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Andy8421
2008-06-02, 13:18
Sean and the Slim team, if you are spending any time thinking about a Duet V2, can I request a switchable 12v output so that an amplifier can be switched on and off by the Duet?

The Duet is a great product for tucking away, but if the amp is also concealed, there is no easy way to power the amp on and off. Many decent amps have a 12v control input - any chance of an output to drive them with?

Thanks for the attention.

Andy.

jsprag
2008-06-02, 15:11
This would solve your problem right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Clapper-Sound-Activated-Switch-Each/dp/B0000CGKLR

Ready to listen to music? Clap twice and your amplifier comes on.

Done listening? Clap two more times and the amp goes off!

Just be careful you don't listen to any music that contains clapping (i.e. Queen's "We Will Rock You")...

znelbok
2008-06-02, 20:02
While we are at it...

Can you guys build one with an integrated amp, 20-30 watts or so. I too want to hide all mine away for zoning and a combined unit would be excellent.

What amps have you seen that would match the Duet for concealed placement

Mick

pfarrell
2008-06-02, 20:14
znelbok wrote:
> Can you guys build one with an integrated amp, 20-30 watts or so. I
> too want to hide all mine away for zoning and a combined unit would be
> excellent.

Use powered speakers. no need for an amp.

When the speaker designer and the amp designer can build to each other's
strengths, you can get very good sound for not much money. Or amazing
sound for reasonable money. Then, there are Meridian's powered speakers,
which cost amazing money.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

cliveb
2008-06-03, 00:47
The Duet is a great product for tucking away, but if the amp is also concealed, there is no easy way to power the amp on and off. Many decent amps have a 12v control input - any chance of an output to drive them with?
If you're prepared to do a bit of DIY and feel confident with a soldering iron, it's possible to get a DC output of about 8.2V from the Duet as is. It involves installing a phototransistor (plus a few associated components) to detect when the LED comes on. My notes about doing this are here: http://www.delback.co.uk/squeezebox/sbr_signal.html.

jaffacake
2008-06-03, 01:02
znelbok wrote:
> Can you guys build one with an integrated amp, 20-30 watts or so. I
> too want to hide all mine away for zoning and a combined unit would be
> excellent.

Use powered speakers. no need for an amp.

When the speaker designer and the amp designer can build to each other's
strengths, you can get very good sound for not much money. Or amazing
sound for reasonable money. Then, there are Meridian's powered speakers,
which cost amazing money.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

Whilst there may be a few different kinds of powered speakers on the market, it's a somewhat limited choice when comparing with standard loudspeakers.

Powered speakers need an extra power supply, are always on etc. An integrated amplifier is highly convenient.

mvalera
2008-06-03, 10:11
We're not interested in an integrated amp. The $350+ saved when buying a Duet over the least expensive Sonos one room solution (zp80 plus cr100) buys you a much better amp than the one in the even more expensive ZP100. It also allows you to choose the one you want, instead of being locked into an integrated amp that we would choose.

It's a much more flexible solution.

Mike

pfarrell
2008-06-03, 10:18
mvalera wrote:
> We're not interested in an integrated amp. The $350+ saved when buying a
> Duet over the least expensive Sonos one room solution buys you a _much_
> better amp. It also allows you to choose the one you want.

Take that #350+, add it to the $300+ that you would spend for modest
speakers, and you have $650++ for some nice powered speakers.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

mvalera
2008-06-03, 10:57
Mmmmm... like maybe these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Reveal5A/

Mike

pfarrell
2008-06-03, 11:18
mvalera wrote:
> Mmmmm... like maybe these:
>
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Reveal5A/

You will notice that they (and other websites) have over 100 powered
speakers, with prices running from $100 a pair to well into five figures.

I've got a pair of Mackie HR824 (about $1100 for a pair) and love the
sound. May be a bit too accurate for some, they are really for studios
where accuracy is important. I have heard the ADAM's (~$4k) which sound
amazing.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

Phil Leigh
2008-06-03, 12:17
Powered speakers need an extra power supply, are always on etc. An integrated amplifier is highly convenient.

Many active/powered speakers have signal sensing/auto-off.
Also not sure what you mean by "extra power supply"?
the amp (wherever it is located) will need a suitably powerful PSU.

mvalera
2008-06-03, 13:07
Ya I kind of missed that...

We're not talking computer speakers here . I've never seen a powered monitor with an external power supply. Even the reasonably priced Audioengine A5's (great powered speakers) I use at work have an internal PS.

Mike

pfarrell
2008-06-03, 14:27
mvalera wrote:
> We're not talking computer speakers here . I've never seen a powered
> monitor with an external power supply. Even the reasonably priced
> Audioengine A5's (great powered speakers) I use at work have an
> internal PS.

Most powered speakers aimed at the recording studio market have IEC
plugs. Even my 15+ year old AR Powered Partners take 120V ac directly
from the wall.

And all of them have good auto-power up/down.

It might be good to check when you look at them, but I left my Mackies
on for five years or so.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

Andy8421
2008-06-03, 14:50
Thanks to all. I hadn't appreciated that powered speakers had auto sensing on / off. That will answer my problem.

Andy.

znelbok
2008-06-03, 17:00
How many of these powered speakers are in-ceiling or in-wall?

The Jive is small enough to hide in a closet and so would an amp to match. I have power points in all closets ready for a system like this, but I don't/cant use box speakers.

An integrated amp should only be an option, Jive with amp, Jive without. Alternatively, a power amp that connects to the Jive to make it look like a single unit.

Mick

znelbok
2008-06-03, 17:06
We're not interested in an integrated amp. The $350+ saved when buying a Duet over the least expensive Sonos one room solution (zp80 plus cr100) buys you a much better amp than the one in the even more expensive ZP100. It also allows you to choose the one you want, instead of being locked into an integrated amp that we would choose.

It's a much more flexible solution.

Mike

What amp do you see as being suitable for installation in a remote location where is will never be seen. From my searching there is nothing on the market that is suitable as a remote power amp. It wold appear that most think that the Jive will be connected to an AVR or other standard amp. The Jive with its headless design is perfect for whole house audio and thus is installed in a discrete location with the amp.

Mick

aubuti
2008-06-03, 20:39
What amp do you see as being suitable for installation in a remote location where is will never be seen. From my searching there is nothing on the market that is suitable as a remote power amp. It wold appear that most think that the Jive will be connected to an AVR or other standard amp. The Jive with its headless design is perfect for whole house audio and thus is installed in a discrete location with the amp.

Mick
What about a Parasound Zamp (http://www.parasound.com/zcustom/zampv3.php), or at the lower end of the market, one (or more) of the AudioSource line (Amp 100 (http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-Amp-100-2-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6) or Amp 200 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006VHZHO/ref=pd_cp_e_2?pf_rd_p=250314601&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00026BQJ6&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0EC8WN29FR2K38KNXEK2))? Both have auto-sensing power. I have an Amp 100 in my kitchen system, hidden away on the top shelf of the pantry with an SB Receiver. A lot of other folks like the Sonic T-Amp, which doesn't have auto-sensing power, but draws so little wattage that it doesn't much matter.

jaffacake
2008-06-04, 00:15
Many active/powered speakers have signal sensing/auto-off.
Also not sure what you mean by "extra power supply"?
the amp (wherever it is located) will need a suitably powerful PSU.

My point was that powered speakers require just that...power. This is additional to the power supply required for the SBR...2 plugs instead of one. With US size plugs I guess this isn't a major issue, but UK plugs are pretty big and less is more for me when it comes to power supplies.

Additionally, many regions have some extensive building codes. Integrating mains powered speakers isn't an easy task, especially if you want to hide the wires in walls. In the UK this is pretty much illegal without having the work certified by a qualified electrician - for reference, we can't even legally change a light fitting here without certification.

So if, for example, I wanted to connect a receiver to some powered speakers which were fitted in the wall/ceiling, I would have no end of legislative hurdles to clear before the installation was legal. A separate amplifier may be easier but can also add an extra volume control complicating things again. Likewise, it would be 2 appliances trying to draw power on standby instead of 1. Even with an auto on/off for the speakers, there is still going to be a few watts going through them which I don't feel is ideal for the Green homes of the future.

Hence an integrated amplifier, that powers off with the SBR, I feel is a good suggestion from the guy who suggested it and would offer people a good additional option.

autopilot
2008-06-04, 07:15
I use one of these with the SBr in my bedroom - http://www.desktopaudio.co.uk/trendsta10.1.html

It's tiny and, while it's not massively powered, sounds absolutely astonishing for the money. Powering a pair of decent Kef's at reasonable volumes. Sounds much better than the Denon CD Receiver i was using which was 5 times more expensive. Just another option and using virtually no power when not in use, so standby is is pretty irrelevant anyway. For the next room i think i will go with A5's.

dearing
2008-06-04, 08:08
If you really want a self-contained unit with Amp,, you could consider the Dell/Rio receiver with SlimRio running. It acts like a slimp3 with a built-in amp powerful enough to run bookshelf speakers well. Not really a logitech product, but they can be gotten quite cheaply on eBay.

lanierb
2008-06-04, 10:39
Sean and the Slim team, if you are spending any time thinking about a Duet V2, can I request a switchable 12v output so that an amplifier can be switched on and off by the Duet?

The Duet is a great product for tucking away, but if the amp is also concealed, there is no easy way to power the amp on and off. Many decent amps have a 12v control input - any chance of an output to drive them with?

Thanks for the attention.

Andy.

It seems like someone should make a product that senses the input signal and turns on the amp as this would be useful to a lot of people. However, I looked around and couldn't find anything.

My only suggestion is that you could use a class D amp and leave it on all the time. They use very little power and produce no heat when there is no signal, so it's not a waste or anything, and it would probably still take 20+ years to wear out, by which time you wouldn't likely own it anymore. They are also very small in size, reasonably priced, and the new technologies (UCD etc) are loved by the audiophiles.

Edit: In addition, class D is environmentally friendly because it is several times more efficient than A/B.

znelbok
2008-06-04, 17:47
This was posted in an other thread

I appears to be built specifically for the Jive

http://www.sumoh.com/info.html

Has auto-detect to tun it on, and power port to connect the jive to. Just cant get it here yet.

Mick

jamiet
2008-06-11, 22:22
Hi znelbok,

There's a sort of local solution, but it's not as pretty as the Sumoh solution. Have a look here: http://www.aaronhifi.com/product.php?prod_id=51

marco@yway.nez
2008-09-25, 15:20
We're not interested in an integrated amp. The $350+ saved when buying a Duet over the least expensive Sonos one room solution (zp80 plus cr100) buys you a much better amp than the one in the even more expensive ZP100. It also allows you to choose the one you want, instead of being locked into an integrated amp that we would choose.

It's a much more flexible solution.

Mike

agree... I bought the duet because I wanted a device i plug to my amp... no more no less. So just keep doing what you guys know best. some companies master speakers, others master amps, apple builds Ipods (and docking stations for it :-) so if you want an all inclusive squeezebox, buy a Ghetto Blaster with a 1TB hard drive built in.

peter
2008-09-26, 10:40
marco (AT) yway (DOT) nez wrote:
> mvalera;308201 Wrote:
>
>> We're not interested in an integrated amp. The $350+ saved when buying a
>> Duet over the least expensive Sonos one room solution (zp80 plus cr100)
>> buys you a _much_ better amp than the one in the even more expensive
>> ZP100. It also allows you to choose the one you want, instead of being
>> locked into an integrated amp that we would choose.
>>
>> It's a much more flexible solution.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> agree... I bought the duet because I wanted a device i plug to my
> amp... no more no less. So just keep doing what you guys know best.
> some companies master speakers, others master amps, apple builds Ipods
> (and docking stations for it :-) so if you want an all inclusive
> squeezebox, buy a Ghetto Blaster with a 1TB hard drive built in.
>

It's perfectly feasible to add an 'optional' amp (of T-Amp quality),
that can be 'bypassed' if you want to use a different (better) amp. I
have 4 SB3's and a Duet and I would prefer to have a small internal amp
in some of them, makes for a much cleaner solution (less wires, less
power adapters, less hassle). Sonos got that right (I don't know if you
can bypass theirs, though).

Regards,
Peter

chinablues
2008-09-27, 06:14
marco (AT) yway (DOT) nez wrote:[color=blue]

It's perfectly feasible to add an 'optional' amp (of T-Amp quality),
that can be 'bypassed' if you want to use a different (better) amp. I
have 4 SB3's and a Duet and I would prefer to have a small internal amp
in some of them, makes for a much cleaner solution (less wires, less
power adapters, less hassle). Sonos got that right (I don't know if you
can bypass theirs, though).

Regards,
Peter

I have a Duet sitting on top of a standard sized Denon amp. Works fine but looks ugly for bedroom ceiling speakers. I searched various places in the UK & Singapore for a 'duet sized' amp. No joy. I have a colleague about to spend a lot of money on a wireless system. He will probably go Sonos because as Peter mentioned, they got that right. For some folks it's the 'form factor', not the sound. I don't need a built in amp for the Duet, but Logitech could surely source a 'Duet sized' amp of acceptable performance in China.. Add this to the catalog for folks that want a simple Duo Duet package.

Dan

morris_minor
2008-09-27, 12:02
Sumoh have been promising international shipping on this for quite a time:

http://www.sumoh.com/

peter
2008-09-27, 13:18
morris_minor wrote:
> Sumoh have been promising international shipping on this for quite a
> time:
>
> http://www.sumoh.com/
>

Looks promising!

Regards,
Peter

chinablues
2008-09-28, 21:48
Slightly off topic, but noticed that Denon have a range of networked components including Boom look-a-like. Wireless/wired. FLAC too. Interesting that Denon now seem to be in the speaker business. Perhaps meeting a need for a 'packaged' system rather than a set of components.

Dan

robert6920
2009-10-29, 00:25
morris_minor wrote:
> Sumoh have been promising international shipping on this for quite a
> time:
>
> http://www.sumoh.com/
>

Looks promising!

Regards,
Peter

Ordered one the other day (not the easiest thing as they aren't selling on the web yet) and received an email that it's been despatched. Am waiting for An Post to deliver...... Then will set up in the bedroom, running a Receiver and Proficient in ceiling speakers. Excitedly yours, Robert

musicom
2009-10-30, 02:18
[QUOTE=can I request a switchable 12v output so that an amplifier can be switched on and off by the Duet?[/QUOTE]

I simply leave my amps on all of the time. Have had success for over 20 years with Dynaco, Hafler, Carver, Soundstream and Harman/Kardon products way before using Squeezeboxes and only shut them down for long vacations. I figure I spend about $12 per year in extra electric charges.