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View Full Version : Survey: What's your listening to fiddling ratio?



Howard Passman
2008-06-11, 04:00
I guess in the interest of better data you should list how long you've had a SB. So.....

How long have you been using a SB?

What is the ratio of listening time in relation to messing with it to make it work?

Which version of SB do you have?

Me: 2 months ratio: 1/10 Version DUET

A major portion of my initial fiddling time was spent trying to make ReadyNAS DUO work well. Not a good idea. Also a fair amount was spent trying to make 3rd party, once removed plug-ins working.

All in all I would still say I get about 3 days of use before I run in to some issue that takes way to long to resolve.

Howard

andynormancx
2008-06-11, 04:12
6 weeks, 100:1 (listening to fiddling, it could well be even higher, it isn't as if I have been keeping a careful track of my listening)

Just about none of my fiddling has been connected with fixing problems, it has almost all been to do with installing interesting new plugins and applets (AlienBBC, Lyrics, CustomBrowse, RetroBrowser, Games, Transition Updater etc). I have had very few problems with the day to day use on my SqueezeBox Controller/Receiver. It just works.

It should be said that I don't use SN, which seems to be something you have a lot of issues with.

chill
2008-06-11, 04:15
> 1 year. > 100:1

What andynormancx said. Tinkering with plugins mostly. My SB3 and SB2 just work - whether wired, wireless, connected to a homeplug+switch etc. Very happy with them.

Chris

MillmoorRon
2008-06-11, 04:52
Had SB almost 2 years.

Tinker time varies wildly - I have spells where I just listen then others when I look heavily into what I can do with plugins!

finnbrodersen
2008-06-11, 05:06
Had the Duet system for 1 month now, ratio 100:1 (listen:fiddle)

ralphpnj
2008-06-11, 05:10
I been a SqueezeBox/Transporter user for about 1 1/2 years.

Ratio: about 50:1 listening time to fiddling time.

I do believe that most of my fiddling time has less to do with SqueezeCenter and more to do with the computer and OS that I'm running SC on. The computer is an old Dell 4600, which is on it's last legs, and the OS is Windows XP. SqueezeCenter runs perfectly fine but the computer ends up needing a reboot every day or two regardless of my listening habits.

By the way, I have two SqueezeBoxes, one Transporter, one Squeeze Controller and several plugins installed, all which normally work without a hitch, as does SqueezeNetwork, on the rare occasions that I listen to SN.

aubuti
2008-06-11, 06:18
Been using SBs about 2.5 years (1 SB3, 2 SB2s, 2 duets)
Listening:fiddling ratio is roughly 50:1, but it varies from 10:1 to 200:1.

Hardly any of my fiddling is to fix problems. It usually has to do with either (a) installing beta versions of SC, especially during the beta test period for the Duet, or (b) hurdles related to my unorthodox hacked Buffalo LinkStation servers, which often need fiddling to build certain perl modules (one has a PowerPC processor, the other an ARM processor, and each present their own challenges). Of course, fiddling because of (b) is amplified by the bleeding-edge changes related to (a)!

I hardly fiddled at all during the year or so between when I got 6.5 beta running on the LinkStation and when I had to sort out installing 7.0 beta on the LinkStation to test the Controller. But during the Controller test period I was fiddling all the time. And somewhere along the way I picked up the habit of switching over to SN while I'm tinkering so that I can listen and fiddle at the same time (build-perl-modules.pl takes a long time to run on those NASs).

That said, I'm looking forward to retiring the LinkStations and using a more conventional processor so that upgrades and testing require even less fiddling. It's much easier with a standard x86 cpu.

radish
2008-06-11, 06:23
Been a customer for somewhere around 4 years. Probably listen for an average of 2-3 hours a day on one or other of my units. Time spent fiddling is a tricky one. There's time spent fixing genuine problems (very small - 20 minutes last week when my TP disagreed with an unstable build of SC), then there's time I spend fiddling with plugins etc to add features. That's longer but I don't count that as it's entirely optional. Finally there's time I spend on here helping others and trying to reproduce problems, which is longer again.

egd
2008-06-11, 06:46
Very little time spent fixing problems (except for a recent spate with the Controller) where the ratio of listening : fiddling inverted from 100:1 to 1:100. End result - Controller and receiver are lying in a cupboard and may re-emerge sometime in the future, but truth be told I'm happier without it - with the IR I'm back to 100:1. Anyone in AU looking for a Duet going cheap, PM me.

Howard Passman
2008-06-11, 06:57
Seems to be folks are pretty happy with the SB2 and 3. Maybe I should have asked more specifically about the DUET since that what I'm using.

Howard

jsprag
2008-06-11, 08:35
Have an SB3 (1.5 yrs) with controller (1.5 months).

Mandatory fiddling: probably 150:1
Includes installing original SS and doing periodic updates along the way to now be at SC 7.1. Also includes time setting up a dedicated server somewhere along the way.

Discretionary or optional fiddling: maybe 60:1
Includes messing with plugins, trying out stuff on a virtual machine that is configured the same as real server, etc....

I don't have the duet package, but I do have the controller. That component integrated into my existing software/hardware setup seamlessly and I had it up and running in less than three minutes.

Ben Sandee
2008-06-11, 09:03
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Howard Passman <
Howard.Passman.3aufxz1213192801 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:

>
> Seems to be folks are pretty happy with the SB2 and 3. Maybe I should
> have asked more specifically about the DUET since that what I'm using.


Don't like the results? Change the question! Still don't like the result?
Make up results!

Ben

iPhone
2008-06-11, 09:32
I guess in the interest of better data you should list how long you've had a SB. So.....

How long have you been using a SB?
Almost two years. SB3 first, then had to have a Transporter, more SB3s, then a Duet right when it came out.


What is the ratio of listening time in relation to messing with it to make it work?
100,000:1 (listening to fiddling) Reason for the ratio is that I have never had to fiddle with them to make them work as they have always worked. And if you find that hard to believe, check out my Last.FM page!

Which version of SB do you have?
Three SB3s, one Duet, and one Transporter

Now I have a question that needs to be asked. Howard, why do you think so many people have multiple Sqeezeboxes? It sure as hell is not because they don't work and are a constant problem so we bought another one just to try it again!

iPhone
2008-06-11, 09:35
Seems to be folks are pretty happy with the SB2 and 3. Maybe I should have asked more specifically about the DUET since that what I'm using.

Howard

Even more up time and more music with no fiddling because I don't have to look for the remote (its in the charger) or go to a PC on the network to use the Web UI because I have the Duet's Controller! Very happy with Duet.

Nostromo
2008-06-11, 09:41
I bought my SB3 a couple of years ago and I listen to it all day long. I didn't have to fiddle much with it to solve Squeezebox/SqueezeCenter related problems. For a while, I did have frequent problems with my wireless network. But that had nothing to do with the Squeezebox. But now that I have changed my Internet service provider, my network problems vanished. Musical bliss!

Mitch Harding
2008-06-11, 09:47
I can't remember the last time I fiddled with it. I'm sure during the
first few weeks of ownership I spent a lot of time fiddling, learning
new features, and deciding how exactly I wanted it set up. Since then
I've only had to fiddle due to occasional problems or upgrades or when
I decided to try a new feature/plugin (like the Random Mix plugin
which I now regularly use).

I've owned SBs for over 5 years. I forget exactly when I got my first one.

So my ratio of fiddling:listening has to be something like 1:60 or better.

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:00 AM, Howard Passman
<Howard.Passman.3au7ub1213182301 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> I guess in the interest of better data you should list how long you've
> had a SB. So.....
>
> How long have you been using a SB?
>
> What is the ratio of listening time in relation to messing with it to
> make it work?
>
> Me: 2 months ratio: 1/10
>
> Howard
>
>
> --
> Howard Passman
>
> Sorry slow to respond. I don't spend that much time online.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Howard Passman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16674
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48751
>
>

Mitch Harding
2008-06-11, 09:54
I pre-ordered the Duet, so I've had mine for as long as anyone, other
than the beta testers. Mine worked great out of the box and I've had
next to no problems with it. I can recall only two issues I've had.
One problem was that the controller got stuck in a loop where it kept
trying to do firmware updates, which would fail, and then it would try
again. There was an easy workaround for this issue posted on the
forums, so I probably only spent 5-10 minutes on it.

The other issue was that with some of the earlier builds, my SBC would
randomly reboot occasionally. It never interrupted the music, and in
every case it was back up and running before I really needed to use it
again anyway. I haven't observed this problem in some time, though.
Anyway, I spent no time fiddling on account of this, although I did
spend a few minutes searching the forums about it.

So, let's tally up. I'll be generous and say I've spent 20 minutes
fiddling. I've owned the Duet for, what, 3 months now maybe? 3
months * average of 30 days per month * 24 hours per day * 60 minutes
per hour = 129600 minutes of ownership, roughly. Of course, I wasn't
listening all of that time, but I do listen quite a bit. To be
conservative, I'll say I listened to it 10% of the time. So 12960
minutes of listening, 20 minutes of fiddling.... Looks like (roughly)
a 1:648 ratio of fiddling to listening.

Even better than my SB experiences, to be honest.

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Howard Passman
<Howard.Passman.3aufxz1213192801 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> Seems to be folks are pretty happy with the SB2 and 3. Maybe I should
> have asked more specifically about the DUET since that what I'm using.
>
> Howard
>
>
> --
> Howard Passman
>
> Sorry slow to respond. I don't spend that much time online.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Howard Passman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16674
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48751
>
>

Nonreality
2008-06-11, 10:33
Like most that have posted almost all my fiddling has been of my own choosing. Plugins, betas, and the like. I do play around with it a lot but not for the reasons that you are looking to uncover. I'm probably 20:1 in favor of listening.

Howard Passman
2008-06-11, 10:42
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Howard Passman <
Howard.Passman.3aufxz1213192801 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:

>
> Seems to be folks are pretty happy with the SB2 and 3. Maybe I should
> have asked more specifically about the DUET since that what I'm using.


Don't like the results? Change the question! Still don't like the result?
Make up results!

Ben

I'm interested in finding out about the DUET because it's what I have. I may be guilty of not thinking my question out carefully enough at first so I guess that gives you the right to be nasty. I think the results are pretty positive toward the product so far. Of course there had to be someone who would come along and not want to play, but had to make a negative comment. Congrats

P.S. Not sure where exactly I made up the results, but I'm sure you're right.

JJZolx
2008-06-11, 10:46
I like fiddling. I'd say it's about 1:1.

pfarrell
2008-06-11, 10:48
Mine has to be many thousands of hours listening to each hour of
fiddling. I've bought three SqueezeBoxes, a Transporter and a Duet. I
bought them to listen to music.

No plugins for me.

But I do run a lot of beta software. Most of that doesn't need
"fiddling" it either works or doesn't. I have reported a few bugs during
the betas.




--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

Ben Sandee
2008-06-11, 11:11
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Howard Passman <
Howard.Passman.3auqd01213206302 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:

>
> Ben Sandee;310841 Wrote:
> >
> > Don't like the results? Change the question! Still don't like the
> > result?
> > Make up results!
> >
> > Ben
>
> I'm interested in finding out about the DUET because it's what I have.
> I may be guilty of not thinking my question out carefully enough at
> first so I guess that gives you the right to be nasty. I think the
> results are pretty positive toward the product so far. Of course there
> had to be someone who would come along and not want to play, but had to
> make a negative comment. Congrats


Thanks, I appreciate it.


>
> P.S. Not sure where exactly I made up the results, but I'm sure you're
> right.
>

I wasn't talking about you making up results, but that's the next logical
step with polls. The poller usually has some agenda to push and I was just
pointing that out.

As always, message tone comes across not at all in an email and you've
attributed some level of nastiness to my post that was never there on my
side.

Good luck with your polling.

Ben

smm
2008-06-11, 14:15
Duet owner for 3 months

Fiddling occurs in spurts. I had a lot of trouble at the beginning, about 1:1 for about a week. It would then act up every 1-2 days for a couple of weeks, but I could usually get it to work with a few minutes of fiddling, and then could listen for a couple of hours. Now it acts up about once a week. When that happens, I usually just turn it off and do something else, and when i come back it more than likely works.

I like the idea of the Duet so much, and enjoy it so much when it does work, that I put up with this performance, but if it were a TV or radio or any other household appliance, I'd return it in a second.

sebp
2008-06-11, 15:24
Got my first SB3 one year ago and the second one 6 months ago.
Fiddling (customization + plugins testing) to music listening ratio was around 1:1000.

Upgrading my ReadyNAS with SqueezeCenter nightly betas in february was a bit tricky at first, so I think the ratio went down to 1:100 during this time.

My personal experience with the Duet, in early april, was not so good, since the first unit I had received had a really flaky wireless. I spent tens of hours trying to make it working until the tech support accepted to replace the unit. Without the SB3s, the ratio would have been 500:1.

Second Duet unit setup worked like a charm : it took me less than 10 minutes to have both the controller and the receiver working and upgraded, of which 5 minutes were required to enter my 512 bit WPA key (vs <1 mn for the SB3, don't like that wheel so much). But I'm still out of luck : this controller's Back key is broken. This new hardware problem hasn't required many fiddling anyway, just had to submit a support ticket on the Logitech website and replied to them once or twice. I'm still waiting for the new replacement unit, but the ratio is back to what it's been with the SB3s since then.

Enoch Soames
2008-06-11, 18:08
Mostly listening, very little fiddling over the past 18 months. And the fiddling almost always turns out to be because of quirks in my system, problems with my computer, etc. I've got two SB3s and the Duet and all three have worked great out of the box.

iPhone
2008-06-11, 19:26
Duet owner for 3 months

Fiddling occurs in spurts. I had a lot of trouble at the beginning, about 1:1 for about a week. It would then act up every 1-2 days for a couple of weeks, but I could usually get it to work with a few minutes of fiddling, and then could listen for a couple of hours. Now it acts up about once a week. When that happens, I usually just turn it off and do something else, and when i come back it more than likely works.

I like the idea of the Duet so much, and enjoy it so much when it does work, that I put up with this performance, but if it were a TV or radio or any other household appliance, I'd return it in a second.

When you say turn it off, do you mean with the remote or do you unplug it? The Squeezebox family is never "Off", when you press Power or select 'Turn Off Player' from the SBC, the unit goes into standby (or sleep if you prefer), but anything but Off. If you are not unplugging it and it starts working again after being asleep, it sounds like a network issue or software conflict on your PC.

Most people start fiddling with the Duet/SB3 when they should leave it alone until they eliminate their own network or PC/Server being the issue. After all the Squeezebox family of products are Network Devices. If the PC/Server or network are not playing nice the Squeezebox doesn't have a chance to play at all.

I find many people quick to blame the product when it is their Network, PC/Server, Firewall, software conflict, LAN or PC power saving settings, or AntiVirus that is actually the problem. Sometimes all that is needed is to reboot ones PC and restart SC.

Goodsounds
2008-06-11, 21:39
Seems like I've had my stuff forever - probably because I don't want to remember when I didn't have them. I think I bought my first SB3 about 3 years ago, unless they weren't out then, in which case it was 2 or 2 1/2 years ago. Bought a second one about 6 months later.

I'm not an IT or technical or engineering type at all. Far from it. Other than a few rare small issues (incl. one a few weeks ago caused by a Microsoft overnight update that was pushed out), all of which were quickly solved, it has been plug and play for me. The "system" works day after day, it has been really a joy. I just add music, and an add-on here and there. It may take me 10 minutes instead of the five it should take if I knew what I was doing, but generally no problems. My kids come home to visit and play their own music by running the server program on their laptops.

Howard, I have been following your ongoing problems, and I understand you have a more complicated setup than I have. You may want to try something else, you've proven (at least to me) that it wasn't meant to be for you. I wish you good luck.

MuckleEck
2008-06-11, 23:30
Seems to be folks are pretty happy with the SB2 and 3. Maybe I should have asked more specifically about the DUET since that what I'm using.

Howard

I use SB3s and the Duet listening to fiddling = 100:1 setup and go, although no squeezenetwork and only locally stored music

Howard Passman
2008-06-12, 02:06
Howard, I have been following your ongoing problems, and I understand you have a more complicated setup than I have. You may want to try something else, you've proven (at least to me) that it wasn't meant to be for you. I wish you good luck.

I'm in agreement with you and starting to investigate some other ways to accomplish what I want. I really like the idea of the SB, but I have a demanding job and a lifelong hobby/part time interest that doesn't get much attention these days. I simply wanted what a lot of users got, but I don't think the DUET was the right choice. I did ask early on when I was starting to get a clue, whether the SB3 was less buggy. I didn't get much response, but I think that may have been a better way to go.

Thanks and have a great day,

Howard

dsendecki
2008-06-12, 04:20
I have four receivers and a controller. I can honestly say that I have spent in total about 30 minutes setting everything up. This included a WHS out of the box. That was about two months ago.

I spent considerably longer re-organizing poorly tagged MP3s, but this is hardly the fault of Slim Devices. Of course, everybody's mileage varies, but my fiddle factor is and was 0.

Granted, I run everything stock and dont bother with plugins because I don't have the time should anything go wrong!

Sike
2008-06-12, 06:10
I have a SLMP3 14 SB2/3's and a duet and have been using them for 5, 6 or maybe even 7 years.

Ratio is probably 100'000:1

The only fiddling I do is getting things like MusicIP to work.

I remember to good old days when the reason an update wasn't working could be solved by Sean putting a chip in an envelope and sending it over.. and then exchanging it on the Slimp3..

Howard Passman
2008-06-12, 10:38
All I can say is WOW!

Seems that the folks that are really getting along well are the ones that avoid the 3rd party stuff and in some cases SN. Of course I really like the SN feature and XM radio.

Howard

TCM
2008-06-12, 10:49
I've had my SB3 since November/December 2005 and I'm very happy with it. I don't know the "listening to fiddling ratio", but I do know that there's been very little fiddling and very much listening :)

Windows XP pro & MCE
Plugins: LazySearch, LastFM/SlimScrobbler, Magnatune, MusicInfoSCR, SuperDateTime, TimeSpeller

maggior
2008-06-12, 19:20
I have 2 SB3s. I regularly use SoftSqueeze and remote streaming at my job. I purchased my first one 1.5 years ago.

Like most others here, my fiddling is by choice. My most recent bout of fiddling was to get set up with Music IP. My other bout of fiddling was when I moved from Windows to Linux. That was mostly OS stuff - getting SAMBA configured, pointing iTunes to my music files over the network, etc.

I like the fact that there are things to fiddle with. If I had to fiddle because I was in a state where I could not play music, I would be quite frustrated. Fortunately, I haven't found myself in that position yet.

Prior to getting my SB, I had a large learning curve with networking and wireless configuration. I'm glad I was over that prior to getting my SB.