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dhh
2008-07-29, 21:52
You might want to pull the latest firmware update... I updated my Squeezebox v2 and now the volume is stuck at full. This is a very bad problem because I am hooked up directly to an amplifier. I'm lucky I didn't blow my speakers.

How do I roll back to the previous one on the squeezebox?

seanadams
2008-07-29, 22:06
Go to player settings -> audio, and disable fixed level. This feature now affects both digital and analog outputs.

BTW you should NEVER run ANY source directly to an amp without analog level matching. Safety aside, analog attenuation is required to preserve sound quality.

schiegl
2008-07-29, 22:07
before you're rolling back please check the settings at settings->player-><playername->->audio, e.g. volume control

kind regards,
Markus

dhh
2008-07-29, 22:10
Issue:

If the firmware is updated on the device (Squeezebox 2) before the SqueezeCenter is updated, the volume can get stuck on full, regardless of setting.

Resolution:

Update the SqueezeCenter software, connect to the SqueezeCenter on the device, then re-run the firmware update by holding down the brightness.

Still, this is a dangerous bug, since people's equipment could be damaged.

peterw
2008-07-30, 04:37
Still, this is a dangerous bug, since people's equipment could be damaged.

Given the new firmware behavior (fixed output = 100% volume on analog and digital outs), how would you have handled the situation? For the volume, I see two options:

1) after the upgrade, units with fixed output have full volume on both. tough in situations like yours

2) after the upgrade, units with fixed output and less than full analog volume switch to non-fixed output and less-than-full volume on both outputs. tough in situations where the user is counting on volup/voldown not affecting the volume

Sean mentioned this change on the forums a while back (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49694) --not that anyone expects you to have seen that!-- and I don't think anyone had any brilliant ideas on how to handle the change.

One that occurs to me now -- too late for your upgrade -- is adding a prominent note atop the release notes, http://svn.slimdevices.com/repos/slim/7.1/tags/7.1/server/Changelog7.html
Out of curiosity, did you read the release notes before upgrading (i.e., would that have helped *you*?), or is it just wishful thinking that such a note might help?

The other possibilities are pretty heavy-handed, like trying to put logic in the installer to read the YAML pref files (assuming you're already on 7.x!), look for possible problems, and alert the user. But there are several different installer methods -- Mac package, Windows, Linux RPM, Linux Deb -- so that would be a real pain to put together.

If you still need fixed volume on the analog outputs, there's a page on the Wiki that talks about Sean's suggestion (which sounds right for your case), http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Connect_To_PowerAmp

You could also see the above-referenced forum post for info on how to "downgrade" your firmware. You might also consider my VolumeLock plugin, but it sounds like you were relying on a fixed volume significantly below 100% and would be much better served with "proper" attenuation.

toby10
2008-07-30, 08:09
Just an FYI: I just updated to the latest SC version 7.1 (as instructed by SC) and I had the exact OPPOSITE effect. The FW Update disabled my fixed volume setting. Much safer issue to have I suppose. :)

I had set fixed volume from day one (SB3 over a year old, from SS6.4 days)

All previous SS FW Updates kept my fixed volume setting. Obviously when I updated to SC7.0 I had to set it to fixed volume again. SC7.0.1 kept my fixed volume setting, now SC7.1 disabled it.

Again, just trying to help. I'll gladly reset fixed volume after any/all FW Updates. Just seems odd that the FW Update seems to be altering the same option but in different ways based on current settings. If it is "flipping" the fixed volume setting on many SC7 systems, ignoring saved settings, there could potentially be a lot of blown speakers out there. Probably not, but may want to have people check this setting.

andyg
2008-07-30, 08:12
After upgrading to 7.1, if this setting is enabled it will be automatically disabled and your volume reset to 50. It was the only solution we could come up with.

MrSinatra
2008-07-30, 08:12
Go to player settings -> audio, and disable fixed level. This feature now affects both digital and analog outputs.

BTW you should NEVER run ANY source directly to an amp without analog level matching. Safety aside, analog attenuation is required to preserve sound quality.

Sean,

i'm not a true audiophile so can you please explain this?

are you saying there should be a pre-amp between the SB and the amp? is that what you mean? (what is analog level matching? i thought all consumer gear was at -10db, isn't that the case? i know you can adjust the analog outs on the SB, but i would have thought that -10 would = 100% SB output, and that any input would have padding anyway, right?)

Phil Leigh
2008-07-30, 08:41
Obviously I'm not Sean, but what he's saying is that you should ALWAYS have either a conventional preamp (with some form of active or passive volume control in it, that is NOT turned up to 10/10) or signal attenuators (resistors) between "SB" style devices whose level controls are implemented purely through software and a power amp - to avoid a software glitch or human error unexpectedly sending a FULL line level signal into your power amp and possibly driving your speakers (and amp sometimes) to destruction.

The pre-amp/attenuators will stop the full-strength (0dB) line signal from the "SB" from getting to your power amp/speakers. It's exactly the same as only being able to turn the volume up to say 9 out of 10...

toby10
2008-07-30, 09:03
After upgrading to 7.1, if this setting is enabled it will be automatically disabled and your volume reset to 50. It was the only solution we could come up with.

Yeah, makes sense. And any easy and safe fix to simply re-enable it. :)

I was just concerned, for SD's sake, that it may be always changing whatever the previous setting was to the opposite (as it appears it may have done with the original posters setting). Sounds like his is an isolated issue.

seanadams
2008-07-30, 09:37
Sean,

i'm not a true audiophile so can you please explain this?

are you saying there should be a pre-amp between the SB and the amp? is that what you mean?

Correct, because turning down the volume before the DAC lowers the SNR, whereas passive analog attenuation does not. In other words, people who think "less is more", and that not having analog attenuation somehow preserves the signal quality, have it completely backwards.

Squeezebox's volume control is great for adjusting volume within the range of your actual listening levels. But it is not the same thing, nor is it a substitute for, a gain control for the amplifier. Both safety and signal quality are compromised if you do without.


i thought all consumer gear was at -10db, isn't that the case? i know you can adjust the analog outs on the SB, but i would have thought that -10 would = 100% SB output, and that any input would have padding anyway, right?)

Forget about the equipment specs, this is about what level you listen to your music at. If your amp's gain is so high that when the SB3 is at 100% it plays way louder than your maximum listening level, then you have a defective setup.

Search the audiophile forum archives (if you dare) for things like "volume control SNR" for more info.

seanadams
2008-07-30, 09:43
I was just concerned, for SD's sake, that it may be always changing whatever the previous setting was to the opposite (as it appears it may have done with the original posters setting). Sounds like his is an isolated issue.

As I understood it, the OP was mixing and matching server and firmware versions. The firmware should never be expected to work correctly with a mismatched server version.

cliveb
2008-07-30, 12:13
Search the audiophile forum archives (if you dare) for things like "volume control SNR" for more info.
With all due respect, Sean, that is probably the last place to look for advice on this issue.
The incorrect postings on this subject in the audiophile forum far outweigh the correct ones :-)

dhh
2008-07-30, 18:26
1. A knowledge base article or readme is going to do nothing in the situation where, as in this case, one's significant other triggers the firmware update as requested by the device. The issue is that there is no messaging telling the user to update the client software beforehand.

2. Yes, having a pre-amp before the amp would be a good idea, for safety and for sound quality. Luckily, my amp has both clipping and thermal protection and my speakers can handle more power than was thrown at them. Good ideas aside, full volume on the device for a good percentage of your users is going to be a iffy proposition.

3. If the issue truely was a client software, device firmware mismatch, which makes no sense because I wasn't connected to the client while the firmware was updated, then couldn't there be a hash value that the device compared in the firmware and desktop client software, with a mismatch giving the user a warning or message of some sort?

If the above isn't the issue, then I guess I don't understand the considerations and issues that triggerd this change or bug.

Other than the above, I really like the new firmware and how I can browse my local and Rhapsody libraries without having to connect individually.

-dhh

aubuti
2008-07-30, 19:59
3. If the issue truely was a client software, device firmware mismatch, which makes no sense because I wasn't connected to the client while the firmware was updated, then couldn't there be a hash value that the device compared in the firmware and desktop client software, with a mismatch giving the user a warning or message of some sort?
Actually this doesn't seem to make sense. Firmware updates are tied to server updates. You said earlier "If the firmware is updated on the device (Squeezebox 2) before the SqueezeCenter is updated, the volume can get stuck on full, regardless of setting." -- How exactly did you update your firmware before updating the server? Your suggested resolution of updating SC first and then the firmware is the way it normally works.

seanadams
2008-07-30, 20:03
3. If the issue truely was a client software, device firmware mismatch, which makes no sense because I wasn't connected to the client while the firmware was updated, then couldn't there be a hash value that the device compared in the firmware and desktop client software, with a mismatch giving the user a warning or message of some sort?

Sorry, my bad. I misinterpreted what you were saying as that you had deliberately obtained some newer version of the firmware to use with an older version of SqueezeCenter. You have to manually edit some files to make that happen, it's not something that happens by accident or by letting it update when it says it needs to update.

It sounds like we may have some bug then, that causes the setting not to get handled the way it's supposed to when upgrading.

dhh
2008-07-31, 13:50
Sorry, my bad. I misinterpreted what you were saying as that you had deliberately obtained some newer version of the firmware to use with an older version of SqueezeCenter. You have to manually edit some files to make that happen, it's not something that happens by accident or by letting it update when it says it needs to update.

It sounds like we may have some bug then, that causes the setting not to get handled the way it's supposed to when upgrading.

Yes, I had definitely not upgraded the client software in months and my girlfriend was able to update the firmware. Let me know if you need more info to track this down.

dhh

toby10
2008-08-20, 08:05
After upgrading to 7.1, if this setting is enabled it will be automatically disabled and your volume reset to 50. It was the only solution we could come up with.

Looks like this is happening on more than just SC updates. Every time I shut down and restart my computer with SC on it my Fixed Volume setting is changed to adjustable. I reset to Fixed (settings > player > audio > volume control > fixed) but at next re-boot/re-start it goes back to adjustable.

Am I missing some other setting to keep volume always fixed??

SC7.1
XP
SB3