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View Full Version : Player stops to re-buffer .. constantly



stevebla
2008-12-10, 05:02
My SB Duet player stops playing at intervals of a few minutes, and the controller displays a message about re-buffering. Then it usually continues from where it stopped, but sometimes restarts from the beginning, and sometimes doesnt restart playing at all, although you can still see the elapsed minutes ticking off as though it was. In that case I need to press the button to get it to play.

It seems to be worse with apple lossless tracks than with internet radio.

I am running version 7.3 - 24231.

This has been happening constantly and the system is virtually unusable for playing anything but internet radio.

Has anybody found a solution to this?

Siduhe
2008-12-10, 05:29
Is the Duet connected wirelessly to your server? If so, your problem is almost certain to be related to poor wireless connectivity - the symptoms you describe sound very much like it. What is your wireless signal strength on the player?

There is some good info in the wiki as to how to improve your connectivity - http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/NetworkProblemsSecondGuide. Things like changing the router channel and raising your router up off the floor or away from other electrical equipment can make a real difference.

pnharrison
2008-12-10, 07:48
Further to the good advice above; Is the computer running Squeezecenter wired or wireless? Ideally this should be wired to your router for best performance.

stevebla
2008-12-13, 07:41
The Squeezebox duet system may not work reliably with a wireless network and high bitrate streaming, e.g. lossless, depending on the quality of the wireless network. A setup that works well for internet access and low bitrate streaming may become unreliable with high bitrate streaming.
In addition to the positioning of the four nodes (router, computer, receiver and controller), the quality of the router is apparently important.

After weeks of frustration and disillusionment with the system due to constant re-buffering, i.e. music stops regularly, I replaced my not old but cheap D-Link with a fancier D-Link machine (655). Based on a day of use, the re-buffering is a thing of the past and a whole CD will play without interruption.
One thing the 655 does that is probably a big factor is it changes channels automatically in an effort to avoid interference from neighbour networks. It automatically changed the channel from 3 to 1 to 6 in a period of an hour or so at a time when there were a lot of other networks visible .. but the music continued to play without a hitch!

Notwithstanding the above, I still believe the following ...

Of course there are limitations to wireless networking that Logitech has no control over, but couldn't it be fixed with a larger buffer in the player?
A buffer is just RAM and you could easily have enough in a box the size of the SB receiver to buffer a whole CD .. at no great cost.
Can the existing receivers be modded to increase the buffer size?

My other general conclusion, based a couple of months experience with the duet, extensive reading of these forums, and also my occupation as a computer programmer, is that there is a woeful lack of qa at Logitech. There are just too many bugs.
I love the concept .. for the time being however the execution needs some work.

RichNY
2008-12-13, 08:38
Clearly the Squeezebox duet system does not work reliably with a wireless network and high bitrate streaming, e.g. lossless. ...
Can the existing receivers be modded to increase the buffer size?

My other general conclusion, ... is that there is a woeful lack of qa at Logitech. There are just too many bugs.
I love the concept .. for the time being however the execution stinks.

Truer words have not been said - but anyway...
For the last week I cant play any music without rebuffering.
Right now I'm trying to play mp3's from my WIRED player and it constantly is rebuffering. I NEVER had rebuffering before the server/firmware/whatever upgrades(??) that have recently occurred.

In addition I get the msg occassionally to start doing an upgrade using the original RF remote - and of course I have no such remote as I have a Duet.
Where is the QA here???

Siduhe
2008-12-13, 08:50
Steve - sorry to hear you are still having problems. First, I should say that I can consistently stream FLAC and WAV to my Duet (2 wireless hops in my case), so it does work. However, I agree that the wireless signal strength is consistently not as good as other SD products, like the Classic and the Boom (I have one of every product save for the original SLIMP). Whether this is a chip issue or a physical anntenna configuration, I don't know.

There are quite a few threads about making the next generation of devices less "slim" i.e. larger buffer, more functionality when SC is off etc. Appreciate that doesn't help your immediate issue, but it's something that the designers are aware of and may well take on board in future.

You sound pretty knowledgeable about networking, so I guess you've tried things like changing the wireless channel and raising the player up a bit? What router are you using btw - there are a couple of specific routers which do not play well with the Duet unless they are running the latest firmware.

RichNY - your issues sounds quite different - you sound like you are running a different player (not the Duet) if you're getting an upgrade message? What hardware, what OS and what version of Squeezecenter? Rebuffering on a wired player would have to be a server-side issue or perhaps a faulty unit. If you give us a few more details, people here will be happy to try and help you track down the issue.

RichNY
2008-12-13, 09:14
Steve - sorry to hear you are still having problems. First, I should say that I can consistently stream FLAC and WAV to my Duet (2 wireless hops in my case), so it does work. However, I agree that the wireless signal strength is consistently not as good as other SD products, like the Classic and the Boom (I have one of every product save for the original SLIMP). Whether this is a chip issue or a physical anntenna configuration, I don't know.

There are quite a few threads about making the next generation of devices less "slim" i.e. larger buffer, more functionality when SC is off etc. Appreciate that doesn't help your immediate issue, but it's something that the designers are aware of and may well take on board in future.

You sound pretty knowledgeable about networking, so I guess you've tried things like changing the wireless channel and raising the player up a bit? What router are you using btw - there are a couple of specific routers which do not play well with the Duet unless they are running the latest firmware.

RichNY - your issues sounds quite different - you sound like you are running a different player (not the Duet) if you're getting an upgrade message? What hardware, what OS and what version of Squeezecenter? Rebuffering on a wired player would have to be a server-side issue or perhaps a faulty unit. If you give us a few more details, people here will be happy to try and help you track down the issue.

Thx:
Uuum.... I was just coming back to the group to delete my msg. It turned out that I was connected wirelessly (at least I'm honest) - as I've reconfigd this countless times and this time it had connected wirelessly. I'm doing some more troubleshooting right now, but suffice to say I do have a duet with the releaes client of 8.3 on a 2k box and the 8.3release client on a whs box.
I have an Actiontec Verizon Fios wireless router from which I've run cat5 to a Linksys workgroup switch.

stevebla
2008-12-13, 09:36
It definitely does work sometimes .. it worked consistently for me for a while and still does intermittently .. such as last night I was able to listen to most of a CD.

My theory is that interference from neighbour's networks has picked up in the last few weeks .. possibly related to the end of outdoor weather and people being inside more and surfing the internet etc.

I have tried many different placements of the router and fashioned a small foil reflector to try and focus the beam (seemed to help a bit).

My router is D-Link WBR-1310.

stevebla
2008-12-13, 09:39
.. and I really dont have any options for changing channels .. the strongest neighbouring channels cover them all .. in fact I am using 1 and there are no other strong ch 1's around according to WirelessMon

yesongs
2008-12-13, 15:12
Thx:
I have an Actiontec Verizon Fios wireless router

I do as well and was just as frustrated as you guys were

I bought a Duet that worked intermittently, then an additional reciever that I expected to return if I couldn't get it working

What, (knock on wood), has fixed my issues on both my living room and upstairs bedroom systems, (Router is a floor below the living room, two below the bedroom in my basement), is finding a sweet spot on the floor for the recievers.

I now have the bedroom one under my subwofer and the living room one below my TV's rack - both have been rock solid since I found these sweet spots, apparently these work better placed on the floor in some instances

Both rooms have hardwood floors

I would try and find an enclosed spot down low - it really has worked for me

E

Siduhe
2008-12-13, 15:25
Steve, guessing that your router firmware is up to date?

Also, guessing that you would consider transcoding to lossy an unacceptable compromise? You might want to try transcoding your files as a temporary solution while you try to sort this out - at least it will give you music!

Apologies if you've already said, but what OS are you running - Mac presumably? I'm not familiar with WirelessMon but does it show you relative S/N ratios on each channel you try? If you can download something like NetStumbler and try different channels and look at this - you may be surprised which ones work best. When I look at the other networks near me, 6 should be my best (no other networks on it and least overlapping networks) but actually I get a much better signal on 2.

Finally, and apols if this is grandmother sucking eggs, but have you switched off mixed mode on the router settings so it runs as G only?

You may find a pre-N or Rangemax equivalent router works better for you with the Duet - but appreciate there's an investment involved with that. You could also try moving the Duet - maybe put it on its side for a test run?

Siduhe
2008-12-13, 15:34
Thx:
Uuum.... I was just coming back to the group to delete my msg. It turned out that I was connected wirelessly (at least I'm honest) - as I've reconfigd this countless times and this time it had connected wirelessly. I'm doing some more troubleshooting right now, but suffice to say I do have a duet with the releaes client of 8.3 on a 2k box and the 8.3release client on a whs box.
I have an Actiontec Verizon Fios wireless router from which I've run cat5 to a Linksys workgroup switch.

RichNY - sorry - missed your earlier post, as I read via email. What is the 8.3 client? Do you mean 7.3? Can you describe where you see the upgrade message - on the Controller (that would be quite normal, when a new version of the Controller firmware is pushed out)? The rebuffering though is odd behaviour if you still see it when you are running wired. If you still see this, post back and let us know.

stevebla
2008-12-13, 18:18
siduhe,
Thanks for the suggestions .. actually there were a couple of eggs this grandmother hadn't tried sucking.
However I went out today and got myself an early Christmas present in the shape of a D-Link 655.
It is too soon to tell if it solves the problem .. but looks promising so far.
Cheers,
Steve

El Syd
2009-01-05, 06:03
I also have the same issue with the music track stopping during payback to rebuffer.

The issue started following an upgrade to 7.3.1. The Sqqueezebox is connected wirelessly.

The system used to work fine on 7.1 and 7.2 releases.

JimSB
2010-10-01, 03:23
Since moving house I had constant prolems with my SB Duet rebuffering. It would do it about every 10 seconds anad I was ready to throw the thing out the window. I spoke to my ISP and they suggested changing the channel of my wireless connection and gave me instructions on how to do this. It is something that is probably specific to each ISP. Anyway I successfully chaged from the default channel 1 to channel 2 and my SB has been faultless - several days of 12 hours continuous playing without a single dropout or rebuffer. Obviously everyone in the neighbourhood was on the same channel but I can't believe the difference.