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View Full Version : Riddle me this - differing scan results



bigfool1956
2008-05-27, 16:22
I have the latest stable release on two different computers. Both are wired connections to the router, and my NAS is also wired to the router.

Now if I scan the same root library on the two computers I different results. Latest results are:

Computer 1: 631 albums with 8326 songs by 265 artists

Computer 2: 618 albums with 8053 songs by 262 artists

Whilst I realise that the SC settings can affect the number of albums and artists, I have them set up the same as far as I can see.

Also, whatever the settings, the number of songs should be the same.

Both computers are using AVAST AV, with exclusions set to *.my*

Frustratingly the one I actually want to use as the server (an old lappy) is the one that has 'lost' nearly 300 songs.

Anyone got a suggestion?

slydog75
2008-05-27, 17:43
Parse the data to find out what's missing. That should clue you in on the issue. This could most easily be done with a program like AAC: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48096

jsprag
2008-05-27, 18:25
Perhaps a permissions issue? Do you have any subfolders on the NAS that have permissions set one way for laptop and differently for other computer (i.e. different users)?

Are some file types disabled on the laptop? (i.e. it isn't picking up FLAC or WAV files) Check Settings->Advanced->File Types

Do they scan different playlist folders? If a playlist in the playlist folder references a song outside of the "regular" music directory then SC will still pick that up.

Are the results repeatable - in other words, if you clear and re-scan will you get the same results?

bigfool1956
2008-05-28, 03:51
It's not a permissions issue, as the NAS is wide open to both machines.

All songs are in FLAC, so I would get all or none if it was a file types issue.

It is repeatable.

Things to check this evening: playlist folders, and try and find out what is missing to see if I can see a pattern.

Any other suggestions welcome.

Siduhe
2008-05-28, 03:58
Assume you are you using two instances of Squeezecenter, rather than one instance of Squeezecenter with the scan being inititated from different boxes?

Do you use anything like Itunes or MusicIP? I guess not Itunes if all the files are FLAC.

Also have you checked to see whether you have any "No Artist/Album" songs on the box with the missing files which don't appear on the other? It could be that the tags aren't being picked up correctly on one which might lead to the count being out.

bigfool1956
2008-06-13, 04:06
I think I might be on to something with this. It's taken a while as my missus has been hogging one of the computers that was affected.

Anyway, I was playing an album yesterday evening using the computer that has less tracks, and one of the songs was missing. I looked for it via music folder browse, and still couldn't see it. Looking at the folder from the other computer via Explorer, I could see that I do have the track..... but:

The tracks is called "Whatever Would Robert Have Said?", and as the file name cannot have a question mark in it with windows, it has been changed by the ripper to an upside down question mark. I can't help thinking this must have something to do with it. Unfortunately I didn't have time to see if I could see the track via the other SC.

Anybody else had any issues with upside down question marks in file names?

Phil Leigh
2008-06-13, 09:05
Are these 2 computers running the same operating system/version...and are they set up identically?

MrSinatra
2008-06-13, 12:29
I think I might be on to something with this. It's taken a while as my missus has been hogging one of the computers that was affected.

Anyway, I was playing an album yesterday evening using the computer that has less tracks, and one of the songs was missing. I looked for it via music folder browse, and still couldn't see it. Looking at the folder from the other computer via Explorer, I could see that I do have the track..... but:

The tracks is called "Whatever Would Robert Have Said?", and as the file name cannot have a question mark in it with windows, it has been changed by the ripper to an upside down question mark. I can't help thinking this must have something to do with it. Unfortunately I didn't have time to see if I could see the track via the other SC.

Anybody else had any issues with upside down question marks in file names?

thats a good question, b/c i know i have some characters like that... i even have some normal ? marks, which i think are from a differing char set (somehow?) and therefore the OS allows it. (one of EAC's abilities?)

you might also look at this bug, as its an issue that could be in play here:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8380

and i would also read the thread in the bugs url, that explains how you can configure SC to "guess" at track info if no "reasonable" tags are found.

bigfool1956
2008-06-13, 12:44
Had a chance to access the other machine tonight (my desktop), and this is definitely the problem. On the machine that is not missing tracks, I can see the song with the upside down question mark in SC.

On the other hand I could not see this track on the machine where the tracks are missing (an old lappy) even if I tried to navigate there through the music folder.

I renamed the file to exclude the character, rescanned on both machines, and now it appears in both! Both machines are running XP, and both are fully up to date. Both use Avast antivirus.

If I can't work out why this is, I guess I'm going to have to go through all 8,000 tracks I have with explorer trying to find and rename the 200 odd tracks that I am missing. Bummer!

MrSinatra
2008-06-13, 13:18
Had a chance to access the other machine tonight (my desktop), and this is definitely the problem. On the machine that is not missing tracks, I can see the song with the upside down question mark in SC.

i would not be so quick to assume that just b/c it has MORE tracks, it has ALL tracks.

i would double check the track count with winamp. i have never noticed winamp to be missing a track or file as long as it had the proper extension, (eg. *.mp3)

you should also not assume that the one that has more tracks has all the tracks the other one has. that would be a horrorshow for you if so, but i feel that it simply isn't credible to just assume that SC shows you all the files. that isn't to say it doesn't, but i just wouldn't assume it.


On the other hand I could not see this track on the machine where the tracks are missing (an old lappy) even if I tried to navigate there through the music folder.

i'm not sure if u mean thru SC or thru the OS?


I renamed the file to exclude the character, rescanned on both machines, and now it appears in both! Both machines are running XP, and both are fully up to date. Both use Avast antivirus.

i love avast. but something must be different between the two installs to produce these different outcomes. a version, a setting, something...


If I can't work out why this is, I guess I'm going to have to go through all 8,000 tracks I have with explorer trying to find and rename the 200 odd tracks that I am missing. Bummer!

awful. however, with winamp, you can do very quick searches for things like a ? mark.

bigfool1956
2008-06-13, 13:53
the desktop agrees with mediamonkey, so I think (hope!) all the tracks are there.

Maybe I need to see if I have extra code pages addd to one or other of the machines. That's possible as the missus often adds code page 1210.

bigfool1956
2008-06-14, 10:40
well removing all the upside down question marks found me an extra 130 tracks, but I'm still 140 tracks shy of the expected total. I wonder if there's some other non-standard characters this lappy can't read.

What a pain in the .....

MrSinatra
2008-06-14, 10:58
what you have to do, is figure out what all the characters are that (whatever filesystem) won't accept in the filename.

then you have to search for those. some are easy to spot, like an upside down question mark. but you might have some right side up question marks that you wouldn't think could be part of a filename, but that are b/c the char set is different.

this could apply to pound symbols, slashes, etc... not an easy task.

bigfool1956
2008-06-14, 11:22
Well, I realised I had nothing at all by Bjrk, so that was a giveaway. Bizarre considering the machine has German windows and the appropriate characters on the keyboard.

I've removed from all file and folder names now, just re-scanning to see how I get on.

egd
2008-06-14, 13:43
I remember going through the same issue a few years back when I had some drive failure and needed to rebuild my library from a combination of Linux and Windows sources where I had stored my backups. Here's what I did to deal with it:

1) Use a program like Total Commander (Windows Explorer is probably OK too, but I seem to recall its exception handling meant the solution was a lot more interactive) to move your library from one folder to another eg if your music is held in a folder called audio, create audio1 and move all of audio's child folders to audio1. The "inaccessible" files will be left behind in the folders they originate from, allowing you to instantly identify them and see what the offending characters are.

2) I then used mp3tag to load the audio folder and its kids and had mp3tag rename each file using their tags. It has Windows filename rules embedded in its logic and knows to avoid/ substitute characters Windows doesn't allow. In general terms this also means that the characters in the resulting filenames will not cause any issues under Linux.

3) There may be a few remaining files that are inaccessible from Windows and couldn't be accessed via mp3tag. The way to find these is to repeat 1) above, this time moving to audio2. Again, the "inaccessible" files will be left behind in the folders they originate from. These are then best dealt with by being renamed via Linux - I used a manual process to remove the offending characters.

4) When you're done with all of that you can use mp3tag to move all tracks back to audio using whatever tag info construct you wish to use.

bigfool1956
2008-06-14, 14:06
Thanks for all the help guys. I think I've found the remaining trouble makers.

Basically files/folders affected contained one of the following:

an upside down question mark
German special characters
French special characters
and one file had an n with a tilda over it

Wierd that one machine can read these and the other not, as both have German Windows, fully up to date, using the same release ZSan drivers to access the NAS.

At least I know what to look out for when I rip in future.