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PLynas
2008-04-04, 02:31
I now have 3 squeezeboxes, but have encountered an unexpected problem with my new Duet receiver, hopefully someone can help.

I have one Squeezebox 3, one Squeezebox 2 and 1 Duet Receiver. All are connected wirelessly. Individually each one plays perfectly.

When I sync the Squeezebox 2 and 3 together they play in perfect harmony.

However, when I sync either of them with the Duet the synchronisation does not work. Here is what happens:

Each player starts to play the song, one plays then the other, then they both stop and start again in sync (this is fine with me, almost like they are sorting themselves out first). The SB2 starts in perfect sync, the SB3 starts about half a second out with the Duet. They play for about 30 seconds, but then keep stopping and starting as if they cannot keep up. I have not tried listening for an extended period of time because it is like Chinese torture!

Not sure if any of the following make any difference but here is some more info:

I have never touched any of the following settings:
There is no startup delay set for synchronised players.
For all players minimum synchronisation adjustment is 30 seconds andnetwork latency is 2 milliseconds.
The SB3 and Duet play flac files, the SB2 has bitrate limiting set to 320kbps.
They are all set to maintain synchronisation while playing.

Thanks in advance.

jaffacake
2008-04-04, 02:39
What version of server software are you using?

Am I right in that you are playing back FLAC files when the problem occurs?

Have you tried any other codecs, e.g. mp3, to compare?

PLynas
2008-04-04, 02:48
What version of server software are you using?

Am I right in that you are playing back FLAC files when the problem occurs?

Have you tried any other codecs, e.g. mp3, to compare?

Software as follows:
SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 17793 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252
SB2 firmware v40
SB3 firmware v86
Duet firmware v22

Yes I am playing back FLAC files when the problem occurs. Here is a summary:

SB3 FLAC synced with SB2 MP3 - Works
SB3 FLAC synced with Duet FLAC - Fails
SB2 MP3 synced with Duet FLAC - Fails

I have not tried anything yet to be homest, so have not tried playing MP3's through the SB3 or duet. Although to be honest if that solved the sync problem then that wouldn't fix it for me as I want those two players to play at the best quality (SB2 is in kitchen on small speakers).

bpa
2008-04-04, 02:56
If your SB2 is up to date at version 40 then it is really an SB1 and has a very small buffer.

jaffacake
2008-04-04, 03:09
If your SB2 is up to date at version 40 then it is really an SB1 and has a very small buffer.

But the SB3 fails with the Duet too.

PLynas - Is trying SC 7.0.1 an option?

PLynas
2008-04-04, 03:17
But the SB3 fails with the Duet too.

PLynas - Is trying SC 7.0.1 an option?

I will give it a try and post the results later.

PLynas
2008-04-04, 04:04
I will give it a try and post the results later.

Installed 7.01. I have only tested the synchronisation between the SB3 and the duet but the problem is not solved unfortunately.

Playback on the SB3 is fine for about 30 seconds, while playback on the Duet is choppy. Then the SB3 stops, sometimes it will stop, start and sometimes it will just give up and pause itself.

jaffacake
2008-04-04, 04:16
I'm assuming, as this is a new purchase, that the Duet is in a new area of the house which didn't previously host a player.

Could there be a localised interference issue?

Have you tried swapping them around a bit?

PLynas
2008-04-04, 04:21
I'm assuming, as this is a new purchase, that the Duet is in a new area of the house which didn't previously host a player.

Could there be a localised interference issue?

Have you tried swapping them around a bit?

Not tried swapping them round, will try that in a bit when I get chance, seems worth a try. Not sure what would interfere though - the new player (Duet) is in the living room near the TV, DVD player, and Sky Box (Satellite TV receiver for those non-UK). Could any of these cause a problem?

jaffacake
2008-04-04, 04:25
The logs tell me I get my interference on my player that's located in my TV cabinet. I blame it on the CRT, but it could be the Wii, PVR or anything really.

If it plays when it's not synced though I wouldn't expect synced behaviour to be any different, it's not like the SBs talk to each other directly so it would just be traffic to/from the router as usual. Is the Duet furthest away?

Did you change the firmware on the Receiver/Controller at all or just upgrade SC? Ideally they should be on versions of a similar age.

PLynas
2008-04-04, 05:01
The logs tell me I get my interference on my player that's located in my TV cabinet. I blame it on the CRT, but it could be the Wii, PVR or anything really.

If it plays when it's not synced though I wouldn't expect synced behaviour to be any different, it's not like the SBs talk to each other directly so it would just be traffic to/from the router as usual. Is the Duet furthest away?

Did you change the firmware on the Receiver/Controller at all or just upgrade SC? Ideally they should be on versions of a similar age.

Kind of perfect timing, I was just checking the settings on Squeezecenter and the wireless signal on my Duet suddenly dropped dramatically to just 12%. I went into the living room and my wife had just switched the TV on. So it seems to me that interference is likely to be the problem, unfortunately that could mean a lot of money down the drain for me as I cannot locate my Duet at the other end of the room from the TV........ surely it should be shielded from such interference?

jaffacake
2008-04-04, 06:25
Kind of perfect timing, I was just checking the settings on Squeezecenter and the wireless signal on my Duet suddenly dropped dramatically to just 12%. I went into the living room and my wife had just switched the TV on. So it seems to me that interference is likely to be the problem, unfortunately that could mean a lot of money down the drain for me as I cannot locate my Duet at the other end of the room from the TV........ surely it should be shielded from such interference?

Sadly, any wifi device is liable to interference...they have antennas to pick up this stuff.

That being said, don't conclusively believe this is the case. I'd work with the Slim techs on this and see if they can confirm. If it plays perfectly without being synced then clearly the wifi link from receiver to router is clean...I doubt all the sync/resync traffic would add that much overhead.

There are alternatives you could consider. You could run a cat 5 cable, or alternatively a mains relay device like a Devolo homeplug...assuming these are compatible with Slim kit.

I'd give tech support a call and see if there is any diagnostics they can use to check into it better.

aubuti
2008-04-04, 06:31
You could run a cat 5 cable, or alternatively a mains relay device like a Devolo homeplug...assuming these are compatible with Slim kit.

I'd give tech support a call and see if there is any diagnostics they can use to check into it better.
Obviously homeplug adapters are compatible -- both are standard ethernet (TCP/IP) networking. But I'd agree that you should contact to support to help troubleshoot.

ThomP
2008-04-04, 07:50
I'm having a similar problem sync'ing my Duet with Squeezeslave; They both play fine individually. When I sync, they start out in perfect sync, but after a few seconds the Receiver pauses for about a second causing a delay. If I deselect the option to "keep syncronization" it doesn't happen, so apparantly it pauses because it thinks Squeezeslave is falling behind which is not the case.

I've tried playing around with the delay settings, but no luck.

PLynas
2008-04-05, 00:58
Things have gone from bad to worse. First of all I treid listening to my duet unsynchronised again and it is playing very choppily as if it has a poor wireless connection (which it does). Maybe I got lucky on my first listen. So I tried connecting my Homeplug (already had one) but could not get the Receiver to connect via anything other than its wireless antenna, so could not even try the Homeplug.

I then tried switching my Squeezeboxes around with interesting results. If I put my SB3 in the living room (near the TV etc) then it works perfectly (not tried synchronisation). If I put my Duet where my SB3 was then it's wireless signal is half that of the SB3.

So my conclusion is that the antenna on the Duet is nowhere near as good as that on the SB3. In addition to this I cannot get it to connect via a Homeplug so it is now unusable. I will be telephoning customer support but this does not look promising.

aubuti
2008-04-05, 05:11
Re connecting via the homeplug, did you re-do the network setup (reset by holding the SBR button until it flashes red, then go through the setup receiver process with the Controller)?

jaffacake
2008-04-05, 06:50
You're not the first report stating that wireless coverage isn't as good with the SBR than it was with the SB3.

Both units contain the same chipset and both have 2 antennas. Some have said it's the orientation, the upright position of the SB3 helping with reception - I know the antennas in the Sonos boxes are vertical for the same reason.

At this point, suggestions are difficult. A common problem with a common cause, tech support is your best bet.

PLynas
2008-04-05, 06:51
Missed that step initially, should have stayed calmer and read the manual.... however, the Homeplug does not wrok great unfortunately, so the problem remains.

Current situation is that I now have the duet in the living room with a signal strength of 12%, but it still plays! However the syncing problem remains, I will try disabling the "maintain synchronisation while playing" and see if that helps.

jaffacake
2008-04-05, 09:44
Does your system need to include an SBR?

Could you not, for example, return it and get an SB3 instead? Clearly the SB3 seems to work for you...where's the big win with the SBR?

James_B
2008-04-05, 11:01
The logs tell me I get my interference on my player that's located in my TV cabinet. I blame it on the CRT, but it could be the Wii, PVR or anything really.

So the Sonos boxes have the same issue even with a vertical antenna?

jaffacake
2008-04-05, 11:45
So the Sonos boxes have the same issue even with a vertical antenna?

No, not in the slightest...I was merely saying that there was more background noise on the player located in the TV cabinet.

For reference, here's my current measurements in the various areas of my home. The lower the value, the less noise there is, e.g. -103 is better than -85.

Bathroom
Noise Floor: -103

Living Room
Noise Floor: -85

Bedroom
Noise Floor: -102

En-Suite
Noise Floor: -101

Garage
Noise Floor: -89

Kitchen
Noise Floor: -90

Office
Noise Floor: -95

It's quite variable around the home, the kitchen player is on top of the fridge and gets additional interference....the garage unit is on a bench with all my server kit, NAS, wireless access point etc.

Living room is adjacent to Wii, subwoofer, CRT TV, PVR etc...most noise...but no playback issues in the slightest.

PLynas
2008-04-05, 13:27
Does your system need to include an SBR?

Could you not, for example, return it and get an SB3 instead? Clearly the SB3 seems to work for you...where's the big win with the SBR?

Well I wanted (and use) the new controller, so for the player itself the Duet is cheaper than the SB3. It is also smaller and more discreet so fits in my living room better.

bpa
2008-04-05, 13:48
Have you tried using a different wireless channel ?

jaffacake
2008-04-05, 14:06
Well I wanted (and use) the new controller, so for the player itself the Duet is cheaper than the SB3. It is also smaller and more discreet so fits in my living room better.

The controller is available for purchase separately and, I believe, will work without an SBR.

The SBR is smaller and more discreet...I guess this is what reduces the wireless coverage. As you're clearly not bothered about a display, the SBR doesn't have one, then what about an SB3 hidden behind your TV cabinet or something? I guess cost is the main concern.

The suggestion of trying a different wireless channel is a good one. If you have a laptop, do you detect any wireless channels in use by your neighbours?

mikel51
2008-04-05, 16:45
I have a related problem with my transporter and receiver. When I synch the receiver with transporter, it starts out OK. At song switches, the transporter intermittently stops playing while the receiver continues. stopping and starting playing helps...but it was easier to just stop the synching.

The transporter is hardwired to the server via ethernet cable. The receiver is wireless (transmitted to the wireless N router from the transporter (wireless bridge) and back to the receiver.

barks
2008-04-05, 17:48
Since the SBR lies flat and the antennas are in the horizontal plane, I wonder if flipping the SBR on it's side would increase your reception? This would change the antenna orientation and possible increase your signal strength. Only problem would be how to support it in the vertical position!

PLynas
2008-04-07, 03:25
Yes I have tried changing the wireless channel, the performance I am receiving is the best I can get. Suppose i could always try flipping the Duet Receiver on it side.... Still whatever way you look at it, it seems that the wireless performance of the Duet is less than that of the SB3.

barks
2008-04-09, 17:55
I received my DUET system on Monday and have been monitoring it's signal strenght compared to my SB3. The SB3 is about 30 feet away on the same level as my wireless router and I placed the SBR about the same distance away only one floor down. Looking at the status screen in SqueezeCenter the SBR seemed to vary widely between 45-80% compared to the SB3 80-85%. I moved the SBR all around, tried standing it vertically, nothing made any improvement. Then I noticed that I had a 2.4ghz cordless phone sitting about 1 foot away. Once I relocated the phone to the other side of the room, about 10 feet away, my SBR signal strength settled down to a consistent 78-80%.

Millwood
2008-04-09, 18:31
Today, one of my SB3's decided, as it sometimes does, to lock into the "wrong" access point. It's signal strength then was going as low as 12%. But, it worked fine. Until I tried to sync it with my other SB3. Then all sorts of trouble.

So it may be that sync mode is somehow less tolerant of network trouble than normal mode. Can't think why, except of course that with two SB3's running, there is more load on the wireless channel.

aubuti
2008-04-11, 07:19
Your problem is probably the small buffer in the SB1. I would finetune the synchronization using the various settings available in SqueezeCenter. There are several settings you can adjust, along with good guidance for which changes you need for which kinds of problems. I forget which tab it's under, but first I'd look under advanced.