PDA

View Full Version : Controller or alternative (iPod touch/iPhone)?



jazztime
2008-11-23, 03:23
I'm planning to buy some remote solution for my one Transporter and two Squeezeboxes setup. But I'm uncertain if I should buy the Controller or a iPod touch (or Iphone) with some of the iPeng, iSqueeze/Squeemote, Squidgy software. The Controller i 370$ and the iPod touch (8gb) is 270$ (I'm in Denmark). The large touch-screen on the touch looks very nice and it is cheaper, but:
- how is speed / responsiveness?
- what solution is more stable?
- how is the life of the battery?
- what solution is the most easy to scroll through artists / find an artist in a large music-collection?
- what solution can be customised the most? (now and in the future)
- can Custombrowse be used on the Itouch?
- will there be any differences using iPeng, Squidgy on the touch compared to iPhone?
- other important differences?

I have read about the Controller and the iPeng, Squidgy in the forums but havn't found much/any comparisons. Any thoughts is welcome!

amcluesent
2008-11-23, 03:26
Only Squidgy is publicly available; I doubt the beta-testers for the other apps will comment until released on the AppStore.

As of now, I find the Controller with CustomBrowse a much more useful remote. Squidgy simply can't cope with the number of albums in my library.

mattybain
2008-11-23, 03:35
I'm planning to buy some remote solution for my one Transporter and two Squeezeboxes setup. But I'm uncertain if I should buy the Controller or a iPod touch (or Iphone) with some of the iPeng, iSqueeze/Squeemote, Squidgy software. The Controller i 370$ and the iPod touch (8gb) is 270$ (I'm in Denmark). The large touch-screen on the touch looks very nice and it is cheaper, but:
- how is speed / responsiveness?
- what solution is more stable?
- how is the life of the battery?
- what solution is the most easy to scroll through artists / find an artist in a large music-collection?
- what solution can be customised the most? (now and in the future)
- can Custombrowse be used on the Itouch?
- will there be any differences using iPeng, Squidgy on the touch compared to iPhone?
- other important differences?

I have read about the Controller and the iPeng, Squidgy in the forums but havn't found much/any comparisons. Any thoughts is welcome!

$370 for 1 controller, are you sure? that sounds very expensive, I didn't pay that much for my Duet here in the UK.

I have 2 controllers and 1 iPhone and have been on the beta test for iSqueeze (Squeemote).

To be honest I have been frustrated with the controllers, the wifi reception is poor and they always seem to lose their connection to the server. Also I find the wheel inferior to using the touchscreen.

Using my iPhone is a real joy, it's quick responsive and squeemote (and I guess iPeng) is designed like the iPod player so is real easy to use.

Somethings are missing from Squeemote such as a random playlist option, access to LastFM but I believe Luke has added (is adding?) these to the final release. The application is also prone to crashing occasionally but it doesn't take long to reload.

For me if those prices are correct it is a no brainer, the iTouch (or iPhone) is definitely the way to go.

Nonreality
2008-11-23, 05:00
$370 for 1 controller, are you sure? that sounds very expensive, I didn't pay that much for my Duet here in the UK.

I have 2 controllers and 1 iPhone and have been on the beta test for iSqueeze (Squeemote).

To be honest I have been frustrated with the controllers, the wifi reception is poor and they always seem to lose their connection to the server. Also I find the wheel inferior to using the touchscreen.

Using my iPhone is a real joy, it's quick responsive and squeemote (and I guess iPeng) is designed like the iPod player so is real easy to use.

Somethings are missing from Squeemote such as a random playlist option, access to LastFM but I believe Luke has added (is adding?) these to the final release. The application is also prone to crashing occasionally but it doesn't take long to reload.

For me if those prices are correct it is a no brainer, the iTouch (or iPhone) is definitely the way to go.

I'm looking forward to trying both the new ipeng and the squeezemote on my son's touch as he is kind enough to let me use it at night. He's 16 and part of the loan for it was that I get to use it for the SB3. :) I hope they hurry up and approve them before he cuts me off. :(

ddewey
2008-11-23, 08:18
Quoting jazztime (jazztime.3jbpzn1227435901 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com):

>
> I'm planning to buy some remote solution for my one Transporter and two
> Squeezeboxes setup. But I'm uncertain if I should buy the Controller or
> a iPod touch (or Iphone) with some of the iPeng, iSqueeze/Squeemote,
> Squidgy software. The Controller i 370$ and the iPod touch (8gb) is
> 270$ (I'm in Denmark). The large touch-screen on the touch looks very
> nice and it is cheaper, but:

Squidgy is nice, fast and responsive. Can't wait for iPeng.

I have a Controller and a couple of iPhones-my opinion after using
both is that the iPhone(touch) is a great 'personal' remote that is
likely to always be with you, but for a multi-person household
having a 'traditional' remote like the Controller laying around to
be picked up and used is extremely convenient.

I spent a large chunk of time listening yesterday while working on
some computer issues, with both my iPhone and Controller next to me.
Every time, it was more convenient to pick up the Controller to make
a quick change to what was playing - fast forward, check the song
title etc.

My two cents.

dd

DeVerm
2008-11-23, 08:37
I spent a large chunk of time listening yesterday while working on some computer issues, with both my iPhone and Controller next to me. Every time, it was more convenient to pick up the Controller to make
a quick change to what was playing - fast forward, check the song
title etc.

Indeed, looking at this somewhat objective the controller is better. The iPod Touch I use does have more gadget-impact because it can do so much more than the controller and I think that this is a big reason for many posters here to prefer it... doesn't mean it's more practical for controlling SC.

Other poster are just very enthousiastic about one of the applications which colors comparisons and I think a number don't even have the controller ;-)

My advise would be to get both! oh... and the iTouch apps must have a party mode!

ciao!
Nick.

pippin
2008-11-23, 09:37
You are right, it depends on what you want to do.
The controller is better for quickly making simple changes (pause, skip) while the iPhone apps are better for browsing and selecting content and managing your playlist.
At least iPeng is much, much better as soon as you need to control more than one player.
Just my 2cts.

JJZolx
2008-11-23, 10:14
The controller is better for quickly making simple changes (pause, skip)

Why is that? Because of the dedicated buttons? Couldn't this be addressed in the iApplication by having a quickly accessible screen with a similar set of control buttons? And maybe an option to use this screen as a screensaver, so that when the iPhone/Touch is sitting idle, the screen comes up, allowing a user to quickly make simple changes.

pippin
2008-11-23, 10:56
Why is that? Because of the dedicated buttons? Couldn't this be addressed in the iApplication by having a quickly accessible screen with a similar set of control buttons? And maybe an option to use this screen as a screensaver, so that when the iPhone/Touch is sitting idle, the screen comes up, allowing a user to quickly make simple changes.
I'm checking some options. But most of the available ones (like using the hardware buttons) are forbidden by apple.
And Apple IS picky on UI stuff, I can tell you!
On iPeng, once you disable the screen saver any player control is one click away at max.

Steve Agnew
2008-11-23, 12:28
I'm finding the iPod Touchscreen perfect for browsing through albums & artists.

If you had a small music library then the scroll wheel on the SBC would be OK but it is unusable with a large collection - we went back to the standard remote with it's number/alpha keys just because of this. Having an "alphabet" scrollbar on the iPod touchscreen makes this very easy to use.

The horizontal album cover display on the iPod looks OK but it doesn't have an "alphabet" scrollbar so it is hard to navigate.

I think the combination of the standard remote (long battery life, one-click for most functions) and an iPod Touch remote (easy navigation, searching, visual display) is pretty compelling. I have two controllers but I can't see them getting much use.

Regards, Steve.

Lesu
2008-11-23, 12:57
I took my iPod controller on holiday, watched a couple of films on the plane, listened to my song collection on the rented house's music centre, hooked onto a free WiFi connection at a local coffee bar and then listened to some more songs on the flight back. Got home and sat down, selected one of my play lists and turned on some relaxing music, all courtesy of the one device.
I guess if you have the cash then you can splash out on 2 devices, but I'll stick to one with the widest possible use.

DeVerm
2008-11-23, 13:55
I took my iPod controller on holiday, watched a couple of films on the plane, listened to my song collection on the rented house's music centre, hooked onto a free WiFi connection at a local coffee bar and then listened to some more songs on the flight back. Got home and sat down, selected one of my play lists and turned on some relaxing music, all courtesy of the one device.
I guess if you have the cash then you can splash out on 2 devices, but I'll stick to one with the widest possible use.

Exactly what I mean, the iTouch/iPhone is great for doing all with just one tiny gadget. While traveling I also need my pocketPC for it's Skype software (find wifi and you can call, no matter where you are!) and this is really something that would make the final killer app for the iPod.

Remember the "datapads" in Star Trek... like the Voyager series. I think the iTouch can do that and more and is smaller. The iPhone adds the communicator function. Progress!

But.... with the SBC I can do most things without looking at it. Remember that it's very new too and will improve it's functionality with further upgrades. I'm just thinking about a great solution for the big library/scrollwheel issue and will start a thread about it ;-)

cheers,
Nick.

vitoruch
2008-11-24, 10:27
I'm planning to buy some remote solution for my one Transporter and two Squeezeboxes setup. But I'm uncertain if I should buy the Controller or a iPod touch (or Iphone) with some of the iPeng, iSqueeze/Squeemote, Squidgy software.


I would definitely bet on an ipod touch/iphone native solution - specially iPeng - that has already run a large path in developement , pretty well integrated to SC community, since it´s firt safari´s version a long time ago.

Even with dedicated buttons, Logitech´s controller is tooo expansive, in my opinion, for one single purpose.

And a native appl (any of them) should respond far way better than a browser one - so, if you were already kinda happy with ipeng for safari, it´s native version should be an enormous upgrade, undoubtably.

Vitor

jazztime
2008-11-24, 23:47
Thank you for all the good comments, suggestions and recomendations! What is most imortant to me is:

- Stability and responsiveness. Some reports that the controller often loose network. Is this an issue with iTouch? On the other hand some reports, that native iTouch solutions some times crash/needs reboot. Is this an issue with the controller?

- Easy access to my large music collection (I'm using the alpha keys on the standard remote a lot). It seems that iTouch is easier for accessing large music collection (which makes sense to me) but not as convinient for making simple changes as the controller.


As of now, I find the Controller with CustomBrowse a much more useful remote. Squidgy simply can't cope with the number of albums in my library.

Why can Squidgy not cope wiht large collections? Also, is it possible to use custombrowse on any of the iTouch native solutions?

- Battery life. Is battery life better on the Controller or iTouch 2G (using wifi)?

Can both of the solution do WakeOnLan?

It's a tough choice (cannot by both of them). The iTouch is cheaper and seems very nice to me, but I do not plan using it for other things than as remote for the Transporter (except perhaps browsing sites like allmusic.com). So perhaps the controller as a dedicated remote might be a better choice............



$370 for 1 controller, are you sure? that sounds very expensive, I didn't pay that much for my Duet here in the UK.
Oh yes - that's the price in Denmark. Saw it on ebay.co.uk for 165£, which is of course less than in Denmark, but if I get any warranty-issues...........

socistep
2008-11-25, 04:40
I have been debating the usage of my controller v. iPhone recently.

I have a Duet as the main system in the living room, I've recently purchased a boom which I plan to use in the Bedroom mainly (the boom is in the post)

I've downloaded the Squidgy app and plan to purchase the other two apps to decide which is best, so far I have been impressed with this type of this app and using the iPhone functionality for controlling my SB kit.

In terms of pro's and con's to date -

iPhone

Pro's
- Ease of use
- Better browsing, searching and display
- Ability to have another controller for a cheap price

Con's
- Software updates (e.g. to enable headphone playback)
- No Squeezenetwork control (I listen to this a lot when laptop off)
- Screen saver issue - Losing connection when screen saver comes on, I use this a lot to protect battery life and password protect for data

Controller

Pro's
- Instant software enhancement
- Future ability to listen to music from controller (big plus IMO)
- Standalone - e.g. no impact from other apps such as phone ringing or checking email etc.
- Controls Squeezenetwork

Con's
- Look, feel & user interaction not as good
- Connectivity issues from time to time

My current view

What I will probably do is use the controller in the living room as the main unit, the iPhone will come into play mainly to control the boom as I always have my phone charging by the bed

The main restriction I see with the iPhone though is not being able to control Squeezenetwork, with that in mind I will probably have to progress my plans to have a dedicated server for my music...



Thank you for all the good comments, suggestions and recomendations! What is most imortant to me is:

- Stability and responsiveness. Some reports that the controller often loose network. Is this an issue with iTouch? On the other hand some reports, that native iTouch solutions some times crash/needs reboot. Is this an issue with the controller?

- Easy access to my large music collection (I'm using the alpha keys on the standard remote a lot). It seems that iTouch is easier for accessing large music collection (which makes sense to me) but not as convinient for making simple changes as the controller.



Why can Squidgy not cope wiht large collections? Also, is it possible to use custombrowse on any of the iTouch native solutions?

- Battery life. Is battery life better on the Controller or iTouch 2G (using wifi)?

Can both of the solution do WakeOnLan?

It's a tough choice (cannot by both of them). The iTouch is cheaper and seems very nice to me, but I do not plan using it for other things than as remote for the Transporter (except perhaps browsing sites like allmusic.com). So perhaps the controller as a dedicated remote might be a better choice............



Oh yes - that's the price in Denmark. Saw it on ebay.co.uk for 165£, which is of course less than in Denmark, but if I get any warranty-issues...........

slimkid
2008-11-25, 09:26
I'm pretty sure that player on the squeezenetwork can be web controlled, so iTouch should be able to do it.

K

pippin
2008-11-25, 09:33
I'm pretty sure that player on the squeezenetwork can be web controlled, so iTouch should be able to do it.

K

No, it can only be web controlled through SN.

slimkid
2008-11-25, 11:48
No, it can only be web controlled through SN.
That's what I'm saying. One can control SN playback through iTouch. All it takes is to log on to one's account on SN using Safari.

K

pippin
2008-11-25, 12:41
That's what I'm saying. One can control SN playback through iTouch. All it takes is to log on to one's account on SN using Safari.

K

Ah, sorry, misunderstood that.

amcluesent
2008-11-26, 06:24
The Controller is superior to iPeng and Squidgy IMHO.

Usability, speed and customisation need for classical collections are superior at the moment. Not to say that the apps can't/won't improve.

pippin
2008-11-26, 06:44
The Controller is superior to iPeng and Squidgy IMHO.

Usability, speed and customisation need for classical collections are superior at the moment. Not to say that the apps can't/won't improve.

Can you elaborate?
Especially on "usability" and "speed"?

m1abrams
2008-11-26, 07:04
Can you elaborate?
Especially on "usability" and "speed"?

First NOTE: I do not have a controller so can not compare usability or speed.

However I have iPeng and can not see how the controller could be any faster, even if it was not sure that would really matter because iPeng on my touch is pretty damn fast.

slimkid
2008-11-26, 07:31
Ah, sorry, misunderstood that.

I might have misunderstood that the OP was referring to the general use of iTouch, rather than to the use of native applications on it. In which case sorry for the confusion.

k

ch1525
2008-11-26, 15:49
Usability, speed and customisation need for classical collections are superior at the moment. Not to say that the apps can't/won't improve.

I think he might be thinking along the same lines as I am in what I posted on the other thread about Classical collections. These are always the most difficult types of things to handle.

amcluesent
2008-11-27, 00:03
>These are always the most difficult types of things to handle.<

Yep, on the Controller I have CustomBrowse menus for -

Artists, filtered to by genres to exclude my 'classical' genres
Albums, filtered as above
Composers, then albums listed by album name
Genres, then albums listed by album name

pippin
2008-11-27, 00:12
>These are always the most difficult types of things to handle.<

Yep, on the Controller I have CustomBrowse menus for -

Artists, filtered to by genres to exclude my 'classical' genres
Albums, filtered as above
Composers, then albums listed by album name
Genres, then albums listed by album name

OK, you use custom browse.
That will be supported by one of the next releases of iPeng (not THE next one, that's mainly about bugfixes).

amcluesent
2008-11-27, 13:35
>OK, you use custom browse.<

Yep. But as to the speed part, the Controller is in my experience far more consistent in speed and smoothness of presenting menus etc. Both Squidgy and iPeng seem to 'halt' processing of touches of the UI for intervals as if blocked awaiting server interaction.

pippin
2008-11-27, 14:22
>OK, you use custom browse.<

Yep. But as to the speed part, the Controller is in my experience far more consistent in speed and smoothness of presenting menus etc. Both Squidgy and iPeng seem to 'halt' processing of touches of the UI for intervals as if blocked awaiting server interaction.

Yep. Especially during the three minutes it takes you to scroll through a long list to get to the album you are looking for - on the controller...

And the two minutesyou need to crawl through menus to get from one player to the other...

jazztime
2008-11-30, 06:01
Thanks again for alle the comments. Yesterday I bought an iPod touch 8GB and the iPeng native application. And I must say - this is exactly what I have been looking for:
- the responsiveness is superb, very fast and it seems also very stable (not yet loosing network connection or crashing)
- access to large music collection have never been more easy. As I have never tried the controller, I don't know what I'm missing, but for me beeing able to use alpha keys is essintial for browsing and searching. And the large screen is very very nice!

iPeng is not perfect yet (but close to!). I will post my comments/requests in the other thread.

morsejeff
2008-12-04, 08:33
Question...I understand that you can use the iTouch/iPhone as a controller for Squeezecenter, but can you use it as player. In other words, can I use iPeng or Squidgy to stream music and listen through the headphone jack of the iTouch/iPhone? The reason I'm asking is I understand as of Squeezecenter 7.3 the Duet controller will have the functionality. I've been on the fence regarding which way to go (SBC or iTouch) and I'm trying to make a decision before 12/8 when the rebate with Amazon for the SB Duet expires.

garym
2008-12-04, 09:11
Currently, the IPeng iphone app does NOT allow playing through the iphone headphone jack. Not sure if this is planned. I can say that as a controller, I've very much enjoyed using the IPeng app on my iphone.

exile
2008-12-04, 12:04
my 2 cents-

there's one thing that makes it a no-brainer for me: Does the controller have other applications on it? Can you surf the web, check e-mail, play videos etc.? the multi-use functioning of the itouch made it an easy decision for me over the controller.

pippin
2008-12-04, 12:50
Currently, the IPeng iphone app does NOT allow playing through the iphone headphone jack. Not sure if this is planned. I can say that as a controller, I've very much enjoyed using the IPeng app on my iphone.

Playback is definitely on the roadmap, but I cannot give a firm date for it.

morsejeff
2008-12-04, 13:47
Playback is definitely on the roadmap, but I cannot give a firm date for it.

Good to hear!

morsejeff
2008-12-04, 13:51
my 2 cents-

there's one thing that makes it a no-brainer for me: Does the controller have other applications on it? Can you surf the web, check e-mail, play videos etc.? the multi-use functioning of the itouch made it an easy decision for me over the controller.

Good points!

morsejeff
2008-12-05, 08:14
Another question....If I purchase the Duet (w/out the controller) will I be able to do the initial setup of the receiver using an iTouch and iPeng or Squidgy? Or will I have to use the method listed in the following link?

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43722&highlight=network+configuration

m1abrams
2008-12-05, 08:38
Another question....If I purchase the Duet (w/out the controller) will I be able to do the initial setup of the receiver using an iTouch and iPeng or Squidgy? Or will I have to use the method listed in the following link?

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43722&highlight=network+configuration

I would assume you cannot use iPeng to do the inital setup because during this initial setup the Controller actually does an adhoc direct wireless connection to the receiver which the ipod/iphone does not do.

pippin
2008-12-05, 08:44
Another question....If I purchase the Duet (w/out the controller) will I be able to do the initial setup of the receiver using an iTouch and iPeng or Squidgy? Or will I have to use the method listed in the following link?

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43722&highlight=network+configuration

Yes, m1abrams is right, you have to use the Net-UDAP tool.

morsejeff
2008-12-14, 19:21
One more question....If I use the iPod Touch and the iPeng or Squidgy plugins are there any compatibility issues with my music files that are encoded in FLAC format?

pippin
2008-12-15, 00:13
One more question....If I use the iPod Touch and the iPeng or Squidgy plugins are there any compatibility issues with my music files that are encoded in FLAC format?

iPeng 1.0.x and Squidgy are iPhone (and iPod touch) applications available through the App Store. Both currently only work as a remote control. As a remote control, both of course have no trouble with flac.
The (older, free) iPeng 0.5.3 is a PLUGIN for SqueezeCenter, that provides a web skin for the iPod/iPhone which DOES have some playback on the device. But that does NOT work with flac, but only with mp3 and aac.

morsejeff
2008-12-15, 07:21
iPeng 1.0.x and Squidgy are iPhone (and iPod touch) applications available through the App Store. Both currently only work as a remote control. As a remote control, both of course have no trouble with flac.
The (older, free) iPeng 0.5.3 is a PLUGIN for SqueezeCenter, that provides a web skin for the iPod/iPhone which DOES have some playback on the device. But that does NOT work with flac, but only with mp3 and aac.

I understand that they are applications and only operate as the remote control. What I don't understand is how iTunes comes into play, since I don't currently have an iPod and have not used iTunes for a few years. But as I thought about this more after I posted last night, I couldn't see any reason why iTunes and Flac would matter, since your application is talking to Squeezecenter, not iTunes. Is that correct?

andynormancx
2008-12-15, 07:25
I understand that they are applications and only operate as the remote control. What I don't understand is how iTunes comes into play, since I don't currently have an iPod and have not used iTunes for a few years. But as I thought about this more after I posted last night, I couldn't see any reason why iTunes and Flac would matter, since your application is talking to Squeezecenter, not iTunes. Is that correct?

The reason that the file format as an issue is because the Touch/iPhone already has support built in for playing back aac and mp3 files. It has no such support for playing back flac files.

The old iPeng plugin has no choice but to use the built in support, so it can only play back mp3 and aac files.

The new native iPeng shouldn't have this restriction, though of course it will have to provide its own flac decoder so it can play back flac files.

pippin
2008-12-15, 07:37
I understand that they are applications and only operate as the remote control. What I don't understand is how iTunes comes into play, since I don't currently have an iPod and have not used iTunes for a few years. But as I thought about this more after I posted last night, I couldn't see any reason why iTunes and Flac would matter, since your application is talking to Squeezecenter, not iTunes. Is that correct?

That is correct.


The reason that the file format as an issue is because the Touch/iPhone already has support built in for playing back aac and mp3 files. It has no such support for playing back flac files.

The old iPeng plugin has no choice but to use the built in support, so it can only play back mp3 and aac files.

The new native iPeng shouldn't have this restriction, though of course it will have to provide its own flac decoder so it can play back flac files.

Yes. That's true. When we do local playback on the iPhone, FLAC (and ALAC) would definitely be things to support. Although it's not yet completely sorted out, how this should happen. I'm not 100% convinced that the audio quality of the iPod is good enough to make a difference vs. transcoded streams, but we'll find out.

morsejeff
2008-12-15, 08:05
I'm not 100% convinced that the audio quality of the iPod is good enough to make a difference vs. transcoded streams, but we'll find out.

You may be right, but many of us have all (or mostly all) of our music encoded in FLAC.

Thanks for clarifying. After about a week of trying to decide which direction to go for a Christmas present, I decided to purchase another SB Classic and also to get the iPod Touch. I'll post my thoughts later once I've downloaded the application and tried it out.

morsejeff
2008-12-15, 08:25
I'm not 100% convinced that the audio quality of the iPod is good enough to make a difference vs. transcoded streams, but we'll find out.

You may be right, but many of us have all (or mostly all) of our music encoded in FLAC.

Thanks for clarifying. After about a week of trying to decide which direction to go for a Christmas present, I decided to purchase another SB Classic and also to get the iPod Touch. I'll post my thoughts later once I've downloaded the application and tried it out.

pippin
2008-12-15, 08:39
You may be right, but many of us have all (or mostly all) of our music encoded in FLAC.


I know, but SqueezeCenter is able to transcode that. So if it doesn't make any difference, quality wise, you can get away with less bandwidth, more buffering and hence longer battery life.

But I think we'll need a test here, although I could bet the flac advantage gets lost somewhere between 192kbps and 320kbps mp3 on an iPod...

morsejeff
2008-12-15, 17:52
I went and picked up a 16GB iPod Touch today and when I got it home I realized that it was a 1st generation Touch. I should have realized it when the price rang up for less than I expected.

Anyway, will the iPeng and/or Squidgy application work on the 1st generation, or do I need the 2nd generation? Also, is there any reason other than the obvious (external speaker, side volume controls, etc) that are critical enough to return this and get the 2nd generation? I primarily bought it for the wifi and to use to control my Squeezeboxes.

pippin
2008-12-15, 18:04
I went and picked up a 16GB iPod Touch today and when I got it home I realized that it was a 1st generation Touch. I should have realized it when the price rang up for less than I expected.

Anyway, will the iPeng and/or Squidgy application work on the 1st generation, or do I need the 2nd generation? Also, is there any reason other than the obvious (external speaker, side volume controls, etc) that are critical enough to return this and get the 2nd generation? I primarily bought it for the wifi and to use to control my Squeezeboxes.

I can answer the first one: It works fine.
I can't answer the second one since I don't have any 2nd gen touches.
Yet I do hope to be able to use the hardware buttons for iPeng one day (no promises being made).

morsejeff
2008-12-15, 22:38
Well, I'm already leaning towards the 2nd generation because it's a hassle to turn the volume down while listening to music.

Anyway, I'd like to try your application before I decide whether to return the Touch or not, but I don't want to have to purchase it twice. Can I transfer iPeng from iTunes to the new player if I've already installed on my current player?

pippin
2008-12-15, 23:52
Well, I'm already leaning towards the 2nd generation because it's a hassle to turn the volume down while listening to music.

Anyway, I'd like to try your application before I decide whether to return the Touch or not, but I don't want to have to purchase it twice. Can I transfer iPeng from iTunes to the new player if I've already installed on my current player?

Yes, the purchase is bound to your iTunes account, not the hardware. You also only have to purchase it once to use it with several devices.
This may be limited to three devices or something like for music, I don't know. It definitely works with three, you may lose one of these if you return your unit.

robroe
2008-12-16, 07:15
The new native iPeng shouldn't have this restriction, though of course it will have to provide its own flac decoder so it can play back flac files.

I'm not sure whether I have understood this correctly, but this would be iPeng connecting to Squeezecenter, pulling down/streaming the actual FLAC file and decoding it on the iPod, rather than doing transcoding on the server?

If it is the first would Apple allow a FLAC decoder in an app? I would have thought if they did there would be a large number of FLAC/Ogg/other players like this by now (maybe there are?). I would have thought Apple would turn this down for the same reason that it turned down podcaster etc claiming that it duplicates functionality on the ipod (well actually just to protect their monopoly, but you know where I'm coming from).

pippin
2008-12-16, 07:54
I'm not sure whether I have understood this correctly, but this would be iPeng connecting to Squeezecenter, pulling down/streaming the actual FLAC file and decoding it on the iPod, rather than doing transcoding on the server?

If it is the first would Apple allow a FLAC decoder in an app? I would have thought if they did there would be a large number of FLAC/Ogg/other players like this by now (maybe there are?). I would have thought Apple would turn this down for the same reason that it turned down podcaster etc claiming that it duplicates functionality on the ipod (well actually just to protect their monopoly, but you know where I'm coming from).

You may have a point there.
The question is not one of "duplicate functionality" but more one of whether there are flac libraries that do not violate Apple's license agreement (that is: that don't require source distribution).

andynormancx
2008-12-16, 10:27
There is at least one iPhone app that decodes flac and ogg, see FStream on the app store.

speedtriple
2008-12-27, 02:55
Yep. Especially during the three minutes it takes you to scroll through a long list to get to the album you are looking for - on the controller...

And the two minutesyou need to crawl through menus to get from one player to the other...

I have the Controller and the iPhone apps.

Above is why I probably will go for Sonos. The Sonos Controller have the "power scroll" feature. Sonos also have iPhone Apps. Problem solved!

pippin
2008-12-27, 05:54
The Sonos Controller have the "power scroll" feature.
How does that work?

speedtriple
2008-12-27, 06:02
"For digital music lovers with large music collections, Sonos has added a feature called "Power Scroll" which is unique to the Sonos Digital Music System. It gives Sonos users a shortcut for scrolling through large music libraries via a "scroll by letter" feature on their Sonos™ Controller. This allows users to easily navigate through their large music libraries to quickly find a specific artist, album or track name."

Enter a store and try it, it is difficult to explain. But if you are looking for i.e. Pink Floyd, you start out your search very fast from "P", and may skip everything before "P".

What I do not like with SBC is the sometimes not precise scroll-wheel, and it takes "forever" to scroll down to what I am looking for. And when SBC understands that I would like to rush through some letters it speeds up scrolling to fast, so I then must scroll way back again....

pippin
2008-12-27, 06:07
But all iPhone apps have that. iPeng even has it for most Internet Radios

speedtriple
2008-12-27, 14:16
But all iPhone apps have that. iPeng even has it for most Internet Radios

Yes, but I was referring to the SBC vs Sonos Controller.

The Apps are very good, and easier to use than the SBC due to scrolling and finding music FAST. iPeng & Squeemote I prefer right now.
I have not tried the Sonos App, but assume its just as easy to use.

86atc250r
2008-12-27, 17:35
Yep. Especially during the three minutes it takes you to scroll through a long list to get to the album you are looking for - on the controller...

And the two minutesyou need to crawl through menus to get from one player to the other...

I'm a bit confused about this comment. I have six players and a reasonably large library.

It takes no more than a second to scroll through all six of my players to find the one I'm wanting to control & a couple seconds to connect to it.

It takes about 3 seconds to scroll from one end of my library to another with the scroll acceleration & letters in the background that show up. It takes a touch longer to hit a letter in the middle due to a tendency to overshoot when scrolling fast, but by no means is it an exorbitant amount of time - maybe 5 to 7 seconds to locate a particular album in my collection from anywhere within the menu - a far cry from three minutes.

FWIW, I see the iPhone apps and the controller as fitting two different needs.

For instance, the iPhone setup is extremely unhandy for our needs as compared to the SBC - why? Because (if I had an iphone) I would have it on *me*, making it handy for me to use, but no one else - that's especially true if I'm not home & the wife wants to listen to music. Also, do you really want to be passing your iphone around to guests at a party?

On the other hand, for *me*, in some cases it would be handier than an SBC because I would have it on me in most places I go --- i.e. downstairs, in the shop, etc. - in places I normally control my units with their IR controllers and only occasionally take the SBC. The advanatage there is I could replace those SB3's with SBR's & save a little quid, the disadvantage being - then *I* would be the only one able to control them without a laptop, so in my situation the advantage is negated.

I saw another comment where someone claimed that the SBC was too expensive for a single purpose device - I disagree. In many cases single purpose devices are much handier than their multi-function counterparts for those, well, single purposes. Also, being a single purpose device, it's much less likely to be being used for one of it's other purposes when I want it to be an SBC.

A Boom is a single purpose device - does that mean a "Chumby" is a better option? After all, it can stream internet radio & the boom is expensive.

The SBC is not expensive at all if you consider what all it does. It gives you easy access to control every device connected to your network, the dedicated buttons are nice, and perhaps one of it's best features - the headphone jack that makes it a portable network streamer *and* an extra "squeezebox" if you will, that you can use anywhere within your wireless network. For instance, you want to listen to music in the kitchen occasionally, but don't want to spring for a SB3 or even a SBR? Then get a set of computer speakers to keep in there and plug the SBC into them whenever you're cooking. Want the same thing for the bathroom? $20 at best buy & you're listening to music in the tub after you get through listening to music in the kitchen.

So - you can control your music anywhere on your network, you have the functionality of a player, you can put it in your pocket and use it as a personal player, etc.

It all depends on your needs. For some, the iPhone app makes sense, for many others, it does not. Also FWIW, I have not experienced any connectivity issues with mine, it pretty much stays connected all the time, in fact, it's been connected all day while I sit here, working on the computer and listening to Pandora :)

pippin
2008-12-27, 19:13
I agree my figures were exaggerated to make a point, they were also made towards someone with a very large library.
But you are missing that very point:

1. I fully agree that the SBC and the iPhone apps have different charcteristics and server different needs. They also have different pros and cons. This has always been my point.

2. Your comment on the iPhone is valid, yet my experience is most people (including myself) don't use iPhones but iPod touches as a remote. They can easily server as a dedicated remote like the SBC and are cheaper.

3. For ME (I have an SBC and obviously an iPod) both have their strength, but I find myself using the SBC very rarely. The main PRINCIPLE advantage of the SBC, IMHO, are it's dedicated buttons that allow immediate volume control and skip when needed.

4. I have a different view on the controller's speed. With MY library I don't find a specific album within 5-7s, it's more like 20-30. Maybe it's my server, my library or my clumsy fingers, but I find stuff MUCH faster with iPeng.

5. Your comment on the players being fast to scroll through misses the point since scrolling through players is not a use case for me. My use case is, that I have four players I use regularly, and often I want to play something on one of them, sync some of them or change volume one one or several of them. All of these activities require extensive climbing up and down a menu hierarchy, and that's typically when I throw the SBC into the next corner and start to use iPeng...

I still think the SBC is a way, way, way better controller than an IR remote and it's better than a PC with the web UI, yet in most cases for ME it's not the best solution.

speedtriple
2008-12-28, 00:38
4. I have a different view on the controller's speed. With MY library I don't find a specific album within 5-7s, it's more like 20-30. Maybe it's my server, my library or my clumsy fingers, but I find stuff MUCH faster with iPeng.


Which is what I mean too. Reason for writing is that I am disappointed with the SBC's scrolling to find music (compared to i.e. the Sonos hardware controller which works better), otherwise it would have been a closer to a 100% great product.

But, the scroll feature on SBC may be improved by the software. I think it would need the accelerated scroll feature tuned a little bit. It should have started the acceleration earlier. I need to turn that wheel too fast before the SBC starts to accelerate the letters.

The iPeng/Squeemote are great in their way. They do need 5-7 seconds to connect, but then it works.
Drawback is that the iPhone/iTouch is a personal item most people do not want to send around. And there might be more system/wlan-connection problems on the Apps compared to the SBC. And all Apps have crashed on me several times (especially Squidgy), which might be considered drawback.
However, the price on the Apps are so low that they should be considered a no-brainer...