PDA

View Full Version : Convince me to buy...please



yobyot
2008-10-16, 14:13
Hi, everyone.

I have been reading up on this device and really want one, especially because it will play media from my ReadyNAS NV+.

And I was really impressed with Caleb's white paper on the box. Rarely does one get to read the design engineer's thinking for a device and understand the design decisions he made. (Plus, that exploded view from the CAD system was very cool.)

But...and this isn't a big but...I am wary of buying the first generation. Caleb is probably working on version 2 right now, and it'll be cheaper and better.

This is always a problem with tech, but the heat seekers always pay a premium, if for no other reason that manufacturing hasn't ramped up yet. It'll kill me if there's a new box at $150 just in time for Xmas or new software that can't work on the original boxes in early 2009.

So, go on, convince me to buy now. (I really want to anyway.)

Secret Squirrel
2008-10-16, 15:15
Hi, everyone.

I have been reading up on this device and really want one, especially because it will play media from my ReadyNAS NV+.

And I was really impressed with Caleb's white paper on the box. Rarely does one get to read the design engineer's thinking for a device and understand the design decisions he made. (Plus, that exploded view from the CAD system was very cool.)

But...and this isn't a big but...I am wary of buying the first generation. Caleb is probably working on version 2 right now, and it'll be cheaper and better.

This is always a problem with tech, but the heat seekers always pay a premium, if for no other reason that manufacturing hasn't ramped up yet. It'll kill me if there's a new box at $150 just in time for Xmas or new software that can't work on the original boxes in early 2009.

So, go on, convince me to buy now. (I really want to anyway.)

First of all, WELCOME to the forum!

Logitech & Slim Devices do not comment on future products. HOWEVER, all previous hardware versions of Slim Devices are "grandfathered" in software changes that they still function today albeit with MANY added features. Jump in and join the fun! You can download the software right now, install it, install SoftSqueeze, and enjoy all the features of the hardware on your computer. That will convince you alone, but browse the forums, see the feature requests, support help, etc, etc...The is a GREAT place to be if you're a music lover.

BTW, you'll have to pry my SB2, an older model, out of my cold dead fingers :)

HTH,

SS

snarlydwarf
2008-10-16, 15:34
But...and this isn't a big but...I am wary of buying the first generation. Caleb is probably working on version 2 right now, and it'll be cheaper and better.

This is always a problem with tech, but the heat seekers always pay a premium, if for no other reason that manufacturing hasn't ramped up yet. It'll kill me if there's a new box at $150 just in time for Xmas or new software that can't work on the original boxes in early 2009.

So, go on, convince me to buy now. (I really want to anyway.)

Well, remember that despite the URL at the top of the page, this isn't really an offical Logitech Streaming whatever site. Heck, most of us don't even know this week's name for the old Slim Devices business unit...

It is mostly a bunch of loudmouth customers (said with all due respect, since I can be one of them) that just enjoy their music-playing toys so much they hang out here. Sometimes people come here with problems, wishlists, whatever and depending on their presentation get eaten alive or get helpful advice...

Occasionally actual employees wander through here, but I don't think any of them have "You must answer questions and provide marketing support on the forums" as part of their job description... I think they do it for the same reason the loudmouth customers hang out here: they like their product and they like getting ideas on how to make it better.

So, no, I dunno if anyone is going to put out a ton of effort to convince you to buy a Boom or any other product. I don't think anyone here would get a commission on a sale, and those who do own Logitech stock would never notice any gain (especially in the current economy..) from your purchase... so we have nothing to lose or gain based on your purchase.

That said, you will still get people (um, like me, dammit) that will tell you "just buy the thing... it will change your life."

Seriously.

Whether it is Boom, SB Classic, Duet, Transporter, or whatever.. it will change how you listen to music, and that can have profound influences on your mood and therefore personality and therefore your life. Well, okay, maybe that is an overstatement, but it holds true for me.

The "wait for the Next product" is silly. An ex- of mine took a photography class where they used that logic for why no one should ever buy a digital camera. "Because the one you buy will be outdated in a year!"

Meanwhile, they think spending tons of money on film and processing is better?

Basic tech rule: get the item that meets your present needs with a bit of fluffy room for the next year or two (if you can predict that part). After that, it will be outdated and you can buy the next gen thing as an improvement.

[Though, to be honest that doesnt work with Slim... the "old generation" still works fine, and often sees its capabilities expanded as time goes on... People sell used Squeezebox's on ebay for nearly the price of a new-with-warranty unit, which is very strange in the consumer electronics field, and a testament to the quality and expandability of the design.]

So, yeah, if you want a Boom, buy it. Maybe in a year or two or three something "better" will be out. Maybe not. But why go for a year or two or three without something that can bring so much musical pleasure in your life?

mvalera
2008-10-16, 15:38
We don't comment on new/future products but I will say 2 things:

1. There will not be a new Boom for xMas
2. Our future software will continue to support our legacy products as we add new ones

Mike

Howard Passman
2008-10-16, 15:45
Hi, everyone.

I have been reading up on this device and really want one, especially because it will play media from my ReadyNAS NV+.

And I was really impressed with Caleb's white paper on the box. Rarely does one get to read the design engineer's thinking for a device and understand the design decisions he made. (Plus, that exploded view from the CAD system was very cool.)

But...and this isn't a big but...I am wary of buying the first generation. Caleb is probably working on version 2 right now, and it'll be cheaper and better.

This is always a problem with tech, but the heat seekers always pay a premium, if for no other reason that manufacturing hasn't ramped up yet. It'll kill me if there's a new box at $150 just in time for Xmas or new software that can't work on the original boxes in early 2009.

So, go on, convince me to buy now. (I really want to anyway.)

By all means buy it. You will have a blast. My personal opinion though, is don't use the ReadyNAS solution. It's slow and you don't get to use all of the plugins and current releases until they're written. I know I'll have disagreement here, but I have so much more fun with my SB's without messing with the ReadyNAS stuff. I run mine on a little dedicated Windows box and it runs great. Just my opinion...too much all at one time causes problems.

Howard

yobyot
2008-10-16, 15:54
By all means buy it. You will have a blast. My personal opinion though, is don't use the ReadyNAS solution. It's slow and you don't get to use all of the plugins and current releases until they're written. I know I'll have disagreement here, but I have so much more fun with my SB's without messing with the ReadyNAS stuff. I run mine on a little dedicated Windows box and it runs great. Just my opinion...too much all at one time causes problems.

Howard


Thanks, everyone. I'm ordering one tomorrow.

But I'd like to hear more about what you lose using the ReadyNAS. That was a major incentive for me as I backup all my media to it and it's a good way to make it available without having to leave a machine on all the time.

SuperQ
2008-10-16, 15:58
That's probably the best thing about the Slim system. The software updates won't break what you buy. I have several Squeezeboxes around of various versions. I even have a slimp3, their original hardware, which works fine with the latest SqueezeCenter versions.

dwilliams01
2008-10-16, 16:02
Speaking as a customer. The attitude here always seems to be about as "future-proof" as you can get. Hardware from many years ago essentially still works with the newest versions of the software. That is a FAR better deal you get from almost anything in the technology area. It's also breathed new life into an old windows box that I would have discarded over a year ago as obsolete - I use it as my music server.

The boom, and the other SBs, are like post-it notes or e-mail, in a way. You can remember when you didn't have them but you aren't quite sure how you managed without them... :)

If you like to listen to "your" music then this is a fantastic way to do it.

SuperQ
2008-10-16, 16:38
Thanks, everyone. I'm ordering one tomorrow.

But I'd like to hear more about what you lose using the ReadyNAS. That was a major incentive for me as I backup all my media to it and it's a good way to make it available without having to leave a machine on all the time.

One of the things ReadyNAS can't do is some of the more complex plugins like Inguz room correction (it doesn't have enough CPU power)

JadeMonkee
2008-10-16, 16:39
I just scooped up two SqueezeBox Classics last week, and it's the best thing I've done in months (even more life-changing than purchasing my ReadyNAS Duo... which runs my Slimserver).
The ReadyNAS runs the Slimserver fine - the HTML interface is a little slow, but certainly useable. I have ~13000 ogg files, and it takes about 3 hours to do a full scan.
The only downside (as mentioned earlier in the thread) is that the plugins don't work out-of-the-box, and the software has to be written directly for the ReadyNAS (although 7.2 was launched at the same time as other platforms - hopefully they'll keep this up).
v7.3 is meant to have speed increases for the HTML interface, too.
I cannot reccommend these devices enough.
After reading the white paper on the Boom, I got so excited by it that I've been considering buying one anyway, and moving one of the existing Classics from the bedroom to the study.
I think that can wait a while though... I wanna buy a new PC first.
All up, highly recommended, and the support and informatiomn in this forum should cover you with any problems you have (compilation tags are probably the biggest problem I've had - a problem which has now been fixed).
If you want to see what plugins are available on tehe ReadyNAS, they have a list here:
http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116482#p116482

iPhone
2008-10-16, 20:10
Hi, everyone.

I have been reading up on this device and really want one, especially because it will play media from my ReadyNAS NV+.

And I was really impressed with Caleb's white paper on the box. Rarely does one get to read the design engineer's thinking for a device and understand the design decisions he made. (Plus, that exploded view from the CAD system was very cool.)

But...and this isn't a big but...I am wary of buying the first generation. Caleb is probably working on version 2 right now, and it'll be cheaper and better.

This is always a problem with tech, but the heat seekers always pay a premium, if for no other reason that manufacturing hasn't ramped up yet. It'll kill me if there's a new box at $150 just in time for Xmas or new software that can't work on the original boxes in early 2009.

So, go on, convince me to buy now. (I really want to anyway.)

There is already a unit for $149 and its called the Squeezebox Receiver (SBR). No display, no speakers, no remote come with the SBR. So based on that, nobody is going to see a Squeezebox Boom for $149 anytime soon.

Just jump in the water is fine. And if you do it now, your will still have time to get a second or third one before Christmas! It is hard to stop at one once you see what it can do for your music.

Pale Blue Ego
2008-10-17, 03:15
Slim tends to take the philosophy of overbuilding their hardware, and then letting future software and firmware updates flesh out all the hardware's features and capabilities. So there won't be a Boom 2 anytime soon. Feel free to purchase now, and the Boom will get better with each software release but it won't cost you another dime.

funkstar
2008-10-17, 03:33
Also the underlying platform has been around since the SB2, so in a a sense it isn't a v1 product. Yes many things are different from any of the others in the range (and previous models) but the concept is the same as three other current players.

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/HardwareComparison

yobyot
2008-10-17, 06:46
I just scooped up two SqueezeBox Classics last week, and it's the best thing I've done in months (even more life-changing than purchasing my ReadyNAS Duo... which runs my Slimserver).
The ReadyNAS runs the Slimserver fine - the HTML interface is a little slow, but certainly useable. I have ~13000 ogg files, and it takes about 3 hours to do a full scan.
The only downside (as mentioned earlier in the thread) is that the plugins don't work out-of-the-box, and the software has to be written directly for the ReadyNAS (although 7.2 was launched at the same time as other platforms - hopefully they'll keep this up).
v7.3 is meant to have speed increases for the HTML interface, too.
I cannot reccommend these devices enough.
After reading the white paper on the Boom, I got so excited by it that I've been considering buying one anyway, and moving one of the existing Classics from the bedroom to the study.
I think that can wait a while though... I wanna buy a new PC first.
All up, highly recommended, and the support and informatiomn in this forum should cover you with any problems you have (compilation tags are probably the biggest problem I've had - a problem which has now been fixed).
If you want to see what plugins are available on tehe ReadyNAS, they have a list here:
http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116482#p116482

Thanks, you can bet I'll be using this link to set everything up.

But can I please ask a noob question? What is the purpose of plugins for the ReadyNAS? Do I get it if I say that the ReadyNAS runs the server to stream music to the Boom and these plugins run on top of that server to add functionality?

If I want to be totally stock, I don't need good plugin compatibility, do I?

dwilliams01
2008-10-17, 07:44
Yes, the plug-ins are completely optional. Some people like a lot of the extras available and install a lot of them, others do not. The plug-ins are a part of the extra long term value you get when you purchase this line, in my opinion. I've run a few plug-ins from time to time, but currently I don't have any installed (beta testing). Others cannot imagine going a day without several. You may want to check out the rather extensive list of free value-add options even if you "only" can use the readynas compatible ones. You don't have to install them right away or ever and you can add them over time at any time.

lanierb
2008-10-17, 13:53
I would be very surprised if there was a boom upgrade within 3 years. Heck, in my opinion the so-called "Squeezebox Classic" still has a few good years left in its product cycle, and it has been out for at least that. If that is what is holding you back, you should definitely buy one! (Beware that you will likely want more once you do though.)

yobyot
2008-10-17, 17:01
Yes, the plug-ins are completely optional. Some people like a lot of the extras available and install a lot of them, others do not. The plug-ins are a part of the extra long term value you get when you purchase this line, in my opinion. I've run a few plug-ins from time to time, but currently I don't have any installed (beta testing). Others cannot imagine going a day without several. You may want to check out the rather extensive list of free value-add options even if you "only" can use the readynas compatible ones. You don't have to install them right away or ever and you can add them over time at any time.

Well, I ordered the Boom today and decided to start SqueezeCenter on my ReadyNAS. I had some trouble getting it started with the latest ReadyNAS release, but after using the utility to wipe the database, it started right up.

But then, in the admin UI of the ReadyNAS, I found this link: http://www.readynas.com/?page_id=460.

Can anyone tell me how to tell from the running SqueezeCenter status display if I am running the "condensed" or "full" version? I am not quite sure what I did to get it running, so I don't want to update the image on the NAS unless it's clearly not the full version.

jeffmeh
2008-10-18, 07:03
Well, I ordered the Boom today and decided to start SqueezeCenter on my ReadyNAS. I had some trouble getting it started with the latest ReadyNAS release, but after using the utility to wipe the database, it started right up.

But then, in the admin UI of the ReadyNAS, I found this link: http://www.readynas.com/?page_id=460.

Can anyone tell me how to tell from the running SqueezeCenter status display if I am running the "condensed" or "full" version? I am not quite sure what I did to get it running, so I don't want to update the image on the NAS unless it's clearly not the full version.

If you are happy with the version you have, then I would not bother changing it. The "condensed" version is supposed to be optimized for the Readynas hardware. Theoretically, it should perform better, trading that against some missing features.

I would expect the version numbers to be different for the "full" and "condensed" versions. I run the "full" 7.2 on a Readynas X6, and the SC scan log it shows:

SqueezeCenter Version: 7.2 - 22900 @ Tue Aug 26 11:25:48 PDT 2008 - Netgear RAIDiator - EN - utf8
Perl Version: 5.8.8 sparc-linux
MySQL Version: 5.0.24a-Debian_3.infrant1

Balthazar_B
2008-10-18, 08:05
Thanks, everyone. I'm ordering one tomorrow.

But I'd like to hear more about what you lose using the ReadyNAS. That was a major incentive for me as I backup all my media to it and it's a good way to make it available without having to leave a machine on all the time.

I use a ReadyNAS, but only as a storage device (well, and print server too). I decided it makes more sense to run a quiet, low-power, energy-efficient box for media serving functions. This has several advantages:

(1) Because I'm not running everything on one device, a catastrophic event won't take everything down/away;

(2) I can upgrade either storage or my media box without adversely affecting the other.

(3) While the ReadyNAS is fairly quiet for a little storage device, it's still leaves much to be desired in the WAF realm. IOW, you can put your silent media server anywhere, and hide the NAS in a remote part of the house where nobody minds its noise.

(4) No compromises in SqueezeBox function as others will describe.

Separating the functions as I have (a good principle, IMHO) is a little more expensive, but I think the advantages provide greater value all around.

yobyot
2008-10-18, 14:27
If you are happy with the version you have, then I would not bother changing it. The "condensed" version is supposed to be optimized for the Readynas hardware. Theoretically, it should perform better, trading that against some missing features.

I would expect the version numbers to be different for the "full" and "condensed" versions. I run the "full" 7.2 on a Readynas X6, and the SC scan log it shows:

SqueezeCenter Version: 7.2 - 22900 @ Tue Aug 26 11:25:48 PDT 2008 - Netgear RAIDiator - EN - utf8
Perl Version: 5.8.8 sparc-linux
MySQL Version: 5.0.24a-Debian_3.infrant1

Thanks. My status display matches this exactly, so I guess I installed the full version.

yobyot
2008-10-18, 14:30
I use a ReadyNAS, but only as a storage device (well, and print server too). I decided it makes more sense to run a quiet, low-power, energy-efficient box for media serving functions. This has several advantages:

(1) Because I'm not running everything on one device, a catastrophic event won't take everything down/away;

(2) I can upgrade either storage or my media box without adversely affecting the other.

(3) While the ReadyNAS is fairly quiet for a little storage device, it's still leaves much to be desired in the WAF realm. IOW, you can put your silent media server anywhere, and hide the NAS in a remote part of the house where nobody minds its noise.

(4) No compromises in SqueezeBox function as others will describe.

Separating the functions as I have (a good principle, IMHO) is a little more expensive, but I think the advantages provide greater value all around.

Interesting. For me, the NAS device IS the little box out of the way in the basement. My ReadyNAS has been very reliable -- if fussy -- and when connected to a gigibit switch it likes, very fast at serving files.

It is slow to bring up SqueezeCenter, though I don't know how often I need to do that yet (my Boom arrives next week).

Howard Passman
2008-10-20, 02:21
...if I had kept my ReadyNAS. Plus as you expand your collection of SB's (and you will) you loose all sorts of fuctionality on those boxes such as MusicInfoScr(een saver) and SuperDateTime, which has weather and scores of games. If you get a boom the MusicInfoScr is a must in order to get what you want to display on the screen. Same with SB3.

If you're a Sirius fan, you'll miss out on that too. Not too mention programs like Moose that make sorting and playlists a snap. Very fast.

Lastly, I use my "music server" as kind of an all in one box where any associated tools for working with my music files are on there.

Howard

Infrant
2008-10-20, 15:10
We do have a limited set of plug-ins for SC that work on ReadyNAS:

There is a new PluginPack available here. It contains the following addons:
* Lazy Search Music (v3.2)
* iPeng (v0.5.1)
* LastFM / SqueezeScrobbler (v1.1.12)
* SuperDateTime Screensaver (v5.7.0)
* TrackStat (v2.4)
* Weather, Date and Time (v2.1.1)
* XM Radio Online (v2.0)
* Music Information Screen (v4.2.0)

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116482#p116482

Howard Passman
2008-10-21, 03:16
We do have a limited set of plug-ins for SC that work on ReadyNAS:

There is a new PluginPack available here. It contains the following addons:
* Lazy Search Music (v3.2)
* iPeng (v0.5.1)
* LastFM / SqueezeScrobbler (v1.1.12)
* SuperDateTime Screensaver (v5.7.0)
* TrackStat (v2.4)
* Weather, Date and Time (v2.1.1)
* XM Radio Online (v2.0)
* Music Information Screen (v4.2.0)

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116482#p116482

Please, please let me preface this with I'm not trying to sling any mud here. I bought the ReadyNAS because it was advertised as working with SC. At the time I had no experience with SC so I didn't realize it really benifits from a bit more processing power than the the Infrant solution. But that aside, when I called tech support because of an issue I got zero help. The gentleman I spoke with wasn't even aware of what SC was and after waiting a day for him to get up to speed, he told me to get my answer/solution would take two weeks. I felt this was a bit long in this day and time and I pressed him to check around to see if he couldn't find someone more familiar with SC. No such luck. I even gave him the name of one of an Infrant person who had addressed the issue on this very forum. When I spoke to him again he said he knew who that person was, but none the less, it would take two weeks.

If Infrant is serious about working with SC, then I hope they have or will dedicate some support to it and maybe have a different number to call. If you have to count on people like me who have already given up on your products because of a bad support issue, then you aren't going to do as well as you could. I sold my NAS at a substantial loss, switched to a Windows environment, spent the same amount of money to get that solution, have yet to have any issue with it, get to enjoy all of the plugins I want, use the latest SC immediately and even run beta versions. Honestly, what would you rather be doing with your time? Waiting for scans, screens to populate, updates to be available, etc. or listen to music.

Again, just my opinion, from my experience. I'm positive others have better of both.

Howard

Infrant
2008-10-21, 10:19
Howard,

I am sorry to hear about your experience and while I would love to say its not possible but the truth is contrary.

Being an ex-Infrant employee, I can understand your frustration and my only recommendation is to post to the ReadyNAS forum with regards to SC integration issues.

We train NETGEAR support personnel as best we can, but with such a dynamic partner as the SC team, you can imagine it is sometimes difficult to keep up all the new releases. Going forward we have decided to provide our build environment and more ReadyNAS units to the SC team, so hopefully they will also be able to troubleshoot in the future.

Also, if you are looking for more horsepower, the new ReadyNAS Pro (albeit a little more expensive) might be a better fit.

Howard Passman
2008-10-23, 01:58
Howard,

I am sorry to hear about your experience and while I would love to say its not possible but the truth is contrary.

Being an ex-Infrant employee, I can understand your frustration and my only recommendation is to post to the ReadyNAS forum with regards to SC integration issues.

We train NETGEAR support personnel as best we can, but with such a dynamic partner as the SC team, you can imagine it is sometimes difficult to keep up all the new releases. Going forward we have decided to provide our build environment and more ReadyNAS units to the SC team, so hopefully they will also be able to troubleshoot in the future.

Also, if you are looking for more horsepower, the new ReadyNAS Pro (albeit a little more expensive) might be a better fit.

...I'm sure ReadyNAS owners do also.

Have a great day,

Howard

Dogberry2
2008-10-27, 09:06
Regarding the SlimDevices-with-ReadyNAS debate (which never seems to go stale), there will always be some people who simply say "I didn't like it so I don't recommend it" as well as others who say "I heard it wouldn't work, so don't even try it." There will also be plenty of people who say "Works just great for me." Neither is going to be completely right or wrong; different folks get different results, is all.

So with no disrespect intended toward anyone, I'm just here to cast a vote on the "works just great for me" side. If the OP already has a ReadyNAS, I say give it a shot. My own experience has been very nearly problem-free, and I am rather skeptical that ANY platform combination is likely to work totally problem-free. It wouldn't take much time on these forums to find complaints from people using just about any hardware or OS to drive their SqueezeCenter, but that doesn't mean SC just plain doesn't work on those platforms. As for Netgear's support vis-a-vis ReadyNAS and streaming services, well, I can't comment regarding their official telephone support, because I've never needed them to help me get anything working; everything has gone smooth and easy for me. I can say that their forums and support site are topnotch, though, and have answered the few questions I've had. Like the Slim forums here, a little research and reading can provide most of what you need. I think the folks at SlimDevices and Netgear's ReadyNAS unit work pretty well together, based on my experience, and I use both forum sites as sources of information about what's going on, what features I might be able to use, and what's coming out in new releases. But I very rarely need to go looking for anything specific; the ReadyNAS just runs, and my Squeeze boxes just keep playing.

yobyot
2008-10-28, 17:15
Regarding the SlimDevices-with-ReadyNAS debate (which never seems to go stale), there will always be some people who simply say "I didn't like it so I don't recommend it" as well as others who say "I heard it wouldn't work, so don't even try it." There will also be plenty of people who say "Works just great for me." Neither is going to be completely right or wrong; different folks get different results, is all.

So with no disrespect intended toward anyone, I'm just here to cast a vote on the "works just great for me" side. If the OP already has a ReadyNAS, I say give it a shot. My own experience has been very nearly problem-free, and I am rather skeptical that ANY platform combination is likely to work totally problem-free. It wouldn't take much time on these forums to find complaints from people using just about any hardware or OS to drive their SqueezeCenter, but that doesn't mean SC just plain doesn't work on those platforms. As for Netgear's support vis-a-vis ReadyNAS and streaming services, well, I can't comment regarding their official telephone support, because I've never needed them to help me get anything working; everything has gone smooth and easy for me. I can say that their forums and support site are topnotch, though, and have answered the few questions I've had. Like the Slim forums here, a little research and reading can provide most of what you need. I think the folks at SlimDevices and Netgear's ReadyNAS unit work pretty well together, based on my experience, and I use both forum sites as sources of information about what's going on, what features I might be able to use, and what's coming out in new releases. But I very rarely need to go looking for anything specific; the ReadyNAS just runs, and my Squeeze boxes just keep playing.

Well, I am the OP and I have had a good experience with the ReadyNAS NV+ and my Boom...but that's only because I am very technical and self-sufficient.

I doubt for example, that people who don't read these forums would ever be able to get their iTunes libraries scanned on the NAS, as you have to edit the XML to change the paths to the actual paths on the NAS if you also run SC on it. This is just one example.

Bottom line: these two things do work well togehter, at least for me. But you have to enjoy putting to very-non-consumer-oriented pieces of tech together yourself.