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patrija
2008-05-20, 19:20
Hi. I have a transporter that I'm trying to setup optimally and could use advice. Here's what I'm trying to do:

1) I have a 2-channel music room with Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers driven by an Audio Control 2-channel Avalon amplifier and the Gallo sub amp.

2) I have a 7.1-channel home theater room driven by an Audio Control Maestro 2e premap, Diva processor, 7-channel Savoy amplifier, and Boston Acoustic sub amp.

All equipment is in a central rack with speaker cable runs to the music room and home theater.

My goal is to send the best audio signal to the Gallo Ref 3.1's in the music room, while hopefully being able to play the same music in the home theater.

What I'm planning to do is:

MUSIC ROOM:
- Transporter XLR to Avalon to Ref 3.1
- Transporter RCA to SubAmp to Ref 3.1 Second Coil

HOME THEATER:
- Transporter Digital Out to Maestro M2e / Diva / Savoy to home theater speakers.

I think my biggest assumption is that the XLR, RCA, and digital outs can all run at the same time. I've read in the forums that the XLR and RCA work at the same time, but didn't see anything on the digital outs.

I think the biggest downside is that for now I'll be relying on the Transporter's volume control, which will affect volume in both the music room and the home theater?

Does this sound right? I plan to try this tomorrow with my systems installer. Thank you for any thoughts!

PS - This is a "temporary" setup for a few months. Eventually I'll want to also include a Crestron PAD8-A to run the audio to various whole house speakers. That might get real confusing....

st2000
2008-05-20, 19:50
patrija wrote:
> Hi. I have a transporter that I'm trying to setup optimally and could
> use advice. Here's what I'm trying to do:
>
> 1) I have a 2-channel music room with Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
> speakers driven by an Audio Control 2-channel Avalon amplifier and the
> Gallo sub amp.
>
> 2) I have a 7.1-channel home theater room driven by an Audio Control
> Maestro 2e premap, Diva processor, 7-channel Savoy amplifier, and
> Boston Acoustic sub amp.
>
> All equipment is in a central rack with speaker cable runs to the music
> room and home theater.
>
> My goal is to send the best audio signal to the Gallo Ref 3.1's in the
> music room, while hopefully being able to play the same music in the
> home theater.
>
> What I'm planning to do is:
>
> MUSIC ROOM:
> - Transporter XLR to Avalon to Ref 3.1
> - Transporter RCA to SubAmp to Ref 3.1 Second Coil
>
> HOME THEATER:
> - Transporter Digital Out to Maestro M2e / Diva / Savoy to home theater
> speakers.
>
> I think my biggest assumption is that the XLR, RCA, and digital outs
> can all run at the same time. I've read in the forums that the XLR and
> RCA work at the same time, but didn't see anything on the digital
> outs.
>
> I think the biggest downside is that for now I'll be relying on the
> Transporter's volume control, which will affect volume in both the
> music room and the home theater?
>
> Does this sound right? I plan to try this tomorrow with my systems
> installer. Thank you for any thoughts!
>
> PS - This is a "temporary" setup for a few months. Eventually I'll want
> to also include a Crestron PAD8-A to run the audio to various whole
> house speakers. That might get real confusing....

I don't think I would notice, but you might:

It almost sounds like you want to play music on both systems at the same
time. Have you given thought to the chance the transporter's D/A
converters working a bit differently than the home theater's D/A converters?

Or, to put it another way, there's a reason there is only *one* HDTV
with it's volume turned up in "today's" TV show rooms.

Also, when ever someone talks about different rooms "ground loops" cross
my mind. I always say there isn't a difference between electrical or
optical SPDIF (or TOSLINK or what ever you call it), but you might stick
to the optical for the longer run just in case (assuming the transporter
has optical out).

One last point (promise), I don't buy into the expensive optical fibers.
What we do with SPDIF is no where near critical enough to warrant
paying more then a few dollars per meter of cable.

patrija
2008-05-21, 10:20
Hi. Yes, I'd like the ability to run both systems at the same time and playing the same music.

My main listening area I want to run analog signals from the transporter. I plan to use the transporter's XLR and RCA at the same time.

In the home theater I use the Diva for digital processing, so I'm planning to use a digital connection from the transporter.

Question: Do the XLR, RCA, and Digital all output at the same time? I've read the XLR/RCA do, but have not found anything on the digital

Question: I believe my only downside to the above plan is lack of volume control between the transporter and the music room amplifier. For now I'll have to use the transporter volume control.

iPhone
2008-05-21, 11:32
Hi. Yes, I'd like the ability to run both systems at the same time and playing the same music.

My main listening area I want to run analog signals from the transporter. I plan to use the transporter's XLR and RCA at the same time.

In the home theater I use the Diva for digital processing, so I'm planning to use a digital connection from the transporter.

Question: Do the XLR, RCA, and Digital all output at the same time? I've read the XLR/RCA do, but have not found anything on the digital

Question: I believe my only downside to the above plan is lack of volume control between the transporter and the music room amplifier. For now I'll have to use the transporter volume control.

The real beauty of the TP/SB is that all the outputs are active with no messing about with settings or selecting an output.

I also have to side with the feeling that the DAC in the TP would probably be better then your HT Rxcr. Try using the analog outs into the AUX or CD input of your Rxcr then listen to the digital input into the Rxcr to see which gives a better level of enjoyment. If it is just for background sound during a party or before or after a movie then just go digital.

I have an older HT Rxcr with an older Burr-Brown Chip processing the Toslink input. Its a good chip for the HT Rxcr but anybody can hear the difference between it and feeding the Rxcr with the analog out of the TP. The analog out has a sharp accurate sound stage with more defined bass and clearer treble.

st2000
2008-05-21, 17:35
patrija wrote:
> Hi. Yes, I'd like the ability to run both systems at the same time and
> playing the same music.
>
> My main listening area I want to run analog signals from the
> transporter. I plan to use the transporter's XLR and RCA at the same
> time.
>
> In the home theater I use the Diva for digital processing, so I'm
> planning to use a digital connection from the transporter.
>
> Question: Do the XLR, RCA, and Digital all output at the same time?
> I've read the XLR/RCA do, but have not found anything on the digital
>
> Question: I believe my only downside to the above plan is lack of
> volume control between the transporter and the music room amplifier.
> For now I'll have to use the transporter volume control.
>
>

You are missing the point I am trying to make:

Will there be a noticeable difference between the out put of the DAC on
the transporter and your home-theater-amp? I'm not talking about how
good it sounds - I'm talking about delay.

There's bound to be some difference - will that be a problem? It might
sound like you are in a stadium. Or it might not be noticeable.

Look, the DAC is a computer thing. One chip maker might buffer up 1024
bytes and another 2048. If you are sampling at 42KHz thats a difference
of about 1/40 of a second. Not much. But I'm just guessing at the
numbers. If the difference was more like 32K bytes verses 64K, now the
difference is more like 3/4 of a second.

Also, do you rip to FLAC? The transporter should be able to directly
decode FLAC, but what will the transporter output on the SPDIF port?
Anyone know? I would think FLAC isn't supported much if at all in the
commercial world.

Try it, see if it works.

mvalera
2008-05-21, 21:29
patrija wrote:
> Hi. Yes, I'd like the ability to run both systems at the same time and
> playing the same music.
>
> My main listening area I want to run analog signals from the
> transporter. I plan to use the transporter's XLR and RCA at the same
> time.
>
> In the home theater I use the Diva for digital processing, so I'm
> planning to use a digital connection from the transporter.
>
> Question: Do the XLR, RCA, and Digital all output at the same time?
> I've read the XLR/RCA do, but have not found anything on the digital
>
> Question: I believe my only downside to the above plan is lack of
> volume control between the transporter and the music room amplifier.
> For now I'll have to use the transporter volume control.
>
>

You are missing the point I am trying to make:

Will there be a noticeable difference between the out put of the DAC on
the transporter and your home-theater-amp? I'm not talking about how
good it sounds - I'm talking about delay.

There's bound to be some difference - will that be a problem? It might
sound like you are in a stadium. Or it might not be noticeable.

Look, the DAC is a computer thing. One chip maker might buffer up 1024
bytes and another 2048. If you are sampling at 42KHz thats a difference
of about 1/40 of a second. Not much. But I'm just guessing at the
numbers. If the difference was more like 32K bytes verses 64K, now the
difference is more like 3/4 of a second.

Also, do you rip to FLAC? The transporter should be able to directly
decode FLAC, but what will the transporter output on the SPDIF port?
Anyone know? I would think FLAC isn't supported much if at all in the
commercial world.

Try it, see if it works.

The digital outs of all our products are always in unencoded PCM format. The file is always decoded first, before it heads out of either the digital or analog outputs.

st2000
2008-05-22, 08:27
mvalera wrote:
> st2000;304093 Wrote:
>> patrija wrote:
>>> Hi. Yes, I'd like the ability to run both systems at the same time
>> and
>>> playing the same music.
>>>
>>> My main listening area I want to run analog signals from the
>>> transporter. I plan to use the transporter's XLR and RCA at the same
>>> time.
>>>
>>> In the home theater I use the Diva for digital processing, so I'm
>>> planning to use a digital connection from the transporter.
>>>
>>> Question: Do the XLR, RCA, and Digital all output at the same time?
>>> I've read the XLR/RCA do, but have not found anything on the digital
>>>
>>> Question: I believe my only downside to the above plan is lack of
>>> volume control between the transporter and the music room amplifier.
>>> For now I'll have to use the transporter volume control.
>>>
>>>
>> You are missing the point I am trying to make:
>>
>> Will there be a noticeable difference between the out put of the DAC on
>>
>> the transporter and your home-theater-amp? I'm not talking about how
>> good it sounds - I'm talking about delay.
>>
>> There's bound to be some difference - will that be a problem? It might
>>
>> sound like you are in a stadium. Or it might not be noticeable.
>>
>> Look, the DAC is a computer thing. One chip maker might buffer up 1024
>>
>> bytes and another 2048. If you are sampling at 42KHz thats a
>> difference
>> of about 1/40 of a second. Not much. But I'm just guessing at the
>> numbers. If the difference was more like 32K bytes verses 64K, now the
>>
>> difference is more like 3/4 of a second.
>>
>> Also, do you rip to FLAC? The transporter should be able to directly
>> decode FLAC, but what will the transporter output on the SPDIF port?
>> Anyone know? I would think FLAC isn't supported much if at all in the
>> commercial world.
>>
>> Try it, see if it works.
>
> The digital outs of all our products are always in unencoded PCM
> format. The file is always decoded first, before it heads out of the
> output in either digital or analog.

Still, no deterrently the two DACs will perform identically w.r.t. time
- right?

Interesting, so explain to me where the transcoding (decompression) is
taking place given I start with a FLAC. From what you are saying, it
happens on the Trasporter (i.e. the SqueezeBoxes) and not the server.

Sooo, if I only had an SB1, even though I rip in FLAC, the server will
transcode (compress it) to an mp3, serve it up to the SB1, then the SB1
will transcode it (decompress it) back to PCM... And I don't get any of
the benefits of Lossless Compression. i.e. There is no such thing as
"pass through" on any of the SqueezeBox products w.r.t. the digital
signal out on the SPDIF port?

patrija
2008-05-23, 15:57
Hi. I'm in heaven!!!

Music room is ROCKIN' with new Gallo Reference 3.1's! Connections are transporter XLR to the Avalon, and RCA to Gallo SubAmp.

Home Theater is using the toslink into a Maestro M2e and Diva.

VERY HAPPY!

ceejay
2008-05-23, 23:32
Still, no deterrently the two DACs will perform identically w.r.t. time
- right?

Interesting, so explain to me where the transcoding (decompression) is
taking place given I start with a FLAC. From what you are saying, it
happens on the Trasporter (i.e. the SqueezeBoxes) and not the server.

Sooo, if I only had an SB1, even though I rip in FLAC, the server will
transcode (compress it) to an mp3, serve it up to the SB1, then the SB1
will transcode it (decompress it) back to PCM... And I don't get any of
the benefits of Lossless Compression. i.e. There is no such thing as
"pass through" on any of the SqueezeBox products w.r.t. the digital
signal out on the SPDIF port?

While you are right that there is a possibility of a delay between the analog and digital outputs, in practice it is very small - almost certainly less than the difference in delay you would get from moving some speakers around. As OP has found!

In Squeezeboxes (which includes the Transporter for this discussion) the big buffering takes place on the input end (the network port coming in). So synchronising the output of a Squeezebox with, say, a video player on the server is pretty much impossible. There are smarts in the SBs which allow synchronisation of multiple SBs, though.

As for where transcoding takes place - it can be either on the server or on the player, according to how it is configured. Actually if you were playing a FLAC file to an SB1 you'd get better results, network permitting, if you had the server transcode to WAV for the SB1 to play directly. That would be lossless throughout. For SB2 onwards you'd send FLAC to the player and let the player decode to PCM.

Whether this is what you mean by "pass through" I have no idea....

HTH
Ceejay