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opaqueice
2008-08-30, 16:12
On bass heavy tracks, boom starts to distort audibly at around volume setting 80. For example, Ye Yo (track 5) on Erykah Badu's live album is a good test.

I think this could be dealt with pretty easily by tweaking the DSP. I'd try an amplitude-dependent high pass filter.

(By the way, let me make clear that the sound quality overall is excellent for this price point. It's clear, well-balanced, and sounds bigger than it is. The only issue I've had is with tracks with stupidly high bass levels - but even stupidly high bass levels could probably be reproduced more nicely with a little DSP magic.)

ModelCitizen
2008-08-30, 16:20
On bass heavy tracks, boom starts to distort audibly at around volume setting 80. For example, Ye Yo (track 5) on Erykah Badu's live album is a good test.
I think this could be dealt with pretty easily by tweaking the DSP. I'd try an amplitude-dependent high pass filter.

Oh, you wrote similar thing on another forum too.... but this one is more appropriate for my reply...

I've just started using Replaygain specifically for my Boom player and find that I can (easily) run it at 90% without any distortion (95% seems fine in most cases as well). I listen to a lot of bass heavy electronic music too (but not hip hop).

Did you prefer Calebs last DSP beta, the one with the bass limiting (which to me sounded unpleasantly thin at higher volumes and took all the *welly* out of the music... just when you wanted it most)?

MC

Matt Wise
2008-08-30, 16:27
Replay Gain is a huge benefit to the Boom... there are alot of songs in my library that are extremely over-bassy at least for playing on the Boom, and Replay Gain has made them much more listen-to-able. I highly recommend implementing it...

(though as Caleb has said, there is plenty of room to continue tweaking the DSP)

opaqueice
2008-08-30, 17:15
I've just started uding Replaygain specifically for my Boom player and find that I can (easily) run it at 90% without any distortion (95% seems fine in most cases as well). I listen to a lot of bass heavy electronic music too (but not hip hop).


Replay Gain is a huge benefit to the Boom... there are alot of songs in my library that are extremely over-bassy at least for playing on the Boom, and Replay Gain has made them much more listen-to-able. I highly recommend implementing it...


Replaygain just adjusts the "zero point" of the volume. If (without RG) I turn the volume down below 80 or so, everything's fine - so maybe RG would prevent me from ever getting high enough to hear distortion. But my point was that the DSP can probably handle the issue much more gracefully, by monitoring the level and damping down the bass when the signal reaches the point where the drivers get non-linear.


Did you prefer Calebs last DSP beta, the one with the bass limiting (which to me sounded unpleasantly thin at higher volumes and took all the *welly* out of the music... just when you wanted it most)?


I've been away for most of the summer, so I hadn't experimented that much with the boom until very recently. Does it automatically immediately update its DSP, or only when you upgrade SC, or what?

ccrome2
2008-08-30, 17:23
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 2:15 AM, opaqueice <
opaqueice.3ezdzb1220142003 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:

>
> Replaygain just adjusts the "zero point" of the volume. If (without
> RG) I turn the volume down below 80 or so, everything's fine - so maybe
> RG would prevent me from ever getting high enough to hear distortion.
> But my point was that the DSP can probably handle the issue much more
> gracefully, by monitoring the level and damping down the bass when the
> signal reaches the point where the drivers get non-linear.


I took a first whack at that, and it sounded like, well.... not good. It
was a universal recommendation from the community to put it back to the way
it is now.

I'll keep working on it to make it work properly. There's no fundamental
reason it can't, but it's not trivial.




>
>
> > Did you prefer Calebs last DSP beta, the one with the bass limiting
> > (which to me sounded unpleasantly thin at higher volumes and took all
> > the *welly* out of the music... just when you wanted it most)?
> >
>
Yeah, I tried different things. The current status is the best we have so
far. There's no reason to thing the current state is the final state. I'll
keep improving it, but it's really pretty darn okay right now.

Pale Blue Ego
2008-08-30, 19:07
I haven't heard the Boom, but to be fair, most audio systems do not sound that good when driven close to their maximum. Don't lose sight of the idea that this is a $300 system with maybe half of that money going into the amps and speakers.

pfarrell
2008-08-30, 19:19
Pale Blue Ego wrote:
> I haven't heard the Boom, but to be fair, most audio systems do not
> sound that good when driven close to their maximum. Don't lose sight
> of the idea that this is a $300 system with maybe half of that money
> going into the amps and speakers.

Is that why it doesn't sound as good as my $2000 amp driving $2000 Sonus
Faber speakers and a $2000 Rel subwoofer?

opaqueice
2008-08-30, 22:09
I took a first whack at that, and it sounded like, well.... not good. It
was a universal recommendation from the community to put it back to the way
it is now.

I'll keep working on it to make it work properly. There's no fundamental
reason it can't, but it's not trivial.

Canceling non-linearities is hard, because they're, well... non-linear. Still, something less ambitious - like just turning down the bass when the level gets high - does seem like it might work.


I'll
keep improving it, but it's really pretty darn okay right now.

Agreed.

ModelCitizen
2008-08-30, 23:32
though as Caleb has said, there is plenty of room to continue tweaking the DSP

Oh dear, there could be trouble ahead. What happens if you don't like a new DSP? The Boom is not an audiophile device but I'm sure some will buy one. I can already imagine the threads on that forum!


Did you prefer Calebs last DSP beta, the one with the bass limiting (which to me sounded unpleasantly thin at higher volumes and took all the *welly* out of the music... just when you wanted it most)?

I've been away for most of the summer, so I hadn't experimented that much with the boom until very recently.
Maybe if you'd heard it you'd be less interested in a bass-reduced DSP.

I'm backing up my current DSP file right now! :-)

MC

ccrome2
2008-08-31, 01:15
On 8/31/08, ModelCitizen <
ModelCitizen.3ezvcb1220164502 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> Matt Wise;334499 Wrote:
> > though as Caleb has said, there is plenty of room to continue tweaking
> > the DSP
>
> Oh dear, there could be trouble ahead. What happens if you don't like a
> new DSP? The Boom is not an audiophile device but I'm sure some will buy
> one. I can already imagine the threads on that forum!



Yeah, the idea that DSP is fundamentally bad is just plain silly. Every
single track that's released today has gone through an immense amount of DSP
getting from the artist's vocal tracts, hands and feet, to beging recorded,
processed, mixed, compressed, expanded, reverberated, pitch-corrected,
equalized, balanced, phase shifted, and mastered. Look at all the plugins
used in Pro Tools. Every single one, without exception, performs DSP on the
music. I don't know of many pure analog recording or mastering studios
anymore.

As I wrote in the paper, there are many, many ways to digitally destory
music. We just try not to do those. If we make a mistake, and people don't
like it, we'll fix it. Plain and simple.

ModelCitizen
2008-08-31, 03:59
If we make a mistake, and people don't like it, we'll fix it. Plain and simple.
Yes, but different people will like different DSPs.

We have already had audiophile *discussions* (read: flame wars) about which firmware sounds best.

I sort of like the idea of a set of selectable (and appropriatly named) DSPs.... then Opaqueice could have his bass limiting and me my *welly*.
:-)

MC

Michaelwagner
2008-08-31, 05:56
Pale Blue Ego wrote:
> this is a $300 system

Is that why it doesn't sound as good as my $2000 amp driving $2000 Sonus
Faber speakers and a $2000 Rel subwoofer?

A 20:1 ratio? I'm sure a few more tweaks of the DSP and Caleb will even that up for you!