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mflint
2008-05-07, 12:11
Hi all,

I know there are probably definitive answers in the forum somewhere, but I can't find them!

I'd like to connect a non-wireless device to the network using an SBR (or an SB3) as a bridge. So two questions:


Do I need a crossover ethernet cable, or will a normal cable do the job? I thought I'd read that the SBR is auto-sensing (so a crossover isn't needed)
How to enable bridging on the SBR? I tried Robin's Net-UDAP tool, but struggled with the settings... should I persevere with Net-UDAP, or is there an easier way?

Thanks folks :)

Matthew

radish
2008-05-07, 12:39
Do I need a crossover ethernet cable, or will a normal cable do the job? I thought I'd read that the SBR is auto-sensing (so a crossover isn't needed)

If you use a non-crossover at least one of the devices (either end) must be autosensing. The SBR is, the SB3 is not.


How to enable bridging on the SBR? I tried Robin's Net-UDAP tool, but struggled with the settings... should I persevere with Net-UDAP, or is there an easier way?

No easier way AFAIK. It works very well on an SB3, never tried on an SBR.

mflint
2008-05-07, 13:52
If you use a non-crossover at least one of the devices (either end) must be autosensing. The SBR is, the SB3 is not.

No easier way AFAIK. It works very well on an SB3, never tried on an SBR.

That's great - Cheers, Mr Radish. I can confirm that the SBR *can* bridge with a normal (non-crossover) cable.

For anyone else wanting to do the same: I set up the SBR as normal (with the SBC) so it could connect to my wireless network. Then pressed the front button til the light flashed red.

Then connected the SBR via ethernet cable to my router, started Net-UDAP, discovered the SBR. The previously-configured settings were still intact. Then:

set bridging=1
save_data
reset
... was all that was needed to complete the bridge. While the SBR was rebooting, I switched the ethernet cable for one which connects the SBR directly to a shiny new Popcorn Hour (http://www.popcornhour.com/).

(For some reason, Net-UDAP couldn't discover the SBR unless it was hard-wired to my router)

Thanks again (and thanks to Robin B for the Net-UDAP utility!),
Matthew :)

GlenL
2008-05-07, 15:41
FWIW Both PS3 and Xbox 360 work just fine connected to a SB3 with a standard (i.e non crossover) RJ45 cable.

Robin Bowes
2008-05-10, 06:09
mflint wrote:
> (For some reason, Net-UDAP couldn't discover the SBR unless it was
> hard-wired to my router)

I wrote the tool specifically to configure a factory-supplied (i.e. no
config) SBR from a PC without requiring a SBC. Until the SBR is
configured, it cannot connect to any wireless network (the SBC sets up
an AdHoc wireless network to connect wirelessly to the SBR) so you won't
be able to connect to it wirelessly from a PC.

Even when configured, the UDAP protocol is UDP-based so the UDAP source
(PC) and UDAP destination (SBR) have to be on the same network segment.
It is possible that it might work across a wireless network, i.e. PC +
SBR connected to the same wireless network, but I've not tested that and
don't intend to.

When I get round to releasing it officially, I will write some
instructions which will begin something like:

Plug SBR into same switch/router as PC
(rest of instructions)

R.

peter
2008-05-11, 06:37
Robin Bowes wrote:
> mflint wrote:
>
>> (For some reason, Net-UDAP couldn't discover the SBR unless it was
>> hard-wired to my router)
>>
>
> I wrote the tool specifically to configure a factory-supplied (i.e. no
> config) SBR from a PC without requiring a SBC. Until the SBR is
> configured, it cannot connect to any wireless network (the SBC sets up
> an AdHoc wireless network to connect wirelessly to the SBR) so you won't
> be able to connect to it wirelessly from a PC.
>
> Even when configured, the UDAP protocol is UDP-based so the UDAP source
> (PC) and UDAP destination (SBR) have to be on the same network segment.
>
There's no causality in that. UDP works fine over the Internet. You
probably mean it's broadcast based which does pretty much limit it to a
network segment.

> It is possible that it might work across a wireless network, i.e. PC +
> SBR connected to the same wireless network, but I've not tested that and
> don't intend to.
>
> When I get round to releasing it officially, I will write some
> instructions which will begin something like:
>
> Plug SBR into same switch/router as PC
> (rest of instructions)
>

Great work!

Regards,
Peter

Robin Bowes
2008-05-11, 15:30
Peter wrote:
> Robin Bowes wrote:
>> Even when configured, the UDAP protocol is UDP-based so the UDAP source
>> (PC) and UDAP destination (SBR) have to be on the same network segment.
>>
> There's no causality in that. UDP works fine over the Internet. You
> probably mean it's broadcast based which does pretty much limit it to a
> network segment.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

R.

jrfuda
2008-05-16, 07:24
I too have use the great UDP tool to enable bridging on my SBR. It was very easy to do, easier than I thought, in fact. However, I've run into a problem.

U'm using the SBR to bridge my Dish VIP-622 to my network.

Bridging works fine if the LAN cable is unplugged from the SBR while it is powering up. the SBR powers-up (after being unplugged from power, not just the light being off) and it looks for the wireless network and SC and is fine. I can then plug in the LAN cable and my VIP-622 gets network connectivity. However, if the ethernet cable is plugged-in during power cycleing, the SBR tries to connect via LAN instead of wireless, resulting in both the SBR and my 622 being without a connection. My SBC still sees the SBR, but the SBR cannot connect to a music source since it's not really on any network.

I've set bridging=1 and interface=0, but the SBR still wants to try and connect via the wired connection if it's plugged in to something.

My SBR stays plugged in to power all the time (as most folk's do, I imagine), however - last night when I left my 622 connected to it with everything working (SBR connected to network wirelessly and 622 bridged through SBR), when I woke up, the SBR was trying to connect via LAN again. The only thing I can think of is that my wireless single dropped for a split second during the night and the SBR reverted back to trying to connect via a wired connection, just like it does when I power t up with the wired connection connected.

Has anyone else seen this behavior in their SBR? Could this be a bug. I have the lastest 7.0.1 release software and associated firmwares running (release date was 14 May, I think).

My SBR is on the fringes of my wireless network, mostly due to heavy congestion from neighbors, with all overlapping channels taking (networks with channels 2, 6, 9 and 11 are within range of my house according to netstumbler, so the entire spectrum is covered since only channels 1, 6 and 11 can coeexist with ZERO interference), so my wireless signal where my SBR is fluctuates between 10% and 51%, depending on whose network's doing what at any given time... despite this I've never had any stuttering in music playback (256kbps MP3s and internet radio is all I play, so no big bandwidth requirements) or other connectivity issues in my home with eight wireless devices (2 laptops, 2 cameras, SB3, SBR, SBC, and another wireless bridge) running 24/7.

Any thought on why my SBR is behaving this way? Should I post a bug report?

Thanks

jrfuda
2008-05-19, 07:39
Anyone else seeing this behavior?

joncooper
2008-05-29, 04:15
Bit of an old thread hijack ... but...

I can't find any guides on using the Duet receiver as a bridge - will a standard RJ45 cable work when using it with an xbox360? Or do I need a x-over cable? Does anything need to be configured prior to using it as a bridge?

radish
2008-05-29, 06:05
will a standard RJ45 cable work when using it with an xbox360?

Yes.



Does anything need to be configured prior to using it as a bridge?
See above - you'll need to use the Net-UDAP tool to configure it.

jrfuda
2008-05-29, 06:45
Here's a little quick guide to setting-up the SBR to server as a bridge. This procedure is what I arrived at after having the problems I mentioned earlier in the thread:

1. Give the SBR a hard reset (held down button for 10 seconds, or whatever it takes)
2. Stop SC so UDAP will be able to connect after I configure with SBC
3. Configure SBR with SBC
4. Connect to the SBR with net-UDAP, which is possible becuae SC is stopped.
5. Use the following commands in Net-UDAP (assuming the SBR you want to configure is listed as "1" after the discover command, otherwise, substitute the SBR's number for "1"):

discover
configure 1
set bridging=1
save_data
reset

6. Restart SC
7. Confirm SC and the SBC can both see your SBR
8. Plug the hardware to be bridged into the SBR and check its connection

That's it. This was the only for me to get bridging to work without the SBR trying to revert to a wired connection on restart. In the week that I've had it working, the bridged hardware has never lost its connection, so It's an excellent solution.

As a sidebar, I've ordered some Homeplug AV devices due to more and more wireless interference as my neighborhood grows. I experienced my first dropouts during playback a few days ago - and I'm only playing 256kbps media - due to my SBR being on the fringes of my wireless network (my neighbors networks are actually registering higher strenghts than my own in that part of the house accoridng to NetStumbler) Right now there are 4 networks in range of mine, and my neighborhood is only 10% built (with the house immedialtly to my left and the three to my rear still under construction) so once they're built and occupied, I'm sure it'll be worse...

NathanielK
2008-06-06, 21:20
I'm trying to set up my new SBC to bridge to my Pioneer Blu-ray player. I have been reading this thread and Robin's wiki page and I'm wondering if there are unspoken steps or gotchas that I am missing. Here is what I've done so far:

download and install ActiveState Perl 5.10

download and install tortoise SVN

restart windows per tortoise install instructions

create a folder at c:\udap_thing

checkout the code from http://projects.robinbowes.com/svn/Net-UDAP/trunk/

navigate to c:\udap_thing\scripts and run udap_shell.pl

in the shell window, I can execute the help and list commands, but when I try discover I get a huge amount of text. I copied it to notepad and it seems to be this, repeated over and over:

Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 57.
Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 67.
Supplied string has length0(expected length: 6) at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/
Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP.pm line 296
Use of uninitialized value $mac in concatenation (.) or string at C:/UDAP_Thing/
scripts/../src/Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP.pm line 297.
info: adv_discovery response received from
Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 57.
Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 67.
Supplied string has length0(expected length: 6) at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/
Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP.pm line 358
mac not found in msg at C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Shell
.pm line 156

I tried with the red light blinking on the SBR, and I also tried setting up the SBR from the SBC and then plugging the SBR into my router directly. I assume I'm missing some compile step or something?

radish
2008-06-06, 21:29
From what it says on Robin's page I think you need Perl 5.8 not 5.1. The errors you're seeing look like they could be caused by that. Give it a go - the download is on the same page as 5.1.

NathanielK
2008-06-07, 00:15
I uninstalled the 5.10.0.1003 distribution and installed 5.8.8.822

Now when I click on the udap_shell.pl, a command prompt window flashes on the screen for a second and goes away.

Is there a different distribution of Active Perl I should look for?

Robin Bowes
2008-06-07, 07:33
NathanielK wrote:

> in the shell window, I can execute the help and list commands, but when
> I try discover I get a huge amount of text. I copied it to notepad and
> it seems to be this, repeated over and over:
>
> Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
> -UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 57.
> Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
> -UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 67.
> Supplied string has length0(expected length: 6) at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/
> Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP.pm line 296
> Use of uninitialized value $mac in concatenation (.) or string at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/
> scripts/../src/Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP.pm line 297.
> info: adv_discovery response received from
> Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
> -UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 57.
> Use of uninitialized value $rawstr in length at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net
> -UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Util.pm line 67.
> Supplied string has length0(expected length: 6) at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/
> Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP.pm line 358
> mac not found in msg at
> C:/UDAP_Thing/scripts/../src/Net-UDAP/lib/Net/UDAP/Shell
> .pm line 156
>
> I tried with the red light blinking on the SBR, and I also tried
> setting up the SBR from the SBC and then plugging the SBR into my
> router directly. I assume I'm missing some compile step or something?

Nope, you're doing everything right, as far as I can tell. I'm not sure
what's going on there. The code works fine with perl 5.10.

Can you modify line 38 of Log.pm to:

level => 'debug',

and re-run the discover?

Please create a ticket at http://projects.robinbowes.com/Net-UDAP/trac
and paste the output. You'll need to register first.

Please include details of what platform you're running on, your network
topology, and configuration.

Thanks,

R.

NathanielK
2008-06-08, 07:48
Sorry I didn't post back sooner. After the first time having trouble with Perl 5.8, I uninstalled it (I had actually installed it over 5.10 the first time, rushing and not thinking and being rather frustrated), rebooted windows twice, and then reinstalled from the msi. In the meantime, I had moved the SBR back downstairs and restored it's settings with the SBC so that it was connected to the stereo. Low and behold, when I ran the shell, if worked exactly like the short instructions in the post by jrfuda; even discovering and configuring over my wireless network. Then I had to struggle with the Pioneer, which only connects to WMP11, at least out of what I have. It wouldn't talk nice to my computer until I went into it's IP configuration and set a static.

So everything was working at 6:00 am Saturday and I finally went to sleep. Then, Saturday evening we have a power failure. The SBR/SBC don't seem to play well in power failures, probably because the router goes down and resets all the IPs as things come back up, but the SBR never goes off since it's on batteries. By the time the power came on and I got the music playing, I just didn't feel like messing with the BDP to see if it was still on the network or not.

I'd love to help you out with the debugging, Robin, but by the time I saw your post it was working. For what it's worth, I have Windows XP Pro sp2 on my desktop that is running SC7.0.1; I have a Linksys 4-port/Wireless-G router that is set to 192.168.101.1 doing DHCP; the computer upstairs is wired, there is a laptop and a Linksys game adapter hooked up to my Playstation in the living room, and now the SBC/SBR plus the new BDP in the living room as well. There is also another laptop in the basement on wireless.

I'm really glad it's working, and thank you very much for the tool and to everyone for the help. I still feel that Logitech should step up to the plate and support the feature fully; especially if they are going to include it in marketing materials that are copied and quoted by sites that sell the product.

Robin Bowes
2008-06-08, 10:58
NathanielK wrote:
> Low and behold, when I ran the shell, if worked exactly like the
> short instructions in the post by jrfuda; even discovering and
> configuring over my wireless network.

Glad it's working.

It sounds like this was a network issue, and the scripts are not
entirely bulletproof, i.e. they assume certain operations won't fail,
e.g the network calls.

I ought to add additional checks.

R.

radish
2008-06-08, 16:00
I still feel that Logitech should step up to the plate and support the feature fully; especially if they are going to include it in marketing materials that are copied and quoted by sites that sell the product.
Where is it mentioned in marketing materials? That's probably a mistake, it's not supported in the SBR.

NathanielK
2008-06-08, 22:05
Radish,

I have not seen any of the "Official" Logitech marketing materials, but when I was comparing the various network music players, I read several positive reviews of the Squeezebox/Duet that mentioned it's ability to bridge and connect a wired-only device like an xBox, Playstation, or other device to a wireless network. None of them mentioned the fact that it was an undocumented and basically unsupported feature. When I got my unit and looked for bridging in the set-up and then the user manual, I found nothing which is why I posted my first message in the beginner's section. I just now did a quick google search and found the following seven reviews in the first page of google results for "Squeezebox ethernet bridge":

http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/squeezebox-4

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-q9YMPXJuOjG/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=596DUET&tp=7046&tab=detailed_info

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-audio-receivers-dars/slim-devices-squeezebox-version/1995-6470_7-31884366.html

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/08/1757259

http://www.maclife.com/squeezebox_3

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/84914

http://www.trustedreviews.com/multimedia/review/2008/04/10/Logitech-Squeezebox-Duet-Network-Music-System/p1

I find it very hard to believe that all of these different sources would mention the bridging feature yet not a single one acknowledges the fact that it is unsupported in the interface or documentation for the product.

Robin Bowes
2008-06-09, 04:23
NathanielK wrote:

> I find it very hard to believe that all of these different sources
> would mention the bridging feature yet not a single one acknowledges
> the fact that it is unsupported in the interface or documentation for
> the product.

Nathaniel,

From what I can gather, bridging is supported with out using Net-UDAP.

You simply:

1. set up SBR wirelessly
2. plug device to be networked into SNR RJ45 port

However, it seems that if SBR detects a wired network connection when it
starts it will attempt to connect using it.

Note: I've not tested any of this, it's just what I have gleaned from
reading others' experiences on the forums.

R.

radish
2008-06-09, 07:13
I find it very hard to believe that all of these different sources would mention the bridging feature yet not a single one acknowledges the fact that it is unsupported in the interface or documentation for the product.

Many of those links are referring to the SB3/Classic which does support bridging (see http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html) - it's been a long standing feature in the Squeezebox product line. That also probably accounts for some of the other confusion, reviewers familiar with previous SBs assumed it was supported in the SBR. Just looks like sloppy writing to me.

Anyhow, we're lucky that whilst not supported it does work just fine with a little fiddling :)