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ericplan
2008-10-18, 03:13
I do not own a squeezebox yet, but in the near future I will...
Some thoughts:
I do like the new remote with graphic display, but I dislike remotes in general*. There are always issues with battery life and robustness. And in this case (Squeezebox 3 or Duet) you loose control when the remote fails.
My perfect Squeezebox will be a combined Boom and Duet, a fixed "cube like" apparatus without speakers, displaying the cover art on the built in display and operated by some buttons and a big jog dial. Just for convenience a squeezebox 3 remote is added, but not needed. And because the "cube" has some space inside, the powersupply is a built in multivoltage (110-240 V 50-60 Hz) instead of a clumsy adapter. A real power on/off button adds to the green aspect of this one!

Will I ever see this one?

* Over the years I discarded drills, toothbrushes, electric razors etc. all because the rechargeable battery failed and was not replaceble, not available anymore or the spare battery costed more than a new. Apart from the battery all this stuff was working well.

peter
2008-10-18, 04:05
ericplan wrote:
> I do not own a squeezebox yet, but in the near future I will...
> Some thoughts:
> I do like the new remote with graphic display, but I dislike remotes in
> general. There are always issues with battery life and robustness. And
> in this case (Squeezebox 3 or Duet) you loose control when the remote
> fails.
> My perfect Squeezebox will be a combined Boom and Duet, a fixed "cube
> like" apparatus without speakers, displaying the cover art on the built
> in display and operated by some buttons and a big jog dial. Just for
> convenience a squeezebox 3 remote is added, but not needed. And because
> the "cube" has some space inside, the powersupply is a built in
> multivoltage (110-240 V 50-60 Hz) instead of a clumsy adapter. A real
> power on/off button adds to the green aspect of this one!
>
> Will I ever see this one?
>

I think there's a good chance to see at last part of that. I heard that
SD is going to abandon the VFD display for the next gen SB's. That means
we'll probably see a colour LCD (or Oled?) display on the SB4. If you
have a colour display it makes sense to show the cover art. As for
buttons, I'm not so sure, but why not? As long as we have the controller
and remote, extra buttons on the device wouldn't hurt. The result could
be like a controller velcroed to a Receiver or an SB3 with built in
squeezeplay. That makes most of the software reusable which is always a
big plus.

Regards,
Peter

Sike
2008-10-18, 04:05
What about this:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/13/bang-and-olufsens-beosound-5-controller-in-the-wild/

Comes with a unicorn and/or a pony.

Phil Leigh
2008-10-18, 04:16
What about this:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/13/bang-and-olufsens-beosound-5-controller-in-the-wild/

Comes with a unicorn and/or a pony.
I believe it actually comes with a moose...

funkstar
2008-10-18, 04:26
The SB3 and Duet (and indeed all players) can be controlled from the web interface, so if you loose the remote you can still control them.

I very much doubt we'll see a consumer focused Squeeze product with an integrated power supply. There is all sorts of regulatory requirements to be met when you do this. With an external wall-wart or power brick, those tests have already been done. For example, the Boom uses a brick that Logitech already used in other products, so the designers didn't need to worry about that when building the Boom, if it doesn't ue mains voltage, you don't need to test it.

As for abandoning the VFD, i wouldn't say that would strictly true. There will be devices with large colour screens, as they would just utilise the SqueezeOS interface for the Controller, all the work has already been done.

What I want is a 7" (or there abouts) photo-frame styles SB that uses SqueezeOS and has audio outputs to connect to my clear HarmonKardon SoundSticks. And if SqueezeCenter was able to catalogue my photo library as well as my music library then that would be awesome :)

peter
2008-10-18, 04:37
funkstar wrote:
> The SB3 and Duet (and indeed all players) can be controlled from the web
> interface, so if you loose the remote you can still control them.
>
> I very much doubt we'll see a consumer focused Squeeze product with an
> integrated power supply. There is all sorts of regulatory requirements
> to be met when you do this. With an external wall-wart or power brick,
> those tests have already been done. For example, the Boom uses a brick
> that Logitech already used in other products, so the designers didn't
> need to worry about that when building the Boom, if it doesn't ue mains
> voltage, you don't need to test it.
>
> As for abandoning the VFD, i wouldn't say that would strictly true.
>
I read that an SD engineer recently said that. It makes sense IMHO.

> There will be devices with large colour screens, as they would just
> utilise the SqueezeOS interface for the Controller, all the work has
> already been done.
>
Exactly.
> What I want is a 7" (or there abouts) photo-frame styles SB that uses
> SqueezeOS and has audio outputs to connect to my clear HarmonKardon
> SoundSticks. And if SqueezeCenter was able to catalogue my photo
> library as well as my music library then that would be awesome :)
>

That would seem like a logical addition to the SD portfolio. Considering
the Controller already does audio, it would essentially just be a king
size controller with a large display and an ethernet connector. I don't
expect built in power supplies either. Not that big a loss.

Regards,
Peter

upstatemike
2008-10-18, 08:06
I always get confused when I see discussions like this because I can't really picture the applications suggested. While I can see some situations where haveing a volume or mute control on the player would be handy, most of my players are in locations where they can be easily seen but not easily reached, with remotes in the prime listening areas. The local control scenario would certainly be an exception to normal use.

I am even more confused about the desire for LCD screens. I never used to sit and stare at my record album covers as I was spinning discs in the vinyl days, so I am trying to see the attraction of displaying those covers while playing from my digital collection? It is far more useful to see the large print artist/track information along with the cool visualizer dispaly than it ever would be to look at album art. I am also concerned that a small display with enough resolution for album art will perform poorly when viewed from across the room. And I am worried that a product that emulates the cheap and barely readable LCD interface found on my cell phone would ruin the visual impact that Squeezeboxes currently bring to a nice audio installation.

I hope Logitech doesn't take the suggestions from this forum as a mandate to turn the Squeezebox line into some sort of LCD driven, iPod looking, digital lifestyle product.

peter
2008-10-18, 08:18
upstatemike wrote:
> I always get confused when I see discussions like this because I can't
> really picture the applications suggested. While I can see some
> situations where haveing a volume or mute control on the player would
> be handy, most of my players are in locations where they can be easily
> seen but not easily reached, with remotes in the prime listening areas.
> The local control scenario would certainly be an exception to normal
> use.
>

Right now, yes. But imagine having a picture frame like SB on the wall
in the kitchen with a 7" display and buttons and wheel like the
controller. That could be a useful addition for some people.

> I am even more confused about the desire for LCD screens. I never used
> to sit and stare at my record album covers as I was spinning discs in
> the vinyl days, so I am trying to see the attraction of displaying
> those covers while playing from my digital collection? It is far more
> useful to see the large print artist/track information along with the
> cool visualizer dispaly than it ever would be to look at album art. I
> am also concerned that a small display with enough resolution for album
> art will perform poorly when viewed from across the room. And I am
> worried that a product that emulates the cheap and barely readable LCD
> interface found on my cell phone would ruin the visual impact that
> Squeezeboxes currently bring to a nice audio installation.
>

Not small, big...

> I hope Logitech doesn't take the suggestions from this forum as a
> mandate to turn the Squeezebox line into some sort of LCD driven, iPod
> looking, digital lifestyle product.
>

I wouldn't like to see the SB line turned into boomboxes either, but
I've no problems with a boombox added to the line.

Regards,
Peter

upstatemike
2008-10-18, 08:42
upstatemike wrote:[color=blue]
I wouldn't like to see the SB line turned into boomboxes either, but
I've no problems with a boombox added to the line.

Regards,
Peter

The Boom did not replace any existing product. My concern is a potential LCD based SB4 that replaces the VFD based SBS with something akin to an iPod Touch in a table stand. The Controller is fine, as a controller, but I would still want my players to have a VFD display or an OLED implemetation that is closer to the current application than it is to a digital picture frame. I have no problem with new products that expand the line but the suggestion of an LCD SB4 to replace the current SB3 does not sound attractive.

DeVerm
2008-10-18, 09:44
I very much doubt we'll see a consumer focused Squeeze product with an integrated power supply. There is all sorts of regulatory requirements to be met when you do this. With an external wall-wart or power brick, those tests have already been done.

Well, I don't see why meeting regulations would prevent a manufacturer putting a PSU in audio equipment. It just means that it's gonna be safe. Also, you can buy certified PSU modules for use inside equipment just as easy as external PSU, but they cost more! (like PC PSU's)

Another reason for external PSU is that you keep it's noise away from your sensitive circuits.

But I want an external brick with DC output because we live on a boat with 12V and I like to skip the AC which is very easy with external PSU.

For the thread on perfect squeezebox: balanced analog outputs for long leads to powered speakers without having to resort to TP class! a $4 chip achieves that.

cheers,
Nick.

gbruzzo
2008-10-18, 10:02
I am even more confused about the desire for LCD screens. I never used to sit and stare at my record album covers as I was spinning discs in the vinyl days, so I am trying to see the attraction of displaying those covers while playing from my digital collection? It is far more useful to see the large print artist/track information along with the cool visualizer dispaly than it ever would be to look at album art. I am also concerned that a small display with enough resolution for album art will perform poorly when viewed from across the room. And I am worried that a product that emulates the cheap and barely readable LCD interface found on my cell phone would ruin the visual impact that Squeezeboxes currently bring to a nice audio installation.

I hope Logitech doesn't take the suggestions from this forum as a mandate to turn the Squeezebox line into some sort of LCD driven, iPod looking, digital lifestyle product.

Why not? Personally, I would have no issue is being given the opportunity to handle my music collection via a larg-ish multi-touch interface (see sooloos for an example). And I wouldn't mind to have a little more than 7" to play with.

jsprag
2008-10-18, 10:26
And I wouldn't mind to have a little more than 7" to play with.

I get e-mails all the time that claim to have a solution to that. I can forward them to you if you like.

iPhone
2008-10-18, 10:27
I am going to be as gentle as I can, so please try not to take this the wrong way. These types of posts just really get me going. How can you have any thoughts when you yourself admit that you don't even own one? Your thoughts are based on bad assumptions because you don't own one or bother to research the product first. I have an idea, how about reading the product descriptions on the Slim Devices website for a start. Then maybe read some reviews or better yet buy one. Get some skin in the game, then have at wanting it re-engineered.


I do not own a squeezebox yet, but in the near future I will...
Some thoughts:
I do like the new remote with graphic display, but I dislike remotes in general*. There are always issues with battery life and robustness.
The Controller on the Duet is rechargeable. It goes in its recharging cradle when it needs a charge. So battery life is manageable. The Controller is fairly robust, but like any electronic device it is not designed to be dropped or used as a hammer!

And in this case (Squeezebox 3 or Duet) you loose control when the remote fails.
First, the Controller with the Duet is NOT a remote, it is a Controller. Second, if it fails you can use the WebUI until you get a replacement. And if the remote fails on an SB3, you can use any Harmony remote or the WebUI to operate the SB3. By the way, you can reach the SB3 or Duet Receiver with any laptop, PDA, or PC on your network. In my case with all the PCs and laptops in the house, that means many locations to access the units around the house other then the Controller or the remote.

My perfect Squeezebox will be a combined Boom and Duet, a fixed "cube like" apparatus without speakers, displaying the cover art on the built in display and operated by some buttons and a big jog dial. Just for convenience a squeezebox 3 remote is added, but not needed. And because the "cube" has some space inside, the power supply is a built in multivoltage (110-240 V 50-60 Hz) instead of a clumsy adapter. A real power on/off button adds to the green aspect of this one!
How do you even think you know what your perfect Squeezebox is or will be when you don't even own the basic unit yet????????!!!!!!!!!!!! And the reason the power supply is outboard on the Boom is many fold. First, it removes a huge issue with having the unit certified in all the countries it is sold in because it doesn't have a an internal PS. Second all that space is saved for better bass response. It is easier to sell all over the world when only the slide on outlet adapter needs changed to make it Country correct. That makes manufacturing easier because all the main units are the same. And on and on.
Who cares about the Green Aspect? I can almost say for certain that almost everybody on this board has their TV set to instant on. Slim Devices are network devices and by design and default need to be at powered on standby. Last, its electricity, which is renewable unlike oil. Itís already made and because it is AC it isn't stored so you might as well use it instead of just letting it go to waste. You are not going to notice any difference in your monthly bill leaving an SB3 plugged in all the time!


Will I ever see this one?
I hope not in my lifetime. The display would be a total waste. The whole idea behind the Duet is to bring the display/screen to the user, not the user to the unit every time you want to know something. Why get up and down every song when you can sit and enjoy the music from any location. One really needs to own one first before making suggestions about what is needed or wrong with it.


* Over the years I discarded drills, toothbrushes, electric razors etc. all because the rechargeable battery failed and was not replaceable, not available anymore or the spare battery costed more than a new. Apart from the battery all this stuff was working well.
The batteries in the SB3 remote are AA so either throw them out or use rechargeable batteries. The rechargeable battery comes out of the Controller so when its life is over buy a new rechargeable battery, don't throw the Controller out. Slim Devices remotes and Controllers are NOT throw-aways. By the way, if youíre so green, why are you throwing out rechargeable units just because the rechargeable battery needs replaced. I am on my fourth replacement battery on my electric razor. In fact, they sent me the latest model for free (well almost, cost of the old battery) the last time I sent it in for a replacement battery because the old battery was no longer available.

But again since you don't own any Slim Devices, you wouldn't know that the unit remotes and Controllers are user serviceable now would you?

HectorHughMunro
2008-10-18, 10:57
Why not? Personally, I would have no issue is being given the opportunity to handle my music collection via a larg-ish multi-touch interface (see sooloos for an example). And I wouldn't mind to have a little more than 7" to play with.

Surely there are opportunities to do this with Squeezecentre when touch screen PCs and EEEpcs come out (which seems to be imminent).

Re; previous comments; I prefer having outboard power supplies. Something like a Duet with a decent screen might be interesting to me but I'd rather have a bit more speed on the Duet Handset and an edition of Squeezecentre which uses less memory. Also, I'd like to have something like a Duet that can be used as a standalone unit with a USB drive full of music without the PC.

It's useful to have 'what we want' threads from time to time.

iPhone
2008-10-18, 11:55
Surely there are opportunities to do this with Squeezecentre when touch screen PCs and EEEpcs come out (which seems to be imminent).

Re; previous comments; I prefer having outboard power supplies. Something like a Duet with a decent screen might be interesting to me but I'd rather have a bit more speed on the Duet Handset and an edition of Squeezecentre which uses less memory.
SqueezeCenter uses what memory it needs. It has a whole pile of things to do as well as be the brains of the NMP. Remember that all the Slim Devices are just dumb interface units. An interface to display information, receiver and pass through remote commands, and to connect the music feed to your stereo. The real power is SqueezeCenter and SqueezeNetwork.

Also, I'd like to have something like a Duet that can be used as a standalone unit with a USB drive full of music without the PC.
We already have those. There're called an iPod or portable MP3 player. If Microsoft can't make headway in that market with the Zune, why would Logitech waste money on it? Also locally (in your network's range), the Controller is this device with a USB drive access as large as you can afford! Just add SC 7.3 and a pair of headphones (no water please).


It's useful to have 'what we want' threads from time to time.
Agreed, very useful when it sparks new or different ideas. But a little tiring when its all about devices that already exist and can hardly be improved on. Or totally nuts when somebody wants a one off unit that is just perfect for their one unique situation.

Keep those ideas coming because it could just make somebody think of another device that hasn't been produced yet which will be of benefit to all.

aubuti
2008-10-19, 19:06
Surely there are opportunities to do this with Squeezecentre when touch screen PCs and EEEpcs come out (which seems to be imminent).
Erm, touch screen PCs have been out for a long time. So long that at least one forum member's solution is a Fujitsu tablet pc that he picked up on eBay for a couple hundred $ or so. Various touchscreen devices are out there, from "real" PCs to devices like the Nokia 800, HP's new TouchSmart thingy, etc.

pablolie
2008-10-19, 19:40
What about this:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/13/bang-and-olufsens-beosound-5-controller-in-the-wild/

Comes with a unicorn and/or a pony.

B&O? Excuse my retching episode... :-)

pablolie
2008-10-19, 19:45
Erm, touch screen PCs have been out for a long time. So long that at least one forum member's solution is a Fujitsu tablet pc that he picked up on eBay for a couple hundred $ or so. Various touchscreen devices are out there, from "real" PCs to devices like the Nokia 800, HP's new TouchSmart thingy, etc.

I agree - I think investing R&D into fancier remotes is a lost cause. Invest into a modular web interface. That can be reused no matter what devices establishes itself as a dominant force. which in a few years, my guess goes, will either be very fancy remotes, or an evolved iPhone-like platform that we also use as a computer that latches itself into every peripheral element we are around of - monitors, keyboard and mice and the like...

Pale Blue Ego
2008-10-19, 19:59
I was surprised to learn just how usable a 3.2" touch screen can be after using a portable Garmin GPS unit for a few days. It's a nice interface, the touch screen works well, and even that small screen offers a decent amount of real estate for a device that stays within a foot or so of your eyes and hands.

That said, a SB4 with an LCD screen seems like it would be less usable than the current VFD when viewed from across the room. The current controller works well because that 1.5" album cover is close to your eyes. The LCD would have to be huge to make album graphics viewable from across the room, and if you're aiming for that, you might as well just include a video out and let people display menus and graphics on a 42" LCD where they might actually be compelling.

I do agree that one of the very strong points of the Controller is that you do NOT have to look at the player. Putting an LCD on the player is a step backwards, IMO. It might be nifty for a small % of customers in special situations, but probably has little mass-market appeal.

I continue to believe that any SB4 would have to be a redesign of the AUDIO circuitry, not the VIDEO circuitry. 24/96 capability, a better DAC, etc. would be the evolutionary platform advance.

lanierb
2008-10-19, 23:24
...I dislike remotes in general*. There are always issues with battery life and robustness. And in this case (Squeezebox 3 or Duet) you loose control when the remote fails.

I have to admit that these seem like bizarre comments to me:

(1) Battery life: the SB3 remote runs through a set of batteries like once every two years or so? Hardly qualifies as "always issues".

(2) Robustness: I drop mine all the time and the worst thing that happens is the batteries fly out. Again, hardly a problem. If you run over it with your car, you can always order another one, which brings me to...

(3) You can control your SB from any computer with internet access. This includes an iPhone, PDA, laptop, etc. You can also use a universal remote, or a JVC remote. Frankly, you can use pretty much any remote you want (with a little extra effort because you would have to write down the codes).

These are non-issues IMO. The SB is much more flexible in this regard than any other piece of electronics I own.

cliveb
2008-10-20, 04:03
And I wouldn't mind to have a little more than 7" to play with.
<basil brush>BOOM BOOM!!</basil brush>