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View Full Version : MusicIP causes <No Album> to become Miscellaneous



Philip Meyer
2008-06-01, 00:15
Since I've included MusicIP in SqueezeCenter, most songs that have no ALBUM tag are coming up as "Miscellaneous". I can see that this is how they are displayed in the MusicIP library; it hasn't changed tags in my source files.

I don't like that. I now have 259 "Miscellaneous" albums, instead on one "No Album" when I browse albums, and I now have several (at least 10) "Miscellaneous" albums by Tori Amos (one for each CD single I've ripped), whereas I used to have one "No Album".

I can't see any options in MusicIP to turn off this effect. Anyone know of a work around?

Phil

Phil Leigh
2008-06-01, 00:33
I named all my singles so they look like (mini) albums to get round this.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-01, 00:50
>I named all my singles so they look like (mini) albums to get round
>this.
I went to great lengths to remove ALBUM tags for singles, as I don't rip the duplicate tracks (i.e. keep the bonus tracks as extras), so they are not even full singles. I don't want to browse to Tori Amos and find 10 albums and an additional 10 miscellaneous, each with one or two songs.

I think the difference is <No Album> must be considered a Compilation album, and thus joins tracks from different folders into one <No Album>, whereas Miscellaneous isn't, and thus I get one per source folder.

If it's not possible to stop MusicIP changing No Album to Miscellaneous, I think it would be good for SC to treat Miscellaneous as <No Album> when reading data from MusicIP. Is that done in the plugin?

I'm trying to think if I have any albums really called "Miscellaneous"...

Phil

Phil Leigh
2008-06-01, 01:26
>I named all my singles so they look like (mini) albums to get round
>this.
I went to great lengths to remove ALBUM tags for singles, as I don't rip the duplicate tracks (i.e. keep the bonus tracks as extras), so they are not even full singles. I don't want to browse to Tori Amos and find 10 albums and an additional 10 miscellaneous, each with one or two songs.

I think the difference is <No Album> must be considered a Compilation album, and thus joins tracks from different folders into one <No Album>, whereas Miscellaneous isn't, and thus I get one per source folder.

If it's not possible to stop MusicIP changing No Album to Miscellaneous, I think it would be good for SC to treat Miscellaneous as <No Album> when reading data from MusicIP. Is that done in the plugin?

I'm trying to think if I have any albums really called "Miscellaneous"...

Phil


Where I had several singles by the same artist I gave them the same artist and album tag so they "clump together" in SC. I know this isn't a hi-tech solution... :o)

Philip Meyer
2008-06-01, 02:35
>Where I had several singles by the same artist I gave them the same
>artist and album tag so they "clump together" in SC. I know this isn't
>a hi-tech solution... :o)

That's effectively what I had - several singles by Tori Amos, clumped together because they have ALBUM="" and appear as "No Album".

I think if I were to give each song an album tag, eg. ALBUM="Singles", I'd end up with several albums by that artist called Singles, like MusicIP has done.

Phil Leigh
2008-06-01, 07:40
>Where I had several singles by the same artist I gave them the same
>artist and album tag so they "clump together" in SC. I know this isn't
>a hi-tech solution... :o)

That's effectively what I had - several singles by Tori Amos, clumped together because they have ALBUM="" and appear as "No Album".

I think if I were to give each song an album tag, eg. ALBUM="Singles", I'd end up with several albums by that artist called Singles, like MusicIP has done.

That's exactly what I have...several fictitious albums called "Singles" by different artists

whicken
2008-06-01, 08:54
This isn't an immediate solution, but we've added a keyword to the filtering logic called "missingalbum" (same for genre, artist, and name) as of version 1.9. This would in principle allow SC to query the API on the miscellaneous case to determine if they were actually miscellaneous, or just defaulted to that value.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-03, 14:36
>I can't see any options in MusicIP to turn off this effect. Anyone know of a work around?
>
I've patched the MusicIP plugin to avoid this issue, until a fix is available in MusicIP.

The SqueezeCenter plugin reads the tags from MusicIP tracks and was applying them to the SqueezeCenter library using updateOrCreate() - which updated the tags if they already existed, or created a new song item in the database.

MusicIP assumes that if an album or genre tag is blank, the name should be "Miscellaneous". A blank artist tag becomes "Various Artists" (which is also a very bad/wrong thing to do). Blank track names become "Track n".

I've changed the code so that it only sets the album, artist and genre tags if they are not dummy values in MusicIP. I didn't bother avoiding a rename of the track title (I haven't got many).

For anyone interested, the change was simple:

In sub processSong:

$attributes{'ALBUM'} = $songInfo{'album'} if $songInfo{'album'} && $songInfo{'album'} ne 'Miscellaneous';
$attributes{'TITLE'} = $songInfo{'name'} if $songInfo{'name'};
$attributes{'ARTIST'} = $songInfo{'artist'} if $songInfo{'artist'} && $songInfo{'artist'} ne 'Various Artists';
$attributes{'GENRE'} = $songInfo{'genre'} if $songInfo{'genre'} && $songInfo{'genre'} ne 'Miscellaneous';

It seems to work for me following a full rescan of my SC library. I now have a single "No Album" album again, and not hundreds of miscellaneous albums.

I should do a better patch for the MusicIP plugin, such that if the music file is already in the SC library, it will only set the mixable flag for the song, artist, album and genre. If the file doesn't exist in the library, then it could read the tags from MusicIP and add them to the SC library. Generally, I don't ever want to take any tags from MusicIP, because it would probably be wrong and cause inconsistencies in the music library (i.e. not follow the same rules for compilations, album artists, artist sort, etc).

So essentially, I think it should not take tags from MusicIP, just find tracks that are mixable.

I've disabled automatic MusicIP rescan. I will always rescan SqueezeCenter to load new music. Eventually, when I load new music into MusicIP, a rescan in SC will find the new tracks as mixable.


Phil

schiegl
2008-06-03, 16:12
For anyone interested, the change was simple:

In sub processSong:

$attributes{'ALBUM'} = $songInfo{'album'} if $songInfo{'album'} && $songInfo{'album'} ne 'Miscellaneous';
$attributes{'TITLE'} = $songInfo{'name'} if $songInfo{'name'};
$attributes{'ARTIST'} = $songInfo{'artist'} if $songInfo{'artist'} && $songInfo{'artist'} ne 'Various Artists';
$attributes{'GENRE'} = $songInfo{'genre'} if $songInfo{'genre'} && $songInfo{'genre'} ne 'Miscellaneous';

It seems to work for me following a full rescan of my SC library. I now have a single "No Album" album again, and not hundreds of miscellaneous albums.

Phil

nice patch - the same one i'm running :-)



Generally, I don't ever want to take any tags from MusicIP, because it would probably be wrong and cause inconsistencies in the music library (i.e. not follow the same rules for compilations, album artists, artist sort, etc).

So essentially, I think it should not take tags from MusicIP, just find tracks that are mixable.
Phil

I fully agree!

it's just a mess if you update tags but don't want to touch the file modification time (keep the "New Music" function). You end up doing a wipe&scan for both databases: MIP(*) and SC.
IMO it's great SC uses 3rd-party sources (i.e. MIP for mixable tracks, MIP/iTunes/Tracktat-Plugin for rating, lyrics for lyrics, ...) to enrich its DB/Frontend with additional informations, but it should not hand over the authority for attributes it is able to get itself.

kind regards,
Markus

(*) okay, you could manually change the MIP-DB entries using MusicMagicMixer, but do you really want to this?

adrianr
2008-06-04, 03:38
I also totally agree with Philip. Running MusicIP headless on my server (no ability to run the GUI) gives me no way to fix the incorrect tagging data it has obtained from the web.

MusicIP's mixing is very interesting to me, but not if it ruins my normal music browsing process (and all the hours manually fixing tags)!.

For example, fans of Vinicius Cantuaria will no that the usual online databases give a variety of different corruptions of his name for different albums!

I don't want to sound negative; keep up the great work. It just needs a little tweaking to suit me:-)

mherger
2008-06-04, 06:26
> I also totally agree with Philip. Running MusicIP headless on my server
> (no ability to run the GUI) gives me no way to fix the incorrect
> tagging data it has obtained from the web.

What data? My MIP _never_ does change anything. It indexes my collection. That's it.

--

Michael

Philip Meyer
2008-06-04, 11:55
>What data? My MIP _never_ does change anything. It indexes my collection. That's it.
I believe he's saying that MusicIP metadata overrides any tags that SqueezeCenter stores in its library. As he can't edit tags in MusicIP headless, and can't access MusicIP GUI, he has to edit the tags in the source files, then refresh MusicIP library, then rescan in SqueezeCenter.

I'm happy now I hacked the MusicIP plugin to ignore artist, album and genre tags. I think it is incorrect for SqueezeCenter to import tag data from MusicIP; I can't see much of a reason for it to do that. MusicIP only works if it is on the same server, and therefore would be set up to access the same music files on the same path. SqueezeCenter understands more tags than MusicIP, so SqueezeCenter should scan the source files.

SqueezeCenter MusicIP plugin should just read the mixable status for enabled tracks.

I think there should at least be an option in the MusicIP plugin to "read MusicIP tags".

adrianr
2008-06-04, 14:43
Thanks Philip, that was what I was trying to say, but obviously not clearly enough!

Michael, you are totally correct; MusicIP has not changed my tags (I believe that would only be the result of using the GUI to 'fix tags'). When I saw the changes to my Artist list from the controller I did have a momentary panic, but checking the file tags showed me that nothing had changed. However, the MIP index appears to ignore my tag data and references their own database of musical fingerprint-artist.

Like Philip, I just want the benefit of MusicIP to produce playlists, yet still browse my collection via the tags I know and spent many hours correcting. As things stand now, for me, if I want to use MusicIP I have to live with situations such as one artist showing up three times with different spellings.

whicken
2008-06-07, 06:44
>I can't see any options in MusicIP to turn off this effect. Anyone know of a work around?
>
I've patched the MusicIP plugin to avoid this issue, until a fix is available in MusicIP.

MusicIP assumes that if an album or genre tag is blank, the name should be "Miscellaneous". A blank artist tag becomes "Various Artists" (which is also a very bad/wrong thing to do). Blank track names become "Track n".

...

I should do a better patch for the MusicIP plugin, such that if the music file is already in the SC library, it will only set the mixable flag for the song, artist, album and genre. If the file doesn't exist in the library, then it could read the tags from MusicIP and add them to the SC library. Generally, I don't ever want to take any tags from MusicIP, because it would probably be wrong and cause inconsistencies in the music library (i.e. not follow the same rules for compilations, album artists, artist sort, etc).

So essentially, I think it should not take tags from MusicIP, just find tracks that are mixable.


As of MusicIP Mixer 1.9 beta 5 (released yesterday), the HTTP API will no longer send the default values for missing metadata (they still show up in the UI, but that shouldn't be an issue for SC). The beta is only available for Windows at the moment, but we will be doing a linux release in the future.

Anyways, if someone could test the Windows version to make sure it's giving correct results with SC, that would be fantastic.

Also - note that the metadata mixer sends over the API is only the metadata from the files. We do not use the "suggested tag fixes" from MusicDNS unless a user specifically applies those to their files. So any other issues reported here about strange metadata are probably likely to issues such as album artist not being consistent with track artist in the file. Those are things you might want to fix in your files independent of the mixer. If someone has concrete examples, or info to the contrary, I'd be happy to investigate to make sure things are working as smoothly as possible.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-07, 10:42
>As of MusicIP Mixer 1.9 beta 5 (released yesterday), the HTTP API will
>no longer send the default values for missing metadata (they still show
>up in the UI, but that shouldn't be an issue for SC). The beta is only
>available for Windows at the moment, but we will be doing a linux
>release in the future.
>
>Anyways, if someone could test the Windows version to make sure it's
>giving correct results with SC, that would be fantastic.
>
Hey, that's great. I downloaded and installed 1.9 beta 5 this morning, so I'll undo my change to the MusicIP plugin, and give it a go.

>So any other issues reported here about strange metadata are probably
>likely to issues such as album artist not being consistent with track
>artist in the file.
I didn't think that MusicIP understood Album Artist. Does it read TPE2 as Album Artist for Id3 tags? It would be nice if it understood TXXX ALBUMARTIST and TXXX ARTISTSORT instead/too. I saw that beta 5 reads ";" as dividers in artist tags - will it understand multiple tags (eg. artist and genre) as well as dividers, as this seems to used by many apps?

I also saw mention of a repeat flag in the API. Does that mean that the SC MusicIP plugin could make a playlist continue, rather than stop after n tracks? Is that only in the purchased version?

Phil

Philip Meyer
2008-06-07, 15:08
>>Anyways, if someone could test the Windows version to make sure it's
>>giving correct results with SC, that would be fantastic.
>>
>Hey, that's great. I downloaded and installed 1.9 beta 5 this morning, so I'll undo my change to the MusicIP plugin, and give it a go.
>
Unfortunately, it didn't seem to work. I reverted to the latest SVN version of the MusicIP plugin and triggered a full rescan of my SC music library, and now have hundreds of Miscellaneous albums again.

Has anyone else tried this yet?

BTW, a full rescan takes a long time now that I have MusicIP plugin enabled, irrespective of whether it does a full scan or new and changed files rescan. I'd prefer it if the plugin could just ask MusicIP about the new and changed files when it does a partial rescan. I also see no benefit in the plugin reading tags from MusicIP and setting them within SC library, as my SC library tags are completely fine as they are. I only need it to read the "is mixable" indicator for songs, and apply to artist, album and genre if necessary.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-08, 02:25
>BTW, a full rescan takes a long time now that I have MusicIP plugin enabled, irrespective of whether it does a full scan or new and changed files rescan. I'd prefer it if the plugin could just ask MusicIP about the new and changed files when it does a partial rescan. I also see no benefit in the plugin reading tags from MusicIP and setting them within SC library, as my SC library tags are completely fine as they are. I only need it to read the "is mixable" indicator for songs, and apply to artist, album and genre if necessary.

Also, I run MusicIP in headless mode. Having ripped a new album to disk, I refreshed songs within MusicIP GUI to analyse the new songs. I then went into SqueezeCenter and did a scan for new and changed songs. This took 29:40 to complete, mainly due to the MusicIP part doing a full rescan. SqueezeCenter found the new music and I could play it, but the new album and tracks were not mixable.

I believe this is because the cache version in the headless server was not refreshed.

Is it possible for the MusicIP plugin to:

1. Force a refresh of the cache if it is in headless mode before starting its scan.
2. Only read songs that are new or changed to make the scan a lot faster.

Phil

smc2911
2008-06-08, 03:17
I am also looking forward to the linux release of 1.9 to avoid the "Miscellaneous" problem tainting my tags. I have quite a few single tracks all with blank album names that are grouped in folders like "A", "B", "C", etc based on the name of the artist (makes them easier for me to find in the file system. What I have also found recently is that this has resulted in an large number of albums called "Miscellaneous" when I browse by album, one for each folder. Even if I have to live with "Miscellaneous" rather than "No Album" for the moment, I'd really like to have them grouped together if they have to appear in the albums listing.

smc2911
2008-06-08, 03:31
I should also add that I'd be keen to see MusicIP used for indexing and mixes not for tags. For example, I have one album by Psychic TV that is tagged as such, but always appears in MusicIP as Psychic T.V. despite multiple deletions of the library and length rescans of the entire collection.

thing-fish
2008-06-09, 06:43
The beta is only available for Windows at the moment, but we will be doing a linux release in the future.

Anyways, if someone could test the Windows version to make sure it's giving correct results with SC, that would be fantastic.

I'm in the MusicIP beta program and dutifully download and install them as they are released. However, while I do use a Windows version on my laptop occasionally, the real testing I can offer (especially w/SqueezeCenter integration) only happens once the Linux version finally comes out. Would love to help more!

bronnie
2008-06-10, 12:07
OK so now we indeed have 'no album' back instead of miscellaneous. However

- all 'no album' songs are grouped together under 'various artists - no album' (yes: I group compilation albums together under various artists) great.. very old irritating bug which apparently isnt solved yet: why not revert back various artists compilation albums grouping behaviour to just reading out the 'compilation album' flag in the mp3 file itself? Call me old fashioned but I hate it when machines start thinking for me instead of with me..

- little off topic but as I am spitting a bit already: I have many songs that are NOT related to an album at all: just singles and such, Now I'd really appreciate it if it would be made possible to browse there directly from the artist, instead of first going into a 'no album' or 'miscellaneous' option.. and THEN further onto the song itself. simply doesnt make sense from my point of view

Philip Meyer
2008-06-10, 13:19
>OK so now we indeed have 'no album' back instead of miscellaneous.
It didn't work for me - I still have many miscellaneous albums :(

>- all 'no album' songs are grouped together under 'various artists - no
>album'
>
If I don't use MusicIP, I get the same - all singles appear on a "No Album" album, which can be found in Browse Albums > No Album, or Browse Artist > Various Artists > No Album.

The songs by an individual artist also appear in Browse Artist > [Artist] > No Album, which is good.

>why
>not revert back various artists compilation albums grouping behaviour
>to just reading out the 'compilation album' flag in the mp3 file
>itself? Call me old fashioned but I hate it when machines start
>thinking for me instead of with me..
>
By default, albums that have multiple artists and no album artist are tagged as compilations. In my mind, that is the correct default action to take. "No Album" is currently not treated any differently, other than no album tag is stored as Album="No Album". I'm okay with that, as the songs appear both on the one "No Album" compilation, and as a subset "No Album" within the list of albums relating to an Artist.

You could try setting all "No Album" songs to have COMPILATION=0 to force "No Album" to not be listed under Various Artists. However, I think you may then end up with lots of "No Album" albums.

>- little off topic but as I am spitting a bit already: I have many
>songs that are NOT related to an album at all: just singles and such,
>Now I'd really appreciate it if it would be made possible to browse
>there directly from the artist, instead of first going into a 'no
>album' or 'miscellaneous' option.. and THEN further onto the song
>itself. simply doesnt make sense from my point of view
Not sure what you mean. How are you currently browsing to the songs? You should be able to go to Artist > [Artist name] > No Album, to see a list of singles by your chosen artist.

bronnie
2008-06-10, 14:53
Philip, that was a fast reply :) At the moment I worked around it by filling the album tag with... 'miscellaneous'..

I can see the logic in our reply, it just simply doesn't match my habit:

I generally have the habit of browsing by artist. I never ever browse per album first.. When doing so, it's annoying sometimes to have to browse though to the 'various artist' to figue out whether I have 'abandoned' songs (iow not attached to an album) by this artist as well. library is getting bigger through the years.. the minor irritation is based upon the fact that browsing to an artist takes me either clicking mouse or remote controle a few times.. then having to browse though a bogus 'album' entry (bogus as there is no album for a single song), before reaching the songs, simply is yet another.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-10, 17:25
>I generally have the habit of browsing by artist. I never ever browse
>per album first.
Me too. Browse Album list is too long. I usually browse by artist, genre or year, as the list is smaller, or play random stuff until something comes up that I fancy and then play an album from that.

>When doing so, it's annoying sometimes to have to
>browse though to the 'various artist' to figue out whether I have
>'abandoned' songs (iow not attached to an album) by this artist as
>well.
If you browse artist, and have songs by that artist that are not on an album, they will be in "No Album" within the list of albums by that artist. You don't need to navigate to Various Artists to hunt around for them.

brawny
2008-08-18, 19:19
Hi All,

Not to be alarmist, but...

I believe I may have an issue of genpuid actually deleting tags when analyzing my library.

I apologize if this is somewhat off-topic, however, it does match the subject line of the thread, as the symptom I see is that a number of my albums that were correctly tagged previously now have blank tags in the album, genre and artist tags. When viewed in SqueezeCenter, these blank tags are showing up as 'Miscellaneous' in the respective tag.

I believe this was caused by genpuid, based on how I've analyzed my library, following the wiki instructions here:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter#Option_1:_U sing_Genpuid

In particular, I used the 'archive' feature of genpuid to create ANALYSIS and FINGERPRINT tags.


genpuid [dnskey] -r -logex -m3lib=cache.m3lib -archive .


My guess is that along with writing these two tags specific to MusicIP, genpuid altered some other additional tags (ALBUM, GENRE, and possibly ARTIST as well). On some tracks only one of the tags was cleared - most often the ALBUM tag, but sometimes both ARTIST and GENRE or ALBUM and ARTIST - there doesn't appear to be any pattern.

My library is approx 20K FLAC with vorbis comments only.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar to this?

I've replied to an existing thread on the MusicIP forums to check with the folks there. The forum link is:
http://forums.musicip.com/index.php?showtopic=3661&st=0&gopid=15054&#entry15054

Brawny