PDA

View Full Version : How to avoid the 'click' when a track starts



bloemert
2008-03-31, 14:28
I have a classic squeezebox and a duet.
I only play flac music files.
A new track starts always with a short click and then after a split of a second the track starts. The problem exists on both squeezeboxes.
After updating Squeezecenter 7 to version 7.0.1 the problem still exists.

Does someone know how to solve this problem ?

cjhabs
2008-03-31, 19:35
I have a classic squeezebox and a duet.
I only play flac music files.
A new track starts always with a short click and then after a split of a second the track starts. The problem exists on both squeezeboxes.
After updating Squeezecenter 7 to version 7.0.1 the problem still exists.

Does someone know how to solve this problem ?

Are you running Windows? It could be:
Control panel -> Sounds and Audio Devices -> Sounds (tab) -> find "start navigation" in the list under "Windows Explorer" and change the sound to none.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29061

Habs

bloemert
2008-04-01, 01:03
I run slimserver on windows-XP.
I have changed the sound to none following the suggested advice, but the problem still exist.

I found something related to my problem in:
http://forum.inguzaudio.com/index.php?showtopic=3&pid=138&st=20&#entry138

It stated that:
"The loud click at the start of the song is due to -wavo sending the WAV file header (a hundred bytes or so) and Squeezebox interpreting that as "playable data"... without -wavo, ony the raw data is sent. Unfortunately with only sending the raw data, Squeezebox doesn't have any way to tell the bit-depth, and assumes it's 16 even if you have InguzDSP output 24-bit data... hence the white-noise experience..."

But I have tried different settings in the convert.conf file, but without success.

So if someone has another suggestion, it would be greatfull
And who knows what are the possible settings and meanings of these settings in convert.conf

ChrisNY
2008-04-01, 09:58
FWIW, I am running SqueezeCenter on Ubuntu and get the same clicks before each track. I've gotten used to it but would certainly be happy to be rid of the clicks...

seanadams
2008-04-01, 10:03
There should not be any clicks at the start of FLAC files. Are you sure there is not actually a click recorded in the track, due to some issue with how the file was created?

bloemert
2008-04-02, 05:31
I have investigated via Cool-edit the wave-form of the flac's and the flac's seem perfect.

Further on I discovered that
- live-albums gave no problem
- if track x ends quiet and track x+1 starts immediately with music/singing a hick-up takes place (repeat of the first second music with a small pauze inbetween).
- The problem disappeared when I used the analogue output of the squeezebox or duet-receiver. (I have both a squeezebox and a duet)

I have a Primare SPA-21 processor and I use the DAC of this processor via the digital input of the squeezebox/duet.
In the main-menu of the SPA-21 a strange effect takes place during the click.
Normally:
Input-mode = PCM
surround-mode = PARTY

but during the click or hick-up:
Input-mode = NOLOCK (short blinking)
surround-mode = AUTO (short blinking)

After a second these settings change immediately again to their original settings PCM and PARTY.

If I change PARTY via the input-settings in 2-channel the problem still exists.

It seems that the communication between the digital output of the squeezebox and the PRIMARE DAC is not correct.

jaffacake
2008-04-02, 05:55
Are you using co-ax of SPDIF connections?

Have you tried using the other?

bloemert
2008-04-02, 06:40
I have tried the 2 digital SPDIF inputs on the PRIMARE processor.
Their are also 2 digital optical TOSLink inputs, but I haven't tried these because I do not have such a cable.
But do you expect that connecting to the TOSLink solves the problem ?
If so, then I will immediately buy such a cable.

seanadams
2008-04-02, 06:57
but during the click or hick-up:
Input-mode = NOLOCK (short blinking)
surround-mode = AUTO (short blinking)

This is very interesting. What is happening is that your receiver is losing its "lock" with the s/pdif signal. This is corroborated by the fact that you don't hear this on the analog outputs.

The thing is, there is nothing special about track boundaries as far as our s/pdif implementation is concerned. But... track transitions as mastered on the CD often contain digital silence (all zeroes). SB3 will obediently output this digital silence, but:

Digital silence is a something of a special case for s/pdif because of the way the signal is encoded electrically. It is more difficult for a receiver to lock on to because the timing has a very uneven distribution.

So it is quite possible that trying a different cable or trying toslink might help.

It is also possible that there is a hardware or software bug in your processor/DAC. It may be doing something weird when it sees digital silence. You could test that by opening a music file is a sound editor, and then selecting various sections of the file and changing them to digital silence. So you'd have a single track containing sections of music followed by silence, followed by music etc. Then see if it has any trouble playing that file. This would remove any track transition behavior from the question - if this fails then it is definitely a fault with either the electrical connection or the processor.

seanadams
2008-04-02, 06:58
I have tried the 2 digital SPDIF inputs on the PRIMARE processor.
Their are also 2 digital optical TOSLink inputs, but I haven't tried these because I do not have such a cable.
But do you expect that connecting to the TOSLink solves the problem ?
If so, then I will immediately buy such a cable.

What kind of cable are you using for the s/pdif? Try a good quality video cable.

bloemert
2008-04-03, 04:21
I use a Profigold s/pdif cable.
Yesterday I have bought a profigold toslink cable (35 EUR) and the problems are the same with this cable.
According to Sean’s suggestion I have modified a track via “CoolEdit” and changed some parts for 10 or 20 seconds “silence”. Some other parts I have changed the amplitude to 0%. Visually the results for “silence” and “0% amplitude” are the same in “CoolEdit”
Via the squeezebox in digital mode during the “silence” periods the input mode switches to blinking NOLOCK and gives the click at the first time NOLOCK appears. It stays blinking during the silence period and changes back to PCM (without a click) at the end of the silence period and the music is coming back again.
The 0% amplitude parts gave no problems (no click), only the expected silence for these parts.

seanadams
2008-04-03, 09:40
Via the squeezebox in digital mode during the “silence” periods the input mode switches to blinking NOLOCK and gives the click at the first time NOLOCK appears. It stays blinking during the silence period and changes back to PCM (without a click) at the end of the silence period and the music is coming back again.

This is definitely a problem in your receiver/processor. It should never lose lock just because the signal is all-zeroes.

seanadams
2008-04-03, 09:46
There is a further test you could do to rule out the Squeezebox completely: Burn your test track to an audio CD, and try playing it on a regular CD player via s/pdif into the same processor.

ptrainer
2008-04-03, 12:07
This is pretty interesting because when I first got my Squeezebox1 I tried digital output via coax and optical into my Onkyo tx800 and experienced a truncation of the first 1/2 second of audio at the start of every new track. If the song began with a drumbeat, I'd only hear the second half of the beat. I switched to analog output and all was fine.

When I received my duet I tried digital output again with the SBR and still have the same issue. I don't get a click, like you, but maybe that's just the different manner in which my Onkyo's DAC has trouble locking at the start of a signal. Unfortunately the only equipment I own with digital outs are my SBs and the only DAC I own which converts external signals is the Onkyo so I can't compare with other devices. Still, your issue definitely sounds like a DAC one to me.

seanadams
2008-04-03, 13:15
This is pretty interesting because when I first got my Squeezebox1 I tried digital output via coax and optical into my Onkyo tx800 and experienced a truncation of the first 1/2 second of audio at the start of every new track. If the song began with a drumbeat, I'd only hear the second half of the beat. I switched to analog output and all was fine.

That was a very different thing. It was in fact a bug in the SB1, where the decoder would not output a valid s/pdif signal for the first couple MP3 frames of a stream. We later added a workaround for it, where we would send a few frames of silence before sending the track. This affected the initial start of playback (eg jumping to a new track) but not track transitions.

SB2/SB3/TP/SBR don't have any such issues - the only time the s/pdif is ever interrupted is when changing sample rates, where it's necessary.

gbrandwood
2008-04-08, 14:26
I have the same problem. My Duet receiver is connected to my Marantz amp (SR4200) using a Cambridge Audio coax digital cable. How annoying! Again, doesn't happen on gapless albums so I'm guessing it's the same issue.

Is the only option to change my amp or go analogue? Am I right that if I go analogue the hiss will come back when not playing anything? Doesn't seem to happen now I'm digital.

amey01
2008-04-09, 16:24
Certainly sounds like an issue with the Primare - interesting because I have no issue at all with silence from my SB3 to Musical Fidelity DAC - the lock remains constantly on.

I'd be interested to see the result if you burned that test track to CD (as Sean said) and tried it to your Primare DAC.

seanadams
2008-04-09, 16:50
Is the only option to change my amp or go analogue?

I had one other idea, and this is a long shot... look through the settings for that input in your receiver's menus, and see if there is an option to force it to "PCM" or "Stereo" mode, ie. disabling auto-detection of surround sound formats.

bloemert - any news on your situation?

bloemert
2008-04-11, 06:16
My CD-player had no digital output, but my recently bought DVD-recorder (Sony RDR-HX750) has a digital coax output and can also play audio CD's.
I burned my test track to an audio CD and played it on the DVD_recorder.
The result was the same click-problem in combination with the blinking NOLOCK.
I also tried original bought CD's and they gave the same problem.
So the Primare processor must be the cause of the click-problem.

There is unfortunately no option to force the input to "PCM" or "Stereo" mode and disabling auto-detection of surround sound formats.
See
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/primare/manuals/spa21_manual.pdf

amey01
2008-04-11, 13:36
Maybe try to look for a firmware upgrade for this processor. Or talk to your dealer.