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View Full Version : What is an "Album" for Squeezecenter



guptaas
2008-11-13, 21:50
I've been assuming that logically it would be all tracks sharing the album title and album artist fields and not location. That hasn't proved to be true with albums split across folders for me. The album appears as as many albums as the artists (folders) involved. Same thing happens to box sets by a single artist if they are subdivided into a folder each for each CD.

Have tried Mediamonkey and Tag & Rename for retagging these files alongwith all possible combos in Squeezecenter settings for various artists (bands)with full rescans (not update scans) to no avail.

My music is organized by Genre\Artist\Year_Album\Track No_Title with a Folder.jpg in each location. Compilations thus end up split by artist. I find this helpful for various reasons and would like to keep it that way. But while a file is playing, I'd like to keep the flexibility of either navigating to other albums by the same artist or other artists on the same album using the Squeezebox controller. Its also annoying to see multiple entries for a single box set by a single artist.
I'm sure someone has this working right. Would appreciate learning the secret.

aubuti
2008-11-14, 00:58
For box sets, make sure that all tracks have the exact same album tag (i.e., don't include "(disc 1)" in the album name), and fill the DISCNUMBER tag with the correct disc number and they should display and play as one album.

For compilations, the tracks have to be in the same folder. You would still have the flexibility of following other tracks on the album, or other tracks by the artist (by drilling down into track info, and then following the artist branch). But it would mean re-organizing your folder structure.

A good tagging program like mp3tag can help you make these changes.

guptaas
2008-11-14, 02:43
Sorry to belabor the point, but I'm trying to approach this from the very definition of what is an "album"

Your description suggests that that an album is a set of all tracks sharing artist & album fields, irrespective of track location when artist=album-artist. But when artist field has multiple values then an album is a set of tracks from a single folder sharing the album and album-artist fields. You could be right and that may be how the software is set-up but it does seem odd why it was done that way.

Then we still get stumped by box sets of compilations which need to be broken into folders by CD.

The tagging software I've used so far is fairly standard amongst enthusiasts though I do plan to try MP3Tag. I always tag files in groups so that typos or inadvertent space characters cannot create duplicates. Disc numbers are where they belong, not in the album name. The error has to be in my settings of Squeezecenter, my understanding of how it operates or a "clean" rescan not willing to "forget" info from previous scans.

aubuti
2008-11-14, 08:21
Sorry to belabor the point, but I'm trying to approach this from the very definition of what is an "album"

Your description suggests that that an album is a set of all tracks sharing artist & album fields, irrespective of track location when artist=album-artist. But when artist field has multiple values then an album is a set of tracks from a single folder sharing the album and album-artist fields. You could be right and that may be how the software is set-up but it does seem odd why it was done that way.
From my POV, an album is what you buy when you buy a CD or LP. It's a collection of tracks on one or more discs, put together by artist(s) and and/or recording execs who thinks that for some reason they belong together. I said the tracks had to have the same album tag, but never said anything about the artist tag. Obviously there are thousands of compilation albums with multiple artists and no readily identifiable "albumartist".

Album names are non-unique, even in a given year ("Greatest Hits" being only the most extreme example). SC needs to have some way to know which tracks on a multi-artist compilation go together, and which ones don't. Putting tracks from the same album in the same folder accomplishes this. Your folder structure is logical, but so is /artist/album/track (for single-artist albums) and /Various Artists/album/track (for multi-artist albums). That's how SC is set up. If you do it this way you can still have *all* tracks by an artist listed even though some are in the /Various Artists/ branch.


Then we still get stumped by box sets of compilations which need to be broken into folders by CD.
No, they don't. You can put them into different folders, or you can put them all in one folder. If you do the latter then you might want to renumber the tracks so they are one series: 1, 2, ..., n, but you don't have to.


The tagging software I've used so far is fairly standard amongst enthusiasts though I do plan to try MP3Tag. I always tag files in groups so that typos or inadvertent space characters cannot create duplicates. Disc numbers are where they belong, not in the album name. The error has to be in my settings of Squeezecenter, my understanding of how it operates or a "clean" rescan not willing to "forget" info from previous scans.
I don't have SC in front of me right now, but check the settings for "Treat multi-disc albums as a single set" and the settings for Various Artists. I think they're both on the Music Library tab in Settings.

JJZolx
2008-11-14, 12:16
To SqueezeCenter, location (folder/directory) is significant. I think this was a change made to 6.0 or 6.5 to simplify the logic for differentiating between albums with the same name. This has caused some issues for people who'd rather organize their music by artist or some other system, rather than strictly one-album-per-folder.

guptaas
2008-11-14, 15:56
To SqueezeCenter, location (folder/directory) is significant. I think this was a change made to 6.0 or 6.5 to simplify the logic for differentiating between albums with the same name. This has caused some issues for people who'd rather organize their music by artist or some other system, rather than strictly one-album-per-folder.

Thank you for answering my question. I was mistaken in thinking that tags were the only tool used to build the database. A "Various Artist" folder under genre will take care of it.

MrSinatra
2008-11-16, 20:34
album is just a database characteristic, its not a unique identifier.

its not totally clear what all SC does, but it does use location, folder names, tag info, etc... and sometimes some "logics" of its own that aren't defined.

its an interesting question tho u pose... b/c i remember when an "album" consisted of two distinct parts... a side A and a side B. that concept seems to have all but died, but a lot of great albums were conceived of as such. dark side of the moon, sgt pepper, abbey road, who's next, etc... its really an endless list; albums were meant to be digested and the story they told in "sides" that together were the album.

i miss that concept, and would like to see "side a" and "side b" tag come into play in the CDDBs of the world.

aside from the "sides" issue, i'd say an album can loosely technically be defined as any group of tracks appearing on one CD or LP. however, a lot of people think of albums in the tighter context of a grouping of original songs, whereas 'compilation albums' is a subset where you have a greatest hits or various artists grouping of songs.

don't trust SC to give you reliable stats for things either, it contradicts itself all over the place and i have a bug in for that. i use winamp which i trust a lot more for stats.

glassy10
2009-02-08, 04:30
I have a lot of classical box sets and this behaviour where squeezecenter treats albums as different when the tracks are spread across separate folders is really very irritating. Surely it should only look at the tags, not the folder structure?

Is there any way at all to overcome this other than physically moving files in to the same folders?

Siduhe
2009-02-08, 04:33
Try adding a Compilation=1 (or yes) tag to the affected files. Then do a clear and rescan.

Moonbase
2009-02-08, 05:24
You might want to vote for bug 10583 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10583) which cured all these "different folder, same album" problems for me.

Maybe, just maybe, we have a little chance that this will be retrofitted into 7.3.3/7.4 instead of being postponed forever.

glassy10
2009-02-08, 06:05
Siduhe - I've tried various combinations - compilation=1, compilation=yes, itunescompilation=1, itunescompilation=yes - but none have made any difference.

In any case these are not compilation albumns. A set of Beethoven Symphonies for example may come on 6 discs. In the tags I've renumbered all the tracks and made the album and artist names the same but squeezecenter still shows 6 different albums all with the same name because each disc was ripped to a different folder.

Moonbase - you're problem is different but the reasoning and solution - ie not using folders to determine albums - is the same. When you say it "cured" the problem I assume you mean it would cure the problem if the proposed change was implemented?

Phil Leigh
2009-02-08, 06:16
Siduhe - I've tried various combinations - compilation=1, compilation=yes, itunescompilation=1, itunescompilation=yes - but none have made any difference.

In any case these are not compilation albumns. A set of Beethoven Symphonies for example may come on 6 discs. In the tags I've renumbered all the tracks and made the album and artist names the same but squeezecenter still shows 6 different albums all with the same name because each disc was ripped to a different folder.

Moonbase - you're problem is different but the reasoning and solution - ie not using folders to determine albums - is the same. When you say it "cured" the problem I assume you mean it would cure the problem if the proposed change was implemented?

For your Beethoven example you need to do the following:
1) set each album title to exactly the same value for all tracks in all folders
2) set the DISCNUMBER tag to 1, 2, etc for all tracks in each (disc) folder as appropriate
3) set the SC setting to treat multi-disc sets as single albums
4) clear and rescan

That definitely works.

Moonbase
2009-02-08, 06:27
When you say it "cured" the problem I assume you mean it would cure the problem if the proposed change was implemented?

Yes, which I actually did on my SC installation here, of course :-)

Teus de Jong
2009-02-08, 07:25
For your Beethoven example you need to do the following:
1) set each album title to exactly the same value for all tracks in all folders
2) set the DISCNUMBER tag to 1, 2, etc for all tracks in each (disc) folder as appropriate
3) set the SC setting to treat multi-disc sets as single albums
4) clear and rescan

That definitely works.

I think one thing is missing Phil :-) We also need a totaldiscs setting for each track. This can either be done by setting TOTALDISKS or by setting the discnumber to 1/n, 2/n, etc., where n is the total number of discs. The problem with TOTALDISKS is that different tagging programs use different tags for this. SC uses DISCC (for disccount) internally.

Added: I have a lot of sets like the one described here and they all are treated like one album. When I have ripped and tagged a set, add it to SC and an additional scan shows more than one album, I know I have made a tagging mistake somewhere. And indeed, that was always the case.

Teus

glassy10
2009-02-08, 07:37
Thanks Phil - I had just in fact tried setting Discnumber to 1 and totaldiscs to 1 and that seems to have done the trick.

Teus de Jong
2009-02-08, 07:41
Thanks Phil - I had just in fact tried setting Discnumber to 1 and totaldiscs to 1 and that seems to have done the trick.

I'm confused here. In the set you mentioned, totaldiscs should be 6 and the discnumber running from 1 to 6. Otherwise, the display of the tracks will be odd I guess?

Teus

Phil Leigh
2009-02-08, 07:50
I think one thing is missing Phil :-) We also need a totaldiscs setting for each track. This can either be done by setting TOTALDISKS or by setting the discnumber to 1/n, 2/n, etc., where n is the total number of discs. The problem with TOTALDISKS is that different tagging programs use different tags for this. SC uses DISCC (for disccount) internally.

Added: I have a lot of sets like the one described here and they all are treated like one album. When I have ripped and tagged a set, add it to SC and an additional scan shows more than one album, I know I have made a tagging mistake somewhere. And indeed, that was always the case.

Teus

Teus - you don't need to set TOTALDISKS. I never do and it works fine (for me).
regards
Phil

aubuti
2009-02-08, 07:56
Teus - you don't need to set TOTALDISKS. I never do and it works fine (for me).
regards
Phil
Same here .

Teus de Jong
2009-02-08, 08:06
Thanks gentlemen, I stand corrected. Apparently, SC 'counts' the total number of discs itself and fills the DISCC based on that.

(I saw the same with tracknumber / total tracks: you don't have to give the total number of tracks).

You still need to set the TOTALDISCS for programs that can do their own folder scan and that do not count the number of discs in that way. I think e.g. of muso (I like that new program a lot). I will suggest the developer to do the count himself also.

Teus

Moonbase
2009-02-08, 08:30
Re Disc Numbers in FLAC:

SC recognises "DISC", "DISCNUMBER", "DISCC" and "DISCTOTAL". For dBpoweramp users, "TOTALDISCS" (all with a "C"!) has also been added.

If you prefer using something like "DISCNUMBER=1/6" (like with tracks), SC also supports this. (This is how I tag my FLACs — I simply find it easier to handle.)

Pretty "universal", as always :-)

Just quick-checked this on the SC7.4 sources; older versions might behave differently.

In general, I’d say it pays using the "/x" in DISCNUMBER, or setting "DISCC", "DISCTOTAL" or "TOTALDISCS" — depending on your needs with other software — if a set consists of more than one disc. It helps SC (and other software) to more correctly determine things like "these belong to one set", for instance if you distribute compilation tracks into artist folders instead of keeping them in one folder.

glassy10
2009-02-08, 08:35
I'm confused here. In the set you mentioned, totaldiscs should be 6 and the discnumber running from 1 to 6. Otherwise, the display of the tracks will be odd I guess?

Teus

There are 6 discs but I'm not bothered about that - the symphonies are arranged on the discs purely for reasons of length (ie filling the discs in order to minimise the number required) rather than in sequence. I had already re-numbered all the tracks so that symphonies 1-9 are arranged in chronological order.