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pippin
2008-06-15, 16:56
if it's not in active duty I'd set the priority to high and let it run its course. Heh, I remember doing the analysis on a PII-350! Now THAT was slow!

It is in active duty. It's my server and runs quite a bit of other stuff that is not always active but that I want to be responsive.
Also, I thought I can only set the priority on Windows? This is ubuntu

lork
2008-06-15, 17:22
Pippin-

Two thoughts:
- why scan your audio books? The are probably very long, unrecognized (because few, if any, others will scan books), and hence will take ages to process... and it seems unlikely you're going to want a music mix with audio books in it (unless I am very confused about the point of MIP). Ditto for DVD rips, etc- if it's not a song, why analyze it? If you have much of this stuff, it is less surprising that the process is taking ages (though I would expect it to take only 80% of the total play time of the files, per the MIP website... and yours is taking longer, so there may be something else slowing you up as well). Maybe try removing those files from the path to be processed?

- If your Mac did 25% of these files in a day, 1. something must be wrong on your other system (unless your Mac is 100's of times faster...) and 2. why not just process it all via the Mac, then move it over to the server? I'm actually doing that, though for reasons other than speed. That way you'd be done in days instead of months...

pippin
2008-06-15, 17:40
Pippin-

Two thoughts:
- why scan your audio books? The are probably very long, unrecognized (because few, if any, others will scan books), and hence will take ages to process... and it seems unlikely you're going to want a music mix with audio books in it (unless I am very confused about the point of MIP). Ditto for DVD rips, etc- if it's not a song, why analyze it? If you have much of this stuff, it is less surprising that the process is taking ages (though I would expect it to take only 80% of the total play time of the files, per the MIP website... and yours is taking longer, so there may be something else slowing you up as well). Maybe try removing those files from the path to be processed?

- If your Mac did 25% of these files in a day, 1. something must be wrong on your other system (unless your Mac is 100's of times faster...) and 2. why not just process it all via the Mac, then move it over to the server? I'm actually doing that, though for reasons other than speed. That way you'd be done in days instead of months...

But then I'd had to bother on how to set this up.

Also scanning my whole lib on the mac is not an option since the mac does not have a big enough HD to hold it - it's a MBA and has only 80GB. I could transfer it back and forth but that's probably hours of work - I don't want to spend that. Easier to let my server run it in the background for a few weeks. I'm not in a hurry about MIP. Also, my Mac was probably especially fast since it only held the simple part of my lib - I did not scan the Audio Books here since they are in a different folder.

Removing my files is not an option since then I would have to build all my path related indexes anew (e.g. in iTunes). I don't know how to exclude a subpath from scanning.

I just report this here for information since I started to do this two weeks ago and i think somebody trying to do this too could be interested.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-16, 00:48
I consider the SC music library as my master library. At the moment, it tries to read every song from MusicIP, and merge the MusicIP data into the SC library.

When I do a rescan for new and changed files, I would prefer it if it only requested the mixable state for each file that is new or changed. I'm sure the MIP API supports that.

lork
2008-06-16, 04:34
Hello-

I can get MIP to work (& create mixes), but every time I restart my server I have to go though the MIP "add tracks" routine- it loses all my info each time. Once I do that, it works... I can make a mix even without rescanning from SC (nb: my library doesn't change between reboots).

MIP will, after reboot, show that is has 0 tracks via the :10002 interface, while SC still shows the "m" next to everything. Clicking the "m" generates an empty playlist. Trying the "create a test playlist" option from the localhost:10002 MIP interface generates a blank page, after which I can no longer connect to 10002. If, after a fresh reboot, I then clear the chache via localhost:10002/api/flush (to be safe; may not be required since it shows zero to start, and other settings (mix track #, etc) are lost too), then add tracks in MIP, everything works.

Seems the MIP cache is getting cleared every time I reboot? Any ideas on how to fix this?

Thanks!

PS: I have installed MIP headless on Ubuntu, and separately analyzed my library & archived the analysis to tags, then moved the files to the Ubuntu machine. Also set up SC to use MIP per the instructions in the (excellent- thanks egd!) Wiki (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter). For what it's worth, though I suspect this may be immaterial, I have set my "playlists" path in SC or be /home/a2/Playlists... not that I have any, but maybe it matters. The Music folder in SC basic setting is left blank.

egd
2008-06-16, 06:07
Seems the MIP cache is getting cleared every time I reboot? Any ideas on how to fix this?

Can you open a terminal window, change to your MusicIP directory, run "cat mmm.ini" and paste the contents in a response.

Bascially the cache= line should point to a filename. The file is ordinarily stored in /home/<username>/.MusicMagic/ and is by default called default.m3lib.

If your cache= line is empty change it to cache=default.m3lib and let me know if that helps.

trkster
2008-06-16, 07:39
[QUOTE=lork;312454]Hello-

I can get MIP to work (& create mixes), but every time I restart my server I have to go though the MIP "add tracks" routine- it loses all my info each time. Once I do that, it works... I can make a mix even without rescanning from SC (nb: my library doesn't change between reboots).

Same problem as described by Lork, but I'm running headless on Windows XP Pro. Looking for answers also.

lork
2008-06-16, 13:00
Hey, egd-

Thanks for the additional help; the ability to mix (sans reboot) is already great!

I used the toolbar "search" function to look for "default.m3lib" in a2 and file system, and it was not found anywhere. Could n ot spot it by eye anywhere in the MusicIP folder/subfolders.



a2@a2:~/MusicIP$ cat mmm.ini
cat: mmm.ini: No such file or directory
a2@a2:~/MusicIP$ cd MusicMagicMixer
a2@a2:~/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer$ cat mmm.ini
[mix]
mixsize=10 tracks
restrict=3 tracks
style=20
variety=0
seed=1
[server]
proxy=0
host=
proxyport=
authentication=
user=
password=
[services]
key=xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxxx
cache=
port=10002
tivo=1
upnp=0
api=1
readonly=0
cpu=0
a2@a2:~/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer$


The xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxxx is where my key is (dashes included in my key).

Changed the line you said, rebooted, same problem. Search also did not turn up default.m3lib

Here's the changed file, in case it helps:


[mix]
mixsize=10 tracks
restrict=3 tracks
style=20
variety=0
seed=1
[server]
proxy=0
host=
proxyport=
authentication=
user=
password=
[services]
key=xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxxx
cache=default.m3lib
port=10002
tivo=1
upnp=0
api=1
readonly=0
cpu=0

egd
2008-06-16, 13:30
I used the toolbar "search" function to look for "default.m3lib" in a2 and file system, and it was not found anywhere. Could not spot it by eye anywhere in the MusicIP folder/subfolders. It is ordinarily written to /home/<username>/.MusicMagic (note the period before MusicIP [i.e. it is a hidden folder]), which may explain why you couldn't find it with the search tool.

Perhaps you could try explicitly dictating where the cache file should be written/ stored. My mmm.ini (on my NAS) is as follows [as you can see I've dictated that the library should be in a different folder]:


[mix]
mixsize=35 tracks
restrict=25 tracks
style=180
variety=1
seed=1
[server]
proxy=0
host=
proxyport=0
authentication=0
user=
password=
[services]
key=
cache=/raid/data/module/MusicIP/default.m3lib
port=10002
tivo=0
upnp=0
api=1
readonly=0
refresh=15

and on my Ubuntu desktop, it's as follows:
[mix]
mixsize=40 tracks
restrict=25 tracks
style=25
variety=0
seed=1
[server]
proxy=0
host=
proxyport=
authentication=
user=
password=
[services]
key=
cache=default.m3lib
port=10002
tivo=0
upnp=0
api=1
readonly=0
cpu=0On my Ubuntu desktop default.m3lib is located at /home/egd/.MusicMagic/default.m3lib, which as mentioned above, would be it's default location.

Out of curiosity, you're not having to do a rescan in SC everytime, right?

lork
2008-06-16, 13:57
Tried navigating to .MusicMagic from the terminal window, & got there, but the "dir" command showed nothing.

I am not rescanning SC each time- it seems fine; just have to rebuild the MIP cache (if that's what "add tracks" is doing). Of course, SC won't mix unless I've redone the "add tracks", but it does show the "m"'s on the files.

I changed the path for the cache in mmm.ini:
cache=/home/a2/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer/default.m3lib

but it makes no difference and no (visible) file is created there.

Nb: mmm.ini file I'm editing is in /home/a2/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer/mmm.ini ... if this is the wrong file (maybe it has a copy somewhere else?) then maybe my command isn't being seen.

Thanks again!

egd
2008-06-17, 02:57
Tried navigating to .MusicMagic from the terminal window, & got there, but the "dir" command showed nothing. Your cache file has got to be in ~/.MusicMagic unless you're pointing it elsewhere in mmm.ini. By "dir" I presume you're referring to ls? Try ls -la and see if it returns anything


Nb: mmm.ini file I'm editing is in /home/a2/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer/mmm.ini ... if this is the wrong file (maybe it has a copy somewhere else?) then maybe my command isn't being seen. By default MiP will look for mmm.ini in /home/<user>/.MusicMagic. Try copying mmm.ini to ~/.MusicMagic/ and restarting MiP & SC to see if that makes a difference.

lork
2008-06-17, 04:06
Success!

I went to .MusicMagic, did ls -la, and it returned nothing beyond a "." and a ".." - I suspect these are directories?

copied mmm.ini to .MusicMagic using (from the /home/a2/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer directory)

sudo cp mmm.ini ~/.MusicMagic/

checked using ls -la, and it was now there.

Rebooted, added tracks, rebooted and localhost:10002 shows the tracks are still recognized as added... so the cache must have survived. In addition, default.m3lib has shown up in my /home/a2 directory (I may move it around by changing mmm.ini later). Previously it had never shown up anywhere I could find... so it may be that previously the cache was never written anywhere? I'm unclear how SC could have rescanned the tracks from MIP in that case, unless it accesses memory directly via MIP and so neither depends on the cache if using tracks added since reboot.

I also have no idea why mmm.ini was not in the right place; seems odd.

Many thanks! Already MIP provided a very pleasant mix for the evening, with just a click- does appear to be worth the effort, and makes me all the more appreciative of the assistance. Now to read the man page on "dir"; thought I had that right...

egd
2008-06-17, 04:21
I went to .MusicMagic, did ls -la, and it returned nothing beyond a "." and a ".." - I suspect these are directories? Yes, current and previous/parent directory respectively.


copied mmm.ini to .MusicMagic using (from the /home/a2/MusicIP/MusicMagicMixer directory)

sudo cp mmm.ini ~/.MusicMagic/

checked using ls -la, and it was now there.No need to use sudo when copying files within your home directory, you can access them without having root access.


Rebooted, added tracks, rebooted and localhost:10002 shows the tracks are still recognized as added... so the cache must have survived. In addition, default.m3lib has shown up in my /home/a2 directory (I may move it around by changing mmm.ini later). Previously it had never shown up anywhere I could find... so it may be that previously the cache was never written anywhere?

I'm unclear how SC could have rescanned the tracks from MIP in that case, unless it accesses memory directly via MIP and so neither depends on the cache if using tracks added since reboot. No idea, however, I suspect it would have been written somewhere, perhaps to a temp folder...


I also have no idea why mmm.ini was not in the right place; seems odd. This is something I should have added to the Wiki - under Linux MiP will always look for mmm.ini in ~/.MusicMagic. There is no way around this other than using a symbolic link. As MiP doesn't have an install routine under Linux (MiP's fault, nothing to do with Linux) the files are just dumped from the tar file. MiP's documentation is all over the place - this is my biggest gripe with it, there's no central, logically organised repository to help you figure things out. It's all trial and error, but at least I think we've figured out the basics well enough to make it useful.

egd
2008-06-17, 04:29
Same problem as described by Lork, but I'm running headless on Windows XP Pro. Looking for answers also.

It's solved for MiP under Linux in post 261 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=312765&postcount=261) I've no idea where mmm.ini should go under Win - probably inside Local Settings\username\Application Data\MusicIP or something along those lines. It might pay to have a look at the guidance on Splicefly's website re configuring MiP under XP. Sorry, but I don't have an installation running under Windows.

lork
2008-06-17, 10:10
Hey, egd-

FWIW, I actually did have to use sudo, despite being in the same directory as the file. It refused to do a plain cp, so I sudo'd it and it worked. Maybe has to do with the permissions on .MusicMagic ?

Also just FYI, after I did the
http://localhost:10002/api/flush
command you suggest, MIP still shows that it sees all my music... I assume this flush should clear the cache & let me do a fresh "add tracks" from zero? If it's supposed to do something else, then it's probably working- it shows a blank screen with a "1" in the upper left corner. Everythign seems to be working fine, though.

Thanks again for all the help over the past few days!

bobkoure
2008-06-17, 12:31
I can get MIP to work (& create mixes), but every time I restart my server I have to go though the MIP "add tracks" routine
Read MusicIP Headless Mode on Vista (http://spicefly.com/content/view/59/32/) at Spicefly's site - scan down to the section labeled How to tie Headless with the GUI, and, well, follow the directions.

egd
2008-06-17, 13:19
FWIW, I actually did have to use sudo, despite being in the same directory as the file. It refused to do a plain cp, so I sudo'd it and it worked. Maybe has to do with the permissions on .MusicMagic ? It must be to do with permissions but I've no idea why, unless you unpacked the tar file as root also? Strange nevertheless.


Also just FYI, after I did the
http://localhost:10002/api/flush
command you suggest, MIP still shows that it sees all my music... I assume this flush should clear the cache & let me do a fresh "add tracks" from zero? If it's supposed to do something else, then it's probably working- it shows a blank screen with a "1" in the upper left corner. Everythign seems to be working fine, though. It's working. All it is intended to do is force MiP to write the cache out to file. The "1" means it was successful. To create a new cache/ database you enter the root folder of your music and click on Add Music.

egd
2008-06-17, 13:56
I consider the SC music library as my master library. At the moment, it tries to read every song from MusicIP, and merge the MusicIP data into the SC library.

When I do a rescan for new and changed files, I would prefer it if it only requested the mixable state for each file that is new or changed. I'm sure the MIP API supports that.

AFAIK it uses MiP to tell it what files are in the library, but still collects tag data from the files themselves. Your 2nd para would be to do with the inner workings of the MiP/ SC integration plugin, of which I have no knowledge.

Philip Meyer
2008-06-17, 14:37
>AFAIK it uses MiP to tell it what files are in the library, but still
>collects tag data from the files themselves. Your 2nd para would be to
>do with the inner workings of the MiP/ SC integration plugin, of which I
>have no knowledge.

Yes, I believe the scanner always asks MiP for a list of all songs in its library. It gets all tag info for those songs from MiP, and adds/updates the data in the SqueezeCenter DB. This takes a long time.

Instead, for each song the SC scanner decides to process, it could make a single call through the MiP web api to determine if a song in the SC library is mixable:

http://localhost:10002/api/status?song=<full path to song file>

eg:

http://localhost:10002/api/status?song=M:\Music\Phil%27s%20Music\Rips\Cardiga ns\[Singles]\My%20Favourite%20Game%20CD1\02%20-%20War.flac

This returns a 0 or 1 as the mixable status (followed by the path to the song).

The only problem I can see with this is if MiP DB analysis is completed after a scan has been done, SC may have stored that the song is not mixable. However, I think the scanner is called each time a song is played, so the would correct itself the first time the song is played after MiP has determined that the song is in fact mixable (or a full rescan is performed).

egd
2008-06-17, 17:18
Never mind the MusicIP scanner & how long that takes (never been a problem for me), the thing that bugs me is the SC scanner interface with Music IP when I'm scanning new or changed music. Here SC scanner zips through the music folders mostly correctly picking up changes and additions in double quick time, but then it does a FULL scan of Music IP import. THAT takes for ages. I'm scanning as I write this. Directory scan finished in 25 secs, Music IP import, currently at 2450 of 20593 having taken 4 mins 50 secs already!! Is there not a smart way for SC scanner to suck in only the changes/adds on Music IP?? I've run a little experiment - added a single album to my test library and then pointed genpuid to it, telling it to use the existing cache file, i.e. that located at /home/<username>/.MusicMagic/

The upshot is that genpuid quickly ascertained there was nothing to do but deal with the added album, did its analysis and updated the cache/ database. Pointing my browser to localhost:10002 and telling it to Refresh Songs demonstrated that the new tracks had been appended. Will run the 2nd part of the experiment shortly - have SC do a "look for changes" scan and see whether it still does a full blown rescan or not.

Edit: Have now completed the 2nd part of the experiment and it definitely looks to me like using the abovementioned approach enables SC to pick up only changes rather than rescan the entire library. I've attached a screenshot of the aftermath of the "Look for new and changed music" scan. Based on the times I'm almost certain that it didn't rescan the whole shooting match.

For anyone wondering, here's the syntax I used for Genpuid. Basically, open a terminal window, change to the root folder of the music library and unleash Genpuid like so:
genpuid <DNSKEY> -r -m3lib=/home/egd/.MusicMagic/default.m3lib -archive .

I'm off to the airport now and will be away for the next two weeks so won't be online often.

bobkoure
2008-06-18, 05:54
Thanks for taking the time to both figure that one out - and to post it!

I just got a copy of genpuid.
Getting a copy is a bit more involved than just downloading something; go here (http://musicbrainz.org/doc/genpuid) for a step-by-step at MusicBrainz.

There's also a how-to in the SlimDevices Wiki (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Automating_MusicIP_with_GenPuid)

hickinbottoms
2008-06-18, 07:30
I started to write up some notes about GenPuid on the wiki:
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Automating_MusicIP_with_GenPuid

It's not finished, but should be understandable from the notes. GenPuid
seems to work well from my tests, and is a good candidate for automating
the whole import/scan process if you're up for a bit of scripting.

Stuart

bobkoure wrote:
> Thanks for taking the time to both figure that one out - ant to post
> it!
>
> I just got a copy of genpuid.
> Getting a copy is a bit more involved than just downloading something;
> go 'here' (http://musicbrainz.org/doc/genpuid) for a step-by-step at
> MusicBrainz.
>
>
>

egd
2008-06-18, 07:54
I started to write up some notes about GenPuid on the wiki:
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Automating_MusicIP_with_GenPuid

It's not finished, but should be understandable from the notes. GenPuid
seems to work well from my tests, and is a good candidate for automating
the whole import/scan process if you're up for a bit of scripting.I must be obsessed logging in from an airport lounge whilst in transit :P

In any event...Stuart, you'd made a comment in the MiP integration wiki pages to consider integrating the two entries. It's a good idea, do you have the time? I'll be adding some entries on using Filters and Moods when I've figured out a little more and find myself with an evening to kill whilst on this trip.

egd
2008-06-18, 07:57
Thanks for taking the time to both figure that one out - and to post it!Having a 90k+ track library is enough incentive to seek to solve the problem :)

I tired of SC rescan running for over an hour everytime I added or edited anything in my library. Especially frustrating when you've just bought and ripped something and want to listen to it NOW...

hickinbottoms
2008-06-18, 13:50
Yep - I'll give that a go when I get a moment.

Stuart

egd wrote:

hickinbottoms;313153 Wrote:



I started to write up some notes about GenPuid on the wiki: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Automating_MusicIP_with_GenPuid It's not finished, but should be understandable from the notes. GenPuid seems to work well from my tests, and is a good candidate for automating the whole import/scan process if you're up for a bit of scripting.I must be obsessed logging in from an airport lounge whilst in transit



:P In any event...Stuart, you'd made a comment in the MiP integration wiki pages to consider integrating the two entries. It's a good idea, do you have the time? I'll be adding some entries on using Filters and Moods when I've figured out a little more and find myself with an evening to kill whilst on this trip.

egd
2008-06-19, 02:36
Wiki has now been updated to include improved method of incorporating new/ changed albums/ tracks etc.

bobkoure
2008-06-19, 13:09
Having a 90k+ track library is enough incentive to seek to solve the problem :)
We are not worthy.... :)

More seriously, yeah, I'm only in the 40k range, it's a bit cumbrous - and less than half what you're dealing with.

I'll take on writing the windows script(s).

Anyone have an idea as to whether genpuid can simply be passed a music folder root when using '/r'? Guess I'll test when I get home tonight if nobody knows...


From the shell script in the wiki article, it looks like the answer is 'yes'.

egd
2008-06-19, 15:06
We are not worthy.... :)
Actually I think I'm the dumbass in this equation - when I think of how much money has been spent on just the music, let alone the storage, I'm hard pressed to justify it, yet I keep going back for more. Guess it beats gambling, drugs and prostitutes, but is somewhat of an addiction nevertheless :)

bobkoure
2008-06-19, 19:36
Here's a first cut at a windows script


setlocal
set key=1234567890abcdef1234567890abcdef
set cache="C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_NAME\Application Data\MusicIP\MusicIP Mixer\default.m3lib"
set musicdir="D:\MUSIC"
"%~dp0genpuid.exe" %key% -m3lib=%cache% -archive -r %musicdir%
endlocal

save as a .cmd file in the same directory as genpuid.exe.

I've tried it, it works - but I don't see any reduction in the time taken for MusicIP Import.

I ran the script above, then the musicIP refresh, then reload cache, then "look for new and changed music" in SC.
Or should I have not run refresh?
I'm pretty sure "reload cache" is necessary, or the (headless) MusicIP wouldn't have the new data generated by genpuid... right?

changed "bat or cmd to just cmd:
You have to save the file as a .cmd - I don't think the "%~dp0" works in .bat files...



To schedule in windows, Go to Control Panel/Scheduled Tasks/Add Scheduled Task (which is a "wizard") then pick "browse" and select the cmd file you just created, pick a time, and make sure the "user" the task is "running as" is a user that has access to both your music folder(s) and to your MusicIP cache.

egd
2008-06-19, 19:51
I've tried it, it works - but I don't see any reduction in the time taken for MusicIP Import.

I ran the script above, then the musicIP refresh, then reload cache, then "look for new and changed music" in SC.
Or should I have not run refresh?
I'm pretty sure "reload cache" is necessary, or the (headless) MusicIP wouldn't have the new data generated by genpuid... right?When you load MiP's HTTP API you should have a fourth button appear along with a message next to it stating that the cache has changed - if I recall correctly is is the "Reload Cache" button. You shouldn't have hit "Refresh Songs", which I'm guessing is what you've referred to as "musicIP refresh".

I see I screwed up the Wiki instructions - my apologies...they're now corrected :/

bobkoure
2008-06-20, 07:05
No apologies needed. IMHO this is one of those "incremental improvements until it's better" things.

Any notion if it's possible to get the headless MusicIP to reload its cache without the web interface?

There seem to be two issues being solved here:
- when using "look for new and changed music" in SC/settings, the "MusicIP Import" takes just as long as when using "clear library and rescan everything": Even using the web interface, it looks like we might have a solution for that.

- automated updates: I actually care if the rescan procedure takes five hours, so long as it can happen from, say 2AM to 7AM. Faster would be better, of course, but being able to just put music in my music folders and have it in MusicIP and SC the next morning would be really good.

Feel free to tell me I've gotten it all wrong...(?)

egd
2008-06-20, 09:42
No apologies needed. IMHO this is one of those "incremental improvements until it's better" things. Ahem, if you'd not followed my incorrect instructions its likely SC's scan would have been a pretty snappy affair.


Any notion if it's possible to get the headless MusicIP to reload its cache without the web interface?AFAIK the instruction to reload the cache can only be isued via the HTTP API, however, I saw something a while back using wget to emulate the button press and I used to shut down my ReadyNAS (I got rid of it a long time back) from a Linux script too, so it would be possible under Linux, and possibly Windows too.



There seem to be two issues being solved here:
- when using "look for new and changed music" in SC/settings, the "MusicIP Import" takes just as long as when using "clear library and rescan everything": Even using the web interface, it looks like we might have a solution for that.?I'm on the other side of the world so can't test it but I think this is solved, the Wiki instructions have been updated to reflect what I did in my earlier test.


- automated updates: I actually care if the rescan procedure takes five hours, so long as it can happen from, say 2AM to 7AM. Faster would be better, of course, but being able to just put music in my music folders and have it in MusicIP and SC the next morning would be really good..?The speed part should be taken care of as a result of successfully scanning changes only rather than rebuilding the SC DB. The automation aspect should be pretty simple too - cron for Linux and Windows Scheduler for Windows calling the update scripts.

ezkcdude
2008-06-21, 11:18
MusicIP is screwing up my tags or something. Does anyone else run into this problem?

Siduhe
2008-06-21, 11:21
MusicIP is screwing up my tags or something. Does anyone else run into this problem?

In what way? Changing them, or not recognising them?

Have you disabled the "fix tags" option in the MIP GUI (this is windows, not sure the same option exists in Linux)?

egd
2008-06-21, 11:24
MusicIP is screwing up my tags or something. Does anyone else run into this problem?Could you elaborate on the problem you're experiencing? Headless doesn't write/ modify tags at all.

ezkcdude
2008-06-21, 14:24
Could you elaborate on the problem you're experiencing? Headless doesn't write/ modify tags at all.

Well, I determined it wasn't a problem with MusicIP, but with my tagging program.

maggior
2008-06-23, 09:13
When you load MiP's HTTP API you should have a fourth button appear along with a message next to it stating that the cache has changed - if I recall correctly is is the "Reload Cache" button. You shouldn't have hit "Refresh Songs", which I'm guessing is what you've referred to as "musicIP refresh".

I see I screwed up the Wiki instructions - my apologies...they're now corrected :/

I'm using Spicefly's web interface for headless MusicIP on Linux. On this webpage, I don't see a "reload cache" button. Also, I don't see in the API reference an API to reload the cache (http://www.musicip.com/mixer/httpprotocol.jsp).

What is the actual API that is being used? Is there an equivalent button that can be used on Spicefly's web interface?

Thanks!
Rich

Siduhe
2008-06-23, 09:44
I'm using Spicefly's web interface for headless MusicIP on Linux. On this webpage, I don't see a "reload cache" button. Also, I don't see in the API reference an API to reload the cache (http://www.musicip.com/mixer/httpprotocol.jsp).

What is the actual API that is being used? Is there an equivalent button that can be used on Spicefly's web interface?

Thanks!
Rich

One thing to watch out for here is that you have pointed the headless version to the right .m3lib file. I had an issue a few months back when I upgraded to a new version of MIP and my headless set up stopped updating. I eventually worked out that my old "default.m3lib" in the MIP directory had been superceded by a different "default.m3lib" in a different user specific directory. This was on Windows, so may not be an issue under Linux, but definitely worth checking.

tamanaco
2008-06-23, 09:45
I'm using Spicefly's web interface for headless MusicIP on Linux. On this webpage, I don't see a "reload cache" button. Rich

I think the "reload cache" button only appears in the Spicefly's web UI when you add (validate) new tracks. This is what happens in my Windows setup.

maggior
2008-06-23, 09:51
I think the "reload cache" button only appears in the Spicefly's web UI when you add (validate) new tracks. This is what happens in my Windows setup.

OK. I'm not validating tracks yet, I'm just using the "add tracks" capability. I'm more than happy with the mixes that I am getting without having to do the full validation.

Can you execute this command without having to do validation on the tracks? I guess I can look at the source for the web page and see what the source is for the button that comes up when you perform validation.

Nonreality
2008-06-23, 10:40
OK. I'm not validating tracks yet, I'm just using the "add tracks" capability. I'm more than happy with the mixes that I am getting without having to do the full validation.

Can you execute this command without having to do validation on the tracks? I guess I can look at the source for the web page and see what the source is for the button that comes up when you perform validation.Your mixes will get much better once you do. The only hassle is in the beginning, after that even a couple of hundred track only take minutes now on mine. The updating the cache is about a minute of time. Take the time at the beginning and you won't have much to do later. On Spices web interface the button only shows up if it needs updating. I'm really looking forward to figuring out a speed up and automating of the SC scan.

tamanaco
2008-06-23, 11:03
OK. I'm not validating tracks yet, I'm just using the "add tracks" capability. I'm more than happy with the mixes that I am getting without having to do the full validation.

Can you execute this command without having to do validation on the tracks? I guess I can look at the source for the web page and see what the source is for the button that comes up when you perform validation.

If in the SpiceFly UI to the MusicIP server the number of "Total Songs" equals the number of "Validated Songs" in your library, what would be the use of reloading the cache? When I get new CDs I rip them to my FLAC library, then I run the MusicIP Windows client to validate the new added tracks, after validation I start the SpiceFly Web UI (at this point "Total Songs" does not equal "Validated Songs") and click reload cache. My last step is to use the SC Web interface settings to add new and changed music. This is the way I've been doing it for a while now. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or there is a better way of doing this.

tamanaco
2008-06-23, 11:12
I'm really looking forward to figuring out a speed up and automating of the SC scan.

A few posts back I mentioned that maybe incorporating or adding some of the functions of the SpiceFly Web UI in the MusicIP plugin or in the SC basic settings page might save us a couple steps when adding new validated tracks or when we want to change the MusicIP server settings. Currently I have to use the MusicIP Windows client, SpiceFly's MusicIP server Web UI and the SC Web UI.

egd
2008-06-23, 14:24
I'm really looking forward to figuring out a speed up and automating of the SC scan.That's already addressed in the Wiki - assuming of course that what you're referring to is avoiding having SC rescan the entire library when you edit/ add a track or album to your library and update MiP's database/ cache?

egd
2008-06-23, 14:30
I'm using Spicefly's web interface for headless MusicIP on Linux. On this webpage, I don't see a "reload cache" button. Also, I don't see in the API reference an API to reload the cache (http://www.musicip.com/mixer/httpprotocol.jsp).

What is the actual API that is being used? Is there an equivalent button that can be used on Spicefly's web interface?

FYI, Reload Cache will only appear (in Spicefly's or the default) HTTP API page when MiP headless detects that the MiP library/ cache has changed since it last read it. Not sure what the API call is, the HTML may inform you.

PS. Don't assume for a second that MiP is fully (or even partially) documented.

egd
2008-06-23, 14:34
When I get new CDs I rip them to my FLAC library, then I run the MusicIP Windows client to validate the new added tracks, after validation I start the SpiceFly Web UI (at this point "Total Songs" does not equal "Validated Songs") and click reload cache. My last step is to use the SC Web interface settings to add new and changed music. This is the way I've been doing it for a while now. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or there is a better way of doing this.It's the same principle I've employed using Genpuid.

With Genpuid you can automate the process if required.

JohnnyLightOn
2008-06-23, 19:28
Integrating SC and MusicIP is way, WAY too complicated at present. It's crazy in its complexity and difficulty.

I'm an expert user, have done programming, etc., and after a couple hours of messing around with this, still haven't been able to get it to work. Never mind why, I'm sure if I kept at it after another couple hours it might work (then stop working, then miraculously start working, etc.).

Please understand that I appreciate all the effort here, but honest feedback needs to be given. Here is what needs to be changed in order for this setup to be enjoyed by a decent number of users:

- However musicip is to be installed, whether it be a gui program, headless, a service with no running program, etc., it should be completely installed and configured for SC by running a simple installation program.

- It should make no difference in what order SC and musicip load. To have to figure out which one must load first is a headache users should not have to deal with. This can be fixed in SC, or better in the musicip SC plugin.

These are only two changes. Neither is anything unusual. The most niche programs from the smallest software companies do it like this, and they would not survive if they didn't. (I guess there should be a third change: it has to work without much additional effort for most people.)

Sorry for the rant, but this requires such an expenditure of users' time at the moment that only the most sophisticated and determined users will use it. It would be so much more productive to do the work on the developers' end. The result would be a tenfold increase in users - and hopefully a corresponding increase in business for the musicip folks. :)

egd
2008-06-23, 20:12
Integrating SC and MusicIP is way, WAY too complicated at present. It's crazy in its complexity and difficulty.There's really nothing complicated about it, there are just a few must have conditions that will make or break it and they're addressed in the Wiki entry. If you follow them step by step you will get a working integration, regardless of platform. 90% of what's in the Wiki is aimed at helping explain how MiP works (eg analysis & options/how to do it, archiving tags etc.) rather than being instructions to set it up, in fact only part 5 can be considered actual configuration instructions.


These are only two changes. Neither is anything unusual. The most niche programs from the smallest software companies do it like this, and they would not survive if they didn't. (I guess there should be a third change: it has to work without much additional effort for most people.)SC and MiP are two independent programs that were written without one another in mind. I agree the "integration" can be a lot tighter, documentation is appalling etc. and I suspect (perhaps incorrectly) that over time the level of sophistication may well increase and a lot of the "stuff" one needs to do will just be taken care of. For the moment though, it is what it is, SC works fine without MiP and visa versa - if you take the trouble to integrate them the results are worthwhile.

Mushroom_3
2008-06-24, 03:02
As one who has just been through the struggle to integrate MusicIP with Squeezecenter I would like to add support to JohnnyLightOn's post.

Slim has gone to the trouble to add MusicIP support to Squeezecenter so why not make it easier to actually get it to work? Letting people try, fail and then get frustrated doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

In my case I finally cracked it by following this step:
run net start "MusicIP Server"
found on the MusicIP site. Either it is missing from the Spicefly guide or I didn't spot it.

It's great when you finally get it working though.

tamanaco
2008-06-24, 04:55
Integrating SC and MusicIP is way, WAY too complicated at present. It's crazy in its complexity and difficulty.

If what you mean is "full" integration... meaning that as you install SC the MusicIP engine is installed, configured and "all" its functions are fully integrated and accessible via the SC Web UI, then I'd agree with you. What I'd like is to able to interface with the MusicIP "server" from within the SC UI (All the current Spicfly Web UI functions within the plugin settings). This way I can add "validated" songs to my library in couple steps without having to use two UIs.

Being able to "optionally" start the MusicIP "client" validating process from within the SC UI before continuing to add new and changed music to the library would be great... but I imagine this is more complicated.

I think the purposed of the wiki is to first get users to understand what MusicIP does within the context of SC and eventually (as details are added) to show users how the service can be installed and configured to work with SC. I still don't really understand how to control the characteristics of the MusicIP mixes, and I don't think I ever will, as MusicIP mixing is not an "exact" science. Most times I'm positively-surprised with the resulting mixes... but sometimes I wonder which MusicIP Gremlin mixed a seed Brazilian Samba song with Tchaikovsky's 1812 Ouverture.

egd
2008-06-24, 08:38
As one who has just been through the struggle to integrate MusicIP with Squeezecenter I would like to add support to JohnnyLightOn's post.

Slim has gone to the trouble to add MusicIP support to Squeezecenter so why not make it easier to actually get it to work? Letting people try, fail and then get frustrated doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Amen, we could do with some documentation. I'm sure the developers of the Plugin (KDF?) could add quite a bit of insight to what we've collectively been able to glean through trial and error.

Can you let me know whether you used the Wiki entry @ http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter in trying to set it up, and if so, what was lacking. I've been lazy about adding Windows guidance, partly because Spicefly has it covered, partly because I'm too lazy to try to get it working on Windows, but mostly because my desktop environment is Linux so I'm hardly ever confronted with Windows.

Mushroom_3
2008-06-24, 10:28
Yes I did use that wiki entry as my start point. From there I found the spicefly site and the relevant page on musicip.com.

I did not understand some of it and it took a while for the penny to drop that most of it was for Linux (of which I know next to nothing). I was able to get it working under Windows using that page as my main reference. Thank you for your efforts.

autopilot
2008-07-14, 04:49
How does musicIP actually work, does it just scan the Genre tags, or is it more intelligent than that?

egd
2008-07-14, 07:33
How does musicIP actually work, does it just scan the Genre tags, or is it more intelligent than that?

It carries out an acoustic analysis of the waveform to decide on the track's attributes. Genre is ignored in the analysis, however, you can use Genre as an additional filter by limiting the playlist to music from a specific genre.

david_f1976
2008-07-16, 02:25
Hi,

I started trying to integrate MusicIP and SlimServer 6.5.4 last night according to the wiki instructions for SqueezeCenter and am just looking for some clarification on what I'm doing and that it'll work without me upgrading to SC.

I'm now at the point where genpuid has (seemingly) scanning been scanning my library overnight. Looks like its going to a long process.

Once genpuid is finished can anybody confirm the following set of instructions will work with SS 6.5.4.

1. Enable the musicmagic plugin and change the settings to not reload.
2. Clear the music library folder location
3. Do a clear and rescan

I feel like I'm missing something here, like I need to tell SlimServer to look for the Music Magic Database.

Thanks
Dave

pippin
2008-07-16, 02:32
OK, the long scanning of my library is through, I'm back from vacation so I tested this.
Looks fine, but I've got one issue: Some of my albums (few but noticable) show up with a wrong cover. There don't seem to be any reasons I note (the albums live in different subfolders, have a folder.jpg, some have artwork embedded in the mp3, but that's correct as well).
Does anybody else experience this?

Rick B.
2008-07-16, 05:27
Deleted...

Rick B.
2008-07-16, 05:29
Hi,
Once genpuid is finished can anybody confirm the following set of instructions will work with SS 6.5.4.

1. Enable the musicmagic plugin and change the settings to not reload.
2. Clear the music library folder location
3. Do a clear and rescan

I feel like I'm missing something here, like I need to tell SlimServer to look for the Music Magic Database.

Thanks
Dave

You have to always start MusicIP before Slimserver. Just before you start Slimserver do a double-check in MusicIP properties to make sure that the service is on - it has a sneaky way of stopping after scanning without you knowing it.

egd
2008-07-17, 13:27
OK, the long scanning of my library is through, I'm back from vacation so I tested this.
Looks fine, but I've got one issue: Some of my albums (few but noticable) show up with a wrong cover. There don't seem to be any reasons I note (the albums live in different subfolders, have a folder.jpg, some have artwork embedded in the mp3, but that's correct as well).
Does anybody else experience this?

Sorry, can't say I've come across that one Pippin. I'll look into it.

egd
2008-07-17, 13:29
I think this screenshot says it all...why go through two scans when one will do?

Brian Ritchie
2008-07-17, 16:54
I think this screenshot says it all...why go through two scans when one will do?

In my case: because every time I've tried an MIP-only scan before, something went wrong. In particular, all my artwork disappeared. However, that was when I could only build mixes on playlists; perhaps it would be better now.

But while I'm doing "scan for new/changed", it makes little difference anyway: the directory scan is fast, the MIP scan is much slower (by an order of magnitude). Maybe next time I want to do a complete wipe-and-scan I'll try unchecking the music folder; but not until then, because if it screws up, I'll end up having to do a double-scan from fresh all over again.

-- Brian

RoonieQ
2008-07-17, 17:03
What's the consensus on archiving Apple lossless files once one's analysis is complete? I can't seem to find a clear recommendation as to best practice.

tamanaco
2008-07-17, 20:21
last.fm gets a new Web UI... Hmmm, is the last.fm Dashboard gone?

ModelCitizen
2008-07-18, 01:09
last.fm gets a new Web UI... Hmmm, is the last.fm Dashboard gone?
The last interface badly needed updating and I think the new one is better... but it takes a bit of getting used to. It's great to be able to see your Loved Tracks and to see the My Playlist facility expanded but Shoutbox has been relegated right down the bottom of a long page... and is very missable.

Anyway, what's this got to do with MusicIP (on which I have given up.... after three weeks I'd only managed to scan half of my collection)?

MC

egd
2008-07-18, 01:10
What's the consensus on archiving Apple lossless files once one's analysis is complete? I can't seem to find a clear recommendation as to best practice.

If MiP supports it then archive it, the rationale being the same as for any other files.

egd
2008-07-18, 01:12
Anyway, what's this got to do with MusicIP (on which I have given up.... after three weeks I'd only managed to scan half of my collection)?How big and/ or esoteric is the collection? Hmm, just had a look, it's eclectic, but not what I'd call esoteric, looking at it your library shouldn't take that long to analyze.

pippin
2008-07-18, 01:49
How big and/ or esoteric is the collection? Hmm, just had a look, it's eclectic, but not what I'd call esoteric, looking at it your library shouldn't take that long to analyze.

My little server took about 5 Weeks to analyze my library (four of which I was not at home, so fine...).
I had some "esoteric" stuff there, too (own recordings, audio books) and it took about all of the time for 25% of the library. The other 75% went through within an day.

pippin
2008-07-18, 01:58
BTW, does MIP track how often you play something?
I'm just asking because I just had a look at my LastFM account and found out that my library is dramatically dominate (in terms of # of plays) by my iPEng test playlist (like 2500 listenings vs. xx listenings for stuff I feel I listen to typically). Will have to make sure my mac stops scrobbling...

But I don't want MIP to prefer those a lot over the rest of my library.

egd
2008-07-18, 02:03
Not AFAIK...MiP has no way of knowing whether or not you've actually listened to a playlist it has generated.

Siduhe
2008-07-18, 02:15
Not AFAIK...MiP has no way of knowing whether or not you've actually listened to a playlist it has generated.

http://www.musicip.com/mixer/httpprotocol.jsp

MusipIP does support Playcount (see get Playcount in the link above), and you can create a filter which limits (or recipe which nudges) your created playlist either towards or away from often played tracks. This may only be if you have the premium version (are Power Tools still only in the premium version?). You will need something to keep track of your played tracks though and import this back to MIP.

That said, I gave up trying to get MIP to keep up to date with my track information (this was a few versions back, mind) because it kept double counting plays of some but not all tracks.

tamanaco
2008-07-18, 03:58
Anyway, what's this got to do with MusicIP (on which I have given up.... after three weeks I'd only managed to scan half of my collection)?

MC

Well, functionally speaking... nothing. But given that MusicIP generates different playlists, somewhat based on specific MusicIP settings, it is nice to be able view the top artist and tracks (moods) these setting generate over time in last.fm. The bar graphs on top artist and tracks makes this a little easy on the eyes. Am I the only one doing this?

whatboutbob
2008-07-20, 11:47
dagnammit...i had musicip working nicely and then i had some odd network issues (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50012).

Now I can create musicip playlists via SC (7.1 - 21927) but I no longer get the option via the duet controller (which says v 7.0.1 r2448 - and software updates don't work).

I've tried rebuilding the MiP DB, then the SC DB. I've ensured MIP headless is starting prior to SC.

Now I'm just going around in circles.

Can anyone think what I'm missing?

schiegl
2008-07-20, 13:11
Now I can create musicip playlists via SC (7.1 - 21927) but I no longer get the option via the duet controller (which says v 7.0.1 r2448 - and software updates don't work).


I don't think mixing those two versions is supported. I'd try an updated version for your duet controller although i don't know why the software update doesn't work.

You could manually fetch a current SBC version from http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.1/
As your SC version is really up-to-date you should use the latest SBC version, too.

kind regards,
Markus

whatboutbob
2008-07-20, 16:37
Thanks for the reply. How does one manually update the SBC? I've seen the question asked in other threads but am yet to see a response.

whatboutbob
2008-07-20, 18:56
Thanks for the reply. How does one manually update the SBC? I've seen the question asked in other threads but am yet to see a response.

Ok, never mind. Managed to upgrade to 7.0.1 r2502m via SD card. Hasn't resolved the issue though. Still can't generate playlists from the SBC. :(

Is there a jive file for 7.1 that I'm missing?

schiegl
2008-07-20, 23:27
Hi,



Is there a jive file for 7.1 that I'm missing?


... SBC version from http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.1/
As your SC version is really up-to-date you should use the latest SBC version, too.


Did you see the file jive_7.1_r2704.bin?

kind regards,
Markus

thing-fish
2008-07-21, 07:38
My little server took about 5 Weeks to analyze my library (four of which I was not at home, so fine...).
I had some "esoteric" stuff there, too (own recordings, audio books) and it took about all of the time for 25% of the library. The other 75% went through within an day.

One note about that: before starting your scan, go into the MusicIP preferences and set up some exclusions. For instance, I tell it not to analyze files that contain the word podcast (all my podcasts go into a folder named /mnt/media/music/podcasts so that catches them all). If you have lots of audio or spoken word, I would make sure to tell MusicIP not to analyze them. They'll still be available in the library, but it won't spend the analysis time. Note you can also exclude them from mixes.

This is only available in the GUI unfortunately, out of luck if you're only running linux headless. You can run the GUI to make these changes, exit, then start the headless server though, if that's a possibility on your box.

whatboutbob
2008-07-21, 08:38
Hi,
Did you see the file jive_7.1_r2704.bin?
kind regards,
Markus

I did not. Sorry, but thank you! Getting it now.

(I was looking in http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest/7.1/ )

edit: thank you, thank you, thank you!!! MusicIP is working for me again on the SBC. My SBC and SBR versions must've gotten out of sync somehow during my aforementioned network issues. I thought I must've been missing something obvious when the latest version of jive.bin was only 7.0.1 xxx to manually update. I'm so glad to have musicip functionality back. thanks again!

pufnstuf
2008-07-25, 17:13
A sincere thank you to all the posters in this thread! Based on all the information gathered here I finally have a working MusicIP/Squeeze Centre setup with 28000+ tracks. Woohoo!

Much appreciated.

technojunkie
2008-07-26, 04:13
I've been happily using MusicIp for a few months now but I'm still trying to come to grips with the way the software creates a playlist. I understand that, when using MusicIp with SqueezeCenter, it is the settings within SqueezeCenter that dictates the outcome of the mix. However, whatever song I base the mix on, a different song from the same artist/album is repeated several times within the mix. In many cases, songs from the same artists/albums are repeated within the mix which greatly retricts the variety of the mix.

I had understood the MusicIp selects songs that are "sonically/acoustically" similar to the seed song but, if that were the case, why am I getting songs in mixes by the same artist/album that are sonically/acoustically nothing like the seed song ?

Harry G
2008-07-26, 19:10
How do I write the analysis info to the file tags?....


Select all tracks you want to affect, right click and select Archive Analysis. On the Linux GUI you may have to go through a menu to do it, I've not used it in a very long time....

Is it safe to tag tens of thousands of flac files at the same time in this manner? Any conflict with ReplayGain?

Any problem in doing so on an XP machine and then moving the tagged music files to a Linux box that will from then on be my SC server?

Trying out MIP on a 2000 track subset of my library has me extremely impressed. However, chatter elsewhere about losing tagging info from using earlier revs of the program has me spooked.

I've tagged over near 100,000 tracks over six years. If I had to do the same job again, I think I'd give up on music listening. I was going to add a ;-) to look friendly and cheerful, but honestly, the thought of losing the thousands of hours of work leaves me feeling chilled.

egd
2008-07-26, 21:09
Is it safe to tag tens of thousands of flac files at the same time in this manner? Any conflict with ReplayGain?

Any problem in doing so on an XP machine and then moving the tagged music files to a Linux box that will from then on be my SC server?

Trying out MIP on a 2000 track subset of my library has me extremely impressed. However, chatter elsewhere about losing tagging info from using earlier revs of the program has me spooked.

I've tagged over near 100,000 tracks over six years. If I had to do the same job again, I think I'd give up on music listening. I was going to add a ;-) to look friendly and cheerful, but honestly, the thought of losing the thousands of hours of work leaves me feeling chilled.

My experience of the MiP GUI with large volumes of tracks is that it isn't particularly stable, irrespective of platform. Whilst I'm not aware of any issues archiving tags with the current releases of MiP, I recommend you break your library down into more manageable chunks for the archiving operations - see the wiki entry for an example of how you can break it down. If you've currently got one .m3lib file covering the whole shooting match and it was generated in MiP GUI under Windows, make as many copies of it as you create sub-folders to move parts of your library to, then move a copy of the .m3lib into the root folder of the portion of the library you want to work on and have MiP GUI refresh songs using that m3lib (ie double click on the .m3lib file and select refresh from within MiP GUI. It'll eliminate the tracks it doesn't find from that copy of the m3lib). Once that'd done archive the analysis. There are no RG compatibility issues.

As a parting comment, whether or not you choose to archive the tags, you should have a backup of your library.

itm
2008-07-27, 02:38
I've got a library of 70,000 tracks (which don't include podcasts), and the current MIP estimate is 28 weeks to analyse them all. I'm not sure I can wait 6 months for this!!

egd
2008-07-27, 03:54
I've got a library of 70,000 tracks (which don't include podcasts), and the current MIP estimate is 28 weeks to analyse them all. I'm not sure I can wait 6 months for this!!

if your library is properly tagged and not too esoteric it shouldn't take too long to analyze. Mine is larger than that you mention and it certainly didn't take 6 months.

bobkoure
2008-07-27, 05:39
Is it safe to tag tens of thousands of flac files at the same time in this manner?
I did it when I first setup MusicIP. Tedious as hell making sure it did (this was under windows, so I made a current backup for each file tree, used MP3Tag to generate a tag-summary file for each folder, both on the backup and on the changed files, wrote a windows batch file to iterate through the tree, and diff each tag-summary file - then I started hand-comparing) AFAICT it worked just fine.

Now I drop new music into a "new" folder, get MusicIP to do an analysis, save tags, compare, and finally move the music to wherever it belongs. Over-cautious? Yeah, probably...

Harry G
2008-07-27, 14:47
Thank you all for the encouragements and cautions. I will proceed as suggested.

I agree that backup is crucial. This is part of the reason I'm moving everything to a raid server AND keeping my backups. Let me add that I think it a good idea (just like with real work)to keep the backups off site.

With the weird weather much of the world is having, I'd hate to lose my house and my music at the same time.

I had significant earthquake damage in '89 when I still lived in SF. Dealing with the insurance claims adjuster was not fun. I don't think I could have convinced him that I lost several thousand CDs unless I could find all the receipts.

maggior
2008-07-28, 09:37
I've got a library of 70,000 tracks (which don't include podcasts), and the current MIP estimate is 28 weeks to analyse them all. I'm not sure I can wait 6 months for this!!

Too many people get hung up on the analysis part of this. You can start using MIP before doing the lengthy analysis. I have not done the full analysis and I use MIP all of the time.

Initially, it will based mixes strictly on your tags. This works quite well. When you perform the full analysis, each track is fingerprinted allowing more finely tuned mixes.

Earler in this thread (which has gotten quite large!) a developer from MIP commented on this very topic confirming that MIP will work well even without full analysis.

itm
2008-07-28, 12:32
Presumably you have to wait until the validation is complete before you can start using it?

Harry G
2008-07-28, 14:05
Too many people get hung up on the analysis part of this. You can start using MIP before doing the lengthy analysis. I have not done the full analysis and I use MIP all of the time.

Initially, it will based mixes strictly on your tags. This works quite well. When you perform the full analysis, each track is fingerprinted allowing more finely tuned mixes.

Earler in this thread (which has gotten quite large!) a developer from MIP commented on this very topic confirming that MIP will work well even without full analysis.

If, without full analysis, it mixes just from tags, how does this differ from simply generating a random mix of a genre?

BTW: Because of its slowness, I'm suspicious about how the analysis is actually done. I have a feeling there's this big locked room in India with a T1 line, rows and rows of desks, and..... <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Monkey-typing.jpg> All of the workers gravely listening to each of our tunes on headphones before making their artistic decisions.

Seriously, this is such a powerful tool that its really a shame that the setup is a barrier to the non-technical. I'm now comfortable using MIP. However, of the eight friends I've gotten into Squeezeboxen, all bright people, the only ones I will introduce MusicIP to are a computer store owner and a digital engineer. For the others, the setup and ongoing maintenance, when they stumble, would become my job:-(

I am hoping that Logitech will license MIP as other companies have and properly integrate it into their product. The old Slim Devices got so much work for free from their enthusiastic user base that it gave management an odd, jealous attitude about outsiders making money from their product.

Logitech is a real company with a history of paying real money for what they need. I'm hoping one of the company's "Suits" will read the feedback on this plugin and see the logic in properly embracing this process.

maggior
2008-07-28, 19:51
If, without full analysis, it mixes just from tags, how does this differ from simply generating a random mix of a genre?

BTW: Because of its slowness, I'm suspicious about how the analysis is actually done. I have a feeling there's this big locked room in India with a T1 line, rows and rows of desks, and..... <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Monkey-typing.jpg> All of the workers gravely listening to each of our tunes on headphones before making their artistic decisions.

Seriously, this is such a powerful tool that its really a shame that the setup is a barrier to the non-technical. I'm now comfortable using MIP. However, of the eight friends I've gotten into Squeezeboxen, all bright people, the only ones I will introduce MusicIP to are a computer store owner and a digital engineer. For the others, the setup and ongoing maintenance, when they stumble, would become my job:-(

I am hoping that Logitech will license MIP as other companies have and properly integrate it into their product. The old Slim Devices got so much work for free from their enthusiastic user base that it gave management an odd, jealous attitude about outsiders making money from their product.

Logitech is a real company with a history of paying real money for what they need. I'm hoping one of the company's "Suits" will read the feedback on this plugin and see the logic in properly embracing this process.

It's a lot different than just a random mix. When you do the full anslysis, it looks to see if there is a fingerprint for the track in the MIP database (accessed over the internet). If there is, it applies it to the track. If not, it generates one. That's what takes time - to generate the fingerprint, it analyzes the audio data.

If you don't do the full analysis, you still get valid mixes that work quite well. These mixes are still based on the algorithms used in MIP. You just *may* not have the best mix possible. For instance, a live version of a song might be handled differently than a studio version if a full analysis has been done.

I suggest you read back in this thread. You will see that just "adding the tracks" creates mixable tracks from even the most obscure artists and albums. I have a lot of indie imported electronic music that is listed as mixable without doing any analysis. I was very impressed.

I do agree that better integration would be nice. However, many of the issues lie on the MIP side. I run my MIP server headless on a Linux server and find that I have to restart it at least once a week. This, plus the lack of understanding on how to add tracks efficiently, what the advantage is of doing full analysis on tracks, what MIP is actually doing, and so on, are not issues with Logitech, but with *MIP*.

Getting it going can certainly be a frustrating experience. I was lucky and found some good info on the 'net that helped and I was up and running with something in a short amount of time. But it took me time to figure out how to hack my init script to start MIP automatically when SC is started.

I agree that there is room for improvement, but, IMHO, many of the issues lie at MIP's doorstep, not Logitech's. The community has done a great job of providing info (much of it developed in this thread), but it can only go so far with the current implementation.

BTW, on this page there is a comment from a developer of MIP regarding the difference between full validation and just adding tracks to MIP:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48270&page=20

The pertinent comment is by whicken. It was made in response to my comments made here:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=307048&postcount=30

maggior
2008-07-28, 19:52
Presumably you have to wait until the validation is complete before you can start using it?

No, you don't - that's my point.

RoonieQ
2008-07-30, 05:45
If MiP supports it then archive it, the rationale being the same as for any other files.

Well, after choosing to archive all of my ALAC files, the newly archived (modified) files all possess a loud audible click at the end of each file when played. Not good.

Fortunately, I of course made a complete backup of said files prior to the archiving process and have subsequently restored the whole lot.

Comments?

tamanaco
2008-07-30, 06:28
Well, after choosing to archive all of my ALAC files, the newly archived (modified) files all possess a loud audible click at the end of each file when played. Not good.

Fortunately, I of course made a complete backup of said files prior to the archiving process and have subsequently restored the whole lot.

Comments?

From the begining I decided not to allow MusicIP to write (archive) its data in my FLAC files. It's still an evolving technology. As far as I know, it is still in beta. Instead I choose to use the separated default.m3lib MusicIP reference index. This way is very easy to remove and re-install MusicIP as long as you don't change the location (absolute path) of your music library in your server. I also make a backup copies of the default.m3lib whenever I validate new tracks.

RoonieQ
2008-07-30, 06:48
From the begining I decided not to allow MusicIP to write (archive) its data in my FLAC files. It's still an evolving technology. As far as I know, it is still in beta. Instead I choose to use the separated default.m3lib MusicIP reference index. This way is very easy to remove and re-install MusicIP as long as you don't change the location (absolute path) of your music library in your server. I also make a backup copies of the default.m3lib whenever I validate new tracks.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do just that as well. As long as I have a method of restoring the track anaysis by some method if it is ever lost/corrupted that will be fine for me. Keeping current backup copies of the default.m3lib will work fine for me too. My inital scan and analysis (~16,000 files) wasn't terribly long (couple of days??) but I'd rather not have to do it again if the original info is lost.

egd
2008-07-30, 06:48
Well, after choosing to archive all of my ALAC files, the newly archived (modified) files all possess a loud audible click at the end of each file when played. Not good.

Fortunately, I of course made a complete backup of said files prior to the archiving process and have subsequently restored the whole lot.

Comments?
Good thing you had made a backup (always recommended). You should report this to Whicken from the MiP development team. I'm sure he'll give it the attention it deserves. Worth pointing out that I've archived analysis to mp3 and FLAC and never had any issues whatsoever - on a FLAC library of over 90k songs.

RoonieQ
2008-07-30, 08:21
Good thing you had made a backup (always recommended). You should report this to Whicken from the MiP development team. I'm sure he'll give it the attention it deserves. Worth pointing out that I've archived analysis to mp3 and FLAC and never had any issues whatsoever - on a FLAC library of over 90k songs.

Thanks egd - glad I had the backup too! I've added to your post on the MiP forum - thanks for opening it.

itm
2008-07-30, 12:58
No, you don't - that's my point.

It's just that none of my tracks have the Music IP icon against them, and my music library is only showing those tracks (and artists) which have been processed - i.e. only a fraction of my collection so far. So I suppose I'll have to wait awhile if I want full visibility of my collection.

mikerob
2008-07-30, 14:54
I'm not keen on archiving the MusicIP fingerprint data to tags on tracks.

I tried it about a year ago and found that it stopped AAC and ALAC tracks playing on an iPod shuffle. The way that MusicIP added the tags changed the order of tag atoms that the shuffle was expecting. It took me a long time to clean this up so I'd rather not take the risk again.

maggior
2008-07-30, 18:43
It's just that none of my tracks have the Music IP icon against them, and my music library is only showing those tracks (and artists) which have been processed - i.e. only a fraction of my collection so far. So I suppose I'll have to wait awhile if I want full visibility of my collection.

That's surprising. Are your files all tagged properly? I think all that matters is that the artist and track name be correct.

Here are the stats of my library from the MiP web page:
Total songs 20,377
Mixable songs 14,511
Songs to validate 20,377

I have a lot of bootleg recordings in my library and this accounts for the vast majority of the songs that are not mixable.

I attained this by only performing the "add music" operation from the MiP web page.

How do you perform the validation process - is it from the web interface talking to the headless server or are you using the GUI? The reason that I ask is that the issue may be that you have multiple MiP "databases". I ran into this myself.

I'm running Linux. If you are running Linux as well, I may be able to help you out. I don't have any experience with MiP on Windows, so I don't know what issues there could be there.

Wirrunna
2008-07-30, 21:05
Has anyone tried this plugin ? http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49226
It works like a "Freestyle" mix from just one song.

itm
2008-07-31, 00:24
That's surprising. Are your files all tagged properly? I think all that matters is that the artist and track name be correct.

Here are the stats of my library from the MiP web page:
Total songs 20,377
Mixable songs 14,511
Songs to validate 20,377

I have a lot of bootleg recordings in my library and this accounts for the vast majority of the songs that are not mixable.

I attained this by only performing the "add music" operation from the MiP web page.

How do you perform the validation process - is it from the web interface talking to the headless server or are you using the GUI? The reason that I ask is that the issue may be that you have multiple MiP "databases". I ran into this myself.

I'm running Linux. If you are running Linux as well, I may be able to help you out. I don't have any experience with MiP on Windows, so I don't know what issues there could be there.

Everything has an artist/album/title/track number tag. I also have alot of bootlegs. I'm performing validation from the GUI - Windows XP SP2 I'm afraid.

Siduhe
2008-07-31, 02:17
itm, apologies for not going back over all your posts on this topic, but are you running the headless version of MusicIP?

If so, there are a couple of things I can suggest - first, you may need to do a full clear and rescan in Squeezecenter for files which have recently been analysed but not validated by MIP to show up.

Assuming you've tried that and you still have a problem, double check the location of the default.m3lib file that you've given the headless mmm.ini file. I had an experience a bit like yours where songs just weren't showing as mixable in SC, and I eventually discovered that MIP had created a new default.m3lib in a different place (Documents and Settings/Username/Application Data, I think) but I hadn't updated the setting in the mmm.ini document.

If you run some validation over your files using MIP, then close the app down and save the cache, does the default.m3lib file change the time and date stamp? If not, you may have another one kicking around somewhere.

maggior
2008-07-31, 09:05
itm, apologies for not going back over all your posts on this topic, but are you running the headless version of MusicIP?

If so, there are a couple of things I can suggest - first, you may need to do a full clear and rescan in Squeezecenter for files which have recently been analysed but not validated by MIP to show up.

Assuming you've tried that and you still have a problem, double check the location of the default.m3lib file that you've given the headless mmm.ini file. I had an experience a bit like yours where songs just weren't showing as mixable in SC, and I eventually discovered that MIP had created a new default.m3lib in a different place (Documents and Settings/Username/Application Data, I think) but I hadn't updated the setting in the mmm.ini document.

If you run some validation over your files using MIP, then close the app down and save the cache, does the default.m3lib file change the time and date stamp? If not, you may have another one kicking around somewhere.


This is exactly what I had experienced. On Linux, I was able to fix it by making sure the account I was running the app in was consitent. I'm glad you were able to put this issue in terms of Windows for itm.

RoonieQ
2008-07-31, 17:35
Well, after choosing to archive all of my ALAC files, the newly archived (modified) files all possess a loud audible click at the end of each file when played. Not good.

Fortunately, I of course made a complete backup of said files prior to the archiving process and have subsequently restored the whole lot.

Comments?

Well it seems that this is a Slim Devices issue. MusicIP techs have reviewed and tested the supplied offending files (archived with click) and found that the click artifacts(?) only occur when the files are played through the Squeezebox. They see it as a Slim Device issue. Bug??

This is their response:

"Thanks for sending the offending files '03 Walking in the Air.m4a' and '03 Pretenders, The - Brass in Pocket (archived).m4a'. We have analyzed these songs to verify that our meta-data is embedded and then played them in iTunes, QuickTime, and MusicIP Mixer 1.9b6 and have not been able to reproduce the audio glitch mentioned. Additional I have riped and downloaded several ALAC tracks with no luck in reproducing this glitch. Verifying that the audio stream was not corrupted by our tags.

Additionaly we have loaded our Squeezebox with these files and have verifed that there is a poping noise that does occur in between the decoding. This appears to be an issue with the Squeezebox and needs to be further addressed with them.

-Joe Rifkin

Joe@MusicIp.com"

Wirrunna
2008-07-31, 19:28
RoonieQ, I have added this to bug 4366 >>-> http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4366 <-<< . It would be helpful if you could also upload a track that causes the noise.

RoonieQ
2008-08-01, 07:10
RonnieQ, I have added this to bug 4366 >>-> http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4366 <-<< . It would be helpful if you could also upload a track that causes the noise.

Thanks. Will do. Just waiting on a token from the bugzilla site in order to upload an attachment.

BTW - it's RoonieQ :)

excalibur
2010-05-12, 05:35
Running GenpuID on a Vortexbox. There is no problem running it from the web-GUI, but to archive fingerprints in TAGs I'd prefer to run it with GenpuID. But when I do in the /opt/genpuid/log.txt I see that I have a problem from the first automated script run this morning;

*********

[2] Fingerprinting /storage/music/MP3/Suede/Coming Up/10 Saturday Night.mp3
Wed May 12 04:03:24 2010
[0:00] Fingerprint failed (mis-execution): /storage/music/MP3/Suede/Coming Up/10 Saturday Night.mp3
[2] Fingerprinting /storage/music/MP3/Suede/Coming Up/08 Picnic by the Motorway.mp3
Wed May 12 04:03:24 2010
[0:00] Fingerprint failed (mis-execution): /storage/music/MP3/Suede/Coming Up/08 Picnic by the Motorway.mp3
** Stopping Processing

***********

This really puzzles me. I know not how to proceed. What Can be wrong with my GenpuID proccesing?

I couldn't see the changes in the cache file when I ran GenpuID, so I changed the mmm.ini files in both locations "/opt/genpuid" and "/opt/MusicMagicMixer"

From default "/root/.MusicMagic/default.m3lib" to my customised location "/var/cache/musicip/cache/default.m3lib".

So by now I presume that I am building the same DB whether I use Headless GUI API port 10002, or GenpuID from command-line. And when the daily cron runs, it runs my GenpuID and stores fingerprints to TAGs in songs.

This should make it easier for me to recreate the DB if I ever have to… God forbid.

I have now indexed about 2300 songs via the web-GUI. The DB is at about 700KB. Does this seem right?

When I run GenpuID I see the above shown result. And then there is 'silence' for a long time, and suddenly songs with pathes start scrolling up my screen. To me this seems a bit odd. As I know that song can not be analyzed that fast. And then GenpuID just exits. Hopefully having done it's work.

Is there a reason why this guy runs BOTH GenpuID first AND then Web-GUI on the same files…????

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/in…..ng_Genpuid

In the section "Maintaining the MiP database".

Thanks for any help you may be able to spare… I am at my wits end here

Morten E

PS. If you need more background info please see my thread here:
http://vortexbox.org/forum/help/instralling-musicip-mixer-on-vortexbox/page-5/

aubuti
2010-05-12, 06:11
Running GenpuID on a Vortexbox. There is no problem running it from the web-GUI, but to archive fingerprints in TAGs I'd prefer to run it with GenpuID. But when I do in the /opt/genpuid/log.txt I see that I have a problem from the first automated script run this morning;

<snip>


Could you show what genpuid command you/Vortexbox are using? Otherwise it's a little hard for people who don't use Vortexbox to troubleshoot.

On your last question you posted a broken link, but assuming you meant this one (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter) the reason for the two steps is simple, although it's really three steps. The first step (the genpuid command with the -archive option) writes the genpuid tags to the files. The second step (the MIP web ui on 10002) reads them into the MIP database. The third step (SBS scan for new and changed) brings those changes to SBS.

You may also find this thread helpful: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63654&highlight=genpuid

excalibur
2010-05-12, 08:44
Could you show what genpuid command you/Vortexbox are using? Otherwise it's a little hard for people who don't use Vortexbox to troubleshoot.


Thanks for your help.

I start genpuid with this command
sudo /opt/genpuid/genpuid 57aae6071e74345f69143baa210bda87 -logex -m3lib="/var/cache/musicip/cache/default.m3lib" -r "/storage/music/" -archive

Where path to genpuid is /opt/genpuid/genpuid
And my music is stored at /storage/music/

Any thoughts would be great.

Thanks

Morten

aubuti
2010-05-12, 09:12
I start genpuid with this command
sudo /opt/genpuid/genpuid 57aae6071e74345f69143baa210bda87 -logex -m3lib="/var/cache/musicip/cache/default.m3lib" -r "/storage/music/" -archive
That looks like one problem, although I can't guarantee it's the only problem. The location of the file(s) should be the last argument, so you should use:
sudo /opt/genpuid/genpuid 57aae6071e74345f69143baa210bda87 -logex -m3lib="/var/cache/musicip/cache/default.m3lib" -r -archive "/storage/music/"

And don't forget to look at that other thread I pointed you to. Good luck.

excalibur
2010-05-12, 15:20
Thanks Aubuti,

But I found out it was because I used GenpuID v. 1.4. Apparantly it doesn't work on my system. I tried with v. 1.2, which was quick in doing the analysis. I think its there.

The log-file says - check. Everything green. So I think I got it.

excalibur
2010-05-14, 11:34
Hi guys,

I seem to have forgotten to actually commend Andrew from Vortexbox. This Fedora distro really is a match made in heaven for the SBS.

I 'downgraded' from a QNAP 209 II Pro (500MHz CPU 256MB RAM), with QNAP OS, that needed a special QPKG package to be able to install Squeeze-server at all. Took me a long time to get up and running.

After 5 months of early love with my SB, I found out about the greatest plugin of them all - MusicIP. Only to realise that my QNAP 209 architecture did not support it.

I then looked carefully into the first NAS I bought, that at the time (I could not get going with either FreeNAS/ClarcConnect or SME-Server). Actually not a NAS but just a thin client PC. (HP 5730, 1GHz CPU, 512 MB RAM and most importantly PASSIVELY cooled - No noise at all).

But during my first 5 months of SB'ing, I came across many appraisals about the Vortexbox distro. So I got the HP 5730 up and running replacing the 1GB Flash drive with an old laptop drive, and installed Vortexbox. All went without a hitch. Squeeze-Server is built in and restarted with the system. It even has Ripit installed that will rip your CD's automatically to both FLAC and MP3 to each their folder and eject the CD afterwards. Very sexy - and userfriendly indeed.
AFter 1 hour of work I was playing SB on the box... Not so on the QNAP. Which was much more elaborate and finicky to get going.

I then muddled around getting MusicIP installed. No success until I found out that Andrew had made a script to install it with one command. In a shell type 'setup-musicip'. And click Enter. This will setip everything. Brilliant

It went absolutely like in vaseline. Great.

But lately I have had some grieve as to get GenpuID working to tag my FLAC files. But I think that it is there now.

This is by far the simplest and most quiet NAS I have ever seen. It chucks quickly some heavier chores like running music-analysis. But I was glad to see that when running GenpuID v. 1.2, each process only takes approx 5% of CPU (hence you can run at least 6 parallel instances, while playing on the server!), where the normal headless GUI snatches 80-100 CPU processing, while doing the analysis. So I am really pleased.

Let me just finish by saying that I too have developed a fine taste for my relatively large collection of 16.000 songs. It really is as if you just suddenly aquire lots more music, because you suddenly (or MusicIP) gets aware about the more seldomly listened to tracks and finds mixes where they perfectly match.

A very new and rewarding way of listening to music.

excalibur
2010-05-21, 02:02
Hi,

It seems you guys are the most knowledgeable on MusicIP after the demise of the old dedicated forum. So I have a question to you lot.

Over the last 10 days I have analyzed close to 7000 songs with GenpuID to the default.m3lib DB.

I have since then moved some songs around, and do now see that MusicIP web GUI actually thinks that these moved songs are new. As they have been added to the 'Songs to Validate'.

So in short, can I just leave the DB with my former folder-structure and rest assured that MusicIP/GenpuID will locate the new path for my songs and correct them in the DB? After all they have been analyzed and stored in DB (which is what takes a really long time.

Best regards

Morten E.

dbinder101
2010-06-25, 12:50
I just converted from Win 7 to Ubuntu and am having trouble with Genpuid 1.4 I run the command

genpuid XXX -logex -m3lib=/home/default.m3lib -r /musicdrive

However, the output contains the following:

Checking files to be processed...
Songs to be scanned: 11
** Stopping Processing

And then it lists all the songs and their puid. However, the m3lib never gets updated. Is it because I should be using genpuid 1.2 or am I doing something else wrong? If I need 1.2 does anyone know where I can download it?

excalibur
2010-06-25, 12:55
Give me your e-mail and I'll send it to you.

dbinder101
2010-06-26, 05:11
Excaliber, I pm'd you with my email address, thanks.

audiomuze
2010-12-16, 13:24
So in short, can I just leave the DB with my former folder-structure and rest assured that MusicIP/GenpuID will locate the new path for my songs and correct them in the DB? After all they have been analyzed and stored in DB (which is what takes a really long time.Probably... if you use the MiP headless server interface to update the library it'll discard the incorrect file references and pick up the new wherever they're located. If you archive the analysis then you don't have the problem of having to redo the analysis when moving files around.

Also, if you're looking to run genpuid 1.4 on a recent Ubuntu you need to follow these instructions: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=492782&postcount=17

3o4Titties
2011-01-13, 08:37
It's all about Slacker Radio.

Their algorithms are far more advanced and their library of licensed music is far FAR more vast then either Music IP or Pandora.

cparker
2011-01-14, 15:06
Slacker is only available in the US and you cant take it on holiday with you.

Phil Leigh
2011-01-15, 00:37
It's all about Slacker Radio.

Their algorithms are far more advanced and their library of licensed music is far FAR more vast then either Music IP or Pandora.

????????????
musicip is not a library of music.

bobkoure
2011-02-09, 08:15
It's in with a bunch of settings that appear to be on/off, but that doesn't make sense with 'cpu='
I'm wondering if it's number of CPUs, priority, or something else.
Anybody know, before I start experimenting?