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MrJB
2008-06-30, 11:08
When my XP server is in standby (every morning), and I Power On one of my SB3s, the messages read: 1) Waking Up Squeezecenter and then 2) Connecting to Squeeze Center. Then the SB3 turns off. So I turn it on again and everythings fine. The PC woke up, and is ready to go. Seems odd. Is there a way to set a timeout value or something so the SB3 stays on and goes to the 3) Free Your Music and then 4) Music Library prompt without pressing the power button again? Thanks to anyone with a suggestion.

radish
2008-07-01, 07:09
I don't know of a way of changing how long it waits, but I'm surprised it doesn't wake back up automatically when the server comes on line. I don't use WOL but on the rare occasions my server is down, the players all reconnect on their own when it comes back. Does the server have a dynamic or static IP?

MrJB
2008-07-01, 09:09
I believe the address is fixed, since I am using MAC address control security on the home network. It seems that the SB3 just doesn't wait long enough for the server to fully wake up and become active after the WOL is sent.

Here's the log entries:

[08-07-01 11:00:39.6400] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6445] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6478] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6524] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6892] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: SqueezeCenter (7.0 - 17793)
Connection: Keep-Alive
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:03:15 GMT
Content-Length: 859
Content-Type: text/plain

[08-07-01 11:00:39.6400] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6445] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6478] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6524] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6892] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error

MrJB
2008-07-01, 09:28
However, in the router configuration, WAN type is set to DYNAMIC.

radish
2008-07-01, 13:40
However, in the router configuration, WAN type is set to DYNAMIC.

WAN is irrelevant. My point was that regardless of how long the SB waits after sending the WOL, even after giving up it should at some point notice that the server is there, in the same way that a server coming up on it's own (i.e. not because of WOL) gets seen and connected to. I'm just wondering aloud why this isn't working in your case, I don't really have an answer :)

MrJB
2008-07-01, 14:40
I think the SB3 'goes dark' (shuts off) if it has an error that it can't recover from. The errors are posted above. I'm going to restart this thread with a request for an explanation of the log messages. Thanks.

MrJB
2008-07-01, 14:57
After (or during) a successful WOL, the SB3 'goes dark' (shuts off) after placing the following error messages in the SqueezeCenter log. the display reads: 1) Waking Up Squeezecenter and then 2) Connecting to Squeeze Center, and then goes dark. So I turn it on again and everythings fine. The PC woke up, and was ready to go. Can I Free My Music without another Power button push? Happens to all my SB3s )two wired, one wireless). Can anyone provide further detail or, even better, how to fix?

Gratefully yours.



[08-07-01 11:00:39.6400] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6445] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6478] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6524] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6892] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: SqueezeCenter (7.0 - 17793)
Connection: Keep-Alive
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:03:15 GMT
Content-Length: 859
Content-Type: text/plain

[08-07-01 11:00:39.6400] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6445] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6478] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6524] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-01 11:00:39.6892] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error



#4

moley6knipe
2008-07-02, 03:56
Can't help, I'm afraid, but just to add a "me too" - I'd assumed this was how the SB3 was designed to work, as mine have always done it! Guess not, then. Same error in te log for me, too.

radish
2008-07-02, 07:18
I think the SB3 'goes dark' (shuts off) if it has an error that it can't recover from. The errors are posted above.

The messages are from the server logs, and so are obviously nothing to do with the player :) My guess is that it's complaining the network isn't live yet.

The player goes dark because it can't find a server. The same thing happens if you just switch the server off. However, in most cases, when you switch the server back on, the player notices (because it's looking in the background, despite the screen being off). Then it connects and comes back up. I know this works because I've seen it happen, but what I'm wondering is whether something to do with WOL is causing this to not work, or whether it would if you left it a little longer.

mudlark
2008-07-02, 07:40
With my kubuntu system one press of the power button on the SB controller starts the computer. The machine starts the server and then the SB display defaults to the clock. the SB can then be used without logging in to the machine to use the web gui.

oreillymj
2008-07-02, 08:16
This is a problem on Windows. There's a delay between the machine waking up from standby and when it will start processing network requests. Depending on the speed on the machine it may wake quick enough for the SB3 not to time out, but I often see the same problem.

I'm guessing that the SqueezeNetwork errors you see are also caused by this block that Windows puts on network traffic. I'm also assuming that the PC that's running SC has Internet access and can normally connect to SqueezeNetwork. Otherwise this is just a normal DNS error.

The only way to fix this is to ask for the Wake On Lan wait time to be increased in the firmware. It could be a setup option.

Wake On Lan wait time 5,10,20,30 seconds.


BTW - Just on this comment "I believe the address is fixed, since I am using MAC address control security on the home network."

Your MAC address and IP address are different things. The MAC address is unique and "burned" into the network card. It is fixed. However the IP address is part of the IP protocol running at a higher level within the OS of your machine. This can be dynamic or fixed. So MAC filtering is allowing or denying a physical device. Whether those machine have static or dynamic IP's is completely independent of MAC.

MrJB
2008-07-02, 09:04
Mudlark,

What buttons can you push to get the SB3 off the Clock screen into Play or Menu Select mode? Say, does pressing an Up/Down button work? or a Left/Right button? So far, I've found that pressing Play or Power causes the SB3 to wake up after it goes dark (goes to no screen saver when power is off) after WOL.

I agree that the Squeezecenter software does not appear to be waiting long enough after a WOL to give the system time to restart, and that a controlling timeout param might be a solution, if there is not one already.

I suspect that this thread might be considered a nit-pick by many of those who develop, maintain, and support the Squeezecenter software. I only mention it because perhaps there is already a workaround that someone knows about.

Regards.

moley6knipe
2008-07-02, 09:31
Ah, I've been reading up in Bugzilla. In my case http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4424 might explain my "darkness"! My SB3 is set to blank when off. I'll try it later.

I've been trying to find a bug on Bugzilla concerning this, but can't find it for the life of me now. It was one to do with making the WOL timeout user adjustable, and I seem to recall it was marked as resolved for 7.0.1. So two questions - can anyone find this bug? and if it is a user adjustable option, where is it?!

radish
2008-07-02, 10:25
What buttons can you push to get the SB3 off the Clock screen into Play or Menu Select mode?
Only play or power will wake up a player. Hold left will send it to setup mode and hold power will restart the device.



I agree that the Squeezecenter software does not appear to be waiting long enough after a WOL to give the system time to restart, and that a controlling timeout param might be a solution, if there is not one already.

It's not Squeezecenter, it's the player firmware. I can't find a ticket for this issue so feel free to raise an enhancement request at http://bugs.slimdevices.com.

mudlark
2008-07-02, 11:07
Mudlark,

What buttons can you push to get the SB3 off the Clock screen into Play or Menu Select mode? Say, does pressing an Up/Down button work? or a Left/Right button? So far, I've found that pressing Play or Power causes the SB3 to wake up after it goes dark (goes to no screen saver when power is off) after WOL.

I agree that the Squeezecenter software does not appear to be waiting long enough after a WOL to give the system time to restart, and that a controlling timeout param might be a solution, if there is not one already.

I suspect that this thread might be considered a nit-pick by many of those who develop, maintain, and support the Squeezecenter software. I only mention it because perhaps there is already a workaround that someone knows about.

Regards.

My machine/SB3/music store works like this.

Press power button on remote and after about two minutes the clock appears on the SB3. (Beat that windows) The login screen appears on computer.

Pressing play on the remote leaves me with nothing, but the machine was previously using Alien BBC. I use the up down arrows selected song and off the sound goes. Alien BBC works again and now playing Radio 2. I use the wakeonLAN feature to turn my machine on.

If you would like me to give you any further examples or settings then let me know. (ie machine speed etc) I do know that I set the thing up with fixed ip addresses and I use wired LAN.

Regards,

Mike.

Phil Leigh
2008-07-02, 11:52
My machine/SB3/music store works like this.

Press power button on remote and after about two minutes the clock appears on the SB3. (Beat that windows) The login screen appears on computer.

Mike.

OK - My XP pc is in standby.
I press the power button on the SB remote.
7 seconds later I am ready to play music...

mudlark
2008-07-02, 12:15
OK - My XP pc is in standby.
I press the power button on the SB remote.
7 seconds later I am ready to play music...

Phil,

You show off, my XP machine takes 4.9 hours to startup. How do you get that response?

Did you cheat by turning off the player while connected to the web?

mike

I've since read about standby with XP and as I guessed you are cheating. The machine still is running with the RAM holding the system up. All you've done is run down the hard drive and shutdown some processes. Our version of off is nearly off. The processor etc is all down the only bit running is the LAN card some usb bits and an LED on the mobo and the bits in the bios that allow the ATX psu to pick up.

MrJB
2008-07-02, 12:53
Phil,

Is there anything display on the SB when you power up? Or is it "dark?" I've been waiting all day for my XP machine to go into standby while the SB3 displays the clock...so I can test per the bug system post, but it doesn't. Can't do it manually because there is no screen or keyboard attached, and Windows Remote Desktop doesn't allow a standby option.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4424

The post describes the problem exactly, but the tester says WORKSFORME.

I'm going to come clean here and mention I am still on SC 7.0. Does anyone really think its fixed in 7.1?

Regards

radish
2008-07-02, 14:23
I've since read about standby with XP and as I guessed you are cheating.

It's not cheating, it's just different (and it's not Windows specific). Read up on ACPI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acpi), specifically the difference between S3 (usually called Standby/Sleep), S4 (Hibernate) and S5 (Soft off). My Windows server will come up from S3 in maybe 5-10 seconds, S4 in maybe 20-30 and S5 in roughly a minute.

I assume from your posts that your box is going down to S5 when it's idle. Given that S5 recovery requires a full boot, and doesn't really use any less power than S4, I have no idea why you'd use it for a system you're frequently bringing up and down. I might use S5 when I go on vacation, but thats about it. If on the other hand it's only going to S4 then that seems very slow.

mudlark
2008-07-02, 14:36
My windows machine is overloaded with several years of illadvised programmes and I am too lazy to tidy it up.

what would be nice would be a programme manangement tool which allows you to understand what is happening when you boot up a machine. What Joe public is supposed to do with windows only god himself knows. An that's another problem, god is so bloody omnipotent he doesn't need a friggin' computer at all the smart git.

S1 to something else is no bloody use. What joe public wants is something like off = 0 per week + 10 mins startup, nearly off =2.00 per week + 1 minute startup etc.

mudlark
2008-07-02, 15:28
I've checked my version of hibernate and it shuts the machine right down. This allows me to turn the machine back on using the main switch where it shows a session screen for me to log into. It saves the session only and WOL doesn't work so it's worse than a normal shutdown.

radish
2008-07-02, 17:48
what would be nice would be a programme manangement tool which allows you to understand what is happening when you boot up a machine.

http://www.windowsstartup.com/startupinspector.php


I've checked my version of hibernate and it shuts the machine right down. This allows me to turn the machine back on using the main switch where it shows a session screen for me to log into. It saves the session only and WOL doesn't work so it's worse than a normal shutdown.
Score one for Windows then I guess... :) I just checked my box and it takes 7W when in S3 standby, which is basically nothing. I'm sure you can tweak whatever you're running to go to S3, then you should get startup in a few seconds.

mudlark
2008-07-03, 00:00
cheers radish, i'll definitely look at the startup monitor.

moley6knipe
2008-07-03, 00:15
Ah, I've been reading up in Bugzilla. In my case http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4424 might explain my "darkness"! My SB3 is set to blank when off. I'll try it later.

I've been trying to find a bug on Bugzilla concerning this, but can't find it for the life of me now. It was one to do with making the WOL timeout user adjustable, and I seem to recall it was marked as resolved for 7.0.1. So two questions - can anyone find this bug? and if it is a user adjustable option, where is it?!

I've now set my screensaver when off to Date/time, turned SB3 off, put PC in Standby. Turn on SB3, PC wakes (I'm going to time this one day, it's mighty quick), date/time appears on SB3 screen to show everything's up.

I can see why it's been designed this way (ie turning on SB3 whilst PC is off will wake SqueezeCenter and put player in last known state) but to me it feels broken in a way.

I would think most inexperienced users (like me, clearly!) would expect to press power on SB3 and see the SB3 screen light up in a ready to play state, regardless of what state the box was in before the server powered off. Anyway, and I hate using the phrase, does Average Joe know/use Wake On Lan?

MrJB
2008-07-03, 05:49
I tested with Screensaver When Off = None, Date and Time, and Now Playing. SB3 behavior is the same in all three cases. First press of Power:
1. Waking up squeezecenter
2. connecting to squeezecenter
3. display reverts to Power Off screensaver.
4. press power button again, and SB3 turns on
5. Free Your Music
6. SB3 is on and ready to go.

While not a big deal, it seems to me that one Power press should do it, and the SB3 should be powered up and ready to play when the server and Squeezecenter are fully awake. At the risk of beating a dead horse, it appears that Squeezecenter is logging an error, returning an error to SB3, and the SB3 is shutting off, which is does for some errors, as documented elsewhere in the forums. Here are the error log entries:

[08-07-03 07:22:00.6493] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.6604] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.7101] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.7256] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for update.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.7813] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for update.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: SqueezeCenter (7.0 - 17793)
Connection: Keep-Alive
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:24:48 GMT
Content-Length: 865
Content-Type: text/plain

[08-07-03 07:22:00.6493] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.6604] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.7101] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for www.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.7256] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 68.87.72.130 couldn't resolve IP address for update.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error
[08-07-03 07:22:00.7813] Slim::Networking::Async::DNS::resolve (208) DNS server 192.168.123.254 couldn't resolve IP address for update.squeezenetwork.com: Send: Unknown error

Again, not a big deal, but not as clean as it could be. Is this a new enhacement request or a bug fix (see http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4424)?

'Nuff said.

Best Regards.

radish
2008-07-03, 06:55
I At the risk of beating a dead horse, it appears that Squeezecenter is logging an error, returning an error to SB3, and the SB3 is shutting off, which is does for some errors, as documented elsewhere in the forums.

No. I've explained this already in this very thread (as have other people). The SB3 is going dark because it can't connect to the server. The errors in the server log are the server complaining that the network link is down. Same cause for both - your server's network link isn't up right away after it wakes. The SC can't possibly be "returning an error" to the SB3 as the things aren't connected to each other! The solution is to have the SB3 wait a little longer before giving up on the connection, as discussed in the enh request you linked to.

Please leave the horse alone, it's not dead, it's pining for the fjords :)

MrJB
2008-07-03, 07:29
Got it. Two errors, one SB3 firmware waiting for the server, another the server waiting for the network. They happen at the same time but are not directly linked. To be squeaky clean, two new timeouts would be necessary. One in the SB3, and one in Squeezecenter. Good stuff. Sorry about the horse.

Best Regards.

stephentw
2008-10-10, 15:02
At the risk of mistakenly bringing an old thread to life. Did this get resolved? My setup does exactly this which isn't a massive inconvenience but it would be nice to just press the power on sb3 remote then it would wake up the server and alert me when its ready to play.

At the moment it does "waking up" then "connecting to" then darkness then after a little while I get the time displayed so I know its awake but I then have to press the power again before I can play anything.

I'm also curious about the levels of hibernation in acpi that someone mentioned. They said it takes 7 seconds to wake up and start playing. Mine takes 35, I know hardly a disaster but to reduce it would be awesome. I don't understand what in Windows the levels relate to i.e. is S5 a full "Hibernate" in the power options as thats what I use.

I use Windows XP and have the server set to Hibernate after 2 mins of inactivity. If I change this to "Standby" will that be S3 or S4? Also which of these uses the least power? As the server will be off during the day while I'm at work so I want the lowest power option available.

MrJB
2008-10-12, 19:50
[QUOTE=stephentw;348783]At the risk of mistakenly bringing an old thread to life. Did this get resolved? My setup does exactly this which isn't a massive inconvenience but it would be nice to just press the power on sb3 remote then it would wake up the server and alert me when its ready to play.



As far as I know, the Wake from Standby/Turn on Squeezebox processing has not changed. It still takes two ON button presses, one to wake the server from standby (after which the Squeezebox display shows the Off screensaver), and another ON button press to go from the Squeezebox Off status to the Squeezebox ON status, with the display showing as configured.
Not sure why it works like this, or whether it has to or not, but get used to it. There doesn't seem much interest in changing it.

I'm using Standby, not Hibernate, because I think its faster, no disc i/o necessary, contents of memory is preserved, although discs are off. It seems that on one of my XP systems the fan is turned off in standby, but on another, it is not. Not sure why.

Hope that helps.

stephentw
2008-10-13, 14:41
Standby doesn't power down my usb drive so it's no good, unless theres a way to change what standby does and doesn't power down?

MrJB
2008-10-13, 16:45
From what I gather from Wikipedia, S3 is Standby, S4 is Hibernate in XP terminology. S3 leaves certain devices powered up, so it can accept a Wake command, from, for example, a USB mouse. Which is not optimal in your instance. I suggest you simply lengthen the timeout, so that the server goes into Hibernate/S4 much less often. Then you are not always waiting for it to wakeup. Not very technical, but usually the simplest solutions are the best.

Regards.

DaveWr
2008-10-14, 11:30
Why can't we expect a sensible UI for this feature. If I press the ON button I wan't the SB3 On. I don't have any great expectation that it will just wake my server. I pressed it on to play music. Seems a very simple UI request. The On button to achieve ON. Is there any activity to change this at all?

David

2 x SB3 + Boom

MrJB
2008-10-14, 14:50
I agree. Having to press the ON button twice, while not a serious problem, is a bit of a ragged edge in the UI that could be smoothed out. The only place I am aware of that this behavior was addressed is in this bugzilla entry: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4424 . This entry states that the problem was resolved, although the last entry suggests that it should be reopened. Not sure where to go from here, other than go back and press the ON button a second time...

Regards

stephentw
2008-10-14, 15:51
It doesn't really bother me having to hibernate the whole thing to get the effect I desire, it's still playing in under a minute, yeah standby is tons quicker but it's not a massive issue and I'd rather use less power for longer I think. But since I don't know what the difference in power consumption would be between the 2 I can't decide if I'm wasting my time with hibernate.

MrJB
2008-10-14, 17:06
Stephentw,

Quickly, here's another idea. Replace your USB drive with one that has an automatic sleep mode. Seagate has new, very nice external drives with this feature. Then you can use Standby/S3, AND your external drive spins down.
Here's the link:

http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/Free-Agent.html

I've had a Seagate Mirra Personal Server (great,great product, no longer made) running in the basement for years. I'm a Seagate fan.

Regards.

stephentw
2008-10-15, 10:35
Thanks for that but I've already got a usb drive thats supposed to powerdown automatically, however it only does it when I hibernate the machine. So I thought that maybe the standby was keeping the usb ports alive, presumably to wake from keyboard commands or mouse maybe? Thus the drive isn't powering down when in standby but is in hibernate.

fcm4711
2008-10-16, 15:09
Hi there

When SB3s display goes dark after showing 'Waking up SqueezeCenter' and 'Can't connect...' it does _not_ turn itself off. Only the display is off, but in the background SB3 tries hard to (re-)connect to your server.

That is the reason why there is no such thing as a timeout. It's much better than a timeout, SB3 just reconnects when the PC / SC are ready again.

Same is true from the moment on you shut down your SC or PC running SC. SB3 tells you that it tries to 'Connect...' and if after a while it cannot find SC turns off the display _only_, but again in the background it tries to (re-)connect about every 10 seconds.

Here is an experiment for you: With your PC / SC running and SB3 connected, shut down your PC and then restart it via keyboard or other means on your PC. SB3 will reconnect just fine when your PC and SC are up and running again. (No need to press any buttons on the remote.)

While doing this experiment you could measure the time it takes for your PC / SC and SB3 to be up and running again. This is about the time you need to wait and be patient after pressing power to have SB3 wake your PC. Just let SB3s display go dark and wait. Eventually it will connect.

As for why SB3 is not 'on' after pressing 'power' and waking SC. The answer is, it depends on whether SB3 was 'on' or 'off' when your SC went away. SB will come up in the same state it was before SC / PC went sleeping.

Hope this helps
Felix

DaveWr
2008-10-17, 11:07
Hi there

When SB3s display goes dark after showing 'Waking up SqueezeCenter' and 'Can't connect...' it does _not_ turn itself off. Only the display is off, but in the background SB3 tries hard to (re-)connect to your server.

That is the reason why there is no such thing as a timeout. It's much better than a timeout, SB3 just reconnects when the PC / SC are ready again.

Same is true from the moment on you shut down your SC or PC running SC. SB3 tells you that it tries to 'Connect...' and if after a while it cannot find SC turns off the display _only_, but again in the background it tries to (re-)connect about every 10 seconds.

Here is an experiment for you: With your PC / SC running and SB3 connected, shut down your PC and then restart it via keyboard or other means on your PC. SB3 will reconnect just fine when your PC and SC are up and running again. (No need to press any buttons on the remote.)

While doing this experiment you could measure the time it takes for your PC / SC and SB3 to be up and running again. This is about the time you need to wait and be patient after pressing power to have SB3 wake your PC. Just let SB3s display go dark and wait. Eventually it will connect.

As for why SB3 is not 'on' after pressing 'power' and waking SC. The answer is, it depends on whether SB3 was 'on' or 'off' when your SC went away. SB will come up in the same state it was before SC / PC went sleeping.

Hope this helps
Felix

Hi Felix,

Thanks for the clarity, but if the reason the server went into sleep mode was because one turned off the SB3, I cannot see why with a press of the on button causing a WOL, the server assumes you want the SB3 in Off mode. This still seems totally illogical from a user perspective. This is especially tricky, if you want to use a Harmony type remote to achieve a sequence of actions to play music.

Is there ever likely to be any change or option? I seems to me this requires a firmware change, as a freshly awoken server can only take up where it left off. It has no record of why it's been woken.

Regards

David

MrJB
2008-10-17, 16:32
Go Dave !

DaveWr
2008-10-18, 02:54
Mr JB,

I think people assume I am being awkward. I have owned Slim stuff for many years, I think the whole concept is great and I remain committed. However this whole server based music storage is starting to become mainstream. People will want their servers to sleep - power consumptions etc. New mainstream users will expect simple things to be logical. My suggestion is just one of simple logic. There are others, like the boom should send a WOL packet 2 minutes before alarm time. these small changes should make the Squeeze experience better. My wife is confused why one needs to switch a device on twice!!

We see lots of changes to new versions with many added features, I am just looking for some simple improvements.

Dave

stephentw
2008-10-18, 03:51
I too was aware that it doesn't go back to sleep and keeps trying to connect, as after the screen darkens for a while it then comes back with the clock, showing that its connected to the server.

My gripe is the same, I have to press power once to send the wake on lan then once to actually be able to bring it to the stage where I can pick a track to play.

Maybe the sb3 going back to sleep isn't the way to describe it, but there is some sort of timeout going on, as it displays "cannot connect" then displays a blank screen then as you say keeps polling the server in the background but when it finds the server it doesn't return to an "on" state to pick a track or start playing. It returns to a standby state which requires the extra button press to start choosing tracks/playing.

Hope you understand what I mean by this.

MrJB
2008-10-18, 05:59
Dave,

I'm cheering you on because I AGREE with you!

Regards

madsandrup
2008-10-20, 11:08
Hi.

When the SB says "Waking Up SqueezeCenter..." then the SB already knows that the SC server is in sleep mode. Then a "flag" could be 'set', telling SC server to "Power on" the SB when the server is started and ready to go.
Users who don't want the SC server turned on 24/7 will power off the SB and then the SC server will automatic go in standby in a user defined time.
So why should the SC server remember the last state of the SB?

Regards
Mads

fcm4711
2008-10-20, 11:32
Hi guys

How do you achieve the server going to sleep automatically when you power off your SB3? Are you using a plugin for that?

Thanks
Felix

DaveWr
2008-10-20, 12:43
Hi Felix

Yes I am using SvrPowerControl Plugin from GHarris. It's only Beta but works well. You can manually sleep the server with a long press of the sleep button, or it will auto sleep if all Squeezeboxes are inactive.

The only issue now is how to get the ON process simplified.

Regards

Dave

MrJB
2008-10-20, 12:47
I'm using Windows XP Pro. If the Power Option on the Control Panel is set to Standby, the PC goes into S3 Standby mode after an inactive period of a specified length of time. Pretty standard stuff!

DaveWr
2008-10-20, 12:48
Hi.

When the SB says "Waking Up SqueezeCenter..." then the SB already knows that the SC server is in sleep mode. Then a "flag" could be 'set', telling SC server to "Power on" the SB when the server is started and ready to go.
Users who don't want the SC server turned on 24/7 will power off the SB and then the SC server will automatic go in standby in a user defined time.
So why should the SC server remember the last state of the SB?

Regards
Mads

Hi

This is what I mean't. Needs a hopefully small firmware change!

Regards

madsandrup
2008-10-20, 22:27
Hi

I do like MrJB, using Windows XP power option.
In the beginning I had to press the pause button until the display show's "Stopped" and then power off the SB. But I have now changed an option on the SC which says something like "Stop when power off" instead of "Pause when power off". In pause mode my SC server wouldn't go into standby.
This might have a connection to the plugin "Prevent windows from standby while playing" which is pretty useful :-)
Sorry for the mismatching text's, but I got it all in Danish.


Regards,
Mads

fcm4711
2008-10-21, 01:23
Hi all

Thanks for the information. It's now more clear to me what you want. It's not about the server not waking up and it's not about the player not connecting to it, it's about the player connecting to your sever and being in the 'off' state despite the fact that you pressed 'power' on the remote, true?

Well, I am not sure there is an easy fix that works for everyone in every situation and I don't want to introduce another preference which normally only leads to more confusion than it helps.

Why don't you look at it this way: If there was no WOL functionality on SB3 you would need to power up your PC first and then power on your SB3. Now with WOL the first time you press 'power' it is waking up your PC (only much more convenient since you don't have to walk to your PC) and the second time you press 'power' is to turn on your SB3?

Felix

DaveWr
2008-10-21, 01:50
Hi all

Thanks for the information. It's now more clear to me what you want. It's not about the server not waking up and it's not about the player not connecting to it, it's about the player connecting to your sever and being in the 'off' state despite the fact that you pressed 'power' on the remote, true?

Well, I am not sure there is an easy fix that works for everyone in every situation and I don't want to introduce another preference which normally only leads to more confusion than it helps.

Why don't you look at it this way: If there was no WOL functionality on SB3 you would need to power up your PC first and then power on your SB3. Now with WOL the first time you press 'power' it is waking up your PC (only much more convenient since you don't have to walk to your PC) and the second time you press 'power' is to turn on your SB3?

Felix

Hi Felix,

Thanks for you interest, it is really helpful. Im a little confused though - The SB3 knows its waking the server, it also knows when the server is awake, therefore it only requires a state change (a simulated ON request). I cannot see how this requires configuration. People surely don't use ON just to wake a server. In light of firmware changes for the Boom to support line out options, this would seem trivial.

It is a major flaw when using a clever remote like the Logitech Harmony One. We have discrete on / off commands, but on does need to achieve on. You can work round this with an additional on command after a say 10 second delay, but then you have to keep the remote pointing at the SB, hardly user acceptable.

I hope you can get some interest for this enhancement. Is there anybody else we need to raise it with?

Regards

Dave

2 x SB3+ Boom

dick
2008-10-21, 05:27
I kind of agree with you Dave, but am not sure the affect from a user's point of view would be different enough to elicit a change request.

My server is usually hibernating when I get round to pressing the red button on the remote. I then see "Waking the server...", after which I get a blank screen and then the time/date screensaver. This takes around 30 seconds. I then need to press the red button again before selecting some music and pressing play.

I'm thinking out loud here but I wonder whether reducing this keypress load by only 1 button press is significant enough? I would much prefer to be able to press "play" and have the server wake and then start playing whatever the last playlist was.

However, I agree that "ON" should mean "ON" - anything else makes the UI unclear.

DaveWr
2008-10-21, 07:07
I'm thinking out loud here but I wonder whether reducing this keypress load by only 1 button press is significant enough? I would much prefer to be able to press "play" and have the server wake and then start playing whatever the last playlist was.

However, I agree that "ON" should mean "ON" - anything else makes the UI unclear.

Hi Dick,

I understand the small nature of the issue, but it is strange and inconsistent. It would be useful if the Boom issue of a WOL 2 minutes before alarm could also be added. You last statement is the key issue. This whole thread has been discussing the nuances of not working in that manner, down to the point of Felix having to describe what actually happens.

Dave

stephentw
2008-10-21, 09:55
To me (and I'm not a programmer by any stretch) it just seems that perhaps the timeout length needs to be longer before the sb3 will realise it's not connected and display a message, that would avoid the "can't find....." message then there needs to be something telling the sb3 that when it has a connection to the server it needs to put itsself in an "on" state rather than a "standby". That would eliminate the extra button press.

mortod
2008-10-21, 12:18
The behaviour I see is actually slightly different to what I have seen discussed here. As I understand it, the observation in this thread is that on turning on the SB, the first WOL packet wakes the server, and then the second WOL packet connects to the SC.

In my system the SB is normally powered off completely (by that I mean the PSU has no power going in or out of it). When I do turn the PSU on (controlled by a trigger from my amp), the SB powers up and gives the normal connecting to SC message. But the server does not wake up (ie the SB does not even send a packet). Pressing the right arrow to reconnect is normally then enough to wake the server and connect to SC, though there is sometimes a timing issue.

This would seem to be a more fundamental fault - ie the SB not even sending a WOL packet in the first place.

dick
2008-10-21, 12:23
I've posted this point elsewhere but it is in fact Logitech's company policy to be kind to the environment:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/169/4842&cl=gb,en

It would therefore make sense for there to be as much encouragement as possible to allow users to conserve as much energy as possible. One way of doing this of course is to allow your server to go into standby, hibernation or equivalent and to allow smooth and consistent launching.

Whenever I'm asked how the SqueezeBox works there always seems to be a disappointed "oh" when I explain the PC has to be on in order to stream music. I imagine the thought of having a server running 24/7 is off-putting to some.

Goodsounds
2008-10-21, 12:41
I've posted this point elsewhere but it is in fact Logitech's company policy to be kind to the environment:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/169/4842&cl=gb,en

It would therefore make sense for there to be as much encouragement as possible to allow users to conserve as much energy as possible. One way of doing this of course is to allow your server to go into standby, hibernation or equivalent and to allow smooth and consistent launching.

Whenever I'm asked how the SqueezeBox works there always seems to be a disappointed "oh" when I explain the PC has to be on in order to stream music. I imagine the thought of having a server running 24/7 is off-putting to some.

Most companies have an environmental policy like this. I'm not saying it's insincere, but it is not unusual.

If you are serious about doing everything possible for the environment as regards your own home usage, you can turn off and or unplug all equipment you have when not in use. Reverse course when you want to use what you have. Doing it the way you describe wastes energy because your equipment continues to consume its standby or phantom load. And the only way to cut off the load of your SB equipment is to unplug it.

So, you already have a functioning wake-on server capability - it's you!

MrJB
2008-10-21, 14:02
"I would much prefer to be able to press "play" and have the server wake and then start playing whatever the last playlist was."


I agree. This is the best behavior. And this is the way it works if the Squeezecenter host is already awake, and you press ON (and your settings are correct). If the WOL and ON functions were combined, one button press would get you from standby to playing!

This thread is about a minor enhancement request for convienience sake. It has nothing to do with being energy efficient or environmentally friendly. With respect to those issues, the current Squeezebox behavior is fine.

Regards.

PS How DOES one quote other's posts and get that nice highlighted format I've seen elsewhere? Clicking on Quote doesn't seem to work that way for me?

Regards.

DaveWr
2008-10-21, 15:23
It appears general consensus is too trivial - shame - I was only looking to sensibly simplify what happens when you switch on.

Regards

David

PS Still not trivial for the Harmony / Pronto Users - but never mind thanks for the interest.

MrJB
2008-10-21, 16:47
I've posted an enhancement request in the bug reporting system, and will leave it to the Powers That Be to determine whether or not it is worthwhile.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9777

Regards

PS. If I were in England, I would certainly go have a pint to celebrate.
Young's would be good.

MrJB
2008-10-21, 19:09
PS How DOES one quote other's posts and get that nice highlighted format I've seen elsewhere? Clicking on Quote doesn't seem to work that way for me?

Regards.

Oh, I guess it does...

DaveWr
2008-10-22, 01:50
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9777

Regards

PS. If I were in England, I would certainly go have a pint to celebrate.
Young's would be good.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your interest, I voted.

Regards

moley6knipe
2008-10-22, 11:53
Me too! Drives me up the wall, to be honest...

DaveWr
2008-10-22, 13:34
If you really care please vote for the enhancement:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9777

Regards