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View Full Version : Poll: Which user category do you belong to ?



erland
2008-06-11, 22:14
There has recently been some discussions among developers which user categories the users of Squeezebox and SqueezeCenter can be divided into. The main reason is to get a better understanding when implementing new features to know which type of users we are targeting with a specific feature.

Description of the user categories (on the wiki):
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User_categories

So if everyone would take the time to vote on this poll and post additional clarifications regarding the different user categories or completely new user categories it would be great.

A typical user belongs to more than one category, so please don't vote "Other" unless you feel that none of the user categories fits you.

Additional descriptions or suggestions of completely new user categories can be posted directly in this thread or by editing the wiki page mentioned above.

Nonreality
2008-06-11, 22:33
A good share geek because after getting the Squeezebox I had to give up some of my structured ideas to make things work right, but the geek in me was ok with that. The geek in me also wants to be a bit of an audiophool so continues to try things, without spending much, to increase sound quality. So geek wins out I guess, but not as much as some here are, due to my lack of intelligence, which is probably a good thing.

MrC
2008-06-11, 23:07
I find these categories a little forced with respect to the first three (geek, audiophile, tagger) which feel like they operate at different points in time:

1) installation (geek)
2) browsing and search (tagging)
3) listening (audiophile)

So, to me it feels like there are only two choices [ 1,2,3 ] and 4. I find myself less focused on 3, but don't feel I can make a choice between 1 and 2.

Perhaps better would be to allow weights to each category:

1: 40%
2: 40%
3: 20%
4: 0%

Forum software packages provide "polls", so questions gets forced into a world of radio buttons, which are perhaps not the right tool for attempting to understand a user base. Its like asking users if they more strongly agree that they have two elbows or ten digits.

finnbrodersen
2008-06-11, 23:23
To select just one option is maybe not correct,
I would see myself as

Geek 20% (new hardware+software is allways fun, but do not loose focus)
Audiophile 50% (do not loose focus of what it is all about: listen to music)
Tagger 30% (one wrong tag really annoys me)
"Normal" 0% (don't think so)

Philip Meyer
2008-06-12, 00:27
I fail to see how this will help development decisions, because clearly there will be users of all types; the product has to meet the requirements of all of them. If any Actor comes out at 90%, it should be Massmarket Joe, except Massmarket Joe won't be on the forum voting in this thread.

The voting is flawed, and largely irrelevant.

Voting should be on what functions or general characteristics users want, as the same functions may be wanted across types of users. What do users consider most important out of: reliability, performance, better/different ways of browsing libraries, etc.

But I'll play along anyway. I'm all except Massmarket Joe. I like to tinker with plugins, beta versions, development and therefore a geek. But, I certainly take time to get my library tagged correctly, and at the end of the day I do use SC to listen to music as an audiophile.

Mnyb
2008-06-12, 01:29
I don't realy fit.

do we have geek ligth /audiphile ligth ;-) or something, so i choosed none.

But this poll is flawed, who ansers this poll, you have to weigth the geek votes by a factor off 1/100 .

Send an personal survey to every byer and offer an T-shirt if filled in.
Then you have better statistic.

jeebers
2008-06-12, 05:05
Somewhere between geek and structured music lover. Certainly closer to the latter, so that's what I went for.

bigfool1956
2008-06-12, 06:29
Despite my IT background, and despite the fact that I'm beginning to get a tad frustrated with my current tagging, I firmly put myself in the audiophile category.

Mind you if you want to sub-categorise audiophile, then I'm a tweak-geek lol.

PLynas
2008-06-12, 07:09
I am a little concerned that the results on here might be a little skewed. I would argue that people who fit into the 'geek' category are more likely to read these forums on a regular basis and respond to this post. At the other end of the scale, people who fit into the 'average Joe' category are less likely to read these forums and respond.

I think this is important because for the product to be successful and massmarket then surely focusing on appealing to the 'geek' is not going to do this.

Just for the record, I placed myself in the 'audiophile' bracket.

Pale Blue Ego
2008-06-12, 07:22
I voted Geek, but that doesn't mean I like to tinker. I'm the type of Geek who seeks stability, reliability, and redundancy in my systems.

I thought I was an audiophile, because since I was a kid I've loved music, audio gear, and great sound. But I had to kick myself out of that club about a decade ago. I had a pile of cash and could afford pretty much any component or system I desired. But I ended up just buying a nice audio rack from Salamander because I was happy with the system I had. Shameful, I know.

Music Lover? Definitely. "Structured" Music Lover? I have no idea what that means. If it means Bach, then I'm not one.

Joe Six Pack? Nah. The kind of beer I like costs $6 a bottle.

pfarrell
2008-06-12, 07:46
Pale Blue Ego wrote:
> Music Lover? Definitely. "Structured" Music Lover? I have no idea
> what that means. If it means Bach, then I'm not one.

Over in the developers forums, there is more on the words. They are not
great. Structured Music lover is an attempt to talk about tag mavens. Or
meta tag mavens. Folks who want to know the sidemen on the record, want
biographys of the sidemen. Want photos of the mics used.

If you ever listened to Jazz DJs of 30 years ago, you know the
information that is of concern. Some good classicial stations DJs today
still do some of it, trivia about the times or composer, period
instruments, etc.

It comes from many discussion in the Ripping forums about how to tag
Jazz and "Classical" music, as the normal tag structure is just not rich
enough. What we need to do it right is a relational database, so we can
add metadata from other sources and be able to search and browse on it.

The concept of ID3 tags works well for pop/rock, but really can't cut it
for jazz, "classical" and some others.

While I'm a geek, and an audiophile, I really want better tools to
manage my jazz collection. Bias alert: I was the jazz DJ at my college
radio station.



--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

iPhone
2008-06-12, 08:30
Description of the user categories (on the wiki):
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User_categories

Additional descriptions or suggestions of completely new user categories can be posted directly in this thread or by editing the wiki page mentioned above.

Are we all not Geeks by definition? We have PCs, some Slim Devices product(s), and we are all Forum members for crying out loud! Is that not the Webster’s definition of a Geek?

I know I fit the Geek profile for I am a Technophile at heart (have to have that new gadget). I am into music and the quality reproduction of sound (and I like my equipment, not love but like) so I fit the Audiophile profile. And yes, I am anal retentive about my FLAC files being properly tagged and having the correct album art but its about listening to the music first and foremost. I do go nuts when Last.FM accuses me of having an incorrect/improper tag. But tagging comes after all the others. Tagging is the last and final thing when everything else is done. So I am semi in that profile.

So what choice in the Poll am I suppose to check? GeekTechnoAudiophileSemi-Tagger? I don't see that one.

erland
2008-06-12, 12:14
I fail to see how this will help development decisions, because clearly there will be users of all types; the product has to meet the requirements of all of them. If any Actor comes out at 90%, it should be Massmarket Joe, except Massmarket Joe won't be on the forum voting in this thread.

The voting is flawed, and largely irrelevant.

Don't worry, I'm sure we are all aware that the poll result can't be trusted, since all user categories aren't represented to the same level in the forum. The idea was really to pick-up some discussion to see if there are people that feel that they doesn't fit in any of these categories.



Voting should be on what functions or general characteristics users want, as the same functions may be wanted across types of users. What do users consider most important out of: reliability, performance, better/different ways of browsing libraries, etc.

IMHO it is important to understand which users you have, because that gives you a better understanding what to focus on.

The problem with a poll about functions and characteristics will be flawed in the same was as this poll. The reason is that some user categories will not even bother to answer the poll, so the poll result will be weighted towards the votes from geeks (which currently seems to lead this poll) even though we might want to target other user categories.

konut
2008-06-12, 15:29
The geek 4%
The audiophile 93%
The structured music lover 1%
Massmarket Joe 2%

Philip Meyer
2008-06-12, 15:52
>IMHO it is important to understand which users you have, because that
>gives you a better understanding what to focus on.
>
To a great extent, I don't believe it will give a better understanding on what to focus on, even if the results were a true reflection of the customer base. The same result will ensue.

We know that the customer base is split across all categories of user, but not necessarily what the ratios are. All categories of user need to be supported, as it's a universal product. It's not meant to be tailored for any single type of user.

Mike New
2008-06-12, 18:03
Audiophile. But not a highest-dollar, get-that-last-1% type. For me, it's all about the music -- and I'm just enough of a geek to troubleshoot Squeeze problems, wish for a better (music) interface, and scan the Forum every now and then.

gharris999
2008-06-12, 20:17
Oddly enough, I have a fair amount of aleatoric music in my highly structured collection.

gharris999
2008-06-12, 20:19
Want photos of the mics used.
LOL !

erland
2008-06-12, 21:47
>IMHO it is important to understand which users you have, because that
>gives you a better understanding what to focus on.
>
To a great extent, I don't believe it will give a better understanding on what to focus on, even if the results were a true reflection of the customer base. The same result will ensue.

We know that the customer base is split across all categories of user, but not necessarily what the ratios are. All categories of user need to be supported, as it's a universal product. It's not meant to be tailored for any single type of user.
We obviously have different ideas regarding this because I completely disagree, if you don't know which type of user you are target you are going to fail to satisfy your customer.

In a product which is supposed to satisfy multiple user categories, you will have to look at each feature and decide which type of user that needs it. This is critical, because if you don't you end up doing a solution that may not work for the user category that really needs the feature. In some situations a feature has to be acceptable to several user categories, in some situations it really don't. If you don't know your users, you are going to end up implementing a too expensive solution or a solution that only fits one of the user categories, maybe not even the one that needs it most.

Some of my own plugins has totally failed for some user categories because of this. As an example, look at the Custom Browse plugin, with its flexibility and customization possibilities it will really just fit the geeks. However, if you think about which user categories that really need a more flexible browsing solution, "the geek" is one but I'm quite sure "the structured music lover" is another one. I bet that most (not all) structured music lover's that has thought about using Custom Browse, either hasn't bothered at all or has failed to get it to do what they want due to the configuration complexity. So this is a great example how a flexible browsing feature can fail to satisfy the main target if you don't know who you are targeting when implementing it.

Custom Browse of course, is really implemented with my own needs in focus, which also results in that it is really focused to satify the geek. So since my main priority often has been to solve my own problems first, I really don't see it as a failure. I guess my point is that flexible browsing implemented in SqueezeCenter the same way would miss some of its main targets. In the same way, flexible browsing implemented so it fits massmarket Joe would probably be way too expensive and might be to hard coded to even work for the geek and the structured music lover.

So IMHO, knowing which user category you are targeting with a specific feature is very important even thought the product itself needs to work for multiple user categories.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-13, 00:26
Well, I disagree that Logitech should now need to know SC's user base. It surely knows this already - it's for the categories of user that it designed each product to be targetted for. Transporters for Audiophiles, SB3 for everyone else.

>So IMHO, knowing which user category you are targeting with a specific
>feature is very important even thought the product itself needs to work
>for multiple user categories.
And I think that the users are not easy to categorise into 4 classes. Many will be a bit of all to some level, and features will overlap many classes. A survey to people that browse the forum (and geeks that read mail!) is not going to answer any questions. SC needs to cater for all.

What is good to know is what features/enhancement/bug fixes users want most. That is meant to be known by raising and voting upon bugs in bugzilla.

RaF93
2008-06-13, 01:00
hmm as some already voiced their doubts bout this before, i will skip em and voted anyways as I was interested in the result ;).
My choice been audiophile...guess though u can add some bit of geek to it. But as I work in IT for a living the joy in fiddling around with complicated computerstuff at home has been quite diminished as of late though not quenched.
Structured music lover would be the thing I dream of when I look at my collection though ;).

erland
2008-06-13, 09:04
Well, I disagree that Logitech should now need to know SC's user base. It surely knows this already - it's for the categories of user that it designed each product to be targetted for. Transporters for Audiophiles, SB3 for everyone else.

So this basically means that SB3 is designed for my 90 year old grandmother ?
And every new feature in SqueezeCenter must be designed to work good both for me and her ?

(Sorry, couldn't resist it)




>So IMHO, knowing which user category you are targeting with a specific
>feature is very important even thought the product itself needs to work
>for multiple user categories.
And I think that the users are not easy to categorise into 4 classes. Many will be a bit of all to some level, and features will overlap many classes.
So maybe the user categories I defined was the wrong ones ?

Better suggestions that would fit everyone better would be appreciated, so if anyone has ideas how to divide the users into different categories, please post.

MuckleEck
2008-06-13, 11:33
I voted Geek...although I would like to be an audiophile...my ears aren't up to scratch and my wallet ain't fat enough. The "tagger", I am one of them too but only when I get the CDs, once they are on the box they stay out. Couldn't be mass market JJoe!

So Geek was the only sensible choice although I would have preferred a category split between all of the first three...:-)

Philip Meyer
2008-06-13, 17:09
>So this basically means that SB3 is designed for my 90 year old grandmother ?
Unless she is an audiophile, in which case the Transporter was designed specifically for her. Big knob, bigger screen, bigger sound ;)

>And every new feature in SqueezeCenter must be designed to work good both for me and her ?
All functions should be designed to be as easy to use as possible, and unobtrusive for people that don't need/want those functions.

>So maybe the user categories I defined was the wrong ones ?
>
Maybe. I don't think it would make any difference.

>Better suggestions that would fit everyone better would be appreciated,
>so if anyone has ideas how to divide the users into different
>categories, please post.

There are different ways to categorise users. By type (as you have attempted), or by the hardware they use to play music (PC Server, NAS, Squeezebox, Transporter, SBC). Perhaps by age group. Perhaps by their listening environment (lounge or bedroom, loud parties or headphones). If half the user base were grandmothers, and half were spotty teenager geeks, would it really influence the way that geeky functions are designed, so that grandmothers can use them too?

I think "Geek" is too strong. Perhaps open it up a bit more to be people who are not afraid to try beta software and plugins; they are gadget lovers. They constantly strive for new features. Enthusiasts.

Music Lover and Audiophile are similar to me - both care about listening to music.

Goodsounds
2008-06-13, 18:36
What you get when you take a poll in an internet forum, are the opinions and reactions only of people who spend time reading that forum. And in these forums, most of the active participants seem to me to be technical types or at least people who are technically capable. Oftentimes helping people like me who have problems or questions.

I currently have a bit more time on my hands than I've had previously, and so I have enjoyed reading here for the past few weeks. I am decidedly non-technical, and for people like me, if things are working OK, there is little interest in tinkering with something that doesn't need tinkering. I have no ability to make the products do anything other than what someone else makes them do, and I have no interest in trying. But for those who do, thank you.

iPhone
2008-06-13, 20:44
So maybe the user categories I defined was the wrong ones ?

Better suggestions that would fit everyone better would be appreciated, so if anyone has ideas how to divide the users into different categories, please post.

Did you read my earlier post? I think is more of a multiple choice instead of a hard square peg in a square hole. Its more like a round peg that just happens to also fit in a few of the larger Square Holes. A more of a check all that apply to you, maybe.

Nostromo
2008-06-16, 08:52
I didn't vote, since I don't fit cleanly in one category.

I'm a geek, but of the "I don't have the time to deal with that shit" (pardon my French) variety.

I'm an audiophile, but without the gear. :-( If I told them what I have, the people in the audiophile forum would point at laugh. I'm more of a music of lover than a gear lover.

I also like structure, but some people here are clearly more anal than me about those things.

ralphpnj
2008-06-17, 00:46
I just had to vote "other" simply as a form of protest against the limited choices of this poll. Taking the choices one by one:

1) Geek - since I don't run a Linux box, don't write code and try to post messages on the forum which do not require programming skills in order to be properly understood - I am definitely not a geek. However, since I do run several plug-in, with varying degrees of success, I must be at least part geek.

2)Audiophile - if anything I'm closer to this choice than any of the others since I have a Transporter and most of the music in my library is FLAC. However, using a hard drive based music system means that I've accepted that digital music is okay and have therefore forsaken analog - a very big audiophile no-no.

3)structured music lover (sml) - I would love to be an sml but as Mr. Farrell pointed out earlier, the inability of current file tags to handle meta-data without jumping through hoops leaves the jazz and classical music listener no real means of properly tagging their music to any degree of usefulness. But the tiny little album cover art on the Control sure looks cute even though it is about as useful to me as a bicycle is to a fish.

4)Massmarket Joe - I don't think it's possible to be a " Massmarket Joe" when about 1/3 of one's music collection isn't recognized by iTunes.

All in all, I agree with the people who rated themselves by percentage. So I'm 20% geek, 60% audiophile and 20% sml.

morris_minor
2008-06-17, 02:54
. . . the inability of current file tags to handle meta-data without jumping through hoops leaves the jazz and classical music listener no real means of properly tagging their music to any degree of usefulness.

As a confirmed Squeezophile with a collection that's 50% "classical", 40% jazz, 10% world - pop - "other", the tagging limitations are the only downside to a great system. Having to pull out a CD booklet to find some essential piece of trivia about a jazz date goes against the whole ethos of the system. I happily spin vinyl - and even buy new and "previously cherished" discs still, but CDs as a product are so last century.

In terms of the poll - well: 30% geek, 20% audiophile, 50% music lover. Given the tools I'd massage these figures for sml. But I don't lose sleep over imperfect tags :o)

For me the term audiophile implies a love of quality sound, not necessarily a love of music. . . .

corbey
2008-06-17, 06:14
An audiophile who's also a geek, but when it comes to the Squeezebox, I just want it to work. I bought it to stream music and for the most part, it's done that very well, especially since the introduction of SqueezeCenter. In my opinion, it's about as close to an "appliance" as a PC-based, wireless networking product can be, which is supposed to be a compliment.

moley6knipe
2008-06-20, 04:23
I didn't vote, since I don't fit cleanly in one category.

I'm a geek, but of the "I don't have the time to deal with that shit" (pardon my French) variety.

I'm an audiophile, but without the gear. :-( If I told them what I have, the people in the audiophile forum would point at laugh. I'm more of a music of lover than a gear lover.

I also like structure, but some people here are clearly more anal than me about those things.


Me too. Exactly the same. I've spent/am spending a lot of time ripping and tagging my discs (again!) to get them exactly right, I'm going bit-perfect (dBpoweramp) and Lossless (ALAC as I use AppleTV too). Not interested in tagging things like liner notes, lyrics, etc - just the basics.

However, once it's done correctly, it's done and I won't tinker with it - I bought the SB3 to listen to it!

I've added a few little bits here and there, like LazySearch and other plugins, I'm using the cracking ACC app from SilverRS8, but generally I want to do the fiddling once and that's it.

I personally don't think that the "average Joe" would ever really get a Squeezebox 3. Maybe a duet. My thinking being that, based on my experience of friends/work colleagues, most music is downloaded from torrents. So the tagging is awful/non-existent - but everyone accepts that's just how it is. They get used to finding the latest album by Supergrass because they know it's under "Unknown Artist", about 5 or 6 entires down the list. To me that's weird, but I see it happen all the time. On something like the SB3, that's so dependant on tags (and rightly so IMHO), that's really not going to work. On itunes on your laptop it kinda is (albeit it would drive me insane!)

Good thread, this. Always going to be skewed, of course, given that it's in this forum, but useful nonetheless!