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NoFlyZone
2008-03-29, 22:18
Thought I'd share my experience with a recent test/upgrade to my Welbourne power supply.

Having the SB3 since it's inception, I thought to try and improve on its already good design. I've changed the DAC to the 1748KE version and upgraded the Op amp to the latest low noise design. Upgrading these 2 components had a mild effect and although positive I'd hoped for more. I ordered and built the Welbourne Power supply. Nice kit! It too had a mild effect, a little cleaner picture slightly better soundstage but knowing the limitations of my speakers (Def Tech BP2000's) I decided that to reach what I'm after, I need to save for some better speakers, an outboard DAC or maybe the TP at the very least.

Recently I decided to build a VH Audio power cord with some Furutech AC plugs. This cable was to feed wall power to my Power Pack V conditioner. This turned out to be one of the best upgrades I've done in my 40 years of "tweaking". I was very skeptical about doing this coming from an engineering/physics background but the proof was undeniable. I now had the makings of a soundstage. It wasn't perfect but better than I thought possible. Every aspect of sound had improved very much to my amazement. Since then I've built a few more power cables trying various Furutech connectors and VH Audio DIY cable. All with amazing results. We've really been enjoying our music as of late - a sort of rediscovery if you will.

I moved 2 of my upgraded power cables to the stock ones feeding the Nuforce amps although mismatched (Flavor 2 smaller gauge and Flavor 4 large gauge) another leap forward in sound was achieved. Now I had a solid central image and although still contained between the speakers my Def Techs had taken on a life I'd thought they never could. Not liking the idea of having mismatched cables to my amps I ordered/built another large gauge Flavor 4 cable for my amp which gave to me a spare. I thought I'd use this on my pre/pro but got to thinking about that Welbourne PS. After all, I'm a 2 channel guy. 3 nights ago while my wife, dad and I were enjoying some music through the SB3 I stopped the music and wanted to "experiment with this spare power cable. I explained that given the fact this P.S. is supplying low voltage and by it's very nature of design we shouldn't notice any sort of improvement, I wanted to put in service this ~$70 cable. So off I went Welbourne in one hand and a soldering iron in the other. An hour later the deed was done (PITA!). I plugged her in and sat back. We played just where we left off. "Is that the same song?" my wife asked. We sat and listened in disbelief. How could this be? There's no more imagining my soundstage, it's there, it's solid, it's layered, it has great depth, don't know how else to describe. Depth, music is no longer contained in the speakers. Sound emanates from behind, in front and around. Instruments occupy spaces in the room, not in the perfect sense and not the best I've heard as I heard/auditioned many fine systems. Midrange, voices where my speakers weakness was evident now had blossomed like I'd not thought possible. My speakers possess powered subwoofers which I've always deemed woeful. Now I've got tuneful bass! I'm listening now and still in disbelief.

Many discussions have ensued with colleagues regarding the effect power cables have in the digital/analog domain. I had one fellow come to audition. Now he has some cables on order although different from my DIYers. I cannot AB the power cable my linear PS as it's too painful to replace but on other equipment it was painfully evident from an aural standpoint, and on my system, it's transformation in a very good way.

All of this gibberish to say or share, the power cable running TO the linear PS had a FAR greater effect than the PS itself - in my system - in My experience. Yours will vary I'm sure, if you believe in such voodoo. I do now.

Next test, my Classe's ;-)

zanash
2008-03-30, 04:30
exactly my experience .......

if you can fit an iec power socket to the psu ....you can then change cables very easily ....

tyler_durden
2008-03-30, 10:34
The power of the human mind never ceases to amaze me.

TD

NoFlyZone
2008-03-30, 18:47
The power of the human mind never ceases to amaze me.

TD

Why thank you ;-)

zanash
2008-03-31, 01:48
its a bit of strong statement with obviously little thought to content....

suggest you spend 30years listening to the effect cables have on system sounds before you pass further comment ...

Bizarroterl
2008-03-31, 13:20
its a bit of strong statement with obviously little thought to content....

suggest you spend 30years listening to the effect cables have on system sounds before you pass further comment ...


If it takes 30 years experience to tell a difference then I'll pass.

haunyack
2008-03-31, 13:37
Monster XP speaker cable will make an audio system sound like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Is that not different (worse) than Guerilla silver push-pull which convey an accurate, complex, smooth sound like fingernails on an audio itch?
That conlusion took me all of five minutes.

.

Listener
2008-03-31, 18:33
If it takes 30 years experience to tell a difference then I'll pass.

That's one long ABX test!

Bill

tyler_durden
2008-03-31, 20:05
I have much better things to do with 30 years. In just 3 years I will be a dentist. Perhaps you'll be in my chair some day and you can tell me all about the 30 years you've spent listening to cables.

TD

Listener
2008-04-01, 13:26
I have much better things to do with 30 years. In just 3 years I will be a dentist. Perhaps you'll be in my chair some day and you can tell me all about the 30 years you've spent listening to cables.

TD

Be sure and upgrade the power cords on all your dental equipment.

bill

jsprag
2008-04-01, 13:45
suggest you spend 30years listening to the effect cables have on system sounds before you pass further comment ...

My cables definitely have an effect on the sound of my system. One time I took them out completely and I couldn't hear a thing. I quickly decided that cables were critical and promptly re-installed them. I noticed immediate improvements in the soundstage. Highs were clearer, mids had more depth, and the bass was much more intense. From then on I vowed to never operate my system without cables again.

tyler_durden
2008-04-02, 06:21
My cables definitely have an effect on the sound of my system. One time I took them out completely and I couldn't hear a thing. I quickly decided that cables were critical and promptly re-installed them. I noticed immediate improvements in the soundstage. Highs were clearer, mids had more depth, and the bass was much more intense. From then on I vowed to never operate my system without cables again.

I'll bet the improvement was "night and day" level stuff! Cables ARE critical!

TD

Digitalabode
2008-04-08, 01:29
Anyone know where we can find measured comparisons of different quality analogue cables? Factual evidence is always far harder to argue against than subjective opinions based on one person's ears verses another.

So if someone knows a web site where we can find cable test results using signal generators, oscilloscopes and / or spectrum analysers I'd be really interested to view it.

I'm sure there will be a difference with analogue cables, but not as much as most people believe. However, for digital (audio, HDMI etc.) forget it. These either work or they don't, thatís the nature of 1's and 0's.

zanash
2008-04-08, 02:17
thats right your going to lay the factual evidence in front of your system and see if you hear a difference ?

oh come on

if you can tell if a component change makes a difference in your own system them I'd suggest either there is none or your in the wrong hobby !

take about taken out of context ...its 30 years of being able to hear not as some wag said 30 years to hear!

I was a sceptical as the next person till I actually started to listen rather than just having music on ...

I can demonstrate the difference between conductor types ...its easy you all can do it ....get a signal spliter even a cheap one feed the signal into it take your two dissimilar cables and attach ...feed to two inputs on your pre amp and then switch between as the music plays ....

now you need dissimilar ic...as logic dictates similar ic will sound the same ! so it no good using two coaxial type ic that have stranded copper cores ...as guess what they are going to sound identical.

Digitalabode
2008-04-08, 10:32
Now this is what I'm talking about (from page pdf39)...

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_16_r.pdf

I particularly like comment on page pdf44 that states that "ordinary lamp cord is fine", refering to speaker cabling of 4 to 5 feet. And for longer runs, 42cent COAX has the same frequency response as stuff costing 100 times more.

Granted, not all the answers are covered in this artical, like RFI, but does make interesting reading.

tyler_durden
2008-04-08, 19:24
Anyone know where we can find measured comparisons of different quality analogue cables? Factual evidence is always far harder to argue against than subjective opinions based on one person's ears verses another.

It would do no good. Fanatics use measurements when they suit their purposes and discard them when they don't. Let's say you see a difference on an oscilloscope. Is it audible? You haven't solved the argument- you've merely shifted it to whether a visible phenomenon is an audible one.

This silliness will never end. It will go on and on.

Never underestimate the human capacity for __________. It is the reason why W got elected not once but twice. It is the reason why men women put up with men. It is the reason why anyone wastes time in forums like these.

TD

Digitalabode
2008-04-09, 00:35
...This silliness will never end. It will go on and on...TD

I think you are right. Fortunately, it will not affect me, as I refuse to be drawn in by the increasing extortionate claims being made by cable manufactures. Maybe, just maybe, one day the advertising standards agency will get to grip with this problem. And maybe then, just maybe, we can settle in to some sensible discussions on how to best connect our equipment rather than how much to spend on it.

chill
2008-04-09, 00:49
Maybe, just maybe, one day the advertising standards agency will get to grip with this problem.

In case you missed it, Opaqueice posted this link (http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_44177.htm) in another thread (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=289017&postcount=39) - a light on the horizon perhaps?

Digitalabode
2008-04-09, 01:07
In case you missed it, Opaqueice posted this link (http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_44177.htm) in another thread (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=289017&postcount=39) - a light on the horizon perhaps?

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that specific article, but was aware of silly claims being made about mains leads. They'll have us re-wriring our houses soon if we're not careful. Lets hope others in forums like this take time to read the links provided in this tread.

Doermann
2008-04-12, 20:49
Be sure and upgrade the power cords on all your dental equipment.

bill


You made my day!! :o))

tyler_durden
2008-04-12, 23:14
My dental unit will pump only Perrier and fresh mountain air captured in the Swiss Alps and flown in daily by private jet to forestall staleness. My handpiece will use only natural diamond burs, not those artificial, manufactured "diamonds" that lesser practitioners use. My fees will of course match the quality of my equipment and services but my affluent patients will expect nothing less.

TD

drewe181
2008-04-13, 02:11
My dental unit will pump only Perrier and fresh mountain air captured in the Swiss Alps and flown in daily by private jet to forestall staleness. My handpiece will use only natural diamond burs, not those artificial, manufactured "diamonds" that lesser practitioners use. My fees will of course match the quality of my equipment and services but my affluent patients will expect nothing less.

TD
I don't think I could trust a dentist that likes to call himself Tyler Durden. Then again, he was quite efficient at extracting teeth.

morris_minor
2008-04-13, 03:06
Perhaps you'll be in my chair some day and you can tell me all about the 30 years you've spent listening to cables.

TD

If there's one worse than trying to talk with someone's hand inside your mouth - not to mention various instruments of torture, it's not being able to afford esoteric cable (and having the time and the will to audition it). . . ~:o)=

bobkoure
2008-05-29, 09:14
In just 3 years I will be a dentist. Perhaps you'll be in my chair some day and you can tell me all about the 30 years you've spent listening to cables.

Erm... have you ever tried to have a conversation with your dentist? Your mouth's all full of cotton and tools and often a drill and his/her hands. I can picture it now: "erg..glbf cablf... gurgle [sucking noise]". :)

tyler_durden
2008-05-29, 21:50
We have a special class where we have to practice conversing with patients whose mouths are full of cotton rolls, dri-angles, saliva ejectors and topical anesthetic applicators.

It usually goes well until the lab practical exams where our abilities are tested by experienced dentists. Sometimes the stress is too much. During the last test one of my classmates "lost it" and started screaming at the patient to enunciate. When they realized what they had done, the student left the room in tears.

Dentistry: if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

TD

Khuli
2008-06-16, 05:32
In case you missed it, Opaqueice posted this link (http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_44177.htm)

That could be an interesting RSS feed
http://www.asa.org.uk/cmsapp/_templates/_asatemplates/_adjudications/_rss/rss.xml