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View Full Version : Replacing duet with classic - am I crazy?



rybber
2008-09-25, 06:52
Hi

I have been a happy Squeezebox Classic (SB3) owner for a couple of years now. Unfortunately it was dropped on the floor, resulting in a ruptured VFD display = useless SB.

Logitech Europe had no way of repairing it so they offered me a discount on a new SB. I opted for the SB duet.

Having used the duet for a couple of months has left me nothing but frustrated. I'm thinking about selling it and getting another classic, because of these annoyances:

- When I feel like changing music, I often have to wait for the remote to connect or to power up.
- Wireless range (reception) on the remote seems poor, so I'm often not able to reach the server.
- The remote OS has substantial lag (often due to poor WiFi signal) and is therefore sluggish.
- The remote battery drains pretty fast. Like 3-4 days without using it much.
- When the remote battery is dead, placing it in the charger doesn't seem to charge it - I need to turn it on first.

So all in all I feel the duet is a major downgrade from a usability point of view. Occasionally having to lift my butt to get into line-of-sight range with the old remote seems preferable to me.

Am I doing the right thing or have I comepletely missed out on how "good" the duet really is?

iPhone
2008-09-25, 07:15
My first question would be, do you have a need for more then one Squeezebox? If yes, then keep the Duet and buy a Classic.


Having used the duet for a couple of months has left me nothing but frustrated. I'm thinking about selling it and getting another classic, because of these annoyances:

- When I feel like changing music, I often have to wait for the remote to connect or to power up.
This is part of the power saving feature. It is normal and yes a small annoyance.

- Wireless range (reception) on the remote seems poor, so I'm often not able to reach the server.
Can you move your wireless router to a better spot to improve coverage? How old is your wireless router? A simple update to a new router could fix this. It could also be other WiFi networks interfering. Have your tried using different channels? Have you checked to see what other networks your computer can see and what channel they are on? Remember the Duet is about a basic as WiFi gets. Being able to use a laptop in the same location one wants to use a Controller does not mean the Controller will work there also.

- The remote OS has substantial lag (often due to poor WiFi signal) and is therefore sluggish.
See answer above.

- The remote battery drains pretty fast. Like 3-4 days without using it much.
Try changing your power saving settings to improve battery life. Fixing the reception issue will really help battery life by reducing WiFi useage.

- When the remote battery is dead, placing it in the charger doesn't seem to charge it - I need to turn it on first.
Check your settings, this is not normal.


So all in all I feel the duet is a major downgrade from a usability point of view. Occasionally having to lift my butt to get into line-of-sight range with the old remote seems preferable to me.

Am I doing the right thing or have I comepletely missed out on how "good" the duet really is?
At present I would probably feel the same way with your problems. Most of this should go away and give you a good Duet experience if you can improve your WiFi enviroment.

rybber
2008-09-25, 07:48
Hi and thanks for your answer

- I only need one SB for now.
- I'm not prepaired to move my Wifi router, but perhaps get another as extender.
- Some of the time I use the remote in good WiFi conditions, but the other annoyances are still there.

FredFredrickson
2008-09-25, 08:03
I can say for the battery problem- put your controller back in the cradle nightly. That will solve your issue there.

Turn down your power settings- it will drain your battery faster, but will get rid of that annoying reconnection every time you use the controller.

My controller picks up my network perfectly- same range as my laptop. Try changing the channel of your network.

The controller should charge automatically no matter what state it's in, when you put it in the cradle..

SuperQ
2008-09-25, 08:31
Yea, I just keep my controller in the cradle when I'm not using it.. It adds the added bonus of not going to sleep, and is protected from my cats curious paws.

Cabe
2008-09-25, 08:37
I'm surprised that Logi/SD don't try to enable the use WDS on their devices.

Implementation is admittedly a non-trivial thing, especially given the problems with cross-vendor compatibility but it would solve an awful lot of these WiFi related problems.

what_to_buy
2008-09-25, 10:00
You could just go wired for the receiver. I just bought ethernet powerline adapters (plug the router in to one and plug the receiver into the other - ethernet connection, but through your electrical outlets!), and it's so nice not to have to worry about wireless signal strength anymore! Granted they cost about $100 US (plus or minus).

ModelCitizen
2008-09-25, 12:14
I have a Transporter, SB3, Receiver, Boom and two Controllers.

Although I have no real problems with the controllers I find remote/SB3/Transporter set up quicker to use and more reliable. I like being able to just look up from wherever I am in a room to see the SB3 display. I like the responsiveness of the remote and the fact that the numerous buttons make it much quicker to navigate long lists reliably (without overshooting!). I also like the assured reliability of the remote. It always works, whatever.

I like the controllers too though, especially for artwork and readabilty of text such as long comments fields and Last.fm stuff.

MC

TiredLegs
2008-09-26, 02:54
I looked at the Duet at a trade show, but decided that I prefer the Classic. I don't need the fancy interface on the Controller. And IR remote controls are way more bulletproof than any WiFi remote I've seen. No lag, no configuration issues, IR just works.

gen-ik
2008-09-26, 03:25
I made the move from Duet to Classic, and am now much happier. The concept of the Duet is good, but in practice it proved to be annoying, largely to the reasons the OP described.

I also found that the additional clutter of one more remote controller was not so great, I much prefer controlling all my audio devices with my universal remote (Logitech Harmony 785), including the SB Classic.

sand
2008-09-26, 04:19
Are there any plans to phase out the Classic in favour of the new Duet, in the near future..?

ModelCitizen
2008-09-26, 04:22
Are there any plans to phase out the Classic in favour of the new Duet, in the near future..?
Now that's a good question.
I sincerely hope not. It would be a mistake.

MC

peter
2008-09-26, 05:58
ModelCitizen wrote:
> sand;344284 Wrote:
>
>> Are there any plans to phase out the Classic in favour of the new Duet,
>> in the near future..?
>>
> Now that's a good question.
> I sincerely hope not. It would be a mistake.
>

It would be a serious mistake indeed. I really like the controller (you
guys either have much smaller rooms or much better eyes than me) but I
definitely want the screen and the IR remote, if only for controlling my
mythtv setup with it.

Regards,
Peter

rybber
2008-09-27, 08:23
Thanks for you comments, guys.

I think I will put the duet up for sale and get a classic. The speed that you are able to find song with on the classic is worth more than fancy artwork and out-of-room access to me.

SJobson
2008-09-27, 09:01
I looked at the Duet at a trade show, but decided that I prefer the Classic. I don't need the fancy interface on the Controller. And IR remote controls are way more bulletproof than any WiFi remote I've seen. No lag, no configuration issues, IR just works.I feel the same - bought a Duet on a whim to replace my SB3, but it just didn't feel as nice to use and was far more awkward to set up. I like the display on the SB3 too; the obvious place to look for what is playing is at the stereo, not at a remote.

Fortunately I was able to sell it on to a friend who wanted a Duet for no loss, within a couple of days.

I'm now waiting for PC World to get some more Classics in stock at 129 so I can buy one for the kitchen...

amcluesent
2008-09-27, 11:37
I'd direct noobs to the classic too. The SBR was engineered down to a price, maybe due to the SBC being so costly. IMHO they went too far.

morris_minor
2008-09-27, 11:55
ModelCitizen wrote:
> sand;344284 Wrote:
>
>> Are there any plans to phase out the Classic in favour of the new Duet,
>> in the near future..?
>>
> Now that's a good question.
> I sincerely hope not. It would be a mistake.
>

It would be a serious mistake indeed. I really like the controller (you
guys either have much smaller rooms or much better eyes than me) but I
definitely want the screen and the IR remote, if only for controlling my
mythtv setup with it.

Regards,
Peter

I agree. Discontinuing the Classic would be a mistake. However nice the controller is to use - and it is! - taking WiFi out of the equation for controlling it is a definite plus for the Classic, and having the display to confirm the choices you make is good for inexperienced squeezeboxers. The receiver definitely has its place in the lineup, but if one product had to be dropped I'd vote for the receiver anytime. Hopefully Slim/Logi can continue with both . . .

Themis
2008-09-27, 15:02
BTW, does anyone know whether the response time of the Duet Remote depends on the SqueezeCenter's response time ? Or is it always slower than the classic remote ?

pfarrell
2008-09-27, 15:07
Themis wrote:
> BTW, does anyone know whether the response time of the Duet Remote
> depends on the SqueezeCenter's response time ? Or is it always slower
> than the classic remote ?

Both the Duet remote and the SB Classic remote require processing by the
SqueezeCenter. The SBC is fairly dumb, it just passes the commands to
the server, and then the server does its thing.

iPhone
2008-09-27, 15:23
I like the display on the SB3 too; the obvious place to look for what is playing is at the stereo, not at a remote....

And there in lies the problem. IT IS NOT A REMOTE. It is a Controller. It includes the functions of a remote, but since it is a Controller it does so much more. Out of all of my Slim Devices, the Transporter is about the only one I use the display on now that I have a Controller. I will glance at the Boom display if I am laying in bed, but then pick up the Controller to do any changes other then volume which I use the knob for.

If you think you can't then you will fail, if you think you can, then imagination is the limit. If you think the Controller is only a remote, then to you IT is ONLY a remote.

Try changing the way the Controller is thought of and it will become more functional.

EDIT: And Pat is correct. No matter what input command device one uses, all the processing takes place on the server whether that is SC or SN. One must remember that as far as commands go, all the Slim Devices units are server command receiving devices (read not Smart Devices). IR input devices only pass the command through the Slim Device to the server, the server sends instructions back to the device. The Controller talks to the server which sends the instructions to the device.

Themis
2008-09-27, 15:43
Thanks a lot for the info, both of you ! :)

pfarrell
2008-09-27, 15:56
iPhone wrote:
> And there in lies the problem. IT IS NOT A REMOTE. It is a Controller.
>
> Try changing the way the Controller is thought of and it will become
> more functional.

I almost never use the remote that came with any of my Squeezeboxen, Not
the SB, not the Transporter, and not the boom. I use the Controller to
rule them all

sebp
2008-09-27, 16:08
Both the Duet remote and the SB Classic remote require processing by the SqueezeCenter. The SBC is fairly dumb, it just passes the commands to the server, and then the server does its thing.
You're right, but the OP complaint remains valid.

When the Controller is awaken, response time is the same as when using the IR remote.
But in my own experience, when it went to sleep, awaiting for it to be completely operational can take up to 30-45 seconds.

Since the IR remote never goes to sleep, its response times seem statistically better.

peterw
2008-09-27, 16:09
EDIT: And Pat is correct. No matter what input command device one uses, all the processing takes place on the server whether that is SC or SN.

All the processing? That's not quite what Pat said, and it's a bit misleading. There's a lot of intelligence on the Controller, which is one reason its user interface is so nice and snappy. Downside is that, for technical and legal reasons, it's a LOT harder for 3rd party developers to make changes to the way the Controller interface operates, and what is shown on its display. If the Controller does what you want, it's great. If you want it to do something considerably different, you could be out of luck. Despite the Controller relying on Linux and other Free Software, it's nowhere near as adaptable as the Classic/Boom/Transporter.

-Peter

pfarrell
2008-09-27, 16:17
sebp wrote:
> When the Controller is awaken, response time is the same as when using
> the IR remote. But in my own experience, when it went to sleep, awaiting for it to be
> completely operational can take up to 30-45 seconds.

I can't argue about your experience. I've never noticed anything close
to that long. I just keep my Controller in the charging stand, pick it
up and press buttons. Works great for me.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/