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bluespiano28
2008-09-28, 07:42
I currently have all my cds burnt onto laptop in flac format. I would like to be able to play these in my car so the obvious choice is an ipod and then connect this to a car stereo.

Is it worth keeping everything in flac to play in my car or would I really not notice any difference if they're in mp3?

I love flac and really notice a difference on my stereo in the house - just wondered if anyone else has experience of playing flac in cars and if you can still hear the difference.

Thanks

toby10
2008-09-28, 07:55
I currently have all my cds burnt onto laptop in flac format. I would like to be able to play these in my car so the obvious choice is an ipod and then connect this to a car stereo.

Is it worth keeping everything in flac to play in my car or would I really not notice any difference if they're in mp3?

I love flac and really notice a difference on my stereo in the house - just wondered if anyone else has experience of playing flac in cars and if you can still hear the difference.

Thanks

I know some of the new car head units like Alpine are incorporating FLAC playback support. But I think the general consensus would be that a high quality MP3 would be hard to differentiate from lossless audio in a car environment with all the inherent ambient noise.

But from a simplicity and organizational standpoint (not having to keep two formats synced & updated) it may well be worth it to stick with your single FLAC rips for car use. :)

radish
2008-09-28, 08:13
Of course stock ipods don't play FLAC, so you'd either have to transcode or install rockbox.

bluespiano28
2008-09-28, 08:19
Of course stock ipods don't play FLAC, so you'd either have to transcode or install rockbox.

Yes I know thank you - would prob convert into apple lossless on my computer first. It's just it would mean the difference between getting an 80gb ipod to play mp3s or a 160gb ipod to play in lossless!

Thanks for your help

autopilot
2008-09-28, 08:25
Personally, i just use high quality VBR LAME MP3's created from my FLAC library with DBpowerAMP.

Lossless is wasted on an iPod; the very average DAC, not-so-great headphone AMP, compressed circuitry and lack of a proper line-out means the difference between high bitrate MP3/AAC and lossless is almost entirely negated. And thats not even taking into account the inherent issues with in car noise etc. Add the fact you can carry much more music and using ALAC just seems a bit silly to me.

Also, if we are talking about the iPod Classic (which i assume we are as it would be pretty pointless on the limited storage of the nano/touch), lossless files will drain the battery faster and reduce the iPod's life span due to increased HDD access - but thats not so much of an issue in a car with a power supply always handy.

BTW, rockbox Version 3 is now out but still no support for the new iPods or the last generation, so there is no way of playing FLAC's.

bluespiano28
2008-09-28, 08:30
Personally, i just use high quality VBR LAME MP3's created from my FLAC library with DBpowerAMP. BTW, rockbox Version 3 is now out but still no support for the new iPods or the last generation, so there is no way of playing FLAC's.

Lossless is wasted on an iPod; the very average DAC, not-so-great headphone AMP, compressed circuitry and lack of a proper line-out means the difference between high bitrate MP3/AAC and lossless is almost entirely negated. As thats not even talking into account the inherent issues with in car noise etc. Add the fact you can carry much more music and using ALAC just seems a bit silly to me.

Also, if we are talking about the iPod Classic (which i assume we are as it would be pretty pointless on the limited storage of the nano/touch), lossless files will drain the battery faster and reduce the iPod's life span due to increased HDD access - but thats not so much of an issue in a car with a power supply always handy.

Thank you that is a very interesting point - I don't want to spend more money only to not notice a difference

Heuer
2008-09-28, 09:49
I have a car with a high quality sound system and I use an iPod with songs in MP3 format. I tried FLAC but with all the other noises going on around you it was impossible to tell the difference between FLAC and MP3. Also, unless your iPod is powered from the car, battery life is about 4 hours with FLAC and 15 hours with MP3.

Eric Seaberg
2008-09-28, 10:38
I have a car with a high quality sound system and I use an iPod with songs in MP3 format. I tried FLAC but with all the other noises going on around you it was impossible to tell the difference between FLAC and MP3. Also, unless your iPod is powered from the car, battery life is about 4 hours with FLAC and 15 hours with MP3.

Exactly!! Road noise alone would mask any differences there may be. I transcode to 128kAAC files for my iPods and have never been disappointed. That's still a LOT better than what is received on XM Radio, and I'm on that more than anything else, actually.

Themis
2008-09-28, 11:09
Yes I know thank you - would prob convert into apple lossless on my computer first. It's just it would mean the difference between getting an 80gb ipod to play mp3s or a 160gb ipod to play in lossless!
Thanks for your helpI used to convert certain (important) albums in apple lossless and keep the rest in 320 CBR. I ended up deciding -as others already stated in this thread- that usual 16-20kHz frequencies which are mainly cut from 320 CBR are not audible in a car environment.
So, now, everything is in a 320CBR.

(and my friends could attest that I'm rather fussy when it comes to my listening experience ^^)

niuphan
2008-09-28, 12:45
I keep my entire collection lossless and prefer not to transfer or hold on to lossy copies. It doesn't really matter to me if you can't tell the difference in the car. I choose to give my money to companies who support lossless audio.

Themis
2008-09-28, 13:08
Talking about cars, what really changes an iPod's sound in cars is using a dock-cable like this http://www.amazon.com/Cables-4-Feet-Stereo-Connector-Cable/dp/B000JG3WBY/ref=pd_bbs_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1222632316&sr=8-11 or this http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-35508-Connector-3-5mm/dp/B000J022G6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1222632316&sr=8-3

Nonreality
2008-09-28, 14:00
Personally, i just use high quality VBR LAME MP3's created from my FLAC library with DBpowerAMP.

Lossless is wasted on an iPod; the very average DAC, not-so-great headphone AMP, compressed circuitry and lack of a proper line-out means the difference between high bitrate MP3/AAC and lossless is almost entirely negated. And thats not even taking into account the inherent issues with in car noise etc. Add the fact you can carry much more music and using ALAC just seems a bit silly to me.

Also, if we are talking about the iPod Classic (which i assume we are as it would be pretty pointless on the limited storage of the nano/touch), lossless files will drain the battery faster and reduce the iPod's life span due to increased HDD access - but thats not so much of an issue in a car with a power supply always handy.

BTW, rockbox Version 3 is now out but still no support for the new iPods or the last generation, so there is no way of playing FLAC's.
You need to get a cable with a dock connector to mini headphone connector if that is how your car stereo connects. This bypass's the headphone amp in the ipod and uses line level output. It makes a huge difference in volume and sound quality. You can get them at amazon for about $10 shipped.

Nonreality
2008-09-28, 14:02
Talking about cars, what really changes an iPod's sound in cars is using a dock-cable like this http://www.amazon.com/Cables-4-Feet-Stereo-Connector-Cable/dp/B000JG3WBY/ref=pd_bbs_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1222632316&sr=8-11 or this http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-35508-Connector-3-5mm/dp/B000J022G6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1222632316&sr=8-3
Wow Themis, great minds think alike. :) I responded to this before I got to your post.

Themis
2008-09-28, 14:21
Wow Themis, great minds think alike. :) I responded to this before I got to your post.Two different speeds, same destination. ;)

muski
2008-09-28, 22:52
I recently purchased a 160gb iPod Classic from amazon.com. As they are discontinued, there are some price breaks ($279 for silver one). I did transcode my entire FLAC collection to ALAC (using iTunesEncode and Foobar2000). It drives me crazy that this has to be done, but there seemed to be no other choice. I have it connected to the B&O system in my Audi A5, and it is a pretty great source (esp. compared to the wretched Sirius radio!).

I did wonder if going lossless was really worth it. However, given I had to transcode anyway, I figured why not. It's true that the iPod DAC is so-so, but I am very interested in trying out the Wadia 170 iTransport, which somehow gets digital-out from an iPod (not that it would replace my Transporter). My real dream is that a high-end headphone amp company like Headroom or iQube will make a portable, integrated DAC/amp that also somehow accessed an IPod digital out signal. Then the lossless ALAC files would be the only way to go.

muski

Nonreality
2008-09-29, 02:45
You know, anyone that has a car that is so quiet that they can tell the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a flac file should have people that can make sure their system works well for that car. Other than that, mp3 at that level or even less should work just fine.

peter
2008-09-29, 07:02
Nonreality wrote:
> You know, anyone that has a car that is so quiet that they can tell the
> difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a flac file should have people
> that can make sure their system works well for that car. Other than
> that, mp3 at that level or even less should work just fine.
>

If I turn my amp up high enough, my car becomes perfectly quiet.

X.

Jeff Flowerday
2008-09-29, 08:56
I have to disagree that you can't tell the difference between 320vbr and lossless in Cars. It really depends on the car and the amount of road noise transferred to the cabin.

My current cars factory head unit play wma lossles native off a USB key. I did a back to back comparison between lossless and 320kbps vbr and was actually surprised that I could hear a difference. My last car had DVD-A support and it was night day different than regular CDs.

That said I couldn't tell the difference on my Zune or computer speakers. So as mentioned above the sub par DAC and headphone amp in iPods and such are more the limiting factor.

exile
2008-09-29, 09:00
I have to disagree that you can't tell the difference between 320vbr and lossless in Cars. It really depends on the car and the amount of road noise transferred to the cabin.

With all due respect, that's just plain audiophile gibberish.

Jeff Flowerday
2008-09-29, 09:05
With all due respect, that's just plain audiophile gibberish.

Define audiophile for me, please?

exile
2008-09-29, 09:17
After hangin' out in this forum for a couple of years I don't know exactly what the definition of audiophile is. I just know that in my own driving experience on the california freeway system, I can barely hear myself think much less discern the difference between an mp3 or lossless audio file. If you live somewhere quiet enough to make that distinction consider yourself blessed.

Jeff Flowerday
2008-09-29, 09:38
After hangin' out in this forum for a couple of years I don't know exactly what the definition of audiophile is. I just know that in my own driving experience on the california freeway system, I can barely hear myself think much less discern the difference between an mp3 or lossless audio file. If you live somewhere quiet enough to make that distinction consider yourself blessed.

Fair enough. But as I stated not all cars are made equal...

Themis
2008-09-29, 11:03
I did a back to back comparison between lossless and 320kbps vbr and was actually surprised that I could hear a difference. Then you made the good choice. Everybody should test for oneself. ;)
My last car had DVD-A support and it was night day different than regular CDs.That's still something else : when a car can have a DVD-A dac, then, there's probably a difference with the CD playback, no doubt ! :)

luckyemily
2011-09-01, 22:30
I just find a step by step guide on how to play FLAC on iPod in lossless or lossy way at http://www.bigasoft.com/articles/how-to-play-flac-on-ipod.html

This guide applies to:

* Convert FLAC to Apple Lossless or AIFF to play lossless FLAC on iPod Touch, iPod Shuffle, iPod Nano, iPod Classic, iPod Mini, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPad, iPad2, iTunes, Quicktime, iMovie, FCP, FCE.
* Convert FLAC to MP3 to play FLAC on iPhone/iPad/iTunes/iPod/Quicktime/iMovie/FCP/FCE/Windows Media Player in lossy way.
* Convert FLAC to other audio formats including lossy AC3, AU, M4A, MP2, OGG, RA, and WMA.