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Daren
2008-09-02, 23:09
I want to exclude these form the artist view only to be shown under 'various artists' to leave an 'album artist' view. How do I go about this?

Under the music library options I have have selected 'Group compilation albums together' but this does not work.

radish
2008-09-03, 07:02
Well it should :) Have you done a full rescan after changing that setting? Are your compilations getting properly recognized (i.e. are they appearing under Various Artists properly?)

elziko
2008-09-03, 07:06
I think what you are seeing is related to this bug:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5108

Its targeted milestone seems to keep on slipping though - I think you should vote for it if you want something done! I'd like to see this addressed too.

radish
2008-09-03, 07:24
That's why I asked my second question, if the albums in question are being recognized as compilations (i.e. they appear in VA) then I don't think it is that bug, as it only applies to non-compilations (i.e. guest artists). Or am I misunderstanding?

Daren
2008-09-03, 11:24
The problem is that is that artist appearances on a compilation album appear under artists, I just want the non-compilations to appear.

JadeMonkee
2008-10-12, 19:00
The problem is that is that artist appearances on a compilation album appear under artists, I just want the non-compilations to appear.

This is also what I want.
First I had the "group various" and "list albums by band" options checked, and I got my compilations appearing under "Various Artists"
However, compilation albums also appeared when I browsed to an artist.
So I went and set every single compilation album to "COMPILATION=1" and performed a full rescan, hoping to have those compilation albums removed from album lists when browing by artist.
But it didn't work; I still get compilation albums appearing under artists.
Is there some other option I've missed?
I don't have any ALBUMARTIST tags, do I need to create them for this to work? If so, do I need to create them for every album, or just compilations? Also, if I DO need to create them, what was the point of having the COMPILATION flag when ALBUMARTIST does the same thing?
Help please, I'm confused.

CliveL
2008-10-13, 05:44
I've had similar problems to you with compilation artists appearing in the regular Artists list when I didn't want them to. The solution I used was to add the "COMPILATION=1" tag on all those tracks in compilation albums, AND to add the "Album Artist" tag to ALL my tracks, every single one of them... I used MP3Tag with a script to copy the "Artist" tag to the "Album Artist" tag. This has worked and now my compilation albums all appear under "Various Artists", and not in the regular Artist view :)

Try it on a few albums and see if you get the desired effect... Good luck!

JJZolx
2008-10-13, 10:13
There are three different issues being discussed here. The first two are mentioned in bug 5108, although only the first one was the intention of the original bug:



Guest artists that appear on non-compilations appear in the Artists list. This can't be avoided in the current implementation, except perhaps to allow (or explicitly mark) those albums to be recognized as compilations. The gist of bug 5108 is that only artists appearing on compilations can be kept from showing up in Artists list, while many people would expect the same treatment for guest artists. Unfortunately, that's not how it's done.


Albums (both compilation and non-compilation) on which an artist appears are listed with the artist's "full" albums. Again, under the current implementation, there's no way to keep this from happening. It's the intended behavior, so would probably have to be an added option for anyone that doesn't want compilations listed. Another suggestion that's been made is that compilations be pushed down a level and a link to them given among the main albums.


Compilation artists appearing in the Artists list. This is caused either by not setting the "group compilation albums" option in the settings, or else by not having albums properly recognized as compilations.

wazza_c12
2008-11-21, 01:17
Albums (both compilation and non-compilation) on which an artist appears are listed with the artist's "full" albums. Again, under the current implementation, there's no way to keep this from happening. It's the intended behavior, so would probably have to be an added option for anyone that doesn't want compilations listed. Another suggestion that's been made is that compilations be pushed down a level and a link to them given among the main albums.


Hi All

Wow, I really didn't want to hear that! I bought a SB Duet recently as after a long time looking for a decent way to get my MP3's onto my home stereo I found the SB / NetgearNAS solution.

Over the years I have painstakingly tagged my music collection so that all my various artists have an artist field of .... well "various artists" I started this way back in the day.

..... having the "rolling stone top 500" album appear under the artist U2 or whoever is lame .... the song is likely going to appear on one or more of the "proper" U2 albums anyway

This is my first post here as I've otherwise been happy with the sb/sc... all I wanted to know was how to get the SB to stop second guessing how I wanted it to treat compilations/various artists.... if it just read and treated the tags like any non-compilation album i'd be happy.

How does one lodge a request for additional functionality (read simplification)

Cheers Guys

Warwick

MrSinatra
2008-11-21, 07:30
can u explain a bit more?

are you using mp3s?

how do u tag a comp album?

whats in the TPE1 field? whats in the TPE2 field?

do you set SC to treat TPE2 as album artist?

SC does a lot of silly stuff with comps imo. it may or may not get worked out in 8.0

wazza_c12
2008-11-24, 18:28
Hi MrSinatra

Some more details

Yes I’m using MP3’s and I settled on a tagging regime when only basic tagging was supported

I tag a comp album as follows

Artist field Tag = “Various Artists”
Title Tag = “Artist – Track Title”
Actual Filename = “Track No – Artist – Track title”

I don’t use any TPE or comp fields fields, I keep it pretty simple, this way, say in winamp all my various artists are together and if I wanted I can search for the artist and it will still return every track in my library that matches

Personally I find this simple and effective …. And until now have not had a problem with it

Maybe if I was just starting out cataloging / tagging my library I’d do things differently...

But as I said before, I don’t want SC to second guess compilation stuff, my own Tagging regime takes care of that…. I’m sure its not much of an ask to include functionality to turn off all the compilation hoo har

Cheers

Warwick

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 06:54
I just tag as...

Artist = Various Artists
Album Artist = Oasis etc (whoever the artist)

this works no probelm.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 06:59
I just tag as...

Artist = Various Artists
Album Artist = Oasis etc (whoever the artist)

this works no probelm.

that doesn't make sense, it should be vice versa.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 07:14
that doesn't make sense, it should be vice versa.



I know, i tried it the other way around, it did not work, however this way it works perfectly tho! simple and effective.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 07:18
Hi MrSinatra

Some more details

Yes I’m using MP3’s and I settled on a tagging regime when only basic tagging was supported

I tag a comp album as follows

Artist field Tag = “Various Artists”
Title Tag = “Artist – Track Title”
Actual Filename = “Track No – Artist – Track title”

I don’t use any TPE or comp fields fields,

SC doesn't really like what you do, and the truth is i don't think anything out there DBwise supports that methodology either. (FreeDB, CDDB, etc)

the generally accepted way to do a comp is:

artist (aka TPE1) = whoever the artist[s] are for that given track
title = song title only
album artist (aka TPE2) = the artist or category the track should fall under. so for a comp a category could be "Various Artists." or lets say the CD is billy joels with a guest artist on one or two tracks, then in that case you'd simply put "Billy Joel."

if you are setting your comps to be TPE1 = Various Artists for all tracks, then SC would not use any logics to determine its a comp, it should just be filing the tracks under various artists in the listing. however, you may be running into a bug i posted where SC doesn't show tracks with "Various Artists" in the TPE2 field in some cases. maybe it also exists if that populates TPE1?

btw i use EAC to rip, and it creates a comp specific filename structure for comps.


I keep it pretty simple, this way, say in winamp all my various artists are together and if I wanted I can search for the artist and it will still return every track in my library that matches

i use winamp too, but again, winamp expects TPE2 = Various Artists, not TPE1.

just try autotagger, you'll see. i've never heard of anyone doing it your way.


Personally I find this simple and effective …. And until now have not had a problem with it

Maybe if I was just starting out cataloging / tagging my library I’d do things differently...

But as I said before, I don’t want SC to second guess compilation stuff, my own Tagging regime takes care of that…. I’m sure its not much of an ask to include functionality to turn off all the compilation hoo har

Cheers

Warwick

the code is already existing to turn off VA detection logic, but they seem reluctant to give users the option.

however, i don't think this is your issue. i think you are doing things in a completely atypical way and you might also be running into a bug.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9523

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 07:21
I know, i tried it the other way around, it did not work, however this way it works perfectly tho! simple and effective.

vice versa works perfectly for me.

i have no idea how yours could be working... my guess is a lot of your stuff is messed up but you simply don't see whats messed up or don't care.

there's no way what you're doing is right however.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 07:31
vice versa works perfectly for me.

i have no idea how yours could be working... my guess is a lot of your stuff is messed up but you simply don't see whats messed up or don't care.

there's no way what you're doing is right however.

My whole collection is tagged correctly by hand, using tag & rename, I have only recently added a few compilations to my album collection, and this method works perfectly. the compilations are listed together under 'Various Artists' then when you go into each song it will have another field 'band' which it takes from album artists for some reason and tells you the correct artist. it works fine.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 07:36
my guess is if you go:

SC home -> albums

you'll get each single track for one comp listed under each artist name.

so, one CD shows up 20 times. thats incorrect. i'm sure there's lots of other ramifications too.

trust me, what u r doing may appear to work good for what u want at this moment, but its not how anyone else should do it.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 07:38
my guess is if you go:

SC home -> albums

you'll get each single track for one comp listed under each artist name.

so, one CD shows up 20 times. thats incorrect. i'm sure there's lots of other ramifications too.

trust me, what u r doing may appear to work good for what u want at this moment, but its not how anyone else should do it.

Hi, no they show up as a single album, not 20 times! i will see if i can take a few pics...

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 07:41
that assumes you are putting differing artists in the album artist field, AND that you have the treat TPE2 as album artist option enabled.

if its NOT enabled, that would explain why you think you are seeing correct results.

what you want to do is enable that option, and reverse your tags.

(ps. this is why i think the option should be enabled by default for new users)

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 07:50
that assumes you are putting differing artists in the album artist field, AND that you have the treat TPE2 as album artist option enabled.

if its NOT enabled, that would explain why you think you are seeing correct results.

what you want to do is enable that option, and reverse your tags.

(ps. this is why i think the option should be enabled by default for new users)

i have Group compilation albums together,List albums by all artists for that album and Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Album Artist enabled...? is this correct?

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 07:53
the first two are a matter of preference.

try changing the list option to the other setting. list only means denote in this context.

also, what app do you do your tags with?

and do u have differing artists in the TPE2 field?

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 07:56
so with regards to tagging, if i reverse the two artist and album artist tags on each song, it should still be ok with these options checked?

i use tag&rename

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 07:56
also, you need to clear and rescan to change some options, like the treat TPE2 as album artist option.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 08:01
also, you need to clear and rescan to change some options, like the treat TPE2 as album artist option.

i will try it and let you know, i only have 2 compilations to work on, so should not take long

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 08:26
ok i reversed them and all is good! various artisit now appears atop of the list on my duet remote rather than under v, which is good. thanks.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 08:28
ok...

so just for clarity's sake...

i assume you did NOT have treat TPE2 as album artist set before, or if u did, hadn't done a clear and rescan since enabling it?

is this what made the difference then in your opinion?

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 08:33
ok...

so just for clarity's sake...

i assume you did NOT have treat TPE2 as album artist set before, or if u did, hadn't done a clear and rescan since enabling it?

is this what made the difference then in your opinion?

i did have 'treat TPE2 as album artist' set yes, however befroe rescan is did NOT have 'Group compilation albums together' so i think that was the difference.

now my only problem is winamp..... haha - winamp now sorted too :) thanks for the help tho, appreciated!

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 09:09
Ack, just done a total rescen, and now the artisits are all listed on there own and not in comps :( i have Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Album Artist selected, List albums by all artists for that album selected and Group compilation albums together selected, gonna try changing a few of these round to see if it changes anything.

note my tags now read---artist = 'oasis' etc, album artisit 'Various Artists' so these are the right way round

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 09:30
hmmmm have now changed to 'Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Band' and i do now get my 'various artisits' back at the top of my list with the cimpilation albums under that, however i can still see individual tracks under some of the other artists, i.e. duran duran, has an individual track listed next to them, ( a track from a compilation) this should not now be the case?? heeelp please lol

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 10:38
this can be done and done properly, it just takes some time to learn the quirks.

first, in winamp, you want to go into its preferences and set it so that it does NOT guess at any file info for tags. there are a lot of options in winamp about this. also, make sure winamp is showing you BOTH the artist (TPE1) and album artist (TPE2) fields.

in winamp, pref > media library > local media make sure use artist as album artist if not available is UNCHECKED.

click the watch folders tab. click edit selected. make sure it says no guessing. click ok. click configure under metadata settings. again click no guessing, and set to ANY instead of ALL. click ok. also set it to rescan folders at startup and auto remove files.

when you do all the above, clear the winamp library and rescan.

you need to get all that straight, and your tag info straight in winamp, b4 we progress to SC.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 11:53
Its ok now, winamp is sorted, I just changed it to list via album artist and it now picks up the compilations perfectly. (album artist being various artists, which is what i want)

now for squeezecenter....

What I want to do is to go to by artist and to see the compilation songs only under 'various artists'. now i am seeing this, however i get the songs duplicated. for example, on one compilation, i have duran duran - planet earth. however i also have a duran duran album, this single song appears under artist next to this album under 'duran duran' as a single song as well as in the full compilation under 'various artists'

is there anyway i can get rid of the duplicates in artist view? note: in album view all is fine, all the songs come under a single comp album under various artists.


better with pictures...


In artist view i get various artist at the top just as i want...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/SQUEEZE1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze2.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/SQUEEZE3.jpg

however the songs are also duplicated under their respective artists individually 'if' i have another album by that artist as shown here...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze4.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze5.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze6.jpg

my compilation settings...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze7.jpg

my tag setup...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/tag1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/tag2.jpg

Philip Meyer
2008-11-25, 14:08
>however i get the songs duplicated. for example, on one compilation, i have
>duran duran - planet earth. however i also have a duran duran album,
>this single song appears under artist next to this album under 'duran
>duran' as a single song as well as in the full compilation under
>'various artists'

The songs aren't duplicated in your library, they are the same album/songs, just visible from several places.

If you had an album with all songs performed by two artists, the album would appear under both artists.

Eg. if you enter two artist tags: ARTIST="Pitch" and ARTIST="Potch", you would find the album listed under both artists. When browsing albums, you would see the album listed once by Pitch, Potch.

Having a compilation album or album artist is similar - you have the album listed under Various Artists or the album artist name, and also under each performing artist (but only the songs that the artist performs on).

There is one caveat to that though - if "Group compilation albums together" [sic: this means group songs appearing on a compilation together] the album is only listed under the performing artist if that artist have other albums in your collection. So, if you have guest artists on compilation albums or albums with an album artist, they will not appear in the artist list.

I think most people like this - if browsing an artist, you want to see all songs that the artist has performed on. However, you don't want Browse Artists to be filled up with lots of artists that have only had a small part on one or two compilation albums.

Daren
2008-11-25, 14:14
I have to say I am totally bewildered.I am not sure SC can accommodate by desired preference due to a bug.

My tags are set as follows:

1. Artist = [artist]
2. Album Artist = Various Artists

I have the following set in SC:

1. Group compilations together
2. List albums by all artists for that album
3. Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Album Artist

Now in all the music managers I have tried, listing by 'album artist' excludes the compilation albums (naturally they are listed as a 'Various Artist'). Listing by 'artist' includes them. This is what SC is doing.

Q. Is it possible for SC to list by 'album artist'? If so how (it is not practical for me to swap the artist/album artist field).

To me setting the TPE2 as album artist should do the trick, but alas this does not work. Now is this a bug or not?

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 14:55
>however i get the songs duplicated. for example, on one compilation, i have
>duran duran - planet earth. however i also have a duran duran album,
>this single song appears under artist next to this album under 'duran
>duran' as a single song as well as in the full compilation under
>'various artists'

The songs aren't duplicated in your library, they are the same album/songs, just visible from several places.

If you had an album with all songs performed by two artists, the album would appear under both artists.

Eg. if you enter two artist tags: ARTIST="Pitch" and ARTIST="Potch", you would find the album listed under both artists. When browsing albums, you would see the album listed once by Pitch, Potch.

Having a compilation album or album artist is similar - you have the album listed under Various Artists or the album artist name, and also under each performing artist (but only the songs that the artist performs on).

There is one caveat to that though - if "Group compilation albums together" [sic: this means group songs appearing on a compilation together] the album is only listed under the performing artist if that artist have other albums in your collection. So, if you have guest artists on compilation albums or albums with an album artist, they will not appear in the artist list.

I think most people like this - if browsing an artist, you want to see all songs that the artist has performed on. However, you don't want Browse Artists to be filled up with lots of artists that have only had a small part on one or two compilation albums.

Thing is I want to browse by artist, but i do not want to see individual songs from compilations under that artists name, i only want to see them under 'various artist' as part of whatever compilation that is.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 14:58
Its ok now, winamp is sorted, I just changed it to list via album artist and it now picks up the compilations perfectly. (album artist being various artists, which is what i want)

did u set it up as i described above?

if so, u wouldn't need tagandrename for almost anything. winamp does just about everything i need it to, when properly configured.


now for squeezecenter....

What I want to do is to go to by artist and to see the compilation songs only under 'various artists'. now i am seeing this, however i get the songs duplicated. for example, on one compilation, i have duran duran - planet earth. however i also have a duran duran album, this single song appears under artist next to this album under 'duran duran' as a single song as well as in the full compilation under 'various artists'

is there anyway i can get rid of the duplicates in artist view? note: in album view all is fine, all the songs come under a single comp album under various artists.

if we are talking about the SC webUI, i ALWAYS go:

sc home > albums

and set it to show artwork, and go artist, year, album.

since i treat TPE2 as album artist, it uses TPE2 to both sort and list (denote) my albums, which is exactly what i want.

so, i don't know much about what sc does if u go SC home > Artists. i don't like that view, don't need it, don't want it. but IF you want to suppress comps from showing up, you need to make SC think it isn't a comp.

right now, it thinks its a comp b/c you are NOT treating TPE2 as album artist, and it finds differing TPE1 info, and calls it a comp.

if you DO treat TPE2 as a comp, i think you'll find the comp albums no longer show up in the SC > artists list. BUT b/c of a bug, they won't show up under SC > Artists > Various Artists either. i already posted that bug earlier in the thread i think. (if not, i will in my next post) there is a workaround, simply rename the VA category in the SC settings.


better with pictures...

In artist view i get various artist at the top just as i want...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/SQUEEZE1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze2.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/SQUEEZE3.jpg

however the songs are also duplicated under their respective artists individually 'if' i have another album by that artist as shown here...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze4.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze5.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze6.jpg

my compilation settings...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/squeeze7.jpg

my tag setup...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/tag1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/steveedster/tag2.jpg

based on you compilation settings, i would do the following:

UNCHECK band/orchaestra.
CHANGE Treat TPE2 to Album Artist (NOT Band)
and
ADD a value into what to call VA albums, even "Various Artists & Comps" should work.

then do a full clear and rescan.

slimpy
2008-11-25, 15:05
I have to say I am totally bewildered.I am not sure SC can accommodate by desired preference due to a bug.

My tags are set as follows:

1. Artist = [artist]
2. Album Artist = Various Artists

I have the following set in SC:

1. Group compilations together
2. List albums by all artists for that album
3. Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Album Artist

Now in all the music managers I have tried, listing by 'album artist' excludes the compilation albums (naturally they are listed as a 'Various Artist'). Listing by 'artist' includes them. This is what SC is doing.

Q. Is it possible for SC to list by 'album artist'? If so how (it is not practical for me to swap the artist/album artist field).

To me setting the TPE2 as album artist should do the trick, but alas this does not work. Now is this a bug or not?
It's not a bug.
Select 'List albums by band' instead of 'List albums by all artists for that album' should do what you want.
You will still get all albums and compilations an artist appears on when you browse into an artist. Artists that only appear on compilation albums or as guest artists won't show up in the artist list but you will still get all albums and compilations an artist appears on when you browse into an artist.

-s.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 15:14
slimpy,

i agree he should list albums by band...

but i thought if a value was in TPE2, and NO comp tags of any kind were used, SC would say "this isn't a comp" period, end of story.

so are you sure such comp albums do show up under artists if there's a match elsewhere in he library?

slimpy
2008-11-25, 15:21
Thing is I want to browse by artist, but i do not want to see individual songs from compilations under that artists name, i only want to see them under 'various artist' as part of whatever compilation that is.
I think you're out of luck. Squeezecenter always shows all albums an artist appears on when you browse by artist.
It's not a bug - this is by design. Philip already commented on this and I fully agree:

I think most people like this - if browsing an artist, you want to see all songs that the artist has performed on.

-s.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 15:29
Ok...

UNCHECK band/orchaestra. - DONE

CHANGE Treat TPE2 to Album Artist (NOT Band) - DONE

ADD a value into what to call VA albums, even "Various Artists & Comps" should work. - DONE

then do a full clear and rescan. - DONE

......Results are......

pretty much the same, tho various artists now has mved down to under 'v' and is no longer at the top, individual artist songs are still being shown under the artists names if i have another album by them. guess SC just cannot do what I want and I will have to browse by album as you said you do :(

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 15:36
thats not so bad tho...

when u browse by album it still sorts by TEP2, and you can tell it if you want artwork or not.

i guess i don't know what it is you're losing by having to go home > albums instead of home > artists?

if going via home > albums suppresses the songs from the comps, whats the problem?

i have to say i am surprised that the comp songs STILL appear under home > artists for those artists you have another album by. that does confuse me b/c i thought ALBUMARTIST in the SC DB would be what populated the home > artists list? i guess this isn't the case.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 15:42
btw,

if you want SC to automatically identify your comps again, just change the treat TPE2 setting back to band and clear and rescan.

the reason i set it to album artist, is for CDs with a single guest artist. i don't want one track with a guest to get called a comp, so i set the TPE2 to the CD artist, and i'm golden. but you should do whatever you want, you just need to understand how and it works and why.

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 15:45
thats not so bad tho...

when u browse by album it still sorts by TEP2, and you can tell it if you want artwork or not.

i guess i don't know what it is you're losing by having to go home > albums instead of home > artists?

if going via home > albums suppresses the songs from the comps, whats the problem?

i have to say i am surprised that the comp songs STILL appear under home > artists for those artists you have another album by. that does confuse me b/c i thought ALBUMARTIST in the SC DB would be what populated the home > artists list? i guess this isn't the case.

Yep I guess SC only populated the 'home > artists' using the 'artist' field, its only the fact a logic statement must group as compilations if that option is ticked and not the fact it is reading from the 'album artist' field. if there was a way to get it to read from 'album artist' only, it would be sorted, thats all i needed to do in winamp earlier, took me all of a few minutes and its sorted now in that. maybe something to look at in a future upgrade for SC.

slimpy
2008-11-25, 15:51
slimpy,

i agree he should list albums by band...

but i thought if a value was in TPE2, and NO comp tags of any kind were used, SC would say "this isn't a comp" period, end of story.

so are you sure such comp albums do show up under artists if there's a match elsewhere in he library?
If TPE2 is treated as album artist the album will be listed under the album artist (if the album artist appears as a track artist anywhere in you collection) regardless of any compilation tag.
The album will not be automatically recognised as a compilation by SC and will not be listed in the generic compilation-catch-all (named "various artist" by default).
When browsing by artist the album will appear under each artist if that artist has at least one other regular album.
When browsing by album the album will be listed as 'album by album artist'.
If you want the album to appear in the compilation-catch-all you need to set COMPILATION=1 (or whatever the equivalent in your tagging scheme is).

-s.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 15:58
based on the last few posts, i agree with everything you just said...

(unfortunately, i don't have my SC around to test on at the moment)

but i find the behavior somewhat inconsistent.

i would expect the home > artists list to be comprised of album artists only.

i find it weird that:

if a real world comp CD that SC thinks isn't a comp because there is a single album artist value for the files, SC then "checks" to see if an artist value happens to exist that ALSO exists elsewhere in the SC DB, and then, if so, list only such tracks.

i'm not saying its an undesirable behavior, i like it. but it is somewhat unexpected given what i know about how SC works, and clearly some people DON'T like it.

Philip Meyer
2008-11-25, 17:39
>Squeezecenter always shows all albums an artist appears on when you browse by artist.
Except if an artist only ever appears as a guest/on compilation albums.

>It's not a bug - this is by design.
Yes.

Philip Meyer
2008-11-25, 18:02
>Select 'List albums by band' instead of 'List albums by all artists for
>that album' should do what you want.
No it won't. That is only used as a display format, I think when browsing albums sorted by Artist, and will change from displaying performing atists to displaying band contributors only (artist(s) if there are no band(s)). As he has TPE2=Album Artist, he will not have any band contributors.

eg. If I had songs on an album such as:

ALBUM="No Quarter"
ARTIST=Jimmy Page
ARTIST=Robert Plant
BAND=Page & Plant

I could either see "No Quarter by Jimmy Page,Robert Plant" or "No Quarter by Page & Plant", depending on "List albums by all artists" or by band.

For compilation albums, it would show "Various Artists" or any bands.

If I changed TPE2 to mean Album Artist, I wouldn't have a Band contributor any more, and the artists would always be shown.

If there is an Album Artist contributor role for the album, this will always be used to display against the album, irrespective of the setting.

Philip Meyer
2008-11-25, 18:26
>Yep I guess SC only populated the 'home > artists' using the 'artist'
>field, its only the fact a logic statement must group as compilations
>if that option is ticked and not the fact it is reading from the 'album
>artist' field. if there was a way to get it to read from 'album artist'
>only, it would be sorted, thats all i needed to do in winamp earlier,
>took me all of a few minutes and its sorted now in that. maybe
>something to look at in a future upgrade for SC.

It's easier to understand if you know how SC stores tag information in the database.

Normal albums have normal Artist (and Band, Composer and Conductor) contributors
Albums with an "Album Artist" have Track Artist (and Band, Composer and Conductor) contributors
Compilation albums have Track Artist (and Band, Composer and Conductor) contributors

Browse Artists will list:

a. "Various Artists" (containing all compilation albums)
b. all artists with Artist or Album Artist contributor roles
c. Composers if Composer checkbox is ticked in the settings
d. Bands if Band checkbox is ticked in the settings
e. Conductors if Conductor checkbox is ticked in the settings


When you are viewing a list of albums for an artist, you would see all albums that have that artist as an Artist, Album Artist or Track Artist (and I think also Band, Composer or Conductor if the checkboxes have been selected in the settings). i.e. you are browsing an artist, so it will show *ALL* songs by that artist.

Incidentally, if you click on an artist link where it says "Album Artist: xxx", you would only see albums where artist xxx was an Album Artist. This is true for all of the contributor artist links - click on "Track Artist: xxx" and you would only see albums where the artist was only a contributor on albums that have an album artist. I've always thought that this was a bit inconsistent (not necessary wrong) - I think that wherever an artist name is displayed, clicking on it should show a list of albums with any contributor role, as if browsing to the artist normally.

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 18:31
phil,

it depends.

slimpy is right if listing meant denoting. slimpy is wrong if listing meant sorting. i think the intent is unclear as to what daren meant.

i don't like to use the words "display" or "list" b/c they are unclear. i like "sort" and "denote" b/c they are clear.

also, i am curious if you think the behavior of home > artists is inconsistent?

steveeedster
2008-11-25, 18:32
based on the last few posts, i agree with everything you just said...

(unfortunately, i don't have my SC around to test on at the moment)

but i find the behavior somewhat inconsistent.

i would expect the home > artists list to be comprised of album artists only.

i find it weird that:

if a real world comp CD that SC thinks isn't a comp because there is a single album artist value for the files, SC then "checks" to see if an artist value happens to exist that ALSO exists elsewhere in the SC DB, and then, if so, list only such tracks.

i'm not saying its an undesirable behavior, i like it. but it is somewhat unexpected given what i know about how SC works, and clearly some people DON'T like it.

I have just thought of a solution ( well, a good workaround anyhow)! For compilation albums, in the 'artist' field, instead of naming the artist 'Duran Duran' (same as on their individual album) you could name them 'Duran Duran*' (an extra * on the end, meaning part of a compilation for example) . as there would be no such albums by an artist called 'Duran Duran*' it would no longer list the individual songs next to any artists who's individual albums you may already have and would hence ony list them once on the compilation album! Im off to bed now, but I know what I am trying tomorrow!!

MrSinatra
2008-11-25, 23:17
should work, but i dislike kludges.

an asterix might not be best... and spaces aren't ignored in winamp but are in SC, afaik.

this whole thing seems like another "logic" SC uses that should be optional.

Daren
2008-11-25, 23:47
It seems to me that a lot of people are disliking the fact that comps appear under the artist view by design. If you have many comp albums the artist view becomes cluttered.

Surely it is not to much to ask to introduce a further setting that forces an album artist view?

Philip Meyer
2008-11-26, 02:50
>It seems to me that a lot of people are disliking the fact that comps
>appear under the artist view by design. If you have many comp albums
>the artist view becomes cluttered.

No, that's not right. The list of Artists in Browse Artists, will not include artists that are only Track Artists.

What is being discussed here is what gets displayed when you want to see music performed by a chosen artist. SC will display all music for that artist, and that's perfectly logical.

The only thing that I would perhaps suggest is that when browsing an artist to see a list of albums that the artist has appeared on, that compilation albums and guest performances on other albums are gathered together in a sub-view, eg under an entry "Also Appears On":

So eg:

Browse Artists / Brian Eno /

Here Comes The Warm Jets
No Pussyfootin'

Also Appears On /
28 Days Later Soundtrack
A Brief History Of Ambient Volume 1
A Brief History Of Ambient Volume 2


However, I still prefer the full list of music that the artist performs on to be listed under the artist, so I can see at a glance everything that I have for that artist. Play All will play all songs, and I can sort the albums by that artist in various ways.

Another perhaps important thing to remember is when you have songs by an artist that do not belong on an album. These usually appear under "No Album". However, there may be many artists with songs with "No Album", so it's seen as a compilation album. If you browse to Albums > No Album, you see all songs by all artists that have no album. This can be really awkward to browse - I have 1885 songs on "No Album", which are listed over 38 pages, so trying to find a "No Album" song by an artist in this way is really cumbersome.

However, as all music by an artist is listed under the artist when you browse to them, you also get a "No Album" album there which will only show songs with no album by that artist, which is really nice.

Philip Meyer
2008-11-26, 02:55
>also, i am curious if you think the behavior of home > artists is
>inconsistent?
No, I think the content displayed is perfect as it is.

The only thing I don't like is navigating to artists from other places, which is inconsistent. eg. If you see an "Album Artist:", "Band:", "Composer:", "Conductor:" artist link, clicking the artist will only show albums by that artist where they have contributed with that specific role.

steveeedster
2008-11-26, 06:32
I have just thought of a solution ( well, a good workaround anyhow)! For compilation albums, in the 'artist' field, instead of naming the artist 'Duran Duran' (same as on their individual album) you could name them 'Duran Duran*' (an extra * on the end, meaning part of a compilation for example) . as there would be no such albums by an artist called 'Duran Duran*' it would no longer list the individual songs next to any artists who's individual albums you may already have and would hence ony list them once on the compilation album! Im off to bed now, but I know what I am trying tomorrow!!


I can now confirm that this workaround solution does indeed work, however do not use a * as above. I used the tag with a '(c)', i.e. 'Duran Duran (c)' for the artisit on a compilation.

So anyone with these problems that does not want to see the artists song from a compilation listed twice if you have another album by them you can use this method.

I am now happy.

MrSinatra
2008-11-26, 07:02
i didn't think an asterix would be good, but what was the issue with it?

Phil,

u don't think its somewhat inconsistent for comps to show up under an artist when group comps together is selected? also, isn't it weird that home > artists uses ALBUMARTIST except for only the case when a track artist matches an artist elsewhere in the DB, even though SC doesn't think the CD is a comp to begin with?

again, i like the behavior as is. but i do find it all somewhat unexpected and inconsistent, given what i am saying above.

also, maybe daren meant cluttered when browsing an artist, not just home > artists. i think its valid to request an option to turn this off.

personally, i love your suggestion of "also appears on." do you have that filed as a bug? i'd vote for it.

steveeedster
2008-11-26, 07:08
i didn't think an asterix would be good, but what was the issue with it?

For some reason it ignored the asterix for artists who had another album, it even took away the asterix from the end of the artists name, except for artists who didnt have an individual album and only appeared in the compilation, in which case it left the asterix in place! strange but true!

anyway the '(c)' method works for anyone that wants to use it, it is a good workaround for now.

Cheers.

Daren
2008-11-26, 11:59
Philip, How is this achieved?

How do you change the way albums are sorted under artists?

I feel really dumb.

I would be happy with your suggestion:

Browse Artists / Brian Eno /

Here Comes The Warm Jets
No Pussyfootin'

Also Appears On /
28 Days Later Soundtrack
A Brief History Of Ambient Volume 1
A Brief History Of Ambient Volume 2

MrSinatra
2008-11-27, 07:46
Phils suggestion is what he and i would like SC to do, it doesn't do it yet.

i'm not sure how albums are sorted once you browse to a certain artist under home > artists. maybe alphabetical with comps at the end? i don't know. but it may or may not be possible to change th way it is currently, unless they modify the code.

Philip Meyer
2008-11-27, 08:04
Phils suggestion is what he and i would like SC to do, it doesn't do it yet.
Yes, I was merely suggesting an alternative future enhancement.



i'm not sure how albums are sorted once you browse to a certain artist under home > artists. maybe alphabetical with comps at the end? i don't know. but it may or may not be possible to change th way it is currently, unless they modify the code.
Exactly the same as Browse Albums, except you only see albums relating to the artist that you have chosen.

i.e. you get the same sort options, and artwork. In fact it shares the same sort and artwork setting, which I find a bit of a pain, in that I often Browse Albums in alphabetical order, but when browsing albums through Browse Artists, I order by year.

So you can select a sort order of "Artist, album" and compilation albums should be grouped together under the configured VA name (by default "Various Artists").