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View Full Version : Could this replace the Controller scroll wheel?



CardinalFang
2008-06-04, 23:57
http://www.kannuu.com/

Try the demo, finding music is much, much faster. Perhaps Logitech should license it for the next gen Controller and ditch the scroll wheel for some more substantial buttons? It would reduce component costs and feel a lot better IMO. All the other menus can be handled with the keys that would be part of this search system.

wolfzell
2008-06-05, 00:11
I very often search and find music via the association with the album art and not remembering the title, so this should replace only the text search method, but not the scroll wheel. Browsing through the album art of my collection with a sensitive control over the browsing speed is an important feature for me.


bye
Wolfgang

CardinalFang
2008-06-05, 00:47
Browsing through the album art of my collection with a sensitive control over the browsing speed is an important feature for me.

Me too, but the scroll wheel doesn't seem to do this very well, certainly not as well as the iPod interface which is a lot smoother. The scroll wheel is hopeless for search, choosing letters is painful, so perhaps a combination of the two is required?

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 01:15
http://www.kannuu.com/

Try the demo, finding music is much, much faster. Perhaps Logitech should license it for the next gen Controller and ditch the scroll wheel for some more substantial buttons? It would reduce component costs and feel a lot better IMO. All the other menus can be handled with the keys that would be part of this search system.

I hadn't seen Kannuu before, but curiously enough I started experimenting with something similar or though not so clever the other day. Mine just involved two buttons and it was a more simple binary search.

Now I need to learn enough lua to try and implement it on the Controller.

peter
2008-06-05, 01:18
CardinalFang wrote:
> wolfzell;308930 Wrote:
>
>> Browsing through the album art of my collection with a sensitive control
>> over the browsing speed is an important feature for me.
>>
>
> Me too, but the scroll wheel doesn't seem to do this very well,
> certainly not as well as the iPod interface which is a lot smoother.
> The scroll wheel is hopeless for search, choosing letters is painful,
> so perhaps a combination of the two is required?
>

I like the scroll wheel but searching is not much fun indeed. This
system looks very effective indeed.

A combination would probably be best. I'd like one of those five way
joysticks you can find on Garmin hand held GPS units. They work very
fast if you get the hang of them.

Regards,
Peter

peter
2008-06-05, 01:37
andynormancx wrote:
> CardinalFang;308926 Wrote:
>
>> http://www.kannuu.com/
>>
>> Try the demo, finding music is much, much faster. Perhaps Logitech
>> should license it for the next gen Controller and ditch the scroll
>> wheel for some more substantial buttons? It would reduce component
>> costs and feel a lot better IMO. All the other menus can be handled
>> with the keys that would be part of this search system.
>>
>
> I hadn't seen Kannuu before, but curiously enough I started
> experimenting with something similar or though not so clever the other
> day. Mine just involved two buttons and it was a more simple binary
> search.
>
> Now I need to learn enough lua to try and implement it on the
> Controller.
>

Sounds interesting. Couldn't it be done with the wheel?
Turn right for 'button 1', turn left for 'button 2'.

Regards,
Peter

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 01:58
Sounds interesting. Couldn't it be done with the wheel?
Turn right for 'button 1', turn left for 'button 2'.


I guess it could, but I was planning on using two real buttons and I was only really intending it for quickly jumping down to the initial letter on long lists. So it would work like this:

- screen is split into two with "0-9, A-M" on one side and "N-Z" on the other
- press "Add" if your initial letter is on the left, "Play" if it is on the right
- screen updates with whichever side you picked split into two
- again press "Add"/"Play"
- repeat

Within 5 button presses you should be narrowed down to a single initial letter at which point the list would jump to that initial letter.

So much less clever that Kannuu and probably only useful for jumping to an initial letter.

P.S. it is important to treat 0-9 as a special case to make sure you keep the total number of choices below 32, because as soon as you stray above 32 you need 6 button presses to narrow down to a single letter.

cliveb
2008-06-05, 02:58
For people wanting a quick and neat search facility, take a looks at Erland's Custom Browse plugin: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Custom_Browse_plugin

I do agree that the Controller wheel is curiously difficult to move in small steps. Moving just one item forward or back can be frustrating. I've never had this problem with the thumb wheel on my Rio Karma (which is like the wheel on a mouse rather than an iPod).

Something I recently discovered that helped is to use the thumb in a much "flatter" orientation. For rapid spinning of the wheel, one tends to use the tip of the thumb so that you can easily go round & round. But once you're close to the required place and need to to move a small amount, if you then "lay the thumb down" and use its pad (where the fingerprint is) instead of its tip, that seems to give better micro-control.

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 03:50
How does Custom Browse help ? I have to admit I installing it, becoming overwhelmed by it an giving up on it (I was trying to create a menu that let me browse by album artist rather than by artist).

cliveb
2008-06-05, 05:22
How does Custom Browse help ? I have to admit I installing it, becoming overwhelmed by it an giving up on it (I was trying to create a menu that let me browse by album artist rather than by artist).
Don't know about "album artist" - I've never used it.

My goal was to find a way to get to a known artist quickly, so I used Custom Browse to add an "Artists by Letter" menu item which provides an initial A-Z menu. This makes it easy to dive into a list of artists starting with the selected letter.

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 05:24
Don't know about "album artist" - I've never used it.

My goal was to find a way to get to a known artist quickly, so I used Custom Browse to add an "Artists by Letter" menu item which provides an initial A-Z menu. This makes it easy to dive into a list of artists starting with the selected letter.
Is there any documentation on how to do that ?

radish
2008-06-05, 06:29
When it comes down to it the design is just a few options you can choose between at each step. Nothing preventing those being on-screen options you choose between using the wheel. That would make it optional for those of us who actually prefer just scrolling through lists :)

Skunk
2008-06-05, 07:06
They don't mention how you find Zoot Allures though.

I'd like to see a similar circular menu on the Controller, e.g. the alpha-numeric characters split into two groups, A through T in the first circle, and U through 9 in the second- with the second group/circle being able to be reached quickly by scrolling backward, rather than twice round.

Just a thought, but whatever you do please leave (or improve) the wheel. My girlfriend has her hair to twirl, and I need my wheel.

CardinalFang
2008-06-05, 08:20
They don't mention how you find Zoot Allures though.

Wouldn't the trick be to scan the names in the library and produce a look-up table to quickly find the alternatives at each step, a bit like a sat-nav system does. Then any name is allowed, not just non-Zappa spelling.

mherger
2008-06-05, 08:26
> Wouldn't the trick be to scan the names in the library and produce a
> look-up table to quickly find the alternatives at each step, a bit like
> a sat-nav system does.

That is what the LazySearch plugin does, isn't it?

--

Michael

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 08:41
> Wouldn't the trick be to scan the names in the library and produce a
> look-up table to quickly find the alternatives at each step, a bit like
> a sat-nav system does.

That is what the LazySearch plugin does, isn't it?
What LazySearch does is only useful if you have a 0-9/A-Z keypad.

Nostromo
2008-06-05, 08:51
There are no plans to make a version of LazySearch for the Controller?

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 09:05
There are no plans to make a version of LazySearch for the Controller?

Given the lack of a keypad on the Controller it would have to work completely differently.

Paul Webster
2008-06-05, 09:20
Looks somewhat similar to "Dasher" that was mentioned a couple of times.
I referred back to earlier thread over here
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46847&highlight=dasher

cliveb
2008-06-05, 10:28
Is there any documentation on how to do that?
Complete documentation is in the wiki (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Custom_Browse_plugin).

Apart from that, you might find the latter part of this thread useful: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44671 (Custom Browse first gets mentioned in post #5)

andynormancx
2008-06-05, 10:57
Complete documentation is in the wiki (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Custom_Browse_plugin).

Apart from that, you might find the latter part of this thread useful: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44671 (Custom Browse first gets mentioned in post #5)
I've read all the Custom Browse docs that you've linked before and never managed to get it to do anything useful.

Looking at the thread you linked Erland talks about enabling a "Artists by letter" menu, which my install of Custom Browse doesn't have. I guess I need to go and do some more reading :(

Edit: did some more reading, managed to find a whole section of the custom browse settings that I hadn't seen before, I now have artists by letter working

hickinbottoms
2008-06-05, 11:22
That is how Lazy Search works; the format currently in the database is specialised for the numeric keypad on the remotes but the principle is the same whatever number of keys you've got. The trick is building a database that allows that search to happen quickly.

I've looked at the Controller and had a few ideas for a Lazy Search equivalent, but I've not had the time to put any of them to code yet, I'm afraid.

This does seem like a nice interface idea - it would be interesting to try. It comes down to licensing, though, as it's not free.

Stuart

Michael Herger wrote:

Wouldn't the trick be to scan the names in the library and produce a look-up table to quickly find the alternatives at each step, a bit like a sat-nav system does.



That is what the LazySearch plugin does, isn't it?