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HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-09, 14:00
Hi Folks

Just purchased a Tranquil WHS with pre-installed SqueezeCentre and the Squeezebox Duet.

The Duet connects wirelessly to my router and the router to the WHS over HomePlug AV.

The Duet is connected to my B&O 3300 receiver using the RCA outputs and a lead I have previously used to connect the audio out from my DVD player to the 5 pin din tape input on my B&O.

When I play anything from my music collection I get massive sound distortion.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance
Hyde.

CatBus
2008-09-09, 14:10
Two things to check:

1) What's the file format of the music? What is SqueezeCenter set to do with that filetype (native decoding, transcode to FLAC, transcode to MP3). Is the option to do transcoding to MP3 for bandwidth limits enabled?

2) Try another input on your receiver.

What sort of distortion are you talking about? If it's overly metallic and strangely muffled sounding, it's likely #1. If it's anything else, it's likely #2.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-09, 14:34
Ooo, quick response thank-you.

1. FLAC, not sure what SC is configured to do with that format as it came pre-configured from RipCaster. How do I check please? Is the MP3 bit still relevant if everything is set to FLAC?

2. Tried that too. That was even more weird. Without the B&O set to either Phono or CD inputs I still got the same distorted sound output when it shouldn't issue a peep until I switch to either of those sources.

The distortion is like I imagine it would sound if the speaker cones aren't actually attached to the rim of speaker unit with those foam/rubber surrounds. Kinda too loud for the volume setting on the B&O. Very rummbly [sp?] kinda like a controlled switch on thump. Does that help? Not very easy to describe sound ;-)

CatBus
2008-09-09, 14:52
I am suspicious of the RCA-to-5-pin-din connector, but don't know enough about electronics to say what could go wrong here or what to try next. If you have something that accepts RCA inputs, you could verify that the audio output from your Duet is good. I suppose you could also just try headphones and verify that the output is good on at least one output.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-09, 15:01
Well the lead worked OK when it was connecting my old bush DVD player to the tape input on the B&O.

But the headphone test would be a good one to try, albeit the only headphones I have with the appropriate plug are in the boot of the car and in the garage. So that test will have to wait until tomorrow.

I also have some JBL powered speakers where I could perhaps test in mono mode as I don't have a dual stereo RCA to single stereo RCA adapter yet.

Cheers
Hyde

Skunk
2008-09-09, 15:26
Well the lead worked OK when it was connecting my old bush DVD player to the tape input on the B&O.
The DVD player could have a lower voltage signal than the Squeezebox, and if you have the tape levels maxed out it would probably distort like you're describing. Are there any level settings for the tape input? You could also try with the Squeezebox set to a lower volume.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-09, 15:38
There's no adjustment for the input levels on any of the B&O inputs :-(

Adjusting the SB volume to be about 20% of max and then turning up the volume on the B&O gives me the sort of distortion you'd get from a badly tuned FM station.

Cheers
Hyde.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-10, 10:34
As I recall the input sensitivity on the tape inputs of older B&O's were something like 150mV into 100kohms... I'm pretty sure the SB will overload these sort of inputs. The solution may be to use some inline attenuators (see rothwell for example - or make your own) to drop the SB signal enough to prevent the overload. I don't know why you don't have the same problem with the dvd player though...can you plug that in again and try it to eliminate the cable as any kind of problem?

maggior
2008-09-10, 12:17
My experience with DVD players was that their line-level out was nowhere as hot as the line-level out of a standard CD player. I'm not sure why this is, but I have had 3 DVD players that exhibited this behavior.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 12:52
Cheers for the advice folks.

If I could take one thing at a time...

I am right in thinking that the headphone socket is in the controller and not the receiver? That is the socket on the top of the handset?

If I plug my headphones into that socket I don't hear a thing :-?

Am I doing something wrong? I couldn't find any reference to headphones in the user guide for the duet.

Cheers
Hyde.

maggior
2008-09-10, 12:59
The headphone jack on the SBC is still being worked on. According to the roadmap, you should be able to play audio through the headphone jack on the SBC with 7.3, due out late November (last I read anyway).

The person that suggested the "headphone test" probably forgot that there is no headphone jack on the Duet receiver.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 13:06
Hehe, I'll take 'em off my head then and try to stop looking like a plonker ;-)

OK next question then. How do I get SC to play the output over my laptop speakers wirelessly?

If I start SC on the WHS it switches the duet on, and doesn't play any sound directly to my laptop speakers. I just wanted to hear if the sound was distorted or not from the laptop.

Cheers
Hyde.

Skunk
2008-09-10, 13:07
The headphone jack on the Controller doesn't currently play anything worthwhile, only operating system noises.

If you want to test the outputs on the Duet I'd try the powered speakers, though I don't understand your comment about needing a dual to single rca adapter.

To test the B&O I'd try what Phil suggested and plug the DVD player back in to make sure something didn't get fried when you did the switchover.

Beyond that the only thing I can think of is replace the cable- or better yet, the stereo :-)

Skunk
2008-09-10, 13:12
OK next question then. How do I get SC to play the output over my laptop speakers wirelessly?


Go to the Web interface on the laptop: http://[server IP]:9000

From the Home Page choose Extras and you'll see a link to install Softsqueeze, which will play through the laptop speakers and show up as another player.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 13:14
The powered speakers have a single stereo line-in, and then one speaker has a take-off lead to the other speaker.

The duet has left and right RCA outputs, and only comes with leads that attach to each output. So I'd need something that combines those outputs on the duet into a single stereo line-in on the first powered speaker.

Unless I've misunderstood something ;-)

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 13:18
Go to the Web interface on the laptop: http://[server IP]:9000

From the Home Page choose Extras and you'll see a link to install Softsqueeze, which will play through the laptop speakers and show up as another player.Ah,I already have SoftSqueeze installed as I was trialing the SqueezeCentre software with a music store on my laptop's hard drive before deciding to buy the WHS and duet.

I followed the link you given but of course it's expecting to install SoftSqueeze on the WHS and doesn't appear to know about my installtion on the laptop.

Is there a way I can get the SqueezeCentre installation on the WHS to use the installtion of SoftSqueeze on the laptop?

Skunk
2008-09-10, 13:33
Summing stereo outputs like that is not a good idea AFAIK. If it really is an analog input (not digital), maybe it's not RCA but TRS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector , which would still require an adapter. You should probably check the manual to be sure.



Is there a way I can get the SqueezeCentre installation on the WHS to use the installtion of SoftSqueeze on the laptop?

You should be able to go into Softsqueeze settings (upper left) and set the SqueezeCenter host name the the IP address of the WHS. The IP address is listed in the Status pane of SC web interface settings.

tcutting
2008-09-10, 13:59
It sounds like your powered speakers are indeed stereo, but use TRS mini-plug (as suggested by previous poster)... these adapters are fairly easy to come by: mini stero plug to (2) RCA plugs.
You can run softsqueeze on a laptop to play from squeezecenter on another computer. You may need to enable some ports on your firewall... the WHS must have the correct ports enabled, as it connects to your receiver. Do you have firewall running on the laptop? You probably need to allow those ports to communicate... I know typically 9000, but I think there are one or two others. Also, do you have softsqueeze running on the WHS too? If so, there could be conflict with the MAC address assigned to the softsqueeze instance.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 14:02
Summing stereo outputs like that is not a good idea AFAIK. If it really is an analog input (not digital), maybe it's not RCA but TRS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector , which would still require an adapter. You should probably check the manual to be sure.It's definately an analogue input as they are currently powered by the headphone socket of a portable CD player of some age.


You should be able to go into Softsqueeze settings (upper left) and set the SqueezeCenter host name the the IP address of the WHS. The IP address is listed in the Status pane of SC web interface settings.Done that thanks :) My WHS music plays just fine over the laptop speakers.

So next tests are:-

1) try the duet with the powered speakers
&
2) try the lead back in the DVD player

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 14:07
It sounds like your powered speakers are indeed stereo, but use TRS mini-plug (as suggested by previous poster)... these adapters are fairly easy to come by: mini stero plug to (2) RCA plugs.
You can run softsqueeze on a laptop to play from squeezecenter on another computer. You may need to enable some ports on your firewall... the WHS must have the correct ports enabled, as it connects to your receiver. Do you have firewall running on the laptop? You probably need to allow those ports to communicate... I know typically 9000, but I think there are one or two others. Also, do you have softsqueeze running on the WHS too? If so, there could be conflict with the MAC address assigned to the softsqueeze instance.I do have the Vista firewall running on the laptop as well as a firewall on the router, but it all connected OK in the last test.

I don't have softsqueeze running on the WHS.

Skunk
2008-09-10, 14:12
If you get the stereo mini to (2) RCA adapter, you can also try using the portable cd player-->mini/RCA-->RCA/DIN on the B&o tape input.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-10, 14:20
I could I guess.

Let's see what happens with the powered speaker and reconnection of the lead to the DVD player gives us first ;-)

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-11, 13:18
havng taken a closer look at the connectors I need for the powered speakers I think I'm gonna have to make up a lead myself :(

I actually need two RCA off the back of the duet to a 3.5m socket.

All of the cables I've seen in the usual shops are two RCA to a 3.5m plug.

ceejay
2008-09-11, 15:09
havng taken a closer look at the connectors I need for the powered speakers I think I'm gonna have to make up a lead myself :(

I actually need two RCA off the back of the duet to a 3.5m socket.

All of the cables I've seen in the usual shops are two RCA to a 3.5m plug.

Are you sure about that? You'd only need a socket on the end of your cable if you had something like a plug sticking out the back of the powered speaker? Or have I missed something?

2 RCs to 3.5mm plug - widely available online, cheaply - ought to be jus twhat you need?

HTH
Ceejay

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-11, 15:15
Hi ya

Yup the speaker has a plug. They are JBL Duet Speakers and they effectively act as a pair of powered headphones. So you can plug them into a portable CD player for example.

The other end of the cable is hardwired into the first powered speaker and then another speaker plugs into the first, but again the other end of the second speaker is also hardwired.

Cheers
Hyde

radish
2008-09-11, 17:04
A coupler like this will fix that: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1213

Skunk
2008-09-11, 22:00
A coupler like this will fix that: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1213

That would do it, but if you don't have the RCA->mini yet I'd just get the female version. Any local electronics store should have one. Call ahead and ask if they have a "male RCA to female 3.5mm adapter"

http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Female-Plugs-Audio-Cable/dp/B000I23TTE

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-13, 01:50
Cool, many thanks. Maplin down the road here I come :)

Only issue I've got at the moment is that the Tranquil isn't getting issued an IP address by my router for some bizare reason. Been working fine for about 5 days, then nothing :(

Router issues IP's for my laptop, the Wii, and the Duet alright, just not the Tranquil :-??

The Tranquil is connect to my router via HomePlug AV, but the cofiguration software for those can detect both units, and that's from my wirelessly connected laptop. So they must be talking to each other.

Confused
Hyde.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-13, 09:03
That would do it, but if you don't have the RCA->mini yet I'd just get the female version. Any local electronics store should have one. Call ahead and ask if they have a "male RCA to female 3.5mm adapter"

http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Female-Plugs-Audio-Cable/dp/B000I23TTEMaplin don't have such a product. That is what I would have ideally liked. But, bought normal cable and the gender bender and coupled up the JBL powered speakers. Perfect :)

Well for a short while anyway :(

I now get very choppy reproduction every now and again, but far too much to be anywhere near acceptable. I'm guessing that there's an issue with wireless reception? If so how can I check that it is and improve things?

My router is up near the ceiling in the hall (and I can't do anything to change that either). My wireless laptop works OK anywhere in the house, as does connection to my wireless printer. I do suffer from drop outs sometimes as we're on extended reach broadband but that surely shouldn't effect the in-house wireless services?

Prior to the Tranquil I used a Safecom NAS which is wireless too, but that device used to crash when I lost internet connection, but otherwise linked OK wirelessly to the router.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Hyde.

[edit]I've been playing the Duet alongside SoftSqueeze on my laptop. So both units are connected to the server wirelessly, receiving signals in the same location and SoftSqueeze works just fine, but the Duet corrupts the sound output like there's no tomorrow :(

Should the Duet go back do you think?

Skunk
2008-09-13, 17:21
[edit]I've been playing the Duet alongside SoftSqueeze on my laptop. So both units are connected to the server wirelessly, receiving signals in the same location and SoftSqueeze works just fine, but the Duet corrupts the sound output like there's no tomorrow :(

Should the Duet go back do you think?

You could try putting the Receiver closer to the router, but FWIW, contacting official SD tech support would be my next move.

michel
2008-09-14, 00:16
To rule out a possible overpowering of the Beo's input why not just turning down the volume on the Duet?

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-14, 10:51
OK, I can feel a lot of collective rolling eyes coming up...

We had some friends round last night who said they had some attenuated phono plugs. Tried them out today and had to have the B&O volume up fairly high (even with the Duet on full volume). So unplugged the attenuated phono's and plugged the Duet directly into the B&O again and all is fine :)

The difference?

The Duet has been sitting on top of the B&O receiver, but for the purposes of this test is now sitting in the middle of the lounge floor so I didn't have to scrabble around with the cable to the B&O.

So I guess the Duet was picking up interference from the B&O toroidal transformers, whereas my laptop is probably shielded. Hence the difference in the results between the Duet and SoftSqueeze running on my laptop.

I still need to establish why the Duet breaks up in the Kitchen though. Itís about the same distance from the router to the Kitchen as it is currently is to the lounge. I know we have a microwave about a foot away from the Duet, but the microwave wasnít being used at the time. We also have an induction hob about 4 feet away, and again it wasnít being used at the time. One to ponder on me thinks :-?

So many thanks for all the help, but turns out to be dumb user error after all :oops:

But if anyone can shed some light on the issue with reception in the kitchen I'd be very grateful :)

Cheers
Hyde

Skunk
2008-09-14, 21:22
OK, I can feel a lot of collective rolling eyes coming up...

I doubt it. At least you didn't throw it in the rubbish bin or curse the developers.




But if anyone can shed some light on the issue with reception in the kitchen I'd be very grateful :)

If you have close neighbors they might have a router on the same channel, so you could try a different one. If it's on 6, try 1 or 11.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-16, 02:05
I have 4 neighbours with wireless networks that I can detect from the lounge. I believe I'm on a unique channel amongst that group which is 12.

However, I guess it's possible that another network is within range of the kitchen and not the lounge.

I'll run a scan in the kitchen and see what I get reported.

Cheers
Hyde.

CatBus
2008-09-16, 08:46
I have 4 neighbours with wireless networks that I can detect from the lounge. I believe I'm on a unique channel amongst that group which is 12.

It's not enough to be on a unique channel because channels overlap. Channel 12 overlaps all the way down to channel 8, and vice-versa. So if three of your neighbors are in that range, then 12 is not a good choice, and so on. Sometimes choosing a channel with no interference isn't an option. Instead you need to choose a channel that overlaps with the weakest of your neighbors' signals. Or break out the CAT5.

HydeTheDarkerSide
2008-09-16, 13:50
ah, should've known that really.

OK then downloaded Xirrus Wi-Fi Monitor (a natty little Vista sidebar gadget) and found that on the kitchen side of the house there's a strong signal on channel 11.

I don't have a heap of channels to pick from with 4 networks on the lounge side of the house and a further 2 on the kitchen side. Still, channel 4 gives me the biggest seperation albeit only 2 either side!

I'll test out the Duet in the kitchen tomorrow and see if there's any improvement.

Thanks
Hyde.