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Labarum
2008-09-14, 11:15
Will SB stream at better that 16/44.1 or 16/48?

If not, then it will not stream a Studio Master from Gimmel or Linn Records

I saw those figures quoted on one page of specs.

bhaagensen
2008-09-14, 11:21
The SB3, Duet Receiver and Boom support up to 24/48. Transporter up to 24/96.

You can downsample the files in Audacity or some other software.

Labarum
2008-09-14, 11:28
The SB3, Duet Receiver and Boom support up to 24/48. Transporter up to 24/96.

You can downsample the files in Audacity or some other software.

That leaves me rather unimpressed. Thanks for the information.

bhaagensen
2008-09-14, 11:36
That leaves me rather unimpressed.

Why do you feel so?

Labarum
2008-09-14, 11:46
Why do you feel so?

I am considering the way forward. Yes, at the moment almost all my music is on CD, and some of that is ripped to FLAC. But I am hoping to see more higher definition files available soon - those I would want to stream at their best.

Mind you, the few Studio Master files I have can be matched by my *best* at 16/44.1

I am sure the SB route is a very good solution, but if I am to spend money at this stage, I might be wise to put it into hardware that would cope with better that 16/44.1

bhaagensen
2008-09-14, 12:05
I am considering the way forward. Yes, at the moment almost all my music is on CD, and some of that is ripped to FLAC. But I am hoping to see more higher definition files available soon - those I would want to stream at their best.

Mind you, the few Studio Master files I have can be matched by my *best* at 16/44.1

I am sure the SB route is a very good solution, but if I am to spend money at this stage, I might be wise to put it into hardware that would cope with better that 16/44.1

Sure, but how about this. The SB3 is now listed at 230USD on Amazon. It is certainly not free, but not much either. Personally I believe that we still have a few years to go before high definition music files becomes widely used. So during that time e.g. the SB3 will serve you very well.

If you think futureproofness you have to consider the complete solution you are getting. The Squeezecenter and Squeezenetwork software is very featureful and has been in development for many years. In fact as the Transporter supports highres it is only a matter of SD supporting highres in hardware players (other than TP). In addition, with the Boom and Duet as the latest addition the hardware line is very complete with nice controllers and remotes and hardware players for various needs.

I guess my point is that if you consider the history and entire product line, it suggests that the Slimdevices solution is very future proof. For instance the new graphical controller can be used with their oldest hardware player dating back to the beginning of this decade. I'm guessing that in time they will also provide a budget (vs. TP) player with highres support. And then you will be able to painlessly integrate this new player into the rest of the setup.

Or get a TP now :)

Labarum
2008-09-14, 12:32
Sure, but how about this. The SB3 is now listed at 230USD on Amazon. It is certainly not free, but not much either . . .

Agreed. But I have everything to gain by "playing hard to get"!

I like the idea of SB because it is not tied to Apple's closed shop, and as you say, if new products continue to integrate with old the less well specified boxes can be used elsewhere - who needs 24/nnn in the kitchen!

I also like the idea of being able to control the whole system from any box running a browser.

radish
2008-09-14, 21:07
Will SB stream at better that 16/44.1 or 16/48?



The SB3, Duet Receiver and Boom support up to 24/48. Transporter up to 24/96.



That leaves me rather unimpressed.

What am I missing?

"Does SB support better than 16/44.1?"
"Yes"
"That sucks"

Huh?

Labarum
2008-09-14, 23:14
What am I missing?

"Does SB support better than 16/44.1?"
"Yes"
"That sucks"

Huh?

I only got a qualified "yes"

16/48 is no advance on 16/44.1, and the Transporter is a rather different product which, in spite of it's price will support only up to 24/96 which I can achieve with a DAC costing less than a tenth of the price.

The argument moved on. How much material is presently available at better than 16/44.1 (48). Not much. Then live with the lowers specced product for a bit.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-15, 00:24
I only got a qualified "yes"

16/48 is no advance on 16/44.1, and the Transporter is a rather different product which, in spite of it's price will support only up to 24/96 which I can achieve with a DAC costing less than a tenth of the price.

The argument moved on. How much material is presently available at better than 16/44.1 (48). Not much. Then live with the lowers specced product for a bit.

The SB supports 24/48 - which IMHO is a significant advance on 16/44.1. Some people (including me) think that 20/24-bit bit-depth is more important than a higher sampling rate.

bhaagensen
2008-09-15, 00:47
I think discussions on the merits of highres versus cd-quality, especially on end-user consumer gear, is almost futile. Even more so in this case where the threshold is 24/48 (as opposed to 16/44) versus 24/96. I see the point, but I think that in some cases the reason people are so keen on 24/96 is simply a unspecified fear of missing out all the happiness that lies in those 96-48 samples. (Not saying this is the case with OP as he seems to be aware that even 16/44 recordings can sound spectacular if recorded properly).

So I'll sort of repeat myself. Remember to consider the whole picture. Do you really want 24/96 so bad that you'd trade having that for other features? Are you positive that this is the area most worth targeting today, or are there perhaps other pieces in the chain, such as speakers, room acoustics etc. that would be more worthwhile optimising? And like I also said above. I'm sure that Slimdevices will have a hardware product ready with highres support at some point (and they will not be the last), and that one at that time still will be able to still keep on using whatever "outdated lowres" players one might have.

Labarum
2008-09-15, 02:18
The SB supports 24/48

You are correct. I miss read an earlier post.

Pale Blue Ego
2008-09-15, 10:27
I have several 24/96 files that I've downsampled to 24/48 for playback on the Squeezebox, and they sound very, very good. I agree with many others that biggest sonic improvement with high-res is the NOT the higher sampling rate, it's the wider bit-depth of 24 bit vs 16 bit.

What you get with the $230 Squeeebox3 is the ability right now to listen to any 24bit files that are available. You will have to convert (downsample) the files to a sample rate of 48 or 44.1 (depending on the multiplier), but you do get the greater advantage of the increased bit-depth.

Yes, someday soon there will be players that can handle digital files with 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192 KHz sampling rates. Most likely Logitech/Squeezebox will be a leader in that market. Until then, keep the original hi-res files for use in the near future, while you enjoy the downsampled copies on the Squeezebox. 24/48 into a good DAC can sound fantastic.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-15, 10:35
I can confirm that the Linn 88.2 files downsampled with Audacity (free) sound absolutely superb and I defy anyone (including bats) to tell that they have been downsampled...

Labarum
2008-09-15, 10:56
OO, this post you may consider a foul, but this little box has just hit the market, and has set my mind spinning

200, and it will do most of what a Macmini does in the Media chain,
and some things it won't.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/pcs/review/2008/07/18/Asus-Eee-Box-First-Look/p1

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Asus-Eee-Box-B202-Desktop-System/?page=1

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15234

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/Asus_Eee_Box_B202_Desktop_System__Video_Spotlight/

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article867-page1.html

http://www.nexus13.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1376&idcategory=0

"A single DVI-out is all that's provided but considering the limited processing power of the Eee, that's all you should need - especially since it will turn into VGA or HDMI with readily available adapters. There are a further two USB ports, a LAN port and 3.5mm audio-out on the back. This audio jack doubles as S/PDIF-out, allowing you to hook up full-quality digital sound to your sound system with the provided S/PDIF adapter."

The Techies will be chattering about it here

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...&highlight=eee
__________________

Phil Leigh
2008-09-15, 11:18
OO, this post you may consider a foul, but this little box has just hit the market, and has set my mind spinning

200, and it will do most of what a Macmini does in the Media chain,
and some things it won't.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/pcs/re...-First-Look/p1

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Asus...System/?page=1

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15234

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/...deo_Spotlight/

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article867-page1.html

http://www.nexus13.com/productcart/p...6&idcategory=0

"A single DVI-out is all that's provided but considering the limited processing power of the Eee, that's all you should need - especially since it will turn into VGA or HDMI with readily available adapters. There are a further two USB ports, a LAN port and 3.5mm audio-out on the back. This audio jack doubles as S/PDIF-out, allowing you to hook up full-quality digital sound to your sound system with the provided S/PDIF adapter."

The Techies will be chattering about it here

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...&highlight=eee
__________________


It's hardly got my pulse racing - what's so great about it?
Can't fit 1Tb of FLAC's on there...or rip anything

I guess I'm not the target market?

Labarum
2008-09-15, 11:22
It's hardly got my pulse racing - what's so great about it?
Can't fit 1Tb of FLAC's on there...or rip anything

I guess I'm not the target market?

But that I can do on the big PC in the next room - it's only a slave PC - just a network box.

toby10
2008-09-15, 11:22
OO, this post you may consider a foul, but this little box has just hit the market, and has set my mind spinning

200, and it will do most of what a Macmini does in the Media chain,
and some things it won't.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/pcs/re...-First-Look/p1

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Asus...System/?page=1

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15234

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/...deo_Spotlight/

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article867-page1.html

http://www.nexus13.com/productcart/p...6&idcategory=0

"A single DVI-out is all that's provided but considering the limited processing power of the Eee, that's all you should need - especially since it will turn into VGA or HDMI with readily available adapters. There are a further two USB ports, a LAN port and 3.5mm audio-out on the back. This audio jack doubles as S/PDIF-out, allowing you to hook up full-quality digital sound to your sound system with the provided S/PDIF adapter."

The Techies will be chattering about it here

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...&highlight=eee
__________________

FYI: Links 1, 2, 4 and 6 are dead links.

I noticed recently Dell released a full functioning mini-laptop with the same Atom Processor. Some home shopping tv show was selling it for under $600 US.

Labarum
2008-09-15, 11:25
FYI: Links 1, 2, 4 and 6 are dead links.

I noticed recently Dell released a full functioning mini-laptop with the same Atom Processor. Some home shopping tv show was selling it for under $600 US.

Yes, this

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-studio-hybrid?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs

Phil Leigh
2008-09-15, 11:30
But that I can do on the big PC in the next room - it's only a slave PC - just a network box.

So what would you do with it? - run the SC WEB GUI? (presumably one can add a mouse, keyboard and Monitor to it?)

Labarum
2008-09-15, 11:30
FYI: Links 1, 2, 4 and 6 are dead links.


I have recopied them to the top and they seem to be working now. Mysterious.

But again

http://www.trustedreviews.com/pcs/review/2008/07/18/Asus-Eee-Box-First-Look/p1

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Asus-Eee-Box-B202-Desktop-System/?page=1

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15234

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/Asus_Eee_Box_B202_Desktop_System__Video_Spotlight/

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article867-page1.html

http://www.nexus13.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1376&idcategory=0

Labarum
2008-09-15, 11:33
So what would you do with it?

No, I would use it INSTEAD of any Squeezebox device.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-15, 11:37
No, I would use it INSTEAD of any Squeezebox device.

Ah - I see. You're assuming (I imagine) that the sound quality amd usability might be similar?

How would you control it?

Labarum
2008-09-15, 11:52
Ah - I see. You're assuming (I imagine) that the sound quality amd usability might be similar?

That is yet to be investigated. Electical SPDIF is the usable audio out (and I suppose USB into some DACs, but not mine.) Optical would be better.


How would you control it?

Wireless keyboard and mouse. Windows Remote. I use Foobar to play Flac at the moment - moving to Songbird when it matures?

And, of course I can stream Video (up to 720p, which is all my TV will do)

The competitors of Assus can't be far behind them with similar products - that's what happened with the Netbooks.

Could be interesting.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-15, 12:00
That is yet to be investigated. Electical SPDIF is the usable audio out (and I suppose USB into some DACs, but not mine.) Optical would be better.



Wireless keyboard and mouse. Windows Remote. I use Foobar to play Flac at the moment - moving to Songbird when it matures?

And, of course I can stream Video (up to 720p, which is all my TV will do)

The competitors of Assus can't be far behind them with similar products - that's what happened with the Netbooks.

Could be interesting.


OK. I'm waiting for PopcornHour to crack my video streaming needs.

Labarum
2008-09-15, 12:23
OK. I'm waiting for PopcornHour to crack my video streaming needs.

But how does this measure up?

http://www.netgear.com/Products/Entertainment/DigitalMediaPlayers/EVA8000.aspx

toby10
2008-09-16, 04:47
But how does this measure up?

http://www.netgear.com/Products/Entertainment/DigitalMediaPlayers/EVA8000.aspx

....or for $50 less you could get the new PS3-40gb which will do much of what this Netgear box will do, with the added advantage of 40gb hd storage and a Blu-ray player.

These are all lovely devices you are looking into. But for music streaming to your stereo you simply cannot beat the simplicity of the SB3 with it's built in display and IR remote control and incredible sound. Now that the SB3's are going for $230 brand new it is even a better bargain! :)

Labarum
2008-09-16, 05:01
These are all lovely devices you are looking into. But for music streaming to your stereo you simply cannot beat the simplicity of the SB3 with it's built in display and IR remote control and incredible sound.

Just exploring options.

But you don't actually know which is the best till you have used it for a month. That's life.

My one concern is the usability of the Classic with its basic remote. How do you navigate a big collection of classical CDs.

Most often I just click the CD folder and listen to the whole playlist, but on a big screen I can see most of the collection at the same time in Foobar.

So I might easily graduate to using a Netbook as a controller - and for surfing and archair emailing.

How quiet are the latest games consoles (not that I want to play games, but the Bluray might be useful)

toby10
2008-09-16, 06:00
Just exploring options.

But you don't actually know which is the best till you have used it for a month. That's life.

My one concern is the usability of the Classic with its basic remote. How do you navigate a big collection of classical CDs.

Most often I just click the CD folder and listen to the whole playlist, but on a big screen I can see most of the collection at the same time in Foobar.

So I might easily graduate to using a Netbook as a controller - and for surfing and archair emailing.

How quiet are the latest games consoles (not that I want to play games, but the Bluray might be useful)


There is no question having a direct computer interface would make large collections more easily searched, viewed and selected. But that's the entire concept behind SD products: not having to interface nor even see a computer, if you so choose. While at the same time bypassing the computers sound card and maintaining outstanding audio quality.

I dunno how quiet the game consoles are, I don't own one yet. My AV rack is in an enclosed built in cabinet so we just close the solid wood cabinet doors if a device is audibly distracting. Like you I'm not a gamer. I'll be buying the 80 gb PS3 coming out this fall to accomplish much of what you are looking for (digital picture & video archiving, web content on big screen, Blu-ray, HD Audio playback, etc...).

The PS3 won't be as format flexible as some of those other units you linked too, but adding Blu-ray capability and simplistic operation via a BlueTooth remote (purchased separately) are more important to me than those "odd" formats I wouldn't know how to use anyway. :)

Labarum
2008-09-16, 06:07
While at the same time bypassing the computers sound card and maintaining outstanding audio quality.


The DAC in a Classic is not that well regarded, is it?

I presently use the optical out from a (too nosy) shuttle PC into a Beresford Dac, which is not expensive, but is well though of.

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

toby10
2008-09-16, 06:13
The DAC in a Classic is not that well regarded, is it?

I presently use the optical out from a (too nosy) shuttle PC into a Beresford Dac, which is not expensive, but is well though of.

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

I believe it uses Burr-Brown DAC's. I use optical out to my AVR, also Burr-Brown DAC's. But I'd guess there are different versions of these BB DAC's as well.
I've never messed with an external DAC myself, others would have to chime in on that subject. :)

Phil Leigh
2008-09-16, 09:03
The DAC in a Classic is not that well regarded, is it?

I presently use the optical out from a (too nosy) shuttle PC into a Beresford Dac, which is not expensive, but is well though of.

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html
I disagree. I think the DAC in the classic is pretty good and you need your amp and (especially) speakers to be in the >$3-4k region (retail price) before the DAC becomes any kind of limiting factor IMHO.

Labarum
2008-09-16, 09:27
I disagree. I think the DAC in the classic is pretty good and you need your amp and (especially) speakers to be in the >$3-4k region (retail price) before the DAC becomes any kind of limiting factor IMHO.

Some posters on this thread

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316

rate the latest Beresford DAC

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

better than the Classic internal DAC.

I currently use the Beresford (new experimental purchase) into Quad Amplification (77 or upgraded 405) driving a pair of Quart 980s which would (in spite of their age) be in the price bracket you reference.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-17, 15:42
Some posters on this thread

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316

rate the latest Beresford DAC

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

better than the Classic internal DAC.

I currently use the Beresford (new experimental purchase) into Quad Amplification (77 or upgraded 405) driving a pair of Quart 980s which would (in spite of their age) be in the price bracket you reference.

Personally I find the stock 405's to be very boring amps...YMMV of course!