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rfrost
2008-07-16, 15:37
Just took delivery of a new iTouch today, immediately upgraded to the 2.0 s/w so I could load 3rd party apps, then installed "Tuner," the first legit way to get streams on this family of devices.

Of course, I immediately hooked into my SoftSqueeze server. This was no easy task, as SS seems to want an playback device calling it in order to play, and Tuner on my iTouch wants a stream to grab (a problem I often run into with SS in general when not using my SlimBox). I finally fooled SS into sending a stream to my IP address by opening an app called Fstream on my Mac, establishing the connection, then connecting to the server with my iTouch, then shutting down the Fstream connection. (Complicated enough?!).

In any case, once I Got the connection up b/w SS and iTouch, I kept getting hiccups. I tried capping the bitrate of the stream and increasing the server-side buffer, to no avail. I also don't get particularly good volume, as SS wants to keep it fixed at a fairly low level on that end. BTW, I also tried a selection of high bitrate stations (up to 192 bps) on the iTouch and had no problems.

Am I alone in this dilemma? Any advice, friends?

TIA.

rfrost
2008-07-16, 16:04
Knowing that many ppl on this forum would be interested in getting their music served to their iPhones and iTouches, I posted a parallel query to the developer of the "Tuner" app, Nullriver. I'll post their response when/if it arrives.

andyg
2008-07-16, 16:22
Were you using http://server:9000/stream.mp3 ?

rfrost
2008-07-16, 19:05
yup, to be exact: <http://-------------.mp3> Feel free to try it. [slash replaced by hyphen here to avoid bot harvesting].

wr420
2008-07-16, 21:07
yup, to be exact: <http://-------------:9000-stream.mp3> Feel free to try it. [slash replaced by hyphen here to avoid bot harvesting].

Aaaa Yaa. Since I'm not such a bad guy anymore I didn't test to see if you by change made your config file read only but you may be asking for trouble.
You may want to edit your post and possibly change your hostname at dyndns.
wr420

mherger
2008-07-16, 23:20
> Of course, I immediately hooked into my SoftSqueeze server. This was no
> easy task, as SS seems to want an playback device calling it in order to
> play, and Tuner on my iTouch wants a stream to grab (a problem I often

Hu? Just open http://yourserver:9000/stream.mp3 on the app. Wouldn't this
work?

Michael

mherger
2008-07-16, 23:26
> problems there became obvious) has overwritten all of my track names,
> regardless of interface with the words, "Your squeezecenter settings
> are available for the world to see and change. Is that what you want?".

Well, they are. You published your server's url in the forums (I deleted
it now) and try to stream directly on port 9000 over the internet which is
definitely _not_ recommended. Please see wiki.slimdevices.com for ways how
to secure this using tunneling.

Best disable port forwarding on your router immediately. Then re-install
SC from scratch. Delete the DB and rescan.

Michael

mherger
2008-07-16, 23:28
> I tried all manner of approaches to fix this, even (imagine!)
> password-protecting access, but the problem persists. Anyone else
> getting this? Any fixes come to mind?

I was kind enough to enable your password protection... I hope you
remember your password - I didn't change it.

Michael

pippin
2008-07-17, 00:00
> Of course, I immediately hooked into my SoftSqueeze server. This was no
> easy task, as SS seems to want an playback device calling it in order to
> play, and Tuner on my iTouch wants a stream to grab (a problem I often

Hu? Just open http://yourserver:9000/stream.mp3 on the app. Wouldn't this
work?

Michael

No.
BTW it also does not work for a lot of other applications with me. iTunes, for example, sometimes works and sometimes does not. QuickTime does not.

mherger
2008-07-17, 02:31
> Sorry to hear you're having problems, but I'm not sure this is a
> Squeezecenter generated error - certainly that isn't a wording I have
> ever seen before.

Somebody might have had fun changing the title format to that string :-).
As it says: the settings were available for the world to see... and change!

Michael

Siduhe
2008-07-17, 02:48
Well, they are. You published your server's url in the forums (I deleted
it now) and try to stream directly on port 9000 over the internet which is
definitely _not_ recommended. Please see wiki.slimdevices.com for ways how
to secure this using tunneling.

Best disable port forwarding on your router immediately. Then re-install
SC from scratch. Delete the DB and rescan.

Michael

Michael, the point I made in the other thread is that the wiki currently gives instructions to achieve remote access without mentioning any of these issues (or that SC isn't really designed for remote streaming in the first place!). I've found three relevant wiki pages so far but no instructions to secure remote streaming via SSH. It's just asking for trouble IMHO. Will try to get in and edit today.

mherger
2008-07-17, 03:00
> Michael, the point I made in the other thread is that the wiki
> currently gives instructions to achieve remote access without
> mentioning any of these issues (or that SC isn't really designed for
> remote streaming in the first place!). I've found three relevant wiki
> pages so far but no instructions to secure remote streaming via SSH.
> It's just asking for trouble IMHO. Will try to get in and edit today.

That'd be great, thanks!

Michael

rfrost
2008-07-17, 17:52
Thanks for the heads-up about not publishing my open music server, and thanks for re-protecting it. My error. ;-{

First things first. I did discover that once I manage to get a stream to the iTouch, I can then set the server (via the player-specific settings) to pause when my client device (the iTouch) disconnects, and to restart when it reconnects.

Second, I'm still a little weirded out by that server statement; it does go away when I implement authentication, but I'd prefer not to do that, as some players are too dumb to allow that.

Finally, the core question here—that Tuner, the sole legit app for streaming on the iTouch/iPhone hiccups badly when acting as a client from SlimServer. Still no word from Nullriver, either. I'm pursuing this b/c I assume I'm not alone in wanting to be able to access my music from anywhere over WiFi. (I should note that I've used both a Nokia N800 and a PSP to do this, but neither have the horsepower to do it well).

Thanks!

andyg
2008-07-17, 17:56
Are you streaming at the default 320kbps? You might want to try lowering that to see if it helps. (Settings -> Player -> Audio -> Bitrate Limiting)

pippin
2008-07-17, 22:21
I would say for this being of any use we first have to get SC to stream without faking IP addresses on a third device and things....

gharris999
2008-07-18, 09:12
I'm having a hard time getting Nullriver's Tuner app.

I keep getting the error message "Your request could not be completed. The item you've reuested is not currently available in the US store" from iTunes. I seem to recall that it showed up briefly, a week ago, in the app store, but has been missing since then.

Anyone have a work-around?

andyg
2008-07-18, 09:44
I would say for this being of any use we first have to get SC to stream without faking IP addresses on a third device and things....

I don't follow, why do you have to do anything other than enter the direct stream.mp3 address? I'm not about to pay $5 for an mp3 streamer so I can't really test this.

pippin
2008-07-18, 12:59
I don't follow, why do you have to do anything other than enter the direct stream.mp3 address? I'm not about to pay $5 for an mp3 streamer so I can't really test this.

What you have to do is actually start to stream something (play a track) before the iTuner picks up the stream.

That said, the iTuner application gives a very bad oveall impression. I get "Out of Memory" messages from time to time, it manages to hang while entering a url (and doing nothing else in the meantime) and it even comes with a type in the default "http://" tag ("http:/b/", I first thought that is some kind of code but it's just an error).

So maybe that's the reason why it's no longer available on the store.

BTW: When I reduce the max bitrate in the settings (SC) it does not prompt me to restart the stream or the server or something. Will the bitrate change on the fly?

andyg
2008-07-18, 13:05
SC will stream silence when you connect a player, so it should handle it fine (unless it's as buggy as you say...). I'm not sure if changing the bitrate takes effect right away on an existing stream.

pippin
2008-07-18, 13:43
SC will stream silence when you connect a player, so it should handle it fine (unless it's as buggy as you say...).
Not necessarily. I know iPhone does a lot of optimization to conserve power, so maybe it somehow detects an empty stream and shuts it of...
The behavior is completely reproducible: When I pause the stream (on SC) and then also pause it on the iTuner app, it loses the connection (and indicates so). When I then try to restart (on iTuner) it says "cannot recognize stream format". But if I then re-start the stream on SC it can connect again.

It also seams to buffer ahead quite a bit (30s for my 192 kbps mp3s and more than 2min for 64kbps streams) so I can only imagine the distorted playback has to do with decoding issues.

Lower bitrates make no difference, it seems to have more to do with the track, some songs seem to be more sensitive than others (reproducible).

The strange thing is it seems to have no such issues with shoutcast streams. Is there anything you do different?

andyg
2008-07-18, 14:04
I don't really know what to tell you. Since the app is apparently pulled from the App Store it's a moot point now. Maybe someone will release a better one or they'll put out a fixed version.

bat400
2008-11-14, 04:15
I don't really know what to tell you. Since the app is apparently pulled from the App Store it's a moot point now. Maybe someone will release a better one or they'll put out a fixed version.

It's back on the App Store as Nullriver "Tuner Internet Radio".

It works with other MP3 streams, but I get crackles or popping sounds when listening to a stream from the SqueezeCenter. It would be great if this worked as I love iPeng and want the whole thing to work in just my iPod Touch.

There is a jailbreak application (just called ituner I think), but I don't want to jailbreak my ipod.

Al

danco
2008-11-14, 09:50
Finally, the core question here—that Tuner, the sole legit app for streaming on the iTouch/iPhone hiccups badly when acting as a client from SlimServer.

I take it that you mean Tuner is the only legit app for streaming *over the internet*.

I am not even sure if that is correct, but there are certainly other apps for streaming locally, which is enabling me to use my iTouch as a portable player around my apartment.

But I would be interested to know (maybe I should start another thread or ask elsewhere) why my iTouch disconnects its wifi connection from time to time. Twice now, after about twenty minutes playing. I was using the iPeng ski, which lets me make a local download of a long program.

Paul Webster
2008-11-17, 01:13
It works with other MP3 streams, but I get crackles or popping sounds when listening to a stream from the SqueezeCenter.
I've noticed something like that when playing on an external MP3 streaming player.
I wonder if it is related to the metadata being sent with the stream?
Perhaps something about the format of it is causing some players to misinterpret it.

Is there any easy way to turn it (metadata) off as an experiment?

Nonreality
2008-11-18, 02:34
Not necessarily. I know iPhone does a lot of optimization to conserve power, so maybe it somehow detects an empty stream and shuts it of...
The behavior is completely reproducible: When I pause the stream (on SC) and then also pause it on the iTuner app, it loses the connection (and indicates so). When I then try to restart (on iTuner) it says "cannot recognize stream format". But if I then re-start the stream on SC it can connect again.

It also seams to buffer ahead quite a bit (30s for my 192 kbps mp3s and more than 2min for 64kbps streams) so I can only imagine the distorted playback has to do with decoding issues.

Lower bitrates make no difference, it seems to have more to do with the track, some songs seem to be more sensitive than others (reproducible).

The strange thing is it seems to have no such issues with shoutcast streams. Is there anything you do different?

This may not be what you are talking about, but the touch and iphone cache the entire track so a 20 min song eats up much more memory than a 3 min song. I found this an odd way of dealing with tracks. This may only be from the device's library itself so may not work this way with streaming. But if it does then that could hurt performance.

pippin
2008-11-18, 07:40
This may not be what you are talking about, but the touch and iphone cache the entire track so a 20 min song eats up much more memory than a 3 min song. I found this an odd way of dealing with tracks. This may only be from the device's library itself so may not work this way with streaming. But if it does then that could hurt performance.

It does definitely not do that for remote tracks. On the iPeng skin, you can see that it's around 3 min that get buffered (you see that in the progress bar) and then you'll see that this progresses from time to time while the track is playing.

bat400
2008-11-18, 08:38
OK, I tried 'fstream' (free on App Store). It lets you enter your own stream, but on my setup it starts coming through then drops after thirty seconds. During this time the sound was perfect however.

I used to have these same symptoms with Windows Media Player, but I can't remember what fixed it...

FlyCast apparently plays in the background but lacks the opportunity to add your own stations.

Anyone tried CastCatcher? Apparently you can add your own streams but Apple blocked the 1.3 version in the App Store. When I get home I'll check if 1.2 is still available...

Al

Nonreality
2008-11-18, 23:28
It does definitely not do that for remote tracks. On the iPeng skin, you can see that it's around 3 min that get buffered (you see that in the progress bar) and then you'll see that this progresses from time to time while the track is playing.

Thats a good thing then. I'm glad. Thanks for checking that out.

bat400
2008-11-19, 05:45
OK, I tried 'fstream' (free on App Store). It lets you enter your own stream, but on my setup it starts coming through then drops after thirty seconds. During this time the sound was perfect however.

I used to have these same symptoms with Windows Media Player, but I can't remember what fixed it...

FlyCast apparently plays in the background but lacks the opportunity to add your own stations.

Anyone tried CastCatcher? Apparently you can add your own streams but Apple blocked the 1.3 version in the App Store. When I get home I'll check if 1.2 is still available...

Al

OK, tried CastCatcher 1.3 which is advertised as compatible with SlimServer/SqueezeCenter. Started perfectly, allowed me to enter my own stream, but then crashed after a couple of tracks (small section of sound repeating over and over). Posted a support request on their forum, and to their credit they are already working on a fix.

Apparently part of the problem is that the data is sent through at a much faster rate than the bitrate of the song (which allows for quick buffering), but there is also much more than the usual amount of metadata being pushed through and this overloads the software (I think).

Have a look at this thread on their support site:
http://forums.return7.com/index.php?topic=33

Out of the ones I had tried it was the most promising, so hopefully they'll get the crashing sorted out.

Al