PDA

View Full Version : SB3 suddenly stops connecting after 2 years



Andrew B.
2008-10-07, 14:23
I've had a SB3 running perfectly on a wireless network here (UK) for 2 years now. All of a sudden it has stopped connecting to the network. Nothing has changed in the network settings or PC settings. I did download Squeezecenter 7.2 a week or so ago but it has worked fine since that installation. Having spent 2 hours tearing my hair out trying to eliminate the obvious, I am on the point of giving up...

Here is the configuration:

SB3 connected wirelessly to D-Link DSL-604T modem/router. Network uses static IPs and 64 bit WEP security. PC running Squeezecenter is connected via ethernet to router.

This afternoon, I came to the SB3 and its screen was blank. It was plugged in but there was no display. So I pulled out the power cord, waited 10 seconds, and put it back in. The usual startup/setup display appeared. I pointed it at the wireless network (it found the SSID fine). The SB3 recognised that the network was encrypted and offered me the opportunity to enter the WEP key, which I did. It then tried to connect and failed. I checked the WEP key, restarted the router and even uninstalled and reinstalled Squeezecenter for good measure - not that that was really relevant since the SB3 hadn't even connected to the network properly.

Still no progress. The current settings showed that it was trying to use DHCP and it wasn't offering me a way to use static IPs so I changed the router to run its DHCP server, which I then tested with an iPod Touch. I did a factory reset of the SB3 then went through the same setup procedure. STILL no connection to the network. So then I disabled the WEP security from the router and tried again. The SB3 realised during the setup phase that there was no WEP security enabled, so it didn't ask me for the WEP key, but STILL it wouldn't connect to the network. My iPod touch connected fine.

I did a second factory reset on the SB3 but still no success. So I am out of ideas. There is nothing wrong with the network. The SB3 has 73% wireless signal strength (it tells me) and other wireless devices connect fine. It can't be a static IP issue or a security issue.

What could be wrong? Is it time to throw the SB3 away?

Thanks

Andrew

CatBus
2008-10-07, 14:35
Could be limited to wireless. Try it wired and see what happens.

If it's just wireless, try your standard channel/placement shuffle to see if maybe something changed in your environment (ie your neighbor's new wireless-N router is clobbering your SB3). If the wireless is truly dead, and you truly need wireless, then you can still buy a wireless bridge and not have to throw the SB3 away.

Seriously if it works wired and you want to throw it away, I'll pay the shipping for you to send it to me instead ;)

Andrew B.
2008-10-07, 16:01
Tried it wired. Can't find the Squeezecenter server at 192.168.1.9. My iPod Touch finds it fine using mobile Safari.

I'm starting to wonder whether there is some kind of firmware conflict from the combination of the factory reset on the SB3 plus latest SC software. Not sure though, since I would thought it would retain the new firmware on a reset. It's reporting firmware version 112.

So I'm still stumped.

Andrew

CatBus
2008-10-07, 20:09
Doesn't sound good but I wouldn't give up hope yet. I'd do all my testing using the least complicated possible scenario. In this case, a crossover cable directly from the SB3 to the SqueezeCenter. (Don't use a normal patch cable!)

Set both the server and client to static IP's on the same subnet (sounds like you've already done this but bear with me).

If you can't get it working like that, you may have yourself a paperweight.

If you can, just work your way backwards until you find the problem. Switch your wireless network to an open network, and then try it wireless. Then add the WEP key (or, honestly, switch to WPA if you can...).

Andrew B.
2008-10-08, 00:47
Thanks for the replies. I have made a little progress. When I tried to connect "wired" last night, I was actually using our powerline network, which has been fine for networking PCs. As I say above, the SB3 still didn't work in that scenario. But this morning I carried the SB3 back to the router and plugged it in directly to the router with a CAT5 cable - bingo! All worked normally and perfectly.

So I tried wireless again from right next to the router (97% signal strength) - same problem as before, simply can't connect to network.

So it must be something to do with the wireless part of the SB3. Not sure why it won't work over Powerline networking, since all the PCs and PS3 I have function flawlessly over that system.

Andrew

Andrew B.
2008-10-08, 03:37
OK. Now I am confused again. I took the SB3 round to a mate's house. He has an SB3 on a wireless network with mac filtering and 128bit WEP but DHCP rather than static IPs. My SB3 worked fine on his network wirelessly, once we had allowed its MAC address and given it the right WEP key.

So logically it must be a fault with my wireless network, even though the network is working perfectly for laptops and iPod Touch.

Very confusing/ frustrating.

Andrew

radish
2008-10-08, 05:03
Have you reset the router? They often get in a bad state w.r.t. wireless in my experience.

lrossouw
2008-10-08, 05:44
My one sb3 has some "issues" and has managed to change its mac address. This could possibly issues if you have mac filtering/static ip? I could be wrong though.

A router reset is also good idea. I assume you are connecting fine to router over wifi via the ipod touch? Once you have reset check on the router's list of clients (via its web interface) if the sb3 is showing up and getting a ip address.

Andrew B.
2008-10-08, 08:46
Partial success. I now have managed to get the SB3 working provided that the WEP is switched off. This was after resetting the router and downloading some updated firmware for the router.

BUT it still refuses to work in my house with either 64 bit WEP or 128bit WEP. I am sure that the keys are correct. It worked fine in my mate's house with 128 bit WEP and it was working fine in this house with 64 bit WEP for two years, so I really don't have a clue what could be wrong. I don't really want to run an entirely unsecured network, just so that I can listen to my music in the living room.

Anyone got any more ideas? I emailed Logitech support yesterday but have had no response so far other than the automated ones.

Thanks

Andrew

androidtopp
2008-10-08, 09:01
This is not a terribly helpful suggestion, but you could try moving to WPA? I have had zero issues with an SB3 and an SBB using both WPA and WPA2 pre-shared keys. WEP is prone to cracking anyway, so WPA is a more secure solution, so long as all your gear supports it.

Anyway, switching to WPA might rule out a "doesn't worth with any encryption" vs a "doesn't work with WEP" issue. Although if WEP works at your friend's house, and not at yours, I would suspect that the router is, for some very odd reason...not working with your SB3.

Andrew

CatBus
2008-10-08, 09:07
If you can reset your router back to factory defaults and then set it up again, this may help. Some setting like MAC filtering may have gotten accidentally turned on and may be getting in the way.

Agree WPA is the way to go unless you really need to run a low-security WEP network for some other device.

Goodsounds
2008-10-08, 09:17
[QUOTE=Andrew B.;348000]

...Anyone got any more ideas? ... /QUOTE]

Yes, try another router. They're cheap, and at first pass that would seem to be the problem.

Andrew B.
2008-10-08, 09:25
[QUOTE=Andrew B.;348000]

...Anyone got any more ideas? ... /QUOTE]

Yes, try another router. They're cheap, and at first pass that would seem to be the problem.

I think you are right. What would people recommend as being reliable with SB3 and generally good? It needs to be an ADSL modem too.

I tried WPA and that didn't work either...

Andrew

Andrew B.
2008-10-09, 07:27
I bought a new router (Netgear DG834GT) and even though the wireless signal is slightly worse than my old one, the SB3 now works perfectly, even running WPA encryption.

No idea why the old one stopped playing nicely with the SB3 but at least the problem is solved...

Thanks

Andrew

Andrew B.
2008-10-09, 14:50
I spoke too soon. The SB3 has now developed a habit of losing connection to Squeezecenter randomly. Sometimes when it is playing and other times when it is paused. The screen just goes blank and then when you press a button on the remote the SB3 gives the message about not being connected to the network (press right to try again). When I press right it does indeed try again and normally connects more or less straight away.

But then it loses the connection again a short time later. It's almost as if it is going to sleep somehow. Could it be a connection in the router?

SO frustrating!

Andrew

mvalera
2008-10-09, 15:08
You might want to contact support for further assistance:

http://slimdevices.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/slimdevices.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php

Mike

Andrew B.
2008-10-09, 15:58
Thanks Mike. I am in a dialog(ue) with support already.

I seem to have made a breakthrough though. I switched my router channel to 7 (from 1) since this is apparently one of only 3 truly separate channels in Europe (1, 7, 13) - it would be the equivalent of channel 6 on a US system. I also switched the router setting from "b and g" to "g only".

This has improved the wireless reception to 81% and I have had no more blank screens and disconnects in the last half hour. Let's see how that continues...

Useful Netgear link on wireless channel spacing:
http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101374.asp

Andrew

Andrew B.
2008-11-24, 03:01
Well here I am with the new router and unfortunately the problem is continuing, if not worsening. Quite often now (like every hour) the SB3 stops responding to remote control commands or becomes extremely sluggish (it isn't the batteries BTW). It loses its connection to Squeezecenter and then sometimes manages to restart automatically immediately and sometimes doesn't.

Something strange I've noticed on the PC recently too is that sometimes Squeezecenter doesn't seem to start properly - it just shows the "starting" graphic and text (when you mouse hover) for ages. And just now when I installed an updated version of iTunes, Squeezecenter just shut itself down in disgust. Now I feel much the same way about iTunes but I do need to have it on this PC for the kids.

Next step is to downgrade Squeezecenter and the firmware (if that's possible?) to an old version that was stable because I'm thinking that this is actually a server issue rather than a SB3 one.

Any more thoughts anyone? Support couldn't come up with any answers last time I tried. I may give them another go if the software downgrade doesn't work. This is REALLY FRUSTRATING since I love my SB3 and up until two months ago would have recommended it to anyone who would listen. I sold a 4,000 CD player after I got the SB3, since I liked it so much. Now I can't play music!!!

Andrew

Andrew B.
2008-11-24, 11:16
Did a clean uninstall then went back to Slimserver 6.5.4 which put back the firmware. Still had problems. So I did another uninstall and went back to the latest non-beta Squeezecenter, which I was running before. This time it had trouble updating the firmware. On the first attempt it froze. On the second attempt it came up with an error that I had never seen before on the screen of the SB3 (I think it said "bad status"). But the third time of holding the Brightness button down worked through to the end and the device has been fine for the last hour.

Fingers crossed....

Andrew

Mark Lanctot
2008-11-24, 13:07
I have read that strange problems like this are sometimes caused by the wireless card in the SB working loose. You can (temporarily) try wired networking to see if it will go away in order to isolate a wireless problem, but if the card is loose it'll still cause erratic behaviour in a wired SB.

Given that your SB is now out of warranty, you may want to check it out before giving up completely. To open the SB, you need a Torx screwdriver, although I'm not sure what size. But just push the wireless card in its mini-PCI slot in a bit and see that it isn't loose.

Hopefully you don't need to do this, but if it starts acting up again it's worth a try.

pablolie
2008-11-24, 13:19
Did a clean uninstall then went back to Slimserver 6.5.4 which put back the firmware. Still had problems. So I did another uninstall and went back to the latest non-beta Squeezecenter, which I was running before. This time it had trouble updating the firmware. On the first attempt it froze. On the second attempt it came up with an error that I had never seen before on the screen of the SB3 (I think it said "bad status"). But the third time of holding the Brightness button down worked through to the end and the device has been fine for the last hour.

Fingers crossed....

Andrew

Does the SB3 respond more readily if controlled from the SC? What combination of SC and SB3 are you running? And since you did get a new wireless router, did you get the latest firmware for your router?

I am asking because you seem to have changed several things at once.

I am not *that* surprised that WEP wore out its welcome, support for it is starting to become a bit patchier. I think these days most devices are more stable when using WPA, but some routers still require a firmware update for widest WPA compatibilty, as do end devices.

So step number one is ensure you have solid wireless connectivity, which I would define as the ability to run network test at 2Mbit/s for a long period of time without errors.

Once that is the case, I would look at the relationship between SC and the SB3, which can get unstable at times. It is not often, but in my 3+ years using SB3s I would say that I have had to uninstall *everything* about 4 times. Meaning factory reset the SB3, uninstall SC and erase preferences, and start from scratch. The reason for that was mysterious and inexplicable sudden loss of connectivity, and just as in your case, weird effects all around. It can happen. But before you do that, ensure that connectivity is solid.

DeVerm
2008-11-24, 14:09
I have read that strange problems like this are sometimes caused by the wireless card in the SB working loose. You can (temporarily) try wired networking to see if it will go away in order to isolate a wireless problem, but if the card is loose it'll still cause erratic behaviour in a wired SB.

Given that your SB is now out of warranty, you may want to check it out before giving up completely. To open the SB, you need a Torx screwdriver, although I'm not sure what size. But just push the wireless card in its mini-PCI slot in a bit and see that it isn't loose.

Hopefully you don't need to do this, but if it starts acting up again it's worth a try.

I would advise to go just a little further: remove the card, air-dust it and put it back again. The removing and putting back action will clean the contacts a bit. If you see dirty contacts on the card, clean them with pencil-eraser (if that's how it is called in English ;-).

ciao!
Nick.

tnagy
2008-12-20, 01:18
Hi,

I've had two Squeezeboxes for about two years now and I just had a similar problem happen to me about two months after I moved into a new place.

One of them kept going blank while on the clock screensaver. When playing songs, the screen would also go blank from time to time but songs would keep playing.

I tried isolating the problem by pinging from my Squeezecenter to the router and to the Squeezebox; even when I wouldn't be losing any pings to either location, the Squeezebox screen would go blank.

When I upgraded recently to 7.3, instead of a blank screen I'd get the message saying hit right to retry the connection to Squeezecenter.

After messing around with it quite a bit, I changed wireless channels (to three different ones before finding one that worked well) and things have gotten a lot better.

I know that you tried changing channels, but I wanted to add that I had problems even when pings were working. If this happens again, I'm going to invest in a power line networking device to plug the Squeezebox in question directly into the router via my power jacks.

Regards,
Tim