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View Full Version : Apple puts top down management style back in fashion



willyhoops
2008-04-07, 03:21
Linux is the ultimate flat management style, and its complex products have limited or no mass consumer appeal. Microsoft's weak management is also producing increasingly chaotic feeling products. Google's flat management has served it well in the production of an accomplished search engine, but its share price is down 37% since the peak and its many attempts to diversify are looking shaky.

Steve Jobs of Apple, on the other hand brings the geeks down to earth and designs proprietary, easy to use and aesthetically appealing products that consumers love.

Unless Logitech also embrace this philosophy I believe their geeky Squeezeboxes will never achieve mass appeal. My qnap is working again but now my transporter is stuttering. Playing music should be a joy not a battle.

ModelCitizen
2008-04-07, 04:17
These devices are a joy to many. My (over-expensive) third generation iPod was the bane of my life and the reason I'll never by an Apple product again.

Horses for courses.

Microsoft and Google are still quite successful companies I hear.

MC

atz6975
2008-04-07, 05:02
You could run SC on a Mac Pro!

corbey
2008-04-07, 05:25
Your QNAP?? :-) You take advantage of the geeky flexibility offered by products from SlimDevices/Logitech, but then you come here and complain about it. A lot of us don't want to live in a Steve Jobs straight-jacket, and it looks like you might not either. Cheers!

radish
2008-04-07, 06:29
Google's flat management has served it well in the production of an accomplished search engine, but its share price is down 37% since the peak and its many attempts to diversify are looking shaky.


Apple is currently down almost 30% from it's peak, and less than a month ago was down over 40%. The market is extremely shaky right now, I don't think you can draw conclusions on individual stocks so easily.

willyhoops
2008-04-07, 06:58
apple is 156 vs a high of 200... thats 78% of its peak, a 22% fall. Also the apple high was in december but the google high was back in early november.

here is an article about it:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bafbd8ec-042d-11dd-b28b-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1


A handful of high-profile departures does not mean Google is facing a brain drain. But the company is starting to suffer something that could have an equally significant impact: a drain of some of the entrepreneurial energy that drove its early growth and on which its unique culture depends heavily.

...

One Silicon Valley headhunter, who also thinks that Google is no longer a magnet for all the region’s best talent, questions whether the company could retain its creativity as it makes this shift – though, as this person adds, Apple at least has proved that it is possible for a mature tech company to remain highly creative.

That does not account for Google’s particular culture, though. This relies on a form of barely controlled chaos in which workers are encouraged to come up with their own ideas for future products in what the company calls their “20 per cent time” – a system that is the complete opposite of the one that Steve Jobs has built.

“Apple is completely top-down, Google is bottom-up,” says Mr Sacca. As Silicon Valley’s entrepreneurial talent starts to look elsewhere for the next main chance, that could threaten the engine on which Google has relied to drive the next phase of its growth

radish
2008-04-07, 07:23
apple is 156 vs a high of 200... thats 78% of its peak, a 22% fall.

We're obviously looking at different numbers :) Regardless, they're different companies in more ways (and more significant ways) than management style and I really think you're comparing apples with oranges.

Here's another one for you (more on topic as well). You have a TP and a QNAP and you're posting on this forum. If the Apple model produces better products why are you here? Why aren't you happily streaming ALAC to your Airport Express from your Time Capsule?

seanadams
2008-04-07, 08:21
Steve Jobs of Apple, on the other hand brings the geeks down to earth and designs proprietary, easy to use and aesthetically appealing products that consumers love.

... and which have good development tools plus a full Unix environment accessible for advanced users. You have to drive it from both sides - having dumbed down single-function products might be OK for iPods, but for the Macs and iPhone they realize full well that you have to attract the power users and developers if it's to have any value as a platform. They got this pretty much wrong vs PCs the first time around.

So, you've made an apt comparison but I disagree with your conclusion. I think it is perfectly possible to make Squeezebox products easy to use without sacrificing their geek appeal. Just because we have a place for people to come and talk about plugins, beta releases, running on linux, etc does not mean that we expect everyone to participate in that.

Murph
2008-04-07, 10:38
I know I'm feeding the troll but I just want to say that the Squeezebox is open code. Yes, that makes it geekier and sometimes setup is not 'plug and pray' like MS but look at the community of developers that formed around it to make it to new and amazing things.

In short, maybe it has more than an on/off & volume button. However, you end up getting so much more than you paid for.

Kevin Lepard
2008-04-07, 11:08
I expect at some point--and I obviously don't have any inside info on
this--that there will be a Logitech branded tiny, fanless computer
that you plug an external USB drive into. All it will do is run
Squeezecenter and it will find the files on the USB drive. If someone
wanted to get crazy, maybe it would have a CD drive and software to
rip & encode too.

I think this would be good for people who are not technical, but leave
things open for those who want to run it other places.

I know this has been discussed in other threads, but with a large
parent company, I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen now. Just
have to see. Personally, I've never had an unsolvable problem with
the software, but I know others have. My network is virtually all
wired which really helps minimize problems, too.

Kevin

On Apr 7, 2008, at 08:21 , seanadams wrote:
>
> willyhoops;288507 Wrote:
>>
>> Steve Jobs of Apple, on the other hand brings the geeks down to earth
>> and designs proprietary, easy to use and aesthetically appealing
>> products that consumers love.
>
> ... and which have good development tools plus a full Unix environment
> accessible for advanced users. You have to drive it from both sides -
> having dumbed down single-function products might be OK for iPods, but
> for the Macs and iPhone they realize full well that you have to
> attract
> the power users and developers if it's to have any value as a
> platform.
> They got this pretty much wrong vs PCs the first time around.
>
> So, you've made an apt comparison but I disagree with your conclusion.
> I think it is perfectly possible to make Squeezebox products easy to
> use without sacrificing their geek appeal. Just because we have a
> place
> for people to come and talk about plugins, beta releases, running on
> linux, etc does not mean that we expect everyone to participate in
> that.
>
>
> --
> seanadams
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45950
>
>

peter
2008-04-07, 13:16
seanadams wrote:
> ... and which have good development tools plus a full Unix environment
> accessible for advanced users. You have to drive it from both sides -
> having dumbed down single-function products might be OK for iPods, but
> for the Macs and iPhone they realize full well that you have to attract
> the power users and developers if it's to have any value as a platform.
> They got this pretty much wrong vs PCs the first time around.
>
> So, you've made an apt comparison but I disagree with your conclusion.
> I think it is perfectly possible to make Squeezebox products easy to
> use without sacrificing their geek appeal. Just because we have a place
> for people to come and talk about plugins, beta releases, running on
> linux, etc does not mean that we expect everyone to participate in
> that.
>

Very ambitious, Sean.
But you've done a great job on the Duet.

Regards,
Peter

willyhoops
2008-04-17, 09:48
Kevin wrote..


I expect at some point that there will be a Logitech branded tiny, fanless computer that you plug an external USB drive into. All it will do is run Squeezecenter and it will find the files on the USB drive. If someone wanted to get crazy, maybe it would have a CD drive and software to rip & encode too.


Yea something like that would make all the difference I think. Except would Steve Jobs make you plug in a USB Drive? Possibly too geeky. Hard drives are pretty cheap, just have one included in all the units. Getting crazy with CD with buit in ripper? Too hard. For the cheaper crowd a unit with CD playback, FM Radio, built in Amp and speakers might be nice (mass appeal - just like Sony GIGA JUKE HDD Hi-Fi without their crappy software and shockingly ugly design).

I would far rather have every unit with a built in hard drive and either a simple program I can run that copies music to all the units with the click of a mouse or just a USB port on it and no need for wireless at all - I will copy across by plugging into my computer and using finder/explorer which is good enough. I found my transporter problem I think - when I use a homeplug ethernet connection the stuttering went away. My laptops uses the wirless ok but the transporter must loose it and the buffer empties without warning. With built in hard drives you can never have a hassle - and wireless is a big hassle. Every single review of the squeezebox i have seen has said it is hard to setup... a built in hard drive like this makes it all childs play.

I also think the slim center thing is not something apple would bother with. Apple TV Take 2 is great becuase it has no pc interface. And building sotware is so hard all anyone is ever going to do is say 'gee this is nowhere near as good or fast as itunes or media player etc'. No doubt people will hate me for suggesting squeezebox gets junked, but I am pretty sure it's what apple would do.

All i want to do is play music without having to load CDs. The rest is geek. Remember Dyson - one of his first vacuum cleaner also had a carpet cleaning feature. He stripped it out and it sold better. That's branding for you. People in Japan like widgets on everthing but in Europe only geeks do. If Adam can teach logitech that it will be an achievement - their geeky keyboards with zillions of ugly uless buttons are completly alien to the Apple crowd. Has anyone seen a wirless keyboard without extra buttons? One as pretty as the mac ones? I really want one

By the way Apple stock is looking great. I got an Apple TV and spent $200 in one month watching films and buying tv shows. It's awesome. The average lifetime spend on itunes of an ipod user is $20! This is a whole new ballgame - they are going to clean up.