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View Full Version : SqueezeCenter-7.0.1 is it a joke?



steelee
2008-05-26, 03:31
I have been running 2 SB3's for about 18 months with no problems, then decide to 'upgrade' to SqueezeCenter-7.0.1..........what the hell is going on this is a joke, I can no longer use the SB's as they are so unresponsive, when I finally manage to select a track from my music folder it plays almost to the end of the track then starts again this is if the SB3 hasn't shut down which it does randomly then sits 'connecting to squeezeCentre and locks up...........

Running on a wireless network, tried 2 different routers, Netgear and Thompson, Works great with v6.5.4 but some many issues with SC its unusable

Can anyone tell me how I can roll back to the stable SlimServer_v6.5.4?

Cheers

Have managed to roll back to v6.5.4 and all working well again :-) I for one will be staying well away from the dreadful SC..........

dsendecki
2008-05-26, 05:00
Hi Steelee

I've been running SqueezeCenter 7.01 without issues for weeks now.

HP MediaSmart Server EX475 > Linksys WRT54G > 4 Squeezebox Receivers

Are you running Windows/Linux? Not really enough to go on here if you'd like to take advantage of 7.01.

dtz
2008-05-26, 07:35
After going through months of frustrations with various betas and most recently the official release of SC7.01, I rolled back to 6.5.4 and am much happier. There were a couple of things I liked better about SC7 but the glitches and extreme slowness became intolerable. I happened to have an old copy of 6.5.4 that I reinstalled. Try this link. It should be what you're looking for. http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/SlimServer_v6.5.4/

funkstar
2008-05-26, 08:13
It would be really useful to get some logs from you gues that are having problems with SC7, that was bugs can be identified and issues resolved.

SC7 shouldn't really be significantly slower than SS6.5.x, in fact some things are notably faster (scanning for instance). SC7 is also far more robust because of changes made to the error handling and the plugin architecture.

Having said this, the default web interface is a lot more intensive and demanding on your browser, so things may be slower in that regard. You can switch to the classic skin though which doesn't have the AJAX functionality.

funkstar
2008-05-26, 08:19
I also meant to say that SC7 was in an extended Beta program for several months and has been the most trouble free magor release many can remember.

Of course this doesn't mean there havn't been problems, but there has been a lot fewer than previously. Especially considering the simultanious release of two new products and a whole new OS and software platform for that hardware.

FredFredrickson
2008-05-26, 08:23
I vote people approach issues like this with a little more humility. "Is it a joke" is just kind of a slap in the face to the developers who are working hard to bring us updates. With a high probability that the problem may be with your individual setup, or if it's a real problem, they'll fix it very quickly, I think people could really approach things a bit nicer.

I work in the service industry and all I get is bad attitudes, people could really just lighten up a bit.

my 2 cents

snarlydwarf
2008-05-26, 09:26
Although the OP doesn't state his operating system, the behavior is consistent with failing to correctly update the database tables after a song is played. The most common cause of this is Windows Antivirus software: it sees a file being updated and decides uit should help and scan it.

Adjust your AV software to stop checking MYD or MYI files.

DMR NYC
2008-05-26, 09:59
I have had a SB3 for 2 years, no probs with the old interface. Am running WXP, FLAC. Sometimes 7.01 loads, sometimes not. Often takes a couple of minutes to load albums. Read through the forums, and stopped my antivirus sw from scanning the file types mentioned above. Still, problems. Here is the log (both before and after stopping the virus scanner):

[19:15:21.4762] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [19:15:21.4749] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[19:34:25.4540] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [19:34:25.4531] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1117.
[20:36:38.7474] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [20:36:38.7465] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[20:36:39.7607] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [20:36:39.7598] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[07:08:06.3944] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Timed out waiting for data]
[07:08:06.4144] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Timed out waiting for data]
[07:08:06.4442] Slim::Utils::Scanner::scanWMAStreamError (1245) Error: Timed out waiting for data
[07:08:08.0029] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Timed out waiting for data]
[07:08:08.0040] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Timed out waiting for data]
[07:08:08.0051] Slim::Utils::Scanner::scanWMAStreamError (1245) Error: Timed out waiting for data
[08:06:07.3093] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [08:06:06.7799] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[09:19:54.2272] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [09:19:54.2262] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1117.
[09:45:35.4182] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [09:45:35.4170] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[09:48:20.0481] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [09:48:20.0471] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[09:48:21.0500] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [09:48:21.0490] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[22:59:21.0990] Slim::Hardware::IR::executeButton (991) Error: Subroutine for irCode: [play] does not exist!
[23:10:39.2008] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [23:10:39.1647] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1117.
[18:55:30.8725] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [18:55:30.6674] Use of uninitialized value in numeric gt (>) at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 462.
[13:32:37.6009] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [13:32:37.6000] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[01:11:18.4591] Slim::Networking::Async::_dns_error (100) Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com
[01:11:18.5897] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[01:11:18.5908] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[01:11:18.7457] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (133) Unable to get players from SN: Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com, retrying in 300 seconds
[01:11:52.3667] Slim::Networking::Async::_dns_error (100) Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com
[01:11:52.3683] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[01:11:52.3697] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[01:11:52.3711] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::_error (342) Unable to login to SN: Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com
[01:11:52.3735] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (133) Unable to get players from SN: Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com, retrying in 300 seconds
[14:32:07.7952] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [14:32:07.7411] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[14:33:08.5917] Slim::Hardware::IR::executeButton (991) Error: Subroutine for irCode: [play] does not exist!
[19:06:56.2926] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [19:06:56.1293] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[19:12:36.7100] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [19:12:36.7090] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[19:14:59.7347] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [19:14:59.7337] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[15:55:12.6205] Slim::Hardware::IR::executeButton (991) Error: Subroutine for irCode: [play] does not exist!
[20:52:49.5504] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [20:52:49.4341] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[21:02:47.6409] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [21:02:47.6400] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[11:07:50.4843] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1329) Warning: [11:07:50.1560] Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at C:/PROGRA~1/SQUEEZ~1/server/Slim/Plugin/RhapsodyDirect/ProtocolHandler.pm line 1156.
[05:41:18.4765] Slim::Networking::Async::_dns_error (100) Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com
[05:41:18.6103] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[05:41:18.6318] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[05:41:18.6568] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (133) Unable to get players from SN: Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com, retrying in 300 seconds
[10:36:43.6744] Slim::Networking::Async::_dns_error (100) Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com
[10:36:43.6760] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[10:36:43.6771] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com]
[10:36:43.6793] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (133) Unable to get players from SN: Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.squeezenetwork.com, retrying in 300 seconds
[12:51:55.2111] Slim::Networking::Async::_connect_error (157) Failed to connect:
[12:51:55.3046] Slim::Networking::Async::_async_error (256) Error: [Connect timed out]
[12:51:55.3057] Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_error (264) Error: [Connect timed out]
[12:51:55.3077] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::PrefSync::_syncU p_error (571) Sync Up failed: Connect timed out

Suggestions? Should I go back to ver 6.5??

Thanks, David in NYC

steelee
2008-05-28, 01:16
I vote people approach issues like this with a little more humility. "Is it a joke" is just kind of a slap in the face to the developers who are working hard to bring us updates. With a high probability that the problem may be with your individual setup, or if it's a real problem, they'll fix it very quickly, I think people could really approach things a bit nicer.

I work in the service industry and all I get is bad attitudes, people could really just lighten up a bit.

my 2 cents

Point taken and was just frustrated, will refrain from such comments in future as I know the developers do a fantastic job,
I'm running on Windows Vista Sp1, 3GHZ dualcore extreme with 4Gb ram, AV files excluded, thanks for all you help but will stick with the working version for the Mo.

Cheers

ymilner
2008-05-28, 06:54
Point taken and was just frustrated, will refrain from such comments in future as I know the developers do a fantastic job,
I'm running on Windows Vista Sp1, 3GHZ dualcore extreme with 4Gb ram, AV files excluded, thanks for all you help but will stick with the working version for the Mo.

Cheers

I run 7.0.1 on AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (1.8GHz), with 1 GByte of RAM, Windows 2003 server.
Quite a big library (30512 songs).
The user experience is close to excellent: very fast (faster than 6.5.4, I believe) user interface, no problems at all.
It must be something in your system (sorry).

powellmi
2008-05-28, 09:44
Although the OP doesn't state his operating system, the behavior is consistent with failing to correctly update the database tables after a song is played. The most common cause of this is Windows Antivirus software: it sees a file being updated and decides uit should help and scan it.

Adjust your AV software to stop checking MYD or MYI files.

Super ADVICE !!!! Increased the speed a lot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Howard Passman
2008-05-28, 11:44
I maintain that most of the frustrations displayed on these forums could be eliminated by a good tech support department. The reason folks come here, in my personal experience, is because tech support doesn't or can't help them. The only place they have left to go is the forum. I'm specifically speaking only about issues with updates, installation, etc..

Again, I maintain most people want to plug this thing in and listen to music. We all have a lot of things on our plates and stopping to maintain what should could be a simple music playing device (I know it's anything but)is frustrating.

I've watched in the past 5-8 years as more and more companies are counting on forums to act as their tech support arm and I think it's sad. I believe time will show that the general public won't stick with products or companies that continue to utilize forums for this purpose.

BTW, I'm not saying forums don't have a purpose, but when you can't call and get help on what appear to be normal tech support issues like an update issue, well.....

Howard

mattybain
2008-05-28, 12:22
are counting on forums to act as their tech support arm and I think it's sad. I believe time will show that the general public won't stick with products or companies that continue to utilize forums for this purpose.

BTW, I'm not saying forums don't have a purpose, but when you can't call and get help on what appear to be normal tech support issues like an update issue, well.....

Howard

Is there any indication that the OP even called tech support? I can't see any mention that they tried.

In my experience most of the people who try and resolve their issues in the forums have not called tech support. I think it is a bit unfair to criticse the support when they have not had a chance to resolve it.

In my experience tech support are very good, there was even an occasion where they have paid for someone to send in their router for analysis it being replaced with a brand new model.

Now that is dedication to tech support which i have yet to see from any other company.

bklaas
2008-05-28, 12:50
I maintain that most of the frustrations displayed on these forums could be eliminated by a good tech support department. The reason folks come here, in my personal experience, is because tech support doesn't or can't help them. The only place they have left to go is the forum. I'm specifically speaking only about issues with updates, installation, etc..

Again, I maintain most people want to plug this thing in and listen to music. We all have a lot of things on our plates and stopping to maintain what should could be a simple music playing device (I know it's anything but)is frustrating.

I've watched in the past 5-8 years as more and more companies are counting on forums to act as their tech support arm and I think it's sad. I believe time will show that the general public won't stick with products or companies that continue to utilize forums for this purpose.

BTW, I'm not saying forums don't have a purpose, but when you can't call and get help on what appear to be normal tech support issues like an update issue, well.....


Howard, are you saying this because of specific issue with Logitech Streaming Media tech support, or are you describing a general business trend? I ask because what you are describing is not true of Logitech Streaming Media at all.

Logitech *does not* consider the forums their tech support arm. That said, we can't really stop people from using it as their first resource because they don't want to pick up the phone.

cheers,
#!/ben

Mnyb
2008-05-28, 13:19
And if the OP didn't even contacted support via mail or phone.
The only hope that 7.x is going to work for him is that somebody else with a very similar computer stumbles over the exact same problem AND actually contact support and gets it resolved.
And this fix actually gets into the code.

If it's an Firewall or AV issue or VPN software and whatnot that's is messing with SC then the "fix" is to identify the offender and change it's settings or make a workaround with SC and use a different port or similar.

Then the strategy to wait it out has even less chance to succeed.

I suddenly understand one of the rationalle's behind this ingenious idea:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48166

Some peps would always press "install" and if thats not working they return the product, it's ok to do so everyone does not have knowledge/time or interest to mess with it. So lovering the threshold for proper fault tracing is very good.

maggior
2008-05-28, 13:34
I've watched in the past 5-8 years as more and more companies are counting on forums to act as their tech support arm and I think it's sad. I believe time will show that the general public won't stick with products or companies that continue to utilize forums for this purpose.

Howard

I agree that this is a general trend. I've noticed it with high tech products in general (some heavy hitters like Sony, Linksys, and Apple) and have witnessed it happen at the company I work for. They basically replaced teir 1 support (first-time user type questions) with a web site. Higher levels of support come at a price - you pay for a support contract. A forum has also been introduced. It's all about cost reduction. In some ways, it is sad, but it's a sign of the times.

However, I now find that I get most frustrated when I can't find answers online and have to resort to calling a tech support number! This has happened to me with my ISP (Verizon), Linksys, and Dell (RMA for a DOA laptop). It's comprable to not being able to answer your question by reading the manual (remember those?!?!?).

IMO, what differentiates Slim Devices is how active their forums are. Part of this is due to the enthusiasm they have fostered in their products. Another part is the fact that company reps (including the head of Engineering!) actively participate. I've run into my fare share of problems and questions, but have never had to contact tech support.

Howard Passman
2008-05-28, 13:55
own experience. I've called twice with what I thought was a clear and consicely worded question. I asked it in different ways when I thought the tech didn't understand the question. I finally gave up both times when I realized I had reached some sort of human recording.

I don't know if the original OP called tech support or email them. I would hope he had at least tried that method, but the reason I came here was because, for me, that avenue was a dead end.

I wasn't just speaking about Logitech when I made my remarks about businesses using forums as their tech support departments. In some cases where tech support is fee based, it can be a life saver. As maggior pointed out, it is becoming more and more prevalent. The way I'm starting to judge whether a company is good with their tech support is by seeing if they host their own forum. If they do, I grade them poorly.

By no means is this something abused by just hardware manufacturers. At work I deal with software vendors that are the worst. I won't name them, but some of them are very big in the fields of Content Filtering, Virus appliance software, Internet routers, etc..

Maybe I'm getting too old. Maybe at my age I want instant answers, but when I called Netgear about an issue when I first used their NAS DUO (came with old SC software that no longer worked...lovely) they told me it would take *2* weeks to get an answer to my question. TWO WEEKS! Apparently, they not only don't have email, but they must not have mail period. What else could I deduce.

Anyhoo, that's my opinion and I'm also available to run for President of the United States.

Howard

pippin
2008-05-28, 14:07
Howard, are you saying this because of specific issue with Logitech Streaming Media tech support, or are you describing a general business trend? I ask because what you are describing is not true of Logitech Streaming Media at all.

Logitech *does not* consider the forums their tech support arm. That said, we can't really stop people from using it as their first resource because they don't want to pick up the phone.

cheers,
#!/ben

Yea. But what you CAN actually do, is hire some support people to browse the forum and assist instead of relying on 4th level support (developers) doing it. Believe me, it's even cheaper in the end ;-)
And it's a really cool way to make customers with quite a bit of involvement happy...

radish
2008-05-28, 14:45
The way I'm starting to judge whether a company is good with their tech support is by seeing if they host their own forum. If they do, I grade them poorly.


Whilst I agree 100% that good, professional, on-demand support is important, I take pretty much the opposite view on forums. I'm unlikely to buy anything technical from a company without a good community - it tells me (a) people are using the product (b) people like the product enough to care about it and (c) the company aren't control freaks when it comes to how their product is presented to the world. In the pre-purchase phase it also lets me get an idea of the feature set, performance, reliability, etc of the product.

Thinking of my all-time favorite gadgets one of the main recurring themes is a good community actively supported by the company in question.

snoogly
2008-05-28, 15:46
Yea. But what you CAN actually do, is hire some support people to browse the forum and assist instead of relying on 4th level support (developers) doing it. Believe me, it's even cheaper in the end ;-)
And it's a really cool way to make customers with quite a bit of involvement happy...

GREAT idea!!!

I am finding Logitech support to be useless. Not their fault - they are just unaware of what is going on in the real world.

Quite a few Mac users have been unable to scan with anything above squeezecenter 7.0. So far the only 'fix' has been to go back to v7.0. Support have no idea what the problem is. ... but why not? Why don't they they trawl the forums, looking for common issues, etc.

For what it's worth, this is a link to my latest post in a Mac thread.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=306345#post306345

mkanet
2008-05-28, 20:58
Ive seen the quality this to downhill after switching to SqueezeCenter. I have none of these issues when using any of the Slimserver versions.

Currently, I cant even use any of the music services that require SqueezeNetwork; and needless to say, all these services are perfectly accessible and work correctly when I go to their webpages directly.

Slimservices support (Anoop) has never been able to help me. Ive also submitted 2 reproduceable bugs on bugzilla, but all the developers just ignored them.

I honestly thought 7.01 would fix the mess that 7.0 made. But, it looks like its actually worse.


http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48237

These kinds of problems should never happen on a very clean standard install of Microsoft Vista with the latest Java running on it that has no problem with any other kind of music services.

Yes, I agree, it's a complete joke.

mherger
2008-05-28, 23:38
> Slimservices support (Anoop) has never been able to help me. Ive also

I wasn't aware we provide official support for SoftSqueeze on SN at all.

> submitted 2 reproduceable bugs on bugzilla, but all the developers just
> ignored them.

Can't find any with your mail address. What numbers?

Michael

mattybain
2008-05-29, 00:28
Slimservices support (Anoop) has never been able to help me. Ive also submitted 2 reproduceable bugs on bugzilla, but all the developers just ignored them.

I honestly thought 7.01 would fix the mess that 7.0 made. But, it looks like its actually worse.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48237
Yes, I agree, it's a complete joke.

Wow! you are using a completely free product which is unsupported by tech support (yet they still try and help you) and then you use words like "POS" and "joke"??

As Michael says in the other thread, splash some cash, get a squeezebox then if it doesn't work you probably have the right to complain if support can't help you.

There must be hundreds (if not thousands) of people who use SC on Vista with absolutely no issues, it has been completely rock steady for me ever since I switched to an early 7.0 release.

What exactly does a standard install of Vista look like anyway? I would suggest it is not a POS but there is actually something different with your PC which is failing to make it work.

Howard Passman
2008-05-29, 02:26
....if you're reading compaints about one of your products or services and you're spending your time writing to customers saying, "Gee, we really don't see the problem" then you are already lost. The sad part (and I'm not talking about Logitech) is I've watched many of these companies never put two and two together even after hiring outside help and ignoring their advice. Gee, I don't know what's wrong, I hired you to tell me. You told me and gee, I don't know what's wrong.

BTW, I got very good support on a Logitech remote I bought. The product is a little goofy, but....

Again, all I'm saying about the SB products is, if SD or Logitech would make good tech support available (decent hours would help for most) then this forum could drop the "Beginners" section, the "General" section and the rest would probably shrink dramatically. One thing they would stop seeing for sure is the frustration fueled, knee jerk, angry remarks that pop up fairly regularly. What they need to wonder is how many of that type of customer don't even come here and either send the unit back or stash it in a closet somehere.

Gee, I don't know what the problem is......

Nonreality
2008-05-29, 03:35
Just because people use forums doesn't mean bad support. You said that if you see product forums you automatically label the company bad. I've always rather gone to a forum to solve a problem rather than call a support line. I'm sure that a lot of other people feel that way too. Support lines are the last thing that I will use. I know that everyone is different and thats why I like the fact that both are available. Your whole idea of things is based on the existence of forums being a bad thing. I see complaints here but compared to how many people are using the equipment and new products being released it's not a bad showing. You are always going to hear screaming from people even if you had the best support system in place. It's just human nature.

radish
2008-05-29, 06:16
Again, all I'm saying about the SB products is, if SD or Logitech would make good tech support available (decent hours would help for most) then this forum could drop the "Beginners" section, the "General" section and the rest would probably shrink dramatically.
And that would be a good thing?? Not IMHO. I believe that this forum is pretty much the best support mechanism for any product I've ever used, the depth of expertise coupled with a willingness to help certainly beats any "professional" tech support line I've ever called many, many times over.



One thing they would stop seeing for sure is the frustration fueled, knee jerk, angry remarks that pop up fairly regularly.

No chance. People are people, they'll complain and throw their toys out of the pram regardless of the situation. I think this sums it up perfectly (note: strong language!):

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/


Gee, I don't know what the problem is......
Who says there is a problem?

Howard Passman
2008-05-29, 07:09
It just happened again :-)

Just an observation to nonreality...look at how many questions within the forum have zero replies. Also, check some of the ones with one or two replies where it is another person chiming in saying they need the same answer. How can a forum be a replacement for tech support if any questions go unanswered?

Bests,

Howard

radish
2008-05-29, 08:10
It just happened again :-)
What did?


How can a forum be a replacement for tech support if any questions go unanswered?


For the umpteenth time it's not a replacement, it's an addition, another option for those who choose it. You still seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the forum is provided instead of traditional support, when clearly it is not.

For someone with such disdain for forums you sure seem to spend a lot of time on them...you know you could just pretend we don't exist and get on with your life.

Howard Passman
2008-05-29, 08:27
I'm sorry, I missed the other times you said it was "an addition" to tech support. I also missed the times I said that I had "disdain" for them. I believe the point I was making is actually the opposite in that tech support was almost non-existent, in my *personal* experience, and that forces people to use the forum for tech support and not for the intended purpose of most forums. And actually I was paraphrasing when I asked how it could be a replacement for tech support.

I would never be so rude as to tell you to "get on with your life"

snarlydwarf
2008-05-29, 08:47
These forums aren't even an official 'addition' to tech support.

They are listed in the breadcrumbs at the top of the page as being under 'Community' which is exactly their purpose.

Smart companies listen to their customers: in this case, we have forums that are semi-watched by Slim/Logitech so they can judge our opinions on things to improve their products. Customers are wacky and come up with some pretty strange ideas (I still want a DIN-sized SB for my car that would sync up whenever I pulled into the driveway...) but they can inspire new features and improvements.

From a business perspective: would you rather your customers talked about your product and how they used/hated/loved it in a thousand small corners where you would most likely never see their feedback, or would you want it on your doorstep so you could benefit from their experience?

The enlightened company would choose the latter.

So the forum gets populated by people who (usually, there are some people who get more thrills in life by hating things and ranting about how much they hate them) generally understand the product, who want to get more from it, even if if they are unsure on what that 'more' is. Slim/Logitech can discern what is doable (sigh, I fear my DIN SB wouldnt get the sales it needed to be profitable for them, but I still hold hope) and some customers can and do provide solutions for themselves.

The side effect is that the forum is filled with some pretty savvy people who have lots of experience in software and by their own fiddling or just memory of seeing the same problem 100 times before (windows AV, network shares, etc) know the answers... which makes it useful for tech support. Not official, but from one customer to another.

Think of it as a 'User Group' which goes back to the early days of computing as one of the best (albeit unofficial) resources around. (By 'early days' I mean the days of big iron: User Groups predate microcomputers by decades.)

Again, Clueful companies encourage their users to congregate: they aren't afraid of a revolution, they want the constructive criticism as part of their product development.

Personally, I distrust any company that does not encourage their customers to ask other customers about their products. They are afraid of their own customers feedback.

(This is not to say that people shouldn't ask for help here: by all means, they should... people here generally love their Squeezeboxen and want to share that pleasure with others, just as someone in a Corvette Owner's Group would love to show off his car... but they just have to remember that they aren't at the dealer, most people here have no vested interest at all in whether someone's server or SB works... so being polite and attentive is going to get them more help than being rude.)

Mark Lanctot
2008-05-29, 08:54
Just an observation to nonreality...look at how many questions within the forum have zero replies. Also, check some of the ones with one or two replies where it is another person chiming in saying they need the same answer.

Well...

- sometimes questions have no answers. The problem is obscure enough that no one can reproduce it and has no ideas.

- sometimes the question is worded so rudely ("this software is a POS") that forum members would rather not respond.

Howard Passman
2008-05-29, 09:08
Well...

- sometimes questions have no answers. The problem is obscure enough that no one can reproduce it and has no ideas.

Sometimes, yes. In a phone call you find out for sure there isn't an answer. On a forum you wonder if anyone looked.


- sometimes the question is worded so rudely ("this software is a POS") that forum members would rather not respond.

Sometimes the answer can be worded as rudely :-)

maggior
2008-05-29, 09:25
On a forum you wonder if anyone looked.



Most forums, including this one, have a column that shows how many times a thread had been read. So, if you start a thread, you will see how many people have read your post. I can't recall seeing a new thread here that had virutally nobody read it.

I've had some questions go unanswered. It shouldn't be taken personally (unless the question was phrased agressively or unsultingly), it just means that nobody has the experience to help me.

These products and the environment that they operate in is so complex, that it is very easy to run into a scenario that nobody else here has.

mkanet
2008-05-29, 09:49
I would gladly pay for the software to work correctly. I have more than one PC. I dont use a squeezebox for many reasons, primary reason being its just not as good as some of the Softsqueeze-type clients out on DVR type UIs... doing everything from a simple remote (watching/recording TV/listening to music, sirius radio, etc)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/5.jpg

Its a strange coincidence that Slimserver was working fine until Logitech got a hold of the product.

I would love to know where you got your information from that thousands of people use SC 7.xx under vista and able to make the Squeezenetwork service work correctly. There isn't anything to configure or fix on my machines; as they work fine with at least a half a dozen internet based music services.

I would never call Slimserver 6.x.x a POS or a Joke; as they worked without any issues on many different types of machines.


Wow! you are using a completely free product which is unsupported by tech support (yet they still try and help you) and then you use words like "POS" and "joke"??

As Michael says in the other thread, splash some cash, get a squeezebox then if it doesn't work you probably have the right to complain if support can't help you.

There must be hundreds (if not thousands) of people who use SC on Vista with absolutely no issues, it has been completely rock steady for me ever since I switched to an early 7.0 release.

What exactly does a standard install of Vista look like anyway? I would suggest it is not a POS but there is actually something different with your PC which is failing to make it work.

radish
2008-05-29, 10:02
I'm sorry, I missed the other times you said it was "an addition" to tech support.
I didn't, but others did (on this very thread). It's always made extremely clear (IMHO) that the forum is not an official support channel and if you want help you should phone/email the helpdesk. There's even a sticky saying this at the top of the forum, and it's mentioned in help-request threads daily.



I believe the point I was making is actually the opposite in that tech support was almost non-existent, in my *personal* experience, and that forces people to use the forum for tech support and not for the intended purpose of most forums.

The quality of provided support is a different question, and certainly open to discussion (I have little to no experience here). Your implication, however, was that Logitech (and other companies) believe that the existence of a forum negates the need for formal support. That is certainly not true here, in fact from what I can tell the support operation has grown considerably since SD were bought.



I would never be so rude as to tell you to "get on with your life"
I wasn't telling you to do anything, I was simply pointing out that if the existence of the forum offended you (as it seemed to) you could just ignore it. But apologies for any offence, not intended.

mattybain
2008-05-29, 11:48
Its a strange coincidence that Slimserver was working fine until Logitech got a hold of the product.

I would love to know where you got your information from that thousands of people use SC 7.xx under vista and able to make the Squeezenetwork service work correctly.

As those of us who have been around for a while know there have always been issues with some of the releases of slimserver software. If I remember correctly there were loads of problems with 6.0 and wireless routers.

IMO there is no such thing as a standard install of anything when it comes to PC's, people have different routers, software, graphics cards, virus software etc etc. In fact it is amazing there aren't more problems. It is impossible to iron out 100% of the issues especially with opensource software like SC, it runs on Firefox, Safari, IE on Mac's,Windows and Linux.

I think you missed muy point (probably wasn't clear enough), 7.0 is not a POS as lots of people use it with no issues including with Vista. What you are trying to do is unsupported and unless you actually use the software as intended (with hardware) I don't know how(or why)you expect support to help