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ToddSTS
2008-07-24, 12:06
Just an advisory to anyone looking on ebay for good deals on used Squeezeboxen.

I bought one last week advertised as being in working condition. And it does work, sort of. It's a demo unit. It powers up when you plug it in, but all it does is run a demo from the firmware. It can't function as a regular unit, won't respond to the remote and apparently can't be re-flashed to a regular unit. Again, the ebay reseller may not realize that it isn't functioning normally because it powers up, the Toslink lights up and the screen works, shows the logo etc. This has happened to at least one other person on this forum (search for 'starting demo') to find that thread. So if you do try to get a good deal on ebay you may want to make sure with the seller that it doesn't display 'starting demo' when they plug it in.

Cheers,

Todd

edit: for clarification, the unit I bought is a Logitech branded SB3/Classic

ToddSTS
2008-07-24, 12:52
Well, I guess I don't know for sure. But when you plug it in, it phones home to the SqueezeNetwork and says its downloading firmware. Then the screen goes blank (after you disconnect the cat5, which is what it tells you to do). When I pulled the power and plugged it back in (after waiting 30 mins), it does the same thing again. It won't respond to the IR remote at all and I don't know any other way to re-flash it. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Todd

mherger
2008-07-24, 12:54
> How do you know it can't be reflashed to a regular unit?

AFAIK demo units don't have a wireless card, but some additional flash ram built in instead.

--

Michael

seanadams
2008-07-24, 12:57
You should return it to the seller. The demo units contain special-purpose hardware and software, such that they will not be able to run an ordinary firmware update. It is not feasible to turn them back into regular units.

Also BTW, there is no demo mode hidden in the ordinary firmware.

Mark Miksis
2008-07-24, 13:25
You should return it to the seller. The demo units contain special-purpose hardware and software, such that they will not be able to run an ordinary firmware update. It is not feasible to turn them back into regular units.

Also BTW, there is no demo mode hidden in the ordinary firmware.

Interesting. What's the easiest way to visually identify a demo unit (without having to power it up)?

seanadams
2008-07-24, 14:03
Interesting. What's the easiest way to visually identify a demo unit (without having to power it up)?

IIRC they are completely missing the underside label with MAC address etc.

ToddSTS
2008-07-24, 14:20
Actually mine has a label on it. This is the pic from the auction. You can see where there might have been a label over the MAC one but it has been removed, there are a few spots where it looks like the surface of the label is pulled up from having another label pulled off of it. The previous thread had mentioned that it should have a "Demo - not for resale" label on it. But mine didn't have one. I linked the ebay seller to this thread and he says he will refund my money. So that's a plus. The thing looks identical to my old SB3 except it has the darker metallic faceplate and the Logitech logo on it. So again, confirm the startup messages on the screen before taking the plunge on ebay.

Todd

iwenttoofast
2008-08-29, 19:40
I can tell from the MAC ID in the picture. Here's the item listing . . . there was no mention of it being a demo unit in their eBay ad:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280260617683&_trksid=p2759.l1259

Seller's eBay ID is maro0929. They have positive feedback so I'm going to give them a chance to do the right thing.

Nonreality
2008-08-30, 03:01
So why are these making it to the ebay market? It seems like these should have been contained at the source. Any vendor that had them should have been required to return them to Logitech so that this would not happen.

bonze
2008-08-30, 03:14
So why are these making it to the ebay market? It seems like these should have been contained at the source. Any vendor that had them should have been required to return them to Logitech so that this would not happen.Good question.....
They should still be the 'property of' Logitech and as such shouldn't be available.

toby10
2008-08-30, 05:11
Good question.....
They should still be the 'property of' Logitech and as such shouldn't be available.

Hopefully SD keeps track of S/N's of demo units and which retailer they go to so they can track down the culprits. I've never seen a retail demo of a SD product, but I have seen and played with the Sonos demo box. It is quite limited and has only rudimentary, preprogrammed material to show just the basic operation of the unit.

iwenttoofast
2008-08-30, 07:27
The seller responded to me . . . they'd bought it from someone who sold it to them minus remote and power supply (how I bought it) and was unaware it was a demo unit. Apparently whoever sold it to them unscrupulously passed it off as a working unit. They are willing to refund my money -- I got lucky.

I agree with what others have said . . . be VERY careful about Squeezeboxes on eBay without a power supply, have the seller plug it in and verify it is what they think it is, and, above all, check their feedback!

Thanks to the forum for helping me determine what was going on. I love my two other Squeezeboxes and have nothing but good things to say about the platform!

James_B
2008-09-01, 17:50
I will just add my voice to this warning.. mine was supplied with power supply but without remote.. and my seller has not agreed to do the honourable thing. He simply said he bought it from a refurb of a PC shop and now it is my problem. Now its down to Paypal and my credit card company I suppose..

ntom
2008-09-01, 20:03
Worth raisng a dispute thru ebay. If ad didnt state it was a demo unit then you should stil have some protection thru ebay as what you have received is not what was in ad.

seanadams
2008-09-01, 21:27
my seller has not agreed to do the honourable thing.

You misspelled "legal". Give him negative feedback, do a chargeback if you can, etc.

For our part, the new Boom demo units have big fluorescent green stickers on their bellies, warning that they are unusable except as a self-running demo.

bonze
2008-09-02, 01:59
You misspelled "legal". Give him negative feedback, do a chargeback if you can, etc.

For our part, the new Boom demo units have big fluorescent green stickers on their bellies, warning that they are unusable except as a self-running demo.Stickers can be peeled off though - as per the previous photos ;)

seanadams
2008-09-02, 07:31
Stickers can be peeled off though - as per the previous photos ;)

I know, but these at least go as far as explaining that the product is unusable. Not sure what else we could do - use a branding iron?

toby10
2008-09-02, 09:46
I know, but these at least go as far as explaining that the product is unusable. Not sure what else we could do - use a branding iron?

It's probably too late now (post production) but possibly coding any/all display units with something like NFS (Not For Sale) in as many areas as possible right on the mfg label.

example:
Name: Squeezebox 3 NFS
Model: SB3 NFS
S/N: NFS56789

It's very common on any resale site like eBay to post (or ask to be posted) the pics of the model & S/N info.

You could call this DRM! Display Retail Model

or....Do not Resell Motherf....

:)

NFLnut
2008-09-02, 11:51
I know, but these at least go as far as explaining that the product is unusable. Not sure what else we could do - use a branding iron?


Actually, Sean .. if it were ME .. I would DEFINITELY etch the word "DEMO" on all of the DEMO units! I would possibly even etch "NOT FOR RESALE" on them. This would limit your liability and would serve to direct anger appropriately to the vermin that actually try to resell them, and not to SD.

bonze
2008-09-02, 12:55
I know, but these at least go as far as explaining that the product is unusable. Not sure what else we could do - use a branding iron?I was going to suggest a soldering iron on the bottom ;)

Why don't these items get recalled?

James_B
2008-09-02, 13:45
Actually, Sean .. if it were ME .. I would DEFINITELY etch the word "DEMO" on all of the DEMO units! I would possibly even etch "NOT FOR RESALE" on them. This would limit your liability and would serve to direct anger appropriately to the vermin that actually try to resell them, and not to SD.

Personally I am not remotely annoyed with SD - great product, love it, cheers! - but only with the blighter that sold it to me. My favourite quote from his riposte was: "i never knew nothing about it when i sold it so its not my fault." (sic)

Try branding him, not the box ;)

NFLnut
2008-09-02, 22:48
Personally I am not remotely annoyed with SD - great product, love it, cheers! - but only with the blighter that sold it to me. My favourite quote from his riposte was: "i never knew nothing about it when i sold it so its not my fault." (sic)

Try branding him, not the box ;)



YOU might not be annoyed, but the next in line to buy a nonfunctional DEMO unit MIGHT be. The words "NOT FOR RESALE" etched on the unit would leave NO uncertainty that the practice is frowned upon by the manufacturer.

Millwood
2008-09-03, 07:34
Gee - wouldn't the obvious thing be to have the demo unit boot up screen say - "Demo Unit - Nor for Normal Use" or some such thing?

seanadams
2008-09-03, 07:57
Gee - wouldn't the obvious thing be to have the demo unit boot up screen say - "Demo Unit - Nor for Normal Use" or some such thing?

It does. But what's happening is that somebody gets hold of one of these after it's been put out of service, sometimes without the power supply, and they never even plug it in before selling it. Or they don't care, or they don't realize that it's not recoverable.

bobkoure
2008-09-04, 20:07
Maybe stencil "Demo" in as big letters as will fit on the underside?

iPhone
2008-09-04, 20:47
Maybe stencil "Demo" in as big letters as will fit on the underside?

The best and simple way to do this is have a metal stamp made that fits in a soldering gun with the words, "Display Only" or "Demo Non Working" or some other proper wording. The units are plastic and easily branded on the bottom. Yes some E-Bayer could put tape over it, but Logitech would have made it hard to cover up and most people would ask about why the unit had tape on it.

Phil Leigh
2008-09-05, 09:32
Personally I am not remotely annoyed with SD - great product, love it, cheers! - but only with the blighter that sold it to me. My favourite quote from his riposte was: "i never knew nothing about it when i sold it so its not my fault." (sic)

Try branding him, not the box ;)

They are vermin and they have no excuse in law as far as I know, of course it is their fault as they have failed to represent the item properly which is in violation of eBay T&C - get the money back from eBay/paypal/credit card co/ whatever. I hate it when people abuse eBay like this.

Repeat after me "Ignorance is no excuse in law"

Phil (100% pos feedback, former Powerseller)

James_B
2008-09-18, 01:06
Ok, yesterday to my immense relief PayPal returned all my money - the vendor hadnīt even bothered replying to the dispute thread and just closed his ebay account.

Now what would be the most fitting way to finally put the wretched demo unit out of service?

maggior
2008-09-18, 07:55
The "destroying of the fax machine" scene from Office Space comes to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGy8_Eq8680

Warning: If you are offended by strong language, you will want to watch it with the sound off. The imagery is more than sufficient to convey the point :-).

pjzzz
2008-09-18, 08:41
Uhm...... BTW stuff bought from anything else than the official Ebay store is considered to have been sold as second hand equipment and has no warranty with Logitech.

mvalera
2008-09-19, 09:25
What official eBay store?

We don't have one AFAIK.

Mike

iPhone
2008-09-19, 14:45
Ok, yesterday to my immense relief PayPal returned all my money - the vendor hadnīt even bothered replying to the dispute thread and just closed his ebay account.

Now what would be the most fitting way to finally put the wretched demo unit out of service?

Maybe it could be parted out (excluding the parts that make it a demo)?

Sean: Is the display in the demo the same as a display in a standard SB3? Some folks on the forum are looking for a replacement display.

If not parted out, I vote for Semtex, Detcord, or shotgun to destroy the Demo Unit.

Siduhe
2008-09-19, 15:32
There was a thread a while back about whether it was possible to use a second (audio broken, but display working) SB as a second display for a working SB. Will see if I can find it. Wonder if it could be used like that?

st2000
2008-09-19, 16:02
I looked it up, it's more along the lines of taking apart the demo unit
for parts. A VFD, especially a graphic VFD, is expensive. I, for one,
would probably buy it if the price were right.

This is just conjecture, but if I were asked to design an SB demo unit
the 10BaseT port would be the first thing I would entirely remove. That
would make it fairly obvious to anyone that it can not be used as a
network music client. Even the most disinterested ebay seller could
probably answer if a unit they were selling had a network port. And if
not by description, a picture of the SB's back side would tell all.

(...Hind site is a great thing isn't it?)

Siduhe wrote:
> There was a thread a while back about whether it was possible to use a
> second (audio broken, but display working) SB as a second display for a
> working SB. Will see if I can find it. Wonder if it could be used like
> that?
>
>

st2000
2008-09-19, 16:07
Apologies, I see now you are thinking of using the demo unit as a 2nd
display. A real (audio broken) unit could possibly be put into sync
mode w/a working unit and be used as a display only. I would be
surprised if the demo had enough of the original parts or programming to
do the same. A good thought though.

stuart wrote:
> I looked it up, it's more along the lines of taking apart the demo unit
> for parts. A VFD, especially a graphic VFD, is expensive. I, for one,
> would probably buy it if the price were right.
>
> This is just conjecture, but if I were asked to design an SB demo unit
> the 10BaseT port would be the first thing I would entirely remove. That
> would make it fairly obvious to anyone that it can not be used as a
> network music client. Even the most disinterested ebay seller could
> probably answer if a unit they were selling had a network port. And if
> not by description, a picture of the SB's back side would tell all.
>
> (...Hind site is a great thing isn't it?)
>
> Siduhe wrote:
>> There was a thread a while back about whether it was possible to use a
>> second (audio broken, but display working) SB as a second display for a
>> working SB. Will see if I can find it. Wonder if it could be used like
>> that?
>>
>>
>

kdf
2008-09-20, 03:10
Ok, yesterday to my immense relief PayPal returned all my money - the vendor hadnīt even bothered replying to the dispute thread and just closed his ebay account.

Now what would be the most fitting way to finally put the wretched demo unit out of service?

If you are truly not able to make any use of it, please return it to Logitech for proper disposal. It should not be made into a youtube video and sent to landfill.

As a respectable EU-based company, I'm sure Logitech will support the proper management of the end of life for a part that was never intended for consumer use. As a Mountain View company, I'd expect they'd set an example for a US division. If not...well, I've already made my stance on another thread loosely in the name of recycling so if that doesn't get me banned, you can use my name as someone who will quit contributing if they refuse to take it back for proper disposal. (granted, shipping costs may be up to you)

-kdf

James_B
2008-09-22, 05:01
If you are truly not able to make any use of it, please return it to Logitech for proper disposal. It should not be made into a youtube video and sent to landfill.




If any "seasoned" member genuinely wants it for parts they can have it for the cost of shipping (PM me, the unit is in London), otherwise who knows.. shotgun, YouTube followed by recycling? It could be therapeutic.

Treserious
2008-10-16, 12:02
I ended up with one of these myself. on craigslist, not ebay.
no I don't have the dude's email address, dealt with him over the phone, and i didn't keep the number like an idiot.

it is a brick, I can attest to that.

opened it up to have a look inside to determine if there are any differences, and the major difference i found was that instead of a wireless mini pci card, there is a compact flash adapter with a 128 meg CF card in it.

removing that pci card made the "starting demo in..." message go away, and made it look like it boots normally with the squeezebox splash screen and all.

I was able to set things up in regards to network settings and all that using a Harmony remote, but as soon as it connects to the squeeze center, and wants to update the firmware, it gacks. it stays stuck at the "download complete. unplug ethernet to continue. this may take a few minutes"

it just stays there.

I wonder if there is a way to get it up and going with some hardware modification.

chrisla
2008-10-16, 12:36
If you knew what firmware it was running, your could use the technique
people are using when they desire a specific firmware and it would not
try to update. That said SD has said many times that this hardware is
nonfunctional as a player.

-Chris

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Treserious
<Treserious.3he0qb1224183901 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> I ended up with one of these myself. on craigslist, not ebay.
> no I don't have the dude's email address, dealt with him over the
> phone, and i didn't keep the number like an idiot.
>
> it is a brick, I can attest to that.
>
> opened it up to have a look inside to determine if there are any
> differences, and the major difference i found was that instead of a
> wireless mini pci card, there is a compact flash adapter with a 128 meg
> CF card in it.
>
> removing that pci card made the -*"starting demo in..."*- message go
> away, and made it look like it boots normally with the squeezebox
> splash screen and all.
>
> I was able to set things up in regards to network settings and all that
> using a Harmony remote, but as soon as it connects to the squeeze
> center, and wants to update the firmware, it gacks. it stays stuck at
> the -*"download complete. unplug ethernet to continue. this may take a
> few minutes"*-
>
> it just stays there.
>
> I wonder if there is a way to get it up and going with some hardware
> modification.
>
>
> --
> Treserious
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Treserious's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20551
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50211
>
>

iPhone
2008-10-16, 20:28
I ended up with one of these myself. on craigslist, not ebay.
no I don't have the dude's email address, dealt with him over the phone, and i didn't keep the number like an idiot.

it is a brick, I can attest to that.

opened it up to have a look inside to determine if there are any differences, and the major difference i found was that instead of a wireless mini pci card, there is a compact flash adapter with a 128 meg CF card in it.

removing that pci card made the "starting demo in..." message go away, and made it look like it boots normally with the squeezebox splash screen and all.

I was able to set things up in regards to network settings and all that using a Harmony remote, but as soon as it connects to the squeeze center, and wants to update the firmware, it gacks. it stays stuck at the "download complete. unplug ethernet to continue. this may take a few minutes"

it just stays there.

I wonder if there is a way to get it up and going with some hardware modification.

My understanding is that it is only good for a store demo. Other then that, as spare parts if you have an old SB3 with a bad display. IMHO it is not a good idea to throw more good money after bad attempting to make it operational because I believe Sean said they can't be converted to players.

Either part it out to somebody that needs a display or mark it up as a Craig's List lesson learned.