random mix quite a bit, thats why its a bit annoying.
Use Inguz at -17db. No clipping there.

Did you apply replay-gain tags to these tracks? The volume adjustment isn't automatic... you'll need to apply tags using foobar2000 or some other tagger that can calculate the value for you.

Anne
2009-01-05, 09:05
Hmm, dont know. When I scroll to a song with the remote, go right, and then down I get artist, year, file size etc., and gain, for instance -10,7 db.
Isnt it tagged then?
Everything is ripped with ITunes, in Apple Lossless.

GlenL
2009-01-05, 10:58
Have you set the player to use smart/track/reply gain ?

If not, you will need to go into the web interface ...Settings Button - Players menu ... Audio settings .. Volume Adjustment/replay Gain option.

Anne
2009-01-05, 13:27
Yes, I tried that, dont really notice a big difference....

badbob
2009-01-05, 17:11
Then you need to scan your music, it'll take a while. Load up foobar, add all your music, select all, right click, click on replaygain scan as albums, leave it a while then click on update. You may need to re-scan your music in slimserver.

Anne
2009-01-06, 09:20
So, I need to download Foobar, transfer the music to that, replay gain scan etc., but, what then happens to the library in ITunes where SqueezeCenter get the music from? Are the replay tags automatically transferred to the files in ITunes?

Apesbrain
2009-01-06, 10:45
You're not moving your files, just applying proper ReplayGain tags to them.

1. Install foobar2000 from www.foobar2000.org, launch it and accept the default layout
2. Find your iTunes music library folder and drag it onto foobar's window (if you want, just drag a few albums that you've heard big volume differences between)
3. Select all tracks in foobar
4. Right-click on selected tracks and choose: ReplayGain > Scan Selection as Albums (either "Folders" or "Tags" is ok as long as your albums are in individual folders, e.g. "Eric Clapton\461 Ocean Boulevard")
5. foobar will take some time to analyze the tracks and when finished will ask if you want to commit the RG values to the files; say that you do
6. Run a full library rescan in SqueezeCenter
7. For kicks, run a rescan in iTunes if that is possible (I don't use it).

Set SqueezeCenter to use "SmartGain" and you should be set. If you only did a portion of your library, don't forget to do the same to the remainder.

Mark Lanctot
2009-01-06, 12:05
1. Install foobar2000 from www.foobar.org

That should be http://www.foobar2000.org/ - the above one points to yet another blogger. :-)

Anne
2009-01-06, 12:07
Ah, excellent.
Is it possible to choose a gain setting that is then the reference for all music?
Lets say, I have Dire Straits "On Every Street", which is really punchy with good volume, and this is shown as -10,5db i ITunes.....just a thought, because I really cant relate to the gain settings in ITunes, it seems to not make sense.
I would assume -3,4db should be louder sounding than -10,5 but it doesnt seem to be so. I have Eric Clapton "Slowhand", and that is -3,4db, and its very very low in volume.

Mark Lanctot
2009-01-06, 12:12
Is it possible to choose a gain setting that is then the reference for all music?

Unfortunately the only program I've seen where the reference volume can be changed is MP3Gain, which only works with MP3s as the name implies.

All other programs seem to be fixed at 89 dB, though foobar lets you manually edit the RG data (not the reference though).

badbob
2009-01-06, 15:36
Just play your music in smart gain, works fine all music is the same- one a single album it's kept to one level, but in random it reads in track gain.

Does itunes support replygain? I would recommend always using replygain over a destructive gain to the file.

Nonreality
2009-01-07, 00:56
Just play your music in smart gain, works fine all music is the same- one a single album it's kept to one level, but in random it reads in track gain.

Does itunes support replygain? I would recommend always using replygain over a destructive gain to the file.

Itunes uses soundcheck, their own version of replay gain. Not as good but works ok for ipods.

radish
2009-01-07, 08:26
Ah, excellent.
Is it possible to choose a gain setting that is then the reference for all music?
Lets say, I have Dire Straits "On Every Street", which is really punchy with good volume, and this is shown as -10,5db i ITunes.....just a thought, because I really cant relate to the gain settings in ITunes, it seems to not make sense.
I would assume -3,4db should be louder sounding than -10,5 but it doesnt seem to be so. I have Eric Clapton "Slowhand", and that is -3,4db, and its very very low in volume.

If the iTunes tags are like RG then the value stored isn't the level for the file, it's the required adjustment to get to the baseline. So if the baseline is 89dB then the measured loudness for the Dire Straits track must have been 100.5dB, louder than Clapton's at 92.4dB. If you switch auto gain on, they should end up sounding the same.

Anne
2009-01-07, 13:06
Ah, I see....
I had the "adjust sound to the same level", or something like that, ticked in ITunes, but it didnt seem to help. Will try it again.

mariowing
2009-01-07, 15:08
iTunes stores the values in it's own tags so my quess is that does tag's won't be read from Squeezecenter. Anyone who can confirm this?

Unfortunately this means you have to have two sets of gain-values; one in iTunes and another one embedded in the "standard" tags. To make these tags you must use a program like foobar2000 or MusicMonkey.

The gain-values for iTunes is often "crazy", tonight I actually found a program that creates new gainvalues for iTunes, it is called iVolume. Unfortunately it has no options for adding the gainvalues as "standard" tags, only the iTunes specific tags are updated. But from my limited testing it improves the gainvalues very much for iTunes/iPod use.

EDIT: It seems that SqueezeCenter DO READ the iTunes tag since I've found some bugreports suggesting that if both values are present in a file SqueezeCenter adds them together (and that the bug is now fixed). So this means that you could use iTunes (or the much better values from iVolume) to make gainvalues and those values should be used by SqueezeCenter (if the option for using gain values is set on the player of course!). For much interesting about gain you could read http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5119#c28

Moonbase
2009-01-07, 21:19
Yep, SC actually reads (iTunes) SoundCheck tags and can use »the Apple way of ReplayGaining«.

What I don’t like is that SC prefers SoundCheck tags over Replay Gain tags if both are present. I think it should be the other way round. (RG being well documented, in wide use, available for more file types, not proprietary and considering that many just generate extra SoundCheck tags to support iPod players that won’t do ReplayGain.)

MrSinatra
2009-01-07, 22:11
Anne,

if you do use foobar to do your RG tags, you might want to read this warning by phil here:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57543

personally, i use winamp to do RG tags, and i think winamp is a lot more user friendly overall, but i'm not sure if what phil talks about regarding foobar's issue also exists in winamp or not? still, i thought u migh like to try winamp... itunes is the devil, i don't trust anything it does, and winamp works with most ipods.

LeifPederson
2009-01-08, 00:05
I had a hard time figuring out just what was happening with the replay gain and SqueezeCenter. I thought there were bugs in the software tools I was using to set gain. I experimented and found out that SC will look at iTunes comments fields to get the volume info and then somehow add on to that the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN tags as well. So if both were negative values, the volume could be VERY quiet.

I use MP3Tag and I added columns to display the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN field and the iTunes comment fields (forgot what the actual field name is). I added replay gain tags by using foobar2000. I have a combination of MP3's and FLAC files, and this tool works well for me (18,000+ tracks and growing).

Once I figured out that SC somehow combined iTunes gain with the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN tag, I sorted my huge collection of tracks by the comment field that iTunes uses and then deleted ALL the iTunes comments. I don't trust iTunes to do the right thing and I am fine with separating out my iTunes library from my Transporter/SC library.

This behavior and experimenting was done about a year ago so it might be the case that SC has since been fixed. IMHO, SC should utilize ONLY the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN tags for replay gain if they exist, and if not, then use ONLY the iTunes volume check information. But under no circumstances should it use both.

If you need help trying to figure all this out or to duplicate my earlier experiments, I'd be happy to help out.

Leif

Mark Lanctot
2009-01-08, 11:18
I had a hard time figuring out just what was happening with the replay gain and SqueezeCenter. I thought there were bugs in the software tools I was using to set gain. I experimented and found out that SC will look at iTunes comments fields to get the volume info and then somehow add on to that the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN tags as well. So if both were negative values, the volume could be VERY quiet.

I use MP3Tag and I added columns to display the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN field and the iTunes comment fields (forgot what the actual field name is). I added replay gain tags by using foobar2000. I have a combination of MP3's and FLAC files, and this tool works well for me (18,000+ tracks and growing).

Once I figured out that SC somehow combined iTunes gain with the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN tag, I sorted my huge collection of tracks by the comment field that iTunes uses and then deleted ALL the iTunes comments. I don't trust iTunes to do the right thing and I am fine with separating out my iTunes library from my Transporter/SC library.

This behavior and experimenting was done about a year ago so it might be the case that SC has since been fixed. IMHO, SC should utilize ONLY the REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN tags for replay gain if they exist, and if not, then use ONLY the iTunes volume check information. But under no circumstances should it use both.

If you need help trying to figure all this out or to duplicate my earlier experiments, I'd be happy to help out.

Leif

Vote for http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4362

mariowing
2009-01-09, 03:51
The bug with Squeezecenter adding the gain-values from SoundCheck and the "standard" replay gain tag was fixed in version 7.1 according to the changelog (http://svn.slimdevices.com/repos/slim/7.3/trunk/server/Changelog7.html - search for "soundcheck")

But it looks from other posts that if BOTH SoundCheck and replaygain values are available SqueezeCenter uses SoundCheck values and a lot of people don't like that. But for me it's fine since I recently started to use the iVolume program described above so now I have working gain values in iTunes, iPod and Squeeze :-)

Nonreality
2009-01-09, 10:41
The bug with Squeezecenter adding the gain-values from SoundCheck and the "standard" replay gain tag was fixed in version 7.1 according to the changelog (http://svn.slimdevices.com/repos/slim/7.3/trunk/server/Changelog7.html - search for "soundcheck")

But it looks from other posts that if BOTH SoundCheck and replaygain values are available SqueezeCenter uses SoundCheck values and a lot of people don't like that. But for me it's fine since I recently started to use the iVolume program described above so now I have working gain values in iTunes, iPod and Squeeze :-)
I don't see where that has been fixed. It still added them together if you had both tags in 7.1 for me. I haven't tried it in 7.2 and above but haven't seen anything in the change logs that says it's been fixed.

Anne
2009-01-10, 04:47
I think I use SqueezeCenter version 7.0, but where do I see which one it is I have active?

Moonbase
2009-01-10, 07:33
From the WebUI, »Settings« in lower right corner, then select the "Information" tab on the new page.

MrSinatra
2009-01-10, 18:22
Anne,

if ur comfortable doing it, DL a newer SC and install it, it has RG fixes:

http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/latest/7.3/

mariowing
2009-01-11, 12:33
but haven't seen anything in the change logs that says it's been fixed.

As I've said, search the release notes for SoundCheck (which is "Apple-speak" for replay gain). Click on the bug# and read on.

For your convenience here is the direct link to the bugreport so you can skip the searching and just do the reading :-) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6890