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cronshd
2008-07-12, 03:22
If I play back any FLAC track it starts off ok for about 5 seconds, then becomes more and more distorted - just breaks up totally.

The FLAC files were fine before - for the last 6 months (and the CDs were professionally 'FLACed').

My MP3s are all fine.

I use as a Tranquil Server, Windows Home Server.

Has anyone encountered this kind of thing before?

There is no other network activity - apart from playing the music.

Is there anything I can do to check this out?

Thanks.

amcluesent
2008-07-12, 03:35
Wired or wi-fi connection to the player? I'd guess wi-fi and some interference on the channel, either another wi-fi router, X10 unit or wireless phone has been installed nearby.

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 03:35
when you say distorted, do you mean that the music stutters like it is being interrupted?
Are you wireless? - run a network health test and report back

cronshd
2008-07-12, 03:57
Yes - it breaks up - stutters and comes to a halt.

And now it is starting to happen on MP3s - the behaviour is a little different.....it goes distorted/stuttering then starts rebuffering.

So it is not just for FLACs now.

Yes it is wireless - and has been working perfectly for 6 months or so.

There has been no recent change to the infrastructure in the house.

I have rebooted modem/wireless router.

Is there anything I can test - to see what might be the cause?

I just did a scan for wireless networks - and found my Linksys (Encrypted) with 100% strength.

I also found another duplicate Linksys - which is Open ie not encrypted. Not sure what has happened here.....Help!!! COuld this be the cause?

aubuti
2008-07-12, 04:26
Like Phil said, run the network health test that comes with SC and report back. There are a lot of possibilities for the new interference, such as neighbors with new wireless networks (or just new routers), 2.4GHz phones, etc. You could install NetStumbler to find out what wireless channel(s) they are operating on and then change your channel to something that is non-overlapping. NetStumbler will only tell you about WiFi networks, not cordless phones.

cronshd
2008-07-12, 05:37
Hi

I ran NetStumbler (see attached screen dump) - and it shows 2 Linksys (my SSID) entries. I changed (via the Linksys 192.168.1.1) the channel to channel 12.

I'm not sure why there are 2 entries as there is only one modem/router.

I also switched off the cordless phone in the house.

None of this makes a difference - and it still stutters/breaks then grinds to a halt.

I get 100% wireless strength on the laptop close to the Squeezebox.

I can't run Squeezecenter diagnostic because if I install and run Squeezecenter, I get the message

Your player was not found.

If you own a Squeezebox or Transporter:

Make sure that your player is plugged in and its networking settings are correct. Click the Refresh button once your player is connected.
If you do not own a Squeezebox

This is by default using the url http://192.168.1.101:9000
If I replace the 192.168.1.101 with 'Server' (the name of my Server) then SlimServer starts running.

amcluesent
2008-07-12, 06:03
>I'm not sure why there are 2 entries as there is only one modem/router<

The MAC addresses are different, that's another linksys with a default SSID

I'd try moving to channels 3 or 9 and see what the reception is like.

aubuti
2008-07-12, 06:13
>I'm not sure why there are 2 entries as there is only one modem/router<

The MAC addresses are different, that's another linksys with a default SSID

I'd try moving to channels 3 or 9 and see what the reception is like.
That, and also change your SSID (and admin password) from the default to something else (it won't help you with SC, but it is a basic security, and sanity, measure).

cronshd
2008-07-12, 06:49
>I'm not sure why there are 2 entries as there is only one modem/router<

The MAC addresses are different, that's another linksys with a default SSID

I'd try moving to channels 3 or 9 and see what the reception is like.


So....do you mean there are 2 linksys routers in da house?

That is not possible - there is just one modem, one router, one server.....

How can I delete that 'rogue' entry? Where did it come from? Why does it show 'Epiugram' as the vendor (all the others say 'Fake')

Anyway as per attached, I went into the linksys url and changed the channel to 3 (although it shows up on NetStumbler as 3*, 12).

I then rebooted again the Squeezebox. It made no difference.

I am wondering if it is some setting which is about 'buffering' in some way - as it also is stuttering on Radio. It never used to do any of this.

I am also wondering if it is connected with the failed attempts to properly install/connect Squeezecentre - as it was fine with SlimServer. (Although I have switched off my laptops to test this - and just have a 'pure' Server - to - Squeezebox configuration).

Any other ideas of things to try?

cronshd
2008-07-12, 06:55
This is the latest NetStumbler.....

attached...

cronshd
2008-07-12, 07:36
I ran SlimServer and went to the Debugging section - and switched some of the flags on (not sure exactly what each flag is - as it is not explained).

Anyway, the resulting log is attached. You can see if you go to 'Beck' - maybe where the problems start.

It does not mean so mcuh to me - but I can see

00:04:20:12:25:cb: Decoder underrun while this mode: playout-play

for example.....as well as other stuff.

Does this help?

bpa
2008-07-12, 07:53
The 2nd router could be a neighbours not a rogue. Test this possibility by turning off your linksys router and then run NetStumbler - if there is only one linksys router left then there is a neighbouring router causing the problem.

In terms of network testing. From SB3 run the Network Test under Extras. To play Flac files you need 100% at least 1500kbps sustained for a few minutes. What is the max speed on your setup where you get 100%.

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 08:05
Your symptoms are consistent with a neighbour having installed a new WAP recently. Follow BPA's advice and report back.

cronshd
2008-07-12, 08:46
Hi - ok - yes I think it must be a neighbours device (from a long distance). I switched mine off and could see on NetStumbler there was still a Linksys - and if I did Fn+F5 - to scan for wireless networks it came up. Interestingly, it came up at about 5% strength - and yet now when I switch my router back on the neightbour Linksys is about 90%.

Anyway, my next question (and btw - thanks so much guys for your patience and time on this) - is this. When I saw there were duplicate names a few hours ago (before your 'neighbour suggestion' - I changed router name and got myself into a bit of mess and so I changed it back. So I want to know how to changed the SSID in easy steps.

What happened for me to get in a mess?

Ok - the set up here is 1 modem, 1 linksys wireless router, I Tranquil server and 2 laptops running Windows XP.

1. I went to the Linksys url and changed the SSID to Linksysnew
2. Then I discovered of course, that I lost the connection on Laptop1.
3. On Laptop1 if I go to Windows-Control Panel-Network Connections - there aren;t any. (I had anticipated I would just go there and make a change somewhere there).
4. So I went to Laptop2 and managed to connect and change the SSID back to linksys

...So I appreciate this might be a bit outside of your domain - but if you could help on this it would be great.

Thanks again.

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 08:51
Hi - ok - yes I think it must be a neighbours device (from a long distance). I switched mine off and could see on NetStumbler there was still a Linksys - and if I did Fn+F5 - to scan for wireless networks it came up. Interestingly, it came up at about 5% strength - and yet now when I switch my router back on the neightbour Linksys is about 90%.

Anyway, my next question (and btw - thanks so much guys for your patience and time on this) - is this. When I saw there were duplicate names a few hours ago (before your 'neighbour suggestion' - I changed router name and got myself into a bit of mess and so I changed it back. So I want to know how to changed the SSID in easy steps.

What happened for me to get in a mess?

Ok - the set up here is 1 modem, 1 linksys wireless router, I Tranquil server and 2 laptops running Windows XP.

1. I went to the Linksys url and changed the SSID to Linksysnew
2. Then I discovered of course, that I lost the connection on Laptop1.
3. On Laptop1 if I go to Windows-Control Panel-Network Connections - there aren;t any. (I had anticipated I would just go there and make a change somewhere there).
4. So I went to Laptop2 and managed to connect and change the SSID back to linksys

...So I appreciate this might be a bit outside of your domain - but if you could help on this it would be great.

Thanks again.

Have you rebooted Laptop1?

It's odd that there is no network connection on L1 (as L2 is fine if I'm following you).

Sounds like you need to add a new wireless network connection on L1, using the Wireless Networking Wizard (or whatever its called).

cronshd
2008-07-12, 09:09
Ok - quick update.

I changed my SSID - and set up Squeezebox with the new id etc - and reset the network on the PC.

So far..................................it seems to be working!!

:-)

I've listened to 2 tracks straight through and no stuttering. I hope it continues!

Thank you very much. I do appreciate your replies.

Meanwhile - there is just the slight problem of getting SqueezeCenter up and running - should I create a new thread for that?

cronshd
2008-07-12, 09:11
Ouch - just as I posted - I got a short stutter - although transient it continued - but it unnerved me a bit.

Is there some way I can do proper test? Apart from listening to stuff non-stop.

I want to check the 'fidelity' of the sound.

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 09:15
Ouch - just as I posted - I got a short stutter - although transient it continued - but it unnerved me a bit.

Is there some way I can do proper test? Apart from listening to stuff non-stop.

I want to check the 'fidelity' of the sound.

It's not the fidelity that is the issue (it either works perfectly or it stutters - there's no real middle ground on this).

You need to run the network & server health test. It sounds like you still have wireless netwrok issues. Your setup has two wireless hope (server to router, router to SB) so you are on the edge of reliability IMHO.

Do you know how to run the server test? - enable the plugin, restart SS and rune the test...report back. You need to get 1500kbps at 100% to stream FLAC

cronshd
2008-07-12, 09:23
Hi Phil

No - I have never run the test before. Is it possible you can give me step by step instructions?

The set up has been perfect for the lat 6 months....no problems whatsoever...

Thanks

Oh - and the Server is connected by a cable into the back of the Wireless Router.....

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 09:29
Hi Phil

No - I have never run the test before. Is it possible you can give me step by step instructions?

The set up has been perfect for the lat 6 months....no problems whatsoever...

Thanks

Oh - and the Server is connected by a cable into the back of the Wireless Router.....

Ah - good. You should be able to get this working perfectly then.

Right, now what version of server software are you running?
Go to settings - advanced - plugins and enable the Server and Network Health plug in - then restart the server software.

See that "help" icon on the bottom left of the server home page...click on it

Then get back online to me!

cronshd
2008-07-12, 09:42
Just before we get into that, I think that the 'ouch' just got a stutter was because Laptop2 was still associated with 'Linksys'. I went to check out L2 - and music was still playing - then when I started messing with the network settings (to get it on to the new SSID) I could hear the music stutter even more.....then when I Shut Down L2 and skipped to the next track - it has...so far....been perfect.

Anyway the server software is also doing my head in a bit. I was fine with SlimServer - then I downloaded Squeezecenter - and could not get it connected to my Squeezebox.....(I haven;t tried in the last hour since SSID change).

So I have the remnants of SlimServer:
SlimServer Version: 6.5.4 - 12568 - Windows Server 2003 - EN - cp1252

I can't see a Server & Network Health plug in.....

Here is the screen I am looking at (attached)...

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 09:47
Yes - it was called Network test under 6.5.x (sorry I'm on 7.2 nowadays)
Anyway, from your screenshot it is installed - I just can't remember how you run it on that version... Do you have a "help" icon on the home page? It's either there where you run it or it's run from the Player itself using the remote under the Plugins menu (can't remember sorry)

cronshd
2008-07-12, 09:57
Ok - I found it...........

it is a click on Server and Network health.

I ran the highest rate at 5000kbps.

The result is attached.

I have had more stutters since (even though L2 is shut down).

See attached.

cronshd
2008-07-12, 09:59
And it is currently averaging at 92% on the screen of the Squeezebox

cronshd
2008-07-12, 10:01
And now much lower - more like 59-60....it seemed as if it was stuttering but obviously I couldnt hear anything.......

cronshd
2008-07-12, 10:05
Ok - I can see that I can collect performance stats for the Player and Server. Should I send these to you after running the test for sometime?

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 10:08
Ok - I can see that I can collect performance stats for the Player and Server. Should I send these to you after running the test for sometime?

No... you need to run the test at 1500 (not 5000) and see what happens. If it is not 100% then you have a wif-fi issue.

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 10:09
And click on "enable performance monitoring" and see what that says...

cronshd
2008-07-12, 10:22
Hi ok

At 1500, this is the Signal Strenght result so far.

I have a slight confession.....I noticed that I had put a large solid box (of vinyl) in front of the wireless router - and I guess this may also have had an impact. At least, the average seems to be increasing - as we speak it is now 43.% and going up. Sorry if that has also been a contributing factor (I am starting to convert my vinyl).

==============================================j

Signal Strength
This graph shows the strength of the wireless signal received by your player. Higher signal strength is better. The player reports signal strength while it is playing.
< 10 : 0 : 0%
< 20 : 1 : 1%
< 30 : 1 : 1%
< 40 : 35 : 32% ###############
< 50 : 66 : 59% #############################
< 60 : 8 : 7% ###
< 70 : 0 : 0%
< 80 : 0 : 0%
< 90 : 0 : 0%
< 100 : 0 : 0%
>=100 : 0 : 0%
max : 53.000000
min : 19.000000
avg : 42.819820

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 10:28
OK that is your problem right there - you have way too little signal strength and you NEED to get 100% at 1500 not 40-50%!!!!

Could something be interfering with your wi-fi? Neighbours maybe?
Try moving the router a bit...

cronshd
2008-07-12, 10:35
Ok - I moved the router a bit higher (that's all I can do right now).

It is starting to hit 60%.

What I don;t understand is that my laptop which is about 1m away from the Squeezebox gets a 100% signal.

Why would that be?

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 10:45
Ok - I moved the router a bit higher (that's all I can do right now).

It is starting to hit 60%.

What I don;t understand is that my laptop which is about 1m away from the Squeezebox gets a 100% signal.

Why would that be?

The 2 network strength tests are completely different.

On the SS network test you need that line (near the bottom) that says >=100% to say 100.


The way a laptop interacts with a router is very different to the way that an SB interacts with its server via the router.

I bet you can browse the web just fine on your laptop? - means nothing when it comes to streaming music to an SB.

It is possible that there is something else happening.
Did you "enable performance monitoring"?

You need "buffer fullness" to be 100% too...you can see that on there.

cronshd
2008-07-12, 11:00
Ok - I understand on the laptop getting 100% ok.

Do I need some signal boosting equipment?

Yes - I enabled Performance Monitoring - that gave the stats I sent.

The buffer though did not produce any numbers - it was always zero.....
...is that another issue?

At the moment - listening to a FLAC album - it seems just fine btw. Obviously I would like to get it to 100% if that is the appropriate standard.

cronshd
2008-07-12, 11:06
...and currently, the average is nearly 60%......

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 11:07
Ok - I understand on the laptop getting 100% ok.

Do I need some signal boosting equipment?

Yes - I enabled Performance Monitoring - that gave the stats I sent.

The buffer though did not produce any numbers - it was always zero.....
...is that another issue?

At the moment - listening to a FLAC album - it seems just fine btw. Obviously I would like to get it to 100% if that is the appropriate standard.

Well basically if it works ok for you...then it works OK! but I sense you are on the edge and may suffer in the future.

Do you have neighbours who might have wi-fi? Try changing the channel on the router to see if that helps.

cronshd
2008-07-12, 11:36
Hi Phil.

Ok - I changed channel - it is now consistently in the 70's.

Thanks very much for your help on this.

andynormancx
2008-07-12, 15:54
OK that is your problem right there - you have way too little signal strength and you NEED to get 100% at 1500 not 40-50%!!!!

You guys appear to be mixing up the two different tests, wifi signal strength one and the network test one (easy to do because the graphs look the same).

cronshd posted the details of his wifi signal strength test showing him managing 40-50% on it. Phil then responded saying "you NEED to get 100% at 1500 not 40-50%".

It is true that he needs to get 100% at 1500, but not on the wifi strength test. He needs to achieve the 100% on the network test screen. It is perfectly possible to get that while only achieving 40-50% on the wifi test and you are never likely to see 100% on the wifi strength test screen. It is obviously best to try and get the highest possible response on the wifi test though.

N.B. I'm not trying to say that the advice Phil gave to try and fix the problem was wrong, that was spot on, just pointing out that the two of you were looking at two different tests...

Phil Leigh
2008-07-12, 21:28
You guys appear to be mixing up the two different tests, wifi signal strength one and the network test one (easy to do because the graphs look the same).

cronshd posted the details of his wifi signal strength test showing him managing 40-50% on it. Phil then responded saying "you NEED to get 100% at 1500 not 40-50%".

It is true that he needs to get 100% at 1500, but not on the wifi strength test. He needs to achieve the 100% on the network test screen. It is perfectly possible to get that while only achieving 40-50% on the wifi test and you are never likely to see 100% on the wifi strength test screen. It is obviously best to try and get the highest possible response on the wifi test though.

N.B. I'm not trying to say that the advice Phil gave to try and fix the problem was wrong, that was spot on, just pointing out that the two of you were looking at two different tests...


Yes thats right. I run 7.x wired so its hard for me to remember what the tests look like for ear;ier versions/wireless!

cronshd
2008-07-13, 07:37
You guys appear to be mixing up the two different tests, wifi signal strength one and the network test one (easy to do because the graphs look the same).

cronshd posted the details of his wifi signal strength test showing him managing 40-50% on it. Phil then responded saying "you NEED to get 100% at 1500 not 40-50%".

It is true that he needs to get 100% at 1500, but not on the wifi strength test. He needs to achieve the 100% on the network test screen. It is perfectly possible to get that while only achieving 40-50% on the wifi test and you are never likely to see 100% on the wifi strength test screen. It is obviously best to try and get the highest possible response on the wifi test though.

N.B. I'm not trying to say that the advice Phil gave to try and fix the problem was wrong, that was spot on, just pointing out that the two of you were looking at two different tests...

In the end, I was looking at both..(if you follow the threads I think you will see that)........it was a rapid learning experience me and thanks to everyone (especially Phil) who helped me out.

SS 6.5 produced a summary report which I looked at this morning - it said:

Performance Summary : David
Please queue up several tracks to play on this player and start them playing. Then press the Reset link below to clear the statistics and update this display.

Reset

Summary
Control Connection : OK
Streaming Connection : OK
Signal Strength : OK
Buffer Fullness : Low
Server Response Time : OK
Warnings
The playback buffer for this player is occasionally falling lower than ideal. This is a Squeezebox2/3 and so the buffer fullness is expected to drop at the end of each track. You may see this warning if you are playing lots of short tracks. If you are hearing audio dropouts, please check your network signal strength

-----------------------------

So I take from that (and of course, my listening experience) it is fine!

(Next thread will be about Squeezecenter install.....I just need to pause and try a few things out first so as (hopefully) not to waste people's time).

Phil Leigh
2008-07-13, 09:54
The best advice I can give you is:

0) make a note of ALL of your 6.5.x setup preferences - some of these MAY need to re-entered by you later under certain circumstancesin 7.x
1) (if windows) reboot the PC then stop SS if it auto-starts before installing new version of SC.
2) use the latest version of 7.x you feel comfortable with. I use 7.2 (8th July nightly) and it is rock-solid.
3) if you hit problems get back on here and we can sort it out


7.x rocks over 6.5.x
Good Luck
Phil

lanierb
2008-07-14, 10:36
I don't know if this is fully resolved yet or not, but if not, looking at the netstumbler output I would suggest putting the router on channel 1. Also, what model linksys router is it? If it is an older WRT54G or any vintage WRT54GL you can replace the firmware with a great third party firmware called Tomato and crank up the transmit power a bit.