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View Full Version : I'm a bit disappointed...



Cloggy
2008-04-20, 09:46
Let me explain what happened: I like to listen very much to a Brazilian radio station, Radio Guaiba FM 102.3 FM Mhz, because of they relaxed way of music (and to please my Brazilian wife..). I started with a REVO Blik Internet Radio but that radio could not keep the link up between the radio and my WAP..after about 60-80 minutes, it lost the connection (WiFi strength around 88% !!!) and sometimes it was even blocked, so the only way to recover from this was to disconnect and connect the power cable. I complained about this and got a replacement radio that suffered from the same problems so I returned it and got my money back. This radio was not stable enough to leave the lab..

Searching on the Internet I came across a Logitech Squeezebox and after I verified that that equipment was using a Radio Website (RadioTime) that offers Radio Guaiba FM 101.3 Mhz I decided to purchase the Squeezebox. The good news is that this radio never lost the connection since I installed it about 1 week ago, but the (very) disappointing thing is that I haven't been able to play Radio Guaiba FM 101.3 Mhz. Whenever I select that station on RadioTime, I get a "400 bad request error". I reported this to RadioTime and the only (quick) answers I got so far: "We are looking into this","Have patience","I don't know why it is not working". So, not very encouraging.

I looked around on the internet and found several URLs for this radio station and decided to enter them manually in my Favorites. The ones I used are:
mms://fm.radioguaiba.com.br/guaibaFm
http://www.radioguaiba.com.br/aovivo/New/guaibaFm.asx

But playing both Favorites give the error message: "400 Bad Request" on the display of the Squeezebox.

So, I don't know where the problem now is: is Radio Guaiba transmitting streams that are not standard (which I doubt) of is there a problem in the Squeezebox or the Squeezenetwork server that makes the connection? I tend to believe the last two. If that cannot be resolved, I'm considering to return the Squeezebox and ask for a refund.

So bottom line, RadioTime is not very helpful so far and the Squeezebox is still not playing this radio station..and this is, I hope you'll understand, very disappointing. I wonder if I shouldn't go back to REVO and accept the inconveniences and keep my fingers crossed that the manufacturer will be able to solve the glitches with their internet radio in the near future as this radio does play what we want to listen to.

Any hints, tips or suggestions to get my problem resolved are very welcome and highly appreciated.

Note that I haven't tried to get Radio Guaiba playing using SqueezeCenter as I do not want to have the PC powered on while playing this radio station in the living room connected to my audio equipment.

Also note that I dropped a message to the Dutch Support site of Logitech last Friday afternoon and are still awaiting for their reaction.

Thanks in advance.

Rgds..Dick
The Netherlands

bpa
2008-04-20, 09:55
I think the problem is the station is only supporting the "mms" protocol and not the "http". Unfortunately SB does not support this protocol over Squeezenetwork.

I think it is easy for the station to support http - just check a box - you could send them an e-mail.

It will only play on SB using SqueezeCenter but you will need to disable native WMA support.

Cloggy
2008-04-20, 12:02
Hi, many thanks for your quick reply. I'm not s sure they only transmit in mms format. All other links I have found were HTTP urls (but in the background they might be changed into mms format?). I can ask my wife to send a message to them.

However, If I enter a mms or http URL that starts with a space character in my Favorites, I get the following error message: "Error -- Invalid URL. Please enter an http:// or mms:// URL for the favorite" so this implies for me that mms is supported.

Regards...Dick

andyg
2008-04-20, 12:10
Yeah unfortunately it appears this station doesn't support HTTP streaming. I bet they'd enable it if you asked them.

Cloggy
2008-04-20, 13:55
So, you mean to say that Squeezebox does not support mms streaming despite the error message that would suggest it does? Does it also mean that reciva.com "transforms" the streaming mode into HTTP or the REVO Blik Internet radio simply supports this type of streaming mode?

Note that I sent an email to Radio Guaiba asking for an HTTP streaming link. I'll update this post with their comments.

Are there any plans to add reciva.com or other Internet Radio station transmitters to be supported by the Squeezebox?

Cloggy
2008-04-22, 03:33
Obviously there doesn't seem to be a solution for my problem due to the inability of the Squeezebox to process mms URLs and the lack of communication by RadioTime (they do not respond to email messages).

Yet I think it's strange that this Squeezebox cannot properly play this station, this is hard to believe for me.

I will wait one more week for a possible solution but I'm afraid that I have no other choice than replace this Squeezebox by another Internet Radio device that does play/process mms streams. I found one but I'm going to the shop first before purchasing it. So this Squeezebox, despite the nice design, has some lack of functionality, and therefor is quite a disappointing experience for me.

Rgds...Dick

Siduhe
2008-04-22, 04:17
It's not the Squeezebox per se, that can normally handle mms streams via an http transport (which requires a connection to Squeezecenter).

The issue arises because you want to listen to the stream via Squeezenetwork, which relies on the Slim Devices servers rather than connected to SC. Squeezenetwork is a network server provided for free by Slim Devices. I wouldn't describe it as core functionality but an add-on (although I'm aware that a number of people like to do most/all of their listening via Squeezenetwork). Those of us who have had SBs for a while remember when it didn't even exist.

Obviously you should take the device back if it doesn't suit what you want and need, but it's not necessarily the hardware that is the problem - it's the limitation of the free add-on service you want to utilise.

This problem does crop up from time to time and is normally resolved by asking the radio station to switch on http:// streaming - they normally have just forgotten. Hope you have some luck with them.

Cloggy
2008-04-22, 05:18
Hi, thanks for your positive reply. The change of the streaming URL is my last hope..I'll ask my wife to give them a call later today (she is Brazilian so they will understand her Portuguese much better...:-) )

bpa
2008-04-22, 05:30
Tell the station if they enable http - then user will be able to play their station in the office as mms URLs are frequently blocked by office firewalls.

Cloggy
2008-04-22, 07:23
My wife just spoke to Radio Guaiba in Porto Alegre and they told her that they indeed transmit in mms format and will not change or make it available in http format.

So, bottom line, without RadioTime responding to any email message, I'm going to return the Squeezebox and find myself a device that does play Radio Guaiba FM 101.3 Mhz....but it remains strange to me...

andyg
2008-04-22, 07:25
Interesting. You could always tell them you want to listen at work where they only have an HTTP proxy, but now you will have to listen to a competing station. :)

Cloggy
2008-04-22, 07:35
Nice try...have you ever been in Brasil? If so, you will know that probably the only way to get the HTTP url is ...to buy it.

Cloggy
2008-04-29, 15:08
The problem has been solved.....by replacing the SB by a Noxon2 audio for iPod. This devices makes use of v-Tuner and now that radio stations (and even more) are played perfectly. It has cost me about 2 weeks, a lot of irritations, frustrations and hours of missed sleep but now I have at least an Internet Radio that I like. Although, the design of the SB looks much better, I prefer the quality of the Noxon2..sorry.. ;-).

maggior
2008-04-30, 08:48
Hopefully you won't require much in the way of support for the Noxon2:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/08/terratecs-noxon-2-radio-music-server-now-does-ipods/#comments

Cloggy
2008-04-30, 09:17
Well, I can react on the comments about supporting WEP only..the Noxon2 does support WPA and WPA2. Besides that, the "complaints' are almost one year old, who knows it is still the same?

The support that I have been given by Logitech and RadioTime is not sparkling either....none of the 2 have given a solution after 2 weeks and a simple replacement of the SB by a Noxon2 resolved my issues. (So, if anybody complains about support of Terratec then I have another one about Logitech and RadioTime.)

So far, everything is working fine and, what's surprising me, the Noxon2 finds channels must faster than the SB. Maybe this is because the SqueezeNetwork sits in between the streaming broadcaster and the SB?

PS. Finding negative experiences about support is always easier than finding positive ones..it's just human's nature..ask a person to come up with 5 positive and 5 negative things about a particular person. I bet you that the negative things are mentioned first and comes faster than the positive ones (and maybe cannot even come to5 for the positive things). ;-).

Siduhe
2008-04-30, 10:22
At the end of the day, you've found something that works for you - which is great. The Duet isn't all things for all people, after all - I wouldn't buy it to use just as an internet radio, for example. As you say, if the Noxon works for you, you won't have a need for the support and I completely agree with the 'easier to find negative things to say' point.

All the best.

maggior
2008-04-30, 11:45
Well, I can react on the comments about supporting WEP only..the Noxon2 does support WPA and WPA2. Besides that, the "complaints' are almost one year old, who knows it is still the same?

The support that I have been given by Logitech and RadioTime is not sparkling either....none of the 2 have given a solution after 2 weeks and a simple replacement of the SB by a Noxon2 resolved my issues. (So, if anybody complains about support of Terratec then I have another one about Logitech and RadioTime.)

So far, everything is working fine and, what's surprising me, the Noxon2 finds channels must faster than the SB. Maybe this is because the SqueezeNetwork sits in between the streaming broadcaster and the SB?

PS. Finding negative experiences about support is always easier than finding positive ones..it's just human's nature..ask a person to come up with 5 positive and 5 negative things about a particular person. I bet you that the negative things are mentioned first and comes faster than the positive ones (and maybe cannot even come to5 for the positive things). ;-).


Different strokes for different folks. If the Noxos2 meets your needs better than the the SlimDevices products, good for you. Glad you found a solution that suits you. At least you got to try the SB risk free and were able to return it no-questions-asked when you found it didn't meet your needs.

I had never heard of the Noxon2, so out of curiosity I Googled it. One of the top hits was the link that I posted. I wasn't trying to find negative comments, they were just there at the top of my search.

The support provided here by both forum members and Logitech employees is top notch! A good number of people here, including a Logitech employee, put forth real effort to try to solve the issue at hand. Unfortunately, the SlimDevices product didn't fit your particular need. That is not the fault of the support provided here.

Happy Listening.

toby10
2008-05-01, 11:22
And like the others I'm glad you found a solution. :)

But, to be fare, it's your requested station that is causing you problems as they only make their stream available through 3 methods:
- on their site with an embedded player
- RadioTime (which isn't working for that link)
- vTuner

Unfortunately their stream is not available for:
- direct streaming through any media player
- ShoutCast
- Live365

I use vTuner (via Yamaha AVR) and ShoutCast and Live365 (via SB3). Probably 90% of all three streaming services/portals are identical. But some streams are unique to each of these stream services/portals. i.e. Some streams on vTuner are not availible on ShoutCast and some streams on ShoutCast are not availible on vTuner. Whether this is contractural or just an oversight on behalf of your requested station I don't know. I do know it only takes a simple email request to be added to their streaming services (vTuner, ShoutCast, Live365) for any legitimate Internet Radio station.

As you mentioned, the SB3 certainly has better design looks. The Noxon2 looks like an oscilloscope! :)

But then if the Chevy Nova does what I want and the Corvette can't, I'd take the Nova as well. :)

Cloggy
2008-05-01, 12:19
Thanks for the positive message, but I have a small remark: Radio Guaiba FM 101.3 Mhz could also very well be received/played by the REVO Blik Internet Radio and this devices uses www.reciva.com streaming services. Unfortunately the REVO lost connection every hour and sometimes even got stuck where the only solution was to remove the power cable and reconnect it after 15 seconds. :-(

I've done a simple test and copied the url "http://www.radioguaiba.com.br/aovivo/New/guaibaFm.asx" as a favorite in the Noxon2 and voila....the Noxon2 simply started playing this radio station (and to my little knowledge, it did not need the vTuner streaming facilities). When I looked again in the favorites, the url was changed into "mms://fm.radioguaiba.com.br/guaibaFm" ..the famous url that is not supported by the SB. Note that browsing the Noxon2 is done by entering the IP address of the device, so from the PC you go straight into that box, not using any outside network..

I have the impression that the Noxon2 only needs the vTuner website to translate/obtain the URL and then it uses that URL to connect straight to the station while SB always needs to go through the SN and in case the station is offered through RadioTime, it also has to go through this streaming facility too (given the fact that the final url doesn't even look like the original one). That probably describes why the Noxon2, once a channel is selected, it almost immediately starts playing while the SB always needs some before it starts (maybe to fill its buffer? ...but the Noxon2 also has a buffer even showing how much it is filled).

I think we are discussing here two complete differently designed Internet Radios (and yes, the SB has a far better appearance than the 'horrible' Noxon2.... but if functionality matters... ). IMHO, the Noxon2 is more straightforward and does what it is expect to do while the SB is maybe a bit over-engineered. This might also explains why there are quite some people looking for support of the SB on this forum. Reminds me, as a European, to the old Citroen 2CV...that car was always working but it had no features at all, just a basic car..;-). (and in the Netherlands this car was mentioned "'An Ugly Duck".). Maybe we should compare the Noxon2 with this car...basic but working and also ugly looking).

toby10
2008-05-01, 14:49
Thanks for the positive message, but I have a small remark: Radio Guaiba FM 101.3 Mhz could also very well be received/played by the REVO Blik Internet Radio and this devices uses www.reciva.com streaming services. Unfortunately the REVO lost connection every hour and sometimes even got stuck where the only solution was to remove the power cable and reconnect it after 15 seconds. :-(

I've done a simple test and copied the url "http://www.radioguaiba.com.br/aovivo/New/guaibaFm.asx" as a favorite in the Noxon2 and voila....the Noxon2 simply started playing this radio station (and to my little knowledge, it did not need the vTuner streaming facilities). When I looked again in the favorites, the url was changed into "mms://fm.radioguaiba.com.br/guaibaFm" ..the famous url that is not supported by the SB. Note that browsing the Noxon2 is done by entering the IP address of the device, so from the PC you go straight into that box, not using any outside network..

I have the impression that the Noxon2 only needs the vTuner website to translate/obtain the URL and then it uses that URL to connect straight to the station while SB always needs to go through the SN and in case the station is offered through RadioTime, it also has to go through this streaming facility too (given the fact that the final url doesn't even look like the original one). That probably describes why the Noxon2, once a channel is selected, it almost immediately starts playing while the SB always needs some before it starts (maybe to fill its buffer? ...but the Noxon2 also has a buffer even showing how much it is filled).

I think we are discussing here two complete differently designed Internet Radios (and yes, the SB has a far better appearance than the 'horrible' Noxon2.... but if functionality matters... ). IMHO, the Noxon2 is more straightforward and does what it is expect to do while the SB is maybe a bit over-engineered. This might also explains why there are quite some people looking for support of the SB on this forum. Reminds me, as a European, to the old Citroen 2CV...that car was always working but it had no features at all, just a basic car..;-). (and in the Netherlands this car was mentioned "'An Ugly Duck".). Maybe we should compare the Noxon2 with this car...basic but working and also ugly looking).

That isn't how vTuner works. If you are connecting through vTuner then you are getting the feed from vTuner's server. If you enter a vTuner stream into a media player that does not have a vTuner account your stream will not play. vTuner sells it's services (radio streaming) to hardware mfr's who license it's use via accounts per player. It's basically a hardware based embedded player.

Cloggy
2008-05-02, 00:46
Hhmmmm..what about playing a URL that is not in vTuner? I entered several URLs in my favoritis and these URLs/stations cannot be found in vTuner but are played.

Paul Webster
2008-05-02, 01:54
That isn't how vTuner works. If you are connecting through vTuner then you are getting the feed from vTuner's server. If you enter a vTuner stream into a media player that does not have a vTuner account your stream will not play. vTuner sells it's services (radio streaming) to hardware mfr's who license it's use via accounts per player. It's basically a hardware based embedded player.

My impression was that vTuner (like Reciva) passes the stream URL to the device and the device then makes the direction connection to the target.

Playing vTuner provided URLs from other devices does not seem to be blocked - however, commercial use of their data requires a licence.

toby10
2008-05-02, 03:26
Hhmmmm..what about playing a URL that is not in vTuner? I entered several URLs in my favoritis and these URLs/stations cannot be found in vTuner but are played.

Yes, you can tune in any URL that is in a format that vTuner can play. Same with SN or SC7. But the point is you are indeed using vTuner as a server. I'm no computer computer techy but I'd guess that any internet streaming requires a server somewhere/somehow. If your computer is transcoding the stream than your computer becomes the server.

My Yamaha AVR goes to (and only to) the Yamaha Music Server online which is then fed it's streams via vTuner. A Roku goes to the Roku online server, Sonos to the Sonos online server, etc... :)

toby10
2008-05-02, 03:40
My impression was that vTuner (like Reciva) passes the stream URL to the device and the device then makes the direction connection to the target.

Playing vTuner provided URLs from other devices does not seem to be blocked - however, commercial use of their data requires a licence.

That could well be that vTuner passes it, like it sends it's feeds to the Yamaha Music Server. Again, I'm no computer techy. :)

But if you try to link any hardware player to vTuner that is not authorized vTuner simply kicks it off. On the vTuner online access link to your hardware device, vTuner uses the MAC address of the device for registration. When you enter a Yamaha MAC address it automatically takes you to the Yamaha portion of vTuners web access, Pioneer MAC address takes you to the Pioneer portion, etc...

As a side note, you both may find this interesting: :)
I tried to "trick" the vTuner system into thinking my MAC address was a Pioneer because Pioneer allows both MP3 and WMA radio feeds through vTuner. Yamaha limits this to just MP3's. But the Yamaha will natively play WMA's so I wanted to see if I could get the WMA streams as well. But as soon as vTuner saw my MAC address it just knew I was a Yamaha unit and would only allow me access to the Yamaha portion of vTuner's online service. :)

radiobill
2008-05-07, 09:17
RadioTime replied multiple times to multiple request from Cloggy! We can't control the stream formats the broadcaster makes available. If you "tell us to fix it" as a registered member or include email, RadioTime should reply.

Cloggy
2008-05-07, 09:28
Don't bother about it anymore. I've replaced the SB by a Noxon2 and this device plays this station without any problems whatsoever.

BTW, I sent several emails to RadioTime and the response was very poor. The last one I sent 'complaining' that I did not hear anything for more than 4 days and a few days after this message I got a reply that they might have fixed it so I should give it a try (but then I already had the Noxon2). As said before, forget about it.