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View Full Version : why does SC need to know if an album is a comp?



MrSinatra
2008-06-06, 11:12
i have a few questions for the guru's here...

we know that COMP tags as well as the VA logic detection both can classify an album (or track) as a compilation to SC7. are we all agreed on that?

[...it may also be true that other things do as well, such as folder name and location, or certain strings in tags, (like "Various Artists"). does anyone know if this is, or is not, the case? (meaning, if you had no COMP tags and had VA logic detection turned off, would SC7 use any other criteria to conclude some album or track was from a comp?)...]

in any case...

my main question is why does this classification matter?

in other words, what is the benefit to SC7 "knowing" if such and such an album or track is from a compilation or not?

yes, i understand that if the VA logic determines something is a comp, it places it, or sorts it, in the VA section of your SC library.

but what if you had no comp tags at all, (i don't), and what if you turned off VA logic detection, and instead relied on other tags to sort your music properly? in that scenario, what downside is there to SC not knowing some album or track is from a comp?

i am not saying that it isn't important for SC to know. i am just saying that if someone asked me why SC needs to know, i wouldn't be able to answer that question.

the only thng i know positive comp classification does, is resort comps into the VA section, but beyond that, i don't know why SC needs to know.

and since proper sorting can be achieved more easily and precisely using tagging methods, i don't know why classifying comps is necessary.

if anyone can explain the benefits, please do. thx!

Nonreality
2008-06-06, 11:27
My guess it because of the proper use of tags. Not everyone does. Also Comp is a tag that Itunes seems to use a lot. When I first started here I thought my tags were fairly good coming from Itunes. It had used the comp on a lot of albums that had one guest on them. Not what I wanted.

JJZolx
2008-06-06, 11:28
A few just off of the top of my head:



So that "track-only" artists can be suppressed from the artist list when browsing artists.


To determine formatting and presentation in web and other interfaces. A compilation album is most often by "Various Artists". Otherwise you're left to choose one (which is wrong) or all of them (we've seen that before, and it's very ugly).


Grouping. Having a pseudo-artist of "Various Artists" means that users can easily find these albums under that artist.


If any/all/none of the above work as you expect in SqueezeCenter then it's an implementation issue, not a conceptual one. Go to a music store and you'll undoubtedly see (probably by genre) a bin with compilation albums that can't be grouped under a particular artist.

MrSinatra
2008-06-06, 11:45
My guess it because of the proper use of tags. Not everyone does. Also Comp is a tag that Itunes seems to use a lot. When I first started here I thought my tags were fairly good coming from Itunes. It had used the comp on a lot of albums that had one guest on them. Not what I wanted.

i'm not sure i understand your points here. bad tags are bad tags. i wouldn't expect SC to output anything but garbage if garbage is input.

my question is what is the purpose of knowing if something is a comp or not as far as SC is concerned? it looks like Jim has some good examples...


A few just off of the top of my head:

So that "track-only" artists can be suppressed from the artist list when browsing artists.

Jim, can you expound on this? it alone absolutely seems like reason enough. i did not know the comp classification did this. however, what if you did NOT want such suppression?


To determine formatting and presentation in web and other interfaces. A compilation album is most often by "Various Artists". Otherwise you're left to choose one (which is wrong) or all of them (we've seen that before, and it's very ugly).

i'm afraid i don't quite follow you here... what do you mean "choose one" or "all of them." what exactly is the problem you are running into here, if a VA album is not classified as a comp, with the web interface?


Grouping. Having a pseudo-artist of "Various Artists" means that users can easily find these albums under that artist.


right... but then again, proper tagging could accomplish that. i mean if its a question of sorting, tagging seems better equipped to handle that issue then identifying something as a comp or not, (which can be hit or miss).


If any/all/none of the above work as you expect in SqueezeCenter then it's an implementation issue, not a conceptual one. Go to a music store and you'll undoubtedly see (probably by genre) a bin with compilation albums that can't be grouped under a particular artist.

i absolutely agree that some albums need to be grouped together.

i would have a Various Artists section for sure. but i might also have a Soundtracks section, and i might want that separate from the VA section, (like say, under soundtracks) and so on...

JJZolx
2008-06-06, 12:02
Jim, can you expound on this? it alone absolutely seems like reason enough. i did not know the comp classification did this. however, what if you did NOT want such suppression?

This is the first compilation option under Music Library options. Either group these albums together (under the VA artist) or list them under each artist. What it means is whether or not every single artist should be in the artist browse list. Say you have a compilation album with 20 different artists. The software at some point must recognize that the album on which all these artist appears is a compilation album - otherwise it's an album by 20 different artists, and each one will be in the artist listing no matter what.

Again, there have been many, and still probably are some bugs with how this option works.


i'm afraid i don't quite follow you here... what do you mean "choose one" or "all of them." what exactly is the problem you are running into here, if a VA album is not classified as a comp, with the web interface?

Say I have a compilation album that is by 20 different artists. When it's listed in the web interface, like every other album displayed it's going say that the album is by _someone_. Like "Revolver by The Beatles", I'm going to have "Verve Jazz Masters by _someone_". If you don't recognize the album as a compilation then it's either "by (pick someone)" or else it's "by Louis Armstrong, Oscar Peterson, Sarah Vaughn, Dizzy Gillespie, Stan Getz, etc. etc."

radish
2008-06-06, 12:04
i'm afraid i don't quite follow you here... what do you mean "choose one" or "all of them." what exactly is the problem you are running into here, if a VA album is not classified as a comp, with the web interface?


Let's say you have an album with 10 tracks, each with a different artist tag but the same album tag (obviously). Now, in a list of albums formatted as "Album by Artist" you have to figure out what to put in the Artist bit for this album. You have three choices:

1) All of the 10 artists stuck together - ugly
2) One of the artists (essentially picked at random) - wrong
3) Some special value like "Various Artists" - requires knowledge that this is a compilation

JJZolx
2008-06-06, 12:07
Let's say you have an album with 10 tracks, each with a different artist tag but the same album tag (obviously). Now, in a list of albums formatted as "Album by Artist" you have to figure out what to put in the Artist bit for this album. You have three choices:

1) All of the 10 artists stuck together - ugly
2) One of the artists (essentially picked at random) - wrong
3) Some special value like "Various Artists" - requires knowledge that this is a compilation

Good explanation.