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View Full Version : Should I upgrade to Squeezecenter 7.1 or not?



cavediver
2008-08-03, 07:19
I need some advice on whether to upgrade to Squeezecenter 7.1 or not. I'm currently running Slimserver 6.5.5 - 12852 & SB3 over a wired network and have not had any problems. Everything just works without me having to think about it. I only listen to music from my music collection stored on my server. I do not use any of the radio or online functions.

Would I benefit from upgrading to Squeezecenter 7.1 and what benefits would I see?

MrSinatra
2008-08-03, 07:26
i think you should, but many here will say if it ain't broke don't fix it.

but, why not just try it out, and if you don't like it, revert?

also, u may want to uninstall your current ver b4 going to the new one. i would try to do a totally clean install.

maggior
2008-08-03, 11:03
I need some advice on whether to upgrade to Squeezecenter 7.1 or not. I'm currently running Slimserver 6.5.5 - 12852 & SB3 over a wired network and have not had any problems. Everything just works without me having to think about it. I only listen to music from my music collection stored on my server. I do not use any of the radio or online functions.

Would I benefit from upgrading to Squeezecenter 7.1 and what benefits would I see?

If your music collection is mp3 encoded with LAME, then you will want to upgrade. LAME mp3s now play *completely* gapless.

cavediver
2008-08-03, 11:36
If your music collection is mp3 encoded with LAME, then you will want to upgrade. LAME mp3s now play *completely* gapless.

My music collection is 80% wav and 20% flac.

Nonreality
2008-08-03, 12:46
My music collection is 80% wav and 20% flac.

If you're not going to take advantage of any of the new stuff then I probably wouldn't in your case. But things like Pandora and lastfm are very good and you might find that you really like having that choice.

cavediver
2008-08-03, 13:05
If you're not going to take advantage of any of the new stuff then I probably wouldn't in your case. But things like Pandora and lastfm are very good and you might find that you really like having that choice.

What are Pandora and lastfm?

amey01
2008-08-03, 15:54
FF/REW that works is a reason to upgrade.

Is that in the 7.1 release, or one of the nightlies?

dazbarber
2008-08-03, 16:03
I upgraded from 7.0.1 earlier today having also downloaded the latest weatherdatetime screensaver (as I knew that the old version was incompatible).
However, many of my other regularly-used plugins were incompatible so I've downgraded again - for the first time ever.
I think I'll be staying on 7.0.1 unless a future OS change forces me to upgrade.

amey01
2008-08-03, 16:06
OK - the time has come. I'm going to do it!

Now, I'm currently on 6.5.4. What is the best way to ensure I can go back if I need to? I mean, same plugins, same database, same everything!

How do I ensure I can get it back exactly - I don't have any disk imaging software.

Nonreality
2008-08-03, 22:32
What are Pandora and lastfm?Well Pandora is a service that you pick your artist that you want or song and that becomes a seed that determines how it picks others artists and songs. It becomes a radio station that you pick how you want it to go. I did one that had Josh Ritter and Neil Young and a couple of more like artists. Then all you do is hit play and you have a radio station that plays some music that you like. It's great fun and lets you hear some music that you probably never would have know about. It blends the artist that you pick plus new ones that fit the genre. It's great when you really don't want to sit and pick stuff to play and just want to hit play and go on with life. Last fm works a it like it but whatever you play get's submitted to the site and you can see your playing tendencies. Then you can play back your own library from their site and add other artists that they recommend. It's fun because you get to see a lot of stats on what you listen to and then get some new artists to listen to. Both are a lot of fun. I've probably not done justice to them but trust me, you will probably get hooked if you try them.

Also you get so many internet radio stations that sound very good. I thought from my experience on the computer that they would sound crappy and didn't even try them for a while. Once I did my opinion changed and actually it's not bad at all. Radio stations from all over the world.

Nonreality
2008-08-03, 22:41
My music collection is 80% wav and 20% flac.
One more thing as I'm on a roll. You really need to give up on the wav thing and get dbpoweramp and go with flac only. Much better tags and you'll save a half your space. The tags are the important thing. No reason at all for wav on a computer. You can convert them all in one conversion with dbpoweramp and then as you rip you can get real accurate tags that will work great without much work on your part. Much better in the long run.

Nonreality
2008-08-03, 22:44
I upgraded from 7.0.1 earlier today having also downloaded the latest weatherdatetime screensaver (as I knew that the old version was incompatible).
However, many of my other regularly-used plugins were incompatible so I've downgraded again - for the first time ever.
I think I'll be staying on 7.0.1 unless a future OS change forces me to upgrade.
Did you try to just change the install.xml to max version 7.1+ ? That fixes many of the plugins.

cavediver
2008-08-04, 05:37
Well Pandora is a service that you pick your artist that you want or song and that becomes a seed that determines how it picks others artists and songs. It becomes a radio station that you pick how you want it to go. I did one that had Josh Ritter and Neil Young and a couple of more like artists. Then all you do is hit play and you have a radio station that plays some music that you like. It's great fun and lets you hear some music that you probably never would have know about. It blends the artist that you pick plus new ones that fit the genre. It's great when you really don't want to sit and pick stuff to play and just want to hit play and go on with life. Last fm works a it like it but whatever you play get's submitted to the site and you can see your playing tendencies. Then you can play back your own library from their site and add other artists that they recommend. It's fun because you get to see a lot of stats on what you listen to and then get some new artists to listen to. Both are a lot of fun. I've probably not done justice to them but trust me, you will probably get hooked if you try them.

Also you get so many internet radio stations that sound very good. I thought from my experience on the computer that they would sound crappy and didn't even try them for a while. Once I did my opinion changed and actually it's not bad at all. Radio stations from all over the world.

Ok. This sounds interesting. Where does it pull the music from? And is it streaming mp3s or flacs or what?

cavediver
2008-08-04, 05:41
One more thing as I'm on a roll. You really need to give up on the wav thing and get dbpoweramp and go with flac only. Much better tags and you'll save a half your space. The tags are the important thing. No reason at all for wav on a computer. You can convert them all in one conversion with dbpoweramp and then as you rip you can get real accurate tags that will work great without much work on your part. Much better in the long run.

I chose wav for my archive format because I don't care about storage space as I have a lot and can add as much more when I need it. Storage is not expensive. And with wav files, I can convert them to any format I want or need at the time.

Ok, the tags thing. I've never really understood the tags issue. What is a tag and what does it do for me? With my Squeezebox setup I have now, I don't see any difference with the wav files or the flac files. They both look and play the same.

MrSinatra
2008-08-04, 06:53
i think wavs have very limited tagging abilities compared to other formats, but i may be wrong. i'm also not sure what apps support tagging wavs.

tags are just data in a special "padded" section of the audio file that identify many things about it, ie. artist, title, album, genre, year, etc...

one other consideration about wav isn't just data storage size, but bw use. wavs require a lot of bw compared to other formats.

jfo
2008-08-04, 10:09
I chose wav for my archive format because I don't care about storage space as I have a lot and can add as much more when I need it. Storage is not expensive. And with wav files, I can convert them to any format I want or need at the time.

Ok, the tags thing. I've never really understood the tags issue. What is a tag and what does it do for me? With my Squeezebox setup I have now, I don't see any difference with the wav files or the flac files. They both look and play the same.

You can convert FLAC to any format you want also, including back to WAV. db poweramp will handle everything for you including adding tags, artwork, replaygain, conversion to multiple formats at the same time, etc.
You're right, storage is cheap, but why use 40% to 50% more than you really need for no advantage?
What are you using to rip?

Jim

cavediver
2008-08-04, 10:13
You can convert FLAC to any format you want also, including back to WAV. db poweramp will handle everything for you including adding tags, artwork, replaygain, conversion to multiple formats at the same time, etc.
You're right, storage is cheap, but why use 40% to 50% more than you really need for no advantage?
What are you using to rip?

Jim

I've been using EAC to rip to wav.

cavediver
2008-08-04, 10:19
i think wavs have very limited tagging abilities compared to other formats, but i may be wrong. i'm also not sure what apps support tagging wavs.

tags are just data in a special "padded" section of the audio file that identify many things about it, ie. artist, title, album, genre, year, etc...

one other consideration about wav isn't just data storage size, but bw use. wavs require a lot of bw compared to other formats.

But, why should I care about imbedded tag data including artist, title, album, genre, year, etc.

And why should I care about bandwidth. The Squeezebox doesn't have any problems with the wav files. My network doesn't have any problems with them. I have more than enough bw to anything I want at any time. I care about high quality uncompressed audio and want my files to be as high quality and as close to the source as possible.

jfo
2008-08-04, 10:25
I've been using EAC to rip to wav.

I used EAC for years to rip, Tag and Rename to get artwork, dbpoweramp to convert to MP3, and Foobar to add replaygain( album gain) I recently switched to the current version of dbpoweramp since it does all of the above and more...very simple to use and much more convenient.

Jim

MrSinatra
2008-08-04, 11:46
i can't tell you why you should care, but i can tell you that i care about having the tag data b/c i have a very large collection of music and the tag data not only helps me organize it and keep track of it, (what version something is, where it came from), but it also allows me other functions such as replaygain that allow me to maintain essentially a consistent volume in a random mix without altering the actual music data.

to each his own, but i couldn't get by without tags.

as to bw, if your situation ever changes or if you ever want to share your music (to others) or even take it portably somewhere, it matters.

GeeJay
2008-08-04, 16:44
I can't imagine NOT needing tags, but to each his own I guess. Being able to maintain consistent volumes (ReplayGain), ratings (TrackStat)are extraordinarily important to me. CustomSkip is another "must have", as it allows me to filter out particular genres, years, etc.

If you haven't missed having tags up to now, I'm not sure anyone here is going to sell you on it...but most folks find them extremely useful.

cavediver
2008-08-04, 16:51
i can't tell you why you should care, but i can tell you that i care about having the tag data b/c i have a very large collection of music and the tag data not only helps me organize it and keep track of it, (what version something is, where it came from), but it also allows me other functions such as replaygain that allow me to maintain essentially a consistent volume in a random mix without altering the actual music data.

to each his own, but i couldn't get by without tags.

as to bw, if your situation ever changes or if you ever want to share your music (to others) or even take it portably somewhere, it matters.

I'm only asking these questions because I've never really understood just what tags can do for someone or how they make a difference. How do tags help you organize your music?

I have mine orgainzed under a main Music folder and in subfolders by artist/album/tracks. They show up on the Squeezebox display just the same and I don't have any problem finding any music I want to listen to.

cavediver
2008-08-04, 16:54
I can't imagine NOT needing tags, but to each his own I guess. Being able to maintain consistent volumes (ReplayGain), ratings (TrackStat)are extraordinarily important to me. CustomSkip is another "must have", as it allows me to filter out particular genres, years, etc.

If you haven't missed having tags up to now, I'm not sure anyone here is going to sell you on it...but most folks find them extremely useful.

Replaygain is something I have some interest in, but in the last year since I've been actively ripping and listening to my music via a Squeezebox, I haven't really needed it. What are ratings?

GeeJay
2008-08-04, 17:07
Erland's TrackStat allows you to rate your music, typically on a scale of 1 to 5. If you really like a song or album, you give it a 5, if you don't you give it a 1.

The ratings come in handy if you also use his CustomSkip plug-in. For example, I have a random song playlist that will skip anything rated a 1, will skip 2s 75% of the time, etc., with 5s being played anytime they come up in the mix. That way my "random" playlist is heavily weighted towards songs I like.

cavediver
2008-08-04, 17:22
Erland's TrackStat allows you to rate your music, typically on a scale of 1 to 5. If you really like a song or album, you give it a 5, if you don't you give it a 1.

The ratings come in handy if you also use his CustomSkip plug-in. For example, I have a random song playlist that will skip anything rated a 1, will skip 2s 75% of the time, etc., with 5s being played anytime they come up in the mix. That way my "random" playlist is heavily weighted towards songs I like.

Now this sounds interesting. Do you rate the song using the Squeezebox remote while or just after playing a song?

Nonreality
2008-08-04, 17:23
I'm only asking these questions because I've never really understood just what tags can do for someone or how they make a difference. How do tags help you organize your music?

I have mine orgainzed under a main Music folder and in subfolders by artist/album/tracks. They show up on the Squeezebox display just the same and I don't have any problem finding any music I want to listen to.It's more about having different ways to access your music than organize. If you were in the mood for say folk music you could just pull up all of your folk music and do a random mix of just folk. Maybe you want to hear just some 70's music, there you go. Tags let you take advantage of having your music on your computer. Right now you are just taking advantage of a small percent of what you could do. It's hard to explain, but once you start using it all most people start to see the why of it.

GeeJay
2008-08-04, 17:38
Now this sounds interesting. Do you rate the song using the Squeezebox remote while or just after playing a song?

Both. Particularly with the IR remote, it's easy to rate a song while it's playing (e.g., press and hold the "5" button if you want to give the song a 5 rating). You can do the same thing with the Duet Controller, but it's a bit more involved.

TrackStat also allows you to go back and rate songs earlier in the mix (or even those that aren't on the playlist). You can also rate songs in MusicIP and import them to SC (and vice versa), which is an easier way to "mass" rate songs.

Nonreality
2008-08-04, 22:35
Oh btw you have enough ideas now, it's in your hands if it's worth it or not. You can see most here feel it is but still if you want to take advantage or not is up to you. Have fun.

andynormancx
2008-08-05, 04:10
I feel the need to point out that Pandora is only available in the US and Canada and that last.fm isn't available everywhere either.

atrocity
2008-08-05, 12:47
I chose wav for my archive format because I don't care about storage space as I have a lot and can add as much more when I need it. Storage is not expensive.

If a FLAC file is 60% the size of a WAV file, your storage device is doing 40% less work serving up FLACs than WAVs. It doesn't seem a stretch to assume that will have an effect on drive longevity. Storage may indeed by cheap, but breakdowns are still annoying.

CatBus
2008-08-05, 14:49
I've never really understood just what tags can do for someone or how they make a difference...I have mine orgainzed under a main Music folder and in subfolders by artist/album/tracks. They show up on the Squeezebox display just the same and I don't have any problem finding any music I want to listen to.

The main advantage under this scenario (i.e. you're already very comfortable with file browsing) is that tags allow characters that are illegal under many filesystems, such as question marks, etc. Also, being able to navigate to the same album via two paths (via genre OR artist) can sometimes be helpful, and this is pretty much the only way to handle multiple genres gracefully. I actually like it because it allows me to sort by last name WITHOUT having to make the display name show lastname, first.

maggior
2008-08-05, 20:10
I chose wav for my archive format because I don't care about storage space as I have a lot and can add as much more when I need it. Storage is not expensive. And with wav files, I can convert them to any format I want or need at the time.

Ok, the tags thing. I've never really understood the tags issue. What is a tag and what does it do for me? With my Squeezebox setup I have now, I don't see any difference with the wav files or the flac files. They both look and play the same.

A significant reason to use FLAC over wav has nothing to do with tags, but with data integrity. FLAC has a built in checksum to validate the integrity of the data within. wav has no such thing.

Why would you care? Well suppose one day you find that your memory has gotten flakey and that it is affecting the integrity of the data on your disc. How will you validate all of your wav files? Unless you've archived md5s from when you ripped them, you won't be able to. With FLAC, you can run a utility to scan your entire music collection and identify any files that have become corrupted.

This may sound like an unlikely scenario, but it isn't to me - I've experienced this. It was not fun, but thankfully I was able to easily and quickly ID what files had problems and rerip only them. Otherwise, my entire music library would have been suspect.

Given the tagging, compression, and data integrity checks, FLAC is just a more robust format than WAV in general.

MrSinatra
2008-08-05, 20:18
thats very cool.

what compression ratio do you get with flac? i love that a 256 mp3 will give me a 7 to 1 ratio, i can't tell the difference.

still, i've been thinking about re-encoding some of my fave albums, just a select few, as flac. do i need a flac exe for eac like i need lame.exe? will i also need a flac dll the way i use a lame dll?

maggior
2008-08-05, 20:27
thats very cool.

what compression ratio do you get with flac? i love that a 256 mp3 will give me a 7 to 1 ratio, i can't tell the difference.

still, i've been thinking about re-encoding some of my fave albums, just a select few, as flac. do i need a flac exe for eac like i need lame.exe? will i also need a flac dll the way i use a lame dll?

The current releases of EAC have the FLAC encoder in the package. It also has the configuration for the FLAC encoder already set up. I was never able to get it to work in older releases.

You just hit <shift>F5 and you will have tagged FLAC as output. You can even configure the number of concurrent encoding processes. I stick with one on my machine even though it is hyperthreading. Perhaps a dual core machine would handle it better.

I only use FLAC for my archive - my library that I listen to is mp3 so I can use it with my iPod. I encode at 192K and I really can't tell the difference. I've never sat down to do a scientific A/B test because I'm afraid I will hear a difference :-). But if I did, I'm sure it would be subtle.

The compression ratio I get is on average probably around 40% - not even 2:1. But is still beats archiving uncompressed WAV data.