PDA

View Full Version : Development community less active?



maggior
2008-10-17, 11:29
I find it interesting that Logitech has taken on the full effort of activating the headphone jack on the controller. If you remember back to when the duet was rolled out initially, the openess of the hardware and software platform was emphasized and great-things-to-come were hinted at.

Here's the post I'm thinking of, especially the last 3 paragraphs:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=254747&postcount=53

Based on this and discussion that went on afterwards, I fully expected that it was going to be left up to the community to activate the headphone jack.

So I was surprised when I found out that Logitech took it on themselves to activate the headphone jack. This is fine with me - I'll just be happy to be able to use the controller as a portable player in my house!

Does this mean that Logitech perfers to take control itself and throw its own develpment resources on the problem? Or is it that the community didn't really respond and Logitech had to pick it up?

None of this is meant as a criticism of anything or anybody, I just found these development curious. I thought it would be interesting to hear other's views on this.

Mark Lanctot
2008-10-17, 11:39
I've been thinking along similar lines. In particular, I notice developers haven't taken to lua as easily as they've taken to perl. Plugins can be written for the controller but there are very few out there.

I would help but I just don't have the coding skill. I tried to teach myself perl and got lost. Either I'm not as smart as I was when I was younger (a distinct possibility!) or perl is just too different from everything else I've played around with.

peter
2008-10-17, 11:55
Mark Lanctot wrote:
> I've been thinking along similar lines. In particular, I notice
> developers haven't taken to lua as easily as they've taken to perl.
> Plugins can be written for the controller but there are very few out
> there.
>
> I would help but I just don't have the coding skill. I tried to teach
> myself perl and got lost. Either I'm not as smart as I was when I was
> younger (a distinct possibility!) or perl is just too different from
> everything else I've played around with.
>

Just get the Llama and work it through and you'll get it. Apart from
regular expressions and weird stuff like the $_ automatic variable it's
not that different from other languages and these things are optional.
One you learn regex you'll realise it's worth the terrible syntax. All
other languages I know have regular expressions built in these days, but
in Perl it's really part of the language.

http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596101053/

Regards,
Peter

bpa
2008-10-17, 12:17
Based on this and discussion that went on afterwards, I fully expected that it was going to be left up to the community to activate the headphone jack.

So I was surprised when I found out that Logitech took it on themselves to activate the headphone jack. This is fine with me - I'll just be happy to be able to use the controller as a portable player in my house!


The plans for SD to implement audio on the headphone were already decided in sept 2007 as noted in the following thread.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38486

From a personal point of view - The Squeezeplay platform is less than a year old and the facilities to make it easy to develop on it (e.g. lots of varied plugins) are not there yet. I think when Squeezeplay is easy to run on PC/Mac and is used instead of SoftSqueeze, development will become easier and there will be a bigger audience.

snarlydwarf
2008-10-17, 13:10
or could it be that some of the 'community' developers have been hired by Logitech?

maggior
2008-10-17, 17:26
or could it be that some of the 'community' developers have been hired by Logitech?

Hmmm, forgot about that.

radish
2008-10-18, 22:25
I think Lua is one of the problems - Perl is a pretty basic tool which pretty much any professional developer has had at least some experience of. Lua on the other hand is very niche. No-one's even heard of it where I work, and we use most of the other trendy scripting languages daily. It's not a hard thing to learn (I've started dabbling) but it does require an effort unlike Perl.

JJZolx
2008-10-19, 02:07
I find it interesting that Logitech has taken on the full effort of activating the headphone jack on the controller. If you remember back to when the duet was rolled out initially, the openess of the hardware and software platform was emphasized and great-things-to-come were hinted at.

Logitech is a very large and very well financed corporation. The streaming whatchamahoozit so-and-so sub-sub-something-or-another division seems to have been outfitted with a small, but well qualified team of developers. There's little reason for someone to jump in and implement a feature that is (probably, but who knows anymore?) in development.

autopilot
2008-10-19, 02:16
Note to would-be Lua/plugin developers - get that IR emitter doing something useful!

schiegl
2008-10-19, 02:26
Note to would-be Lua/plugin developers - get that IR emitter doing something useful!
Full ack! This is the first SBC-plugin i would write - if i could...

Jonnio
2008-10-19, 05:11
I just figured since the controller needs a pretty significant firmware update to utilize the audio out that it was beyond the means of the community to gin up.

kdf
2008-10-20, 22:49
On 17-Oct-08, at 1:10 PM, snarlydwarf wrote:

>
> or could it be that some of the 'community' developers have been hired
> by Logitech?
>
some of them, yes. It's a very good point. With resources on the
payroll, and meetings for employees, then much of what used to be open
is not what it was.
couple that with the added effort it takes to make up for it, and you
lose a lot of what might motivate third party activists (aside from
those with intense self-interest).

A lot has been lost.....and it's not about a logo.

-kdf

erland
2008-10-20, 23:26
I can only talk for myself, but for me the reasons are the following:

- Lua:
A new language to learn that you won't have use for anywhere else.

- Controller (not player):
Any Controller applet could only be accessed through the Controller while a SqueezeCenter plugin could be accessed through all types of remote controls(IR, Controller and iPod/iPhone). So if I can do something as a SqueezeCenter plugin it's preferable to me, especially since I mostly control the Squeezebox with the Harmony IR remote or the iPod/iPhone.

- Lack of communication:
A general point which I think is similar to what kdf suggests, is that the communication between Logitech and the development community is a lot less today than it was before. Previously you could start a discussion in the development section on the forum and almost always get feedback from the lead developers, today it's possible to post simple questions but it is almost impossible to discuss something regarding the future. Often most of the replies are from end users or from developers that have developed in other projects but not for SqueezeCenter. It should be said that the situation is a bit better regarding questions/discussions on some parts of the code (user interface related stuff). Personally I'm really missing the vision regarding the future, but I suppose it's a good idea for Logitech to keep that for themselves from a business point of view since it might include future products which they don't want anyone to know about yet.

The result of all this is that as a third party developer you kind of loose interest when no one seems to be interested in your thoughts, why contribute if there is no interest ?
My personal feeling is that communication is the key element to keep the me personally interested in the future, I'm not sure if other third party developers feels the same.

I'm not sure if the reason for all this is the Logitech purchase or if it's caused by the fact that some(one?) of the lead developers decided to continue on another road instead of continue as a Logitech employee. If it's caused by the latter things might improve in the future when new employees fully take over the role of the lost employee(s).

I'm pretty sure the reasons for less activity isn't caused by the Controller source code licensing as someone suggested in another thread/post, but others might feel different than me regarding this.

pfarrell
2008-10-20, 23:44
erland wrote:
> - Lua:
> A new language to learn that you won't have use for anywhere else.

Actually, I was excited about Lua. I've been doing java for ten years,
and its clear that Java is showing its age. So a nice, clean,
lightweight language has a lot of attraction.

And after 20 or 30 languages, what's one more?

I was turned off by the development environment, all the talk about how
to setup your PC using VMware, etc.

Someone has to be first to use a new language, why not us? Some, like
Iverson's AP/L don't take off, but its good to be exposed to new things.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

mherger
2008-10-21, 00:23
> - Lua:
> A new language to learn that you won't have use for anywhere else.

Lua seems to be pretty popular in the Gaming industry, but eg. Adobe is
using it too in their Lightroom product:
http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaUses

Michael

Goodsounds
2008-10-21, 10:12
Someone has to be first to use a new language, why not us? Some, like
Iverson's AP/L don't take off, but its good to be exposed to new things.


Are you saying that the discount I got on the APL self-study course wasn't such a good deal after all?