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View Full Version : Hourly Skip Limit on Last.fm?



Siduhe
2008-07-27, 10:07
Using 7.2 and the inbuilt Last.fm plugin (as a subscriber) and came across something I've not seen before . While listening to my recommendations, where I tend to skip tracks I don't like and listen to the ones I do (to help Last.fm get my tastes), I got a pop up on the Controller which said "you have exceeded your hourly skip limit".

Is this a new feature or just one I've not seen before? Couldn't find anything on the Last.fm forums either. Strikes me as a bit odd, as I always understood you should Ban songs you hate, Love songs you really like, Listen to those you like and Skip the ones you're not that bothered about.

Posting here because I've just tried the same using the Last.fm client and don't seem to have a problem skipping tracks at all...

andynormancx
2008-07-27, 15:25
The Pandora service on a Squeezebox has the same feature, although I have only ever hit the skip limit once.

JeffW
2008-07-27, 19:09
Had the same thing happen to me a few minutes ago, got a message on my SB3. Maybe if you skip too many, it's no longer considered "radio" and becomes more like on on demand service...

autopilot
2008-07-28, 01:20
I has seen this from day one (with the official plugin), i think this is something that has been there for a while. I think you get rid of it by subscribing (?).

andynormancx
2008-07-28, 02:50
He is a subscriber:


Using 7.2 and the inbuilt Last.fm plugin (as a subscriber)

Siduhe
2008-07-28, 03:15
Thanks all - I wonder if the skip limit now applies to everyone, which would explain why I haven't seen it before (as a subscriber). Or maybe the plugin doesn't deliver the necessary info to Last.fm (though I can see my loved tracks radio, so it definitely knows I am a subscriber).

funkstar
2008-07-28, 05:34
Could it be a Last.fm backend software bug? They might not be reading your subscription status consistantly.

I guess contacting them for clarification might be a good idea.

andyg
2008-07-28, 06:02
Last.fm does have a skip limit, just like Pandora.

Siduhe
2008-07-28, 07:22
Thanks Andy, do you know what it is? The only reason I ask is that I seem to be able to skip at will using the Last.fm client, certainly far more tracks than I can skip using the official Last.fm plugin. Would be interesting to compare.

andyg
2008-07-28, 07:32
The limit is specified as part of their API response, but it's currently 6 I believe. I don't know why their official client doesn't use it. I'll ask if we could ignore it too.

Siduhe
2008-07-28, 07:59
Thanks Andy. Just to confirm (because I just did another test), I can skip 10+ tracks using either the Last.fm client or the web interface without hitting the limit - maybe because I am a subscriber, or maybe it's just an API thing. Either way, it would be nice to extend the skip limit out a bit if it can be done - some of my Recommendations have been a bit wide of the mark recently! ;-)

brookheather
2008-07-28, 12:37
There is also a bug when you reach your skip limit - if you press pause and then press play you just see the message about the skip limit - there doesn't seem to be anyway of resuming playback.

mattybain
2008-08-02, 02:31
There is also a bug when you reach your skip limit - if you press pause and then press play you just see the message about the skip limit - there doesn't seem to be anyway of resuming playback.

Just found this myself. I am a subscriber and this skip limit is very new and also very annoying.

disgaea
2008-08-09, 06:20
Just got my duet a couple of days ago. Bad buzz about the last.fm skip limit :/ Any developments?

other than this irritation, it's a bloody brilliant contraption. love it to bits!

y360
2008-08-09, 08:56
The skip limit is required for lastfm radio to be in compliance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

In contrast with on-demand music services such as Rhapsody, companies that stream music as radio channels do not need to get the agreement of the copyright holders before playing their music.

They do have to pay royalties and abide by certain rules such as in any 3-hour period, they can broadcast:

* No more than 3 songs from one album;
no more than 2 played consecutively
* No more than 4 songs from a set/compilation;
no more than 3 played consecutively
* No more than 4 recorded songs by the same artist
etc

The DMCA act also prevents listeners of radio services from being able to pause/resume within tracks, and mandates an hourly skip limit.

In the context of the internet, music services that introduce "on-demand" features into their service are not considered to be radio anymore, and must receive permission from copyright holders to play their music.

Thus every single track available in Rhapsody requires them to have a deal in place with the owner of the sound recording (typically a label, sometimes an artist/their company) and the owner of the publishing rights (usually a publishing company, and mostly administered by The Harry Fox Agency, an arm of the NMPA). Without those deals in place, Rhapsody would be violating copyright law.

The only exception to obtaining such explicit permissions is radio service, which can play any music without permission of music owners, but then it must abide by rules stated above.

Siduhe
2008-08-09, 10:33
thanks y360, this would tie in with the explanation I was given (set out in another thread) about the different kind of licence that is now required for the inbuilt plugin (at least in the UK) - which would explain why the skip limit appears using the inbuilt, but not with Squeezescrobbler.

mattybain
2008-10-03, 04:08
The skip limit is required for lastfm radio to be in compliance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

In contrast with on-demand music services such as Rhapsody, companies that stream music as radio channels do not need to get the agreement of the copyright holders before playing their music.

They do have to pay royalties and abide by certain rules such as in any 3-hour period, they can broadcast:

* No more than 3 songs from one album;
no more than 2 played consecutively
* No more than 4 songs from a set/compilation;
no more than 3 played consecutively
* No more than 4 recorded songs by the same artist
etc


The only exception to obtaining such explicit permissions is radio service, which can play any music without permission of music owners, but then it must abide by rules stated above.

That's all well and good but why does LastFm's own player not have a skip limit? doesn't seem very fair.

andyg
2008-10-04, 11:47
The official word from Last.fm is that we don't need to enforce a skip limit. I've removed this so you should be able to skip as much as you like now. :)

Siduhe
2008-10-04, 12:21
Andy, you (and SD) rock! Thanks for asking the question.

aubuti
2008-10-04, 12:54
The official word from Last.fm is that we don't need to enforce a skip limit. I've removed this so you should be able to skip as much as you like now. :)
That. Is. Great. THANKS!

autopilot
2008-10-04, 12:58
Graft stuff Andy, thank you very very much!

mattybain
2008-10-05, 03:10
The official word from Last.fm is that we don't need to enforce a skip limit. I've removed this so you should be able to skip as much as you like now. :)

Brilliant news, good work.