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fireupthegrill
2008-03-22, 15:55
This is a continuing discussion of the problems I described in my reply to http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45031.

I have a WRT-54G running Tomato 1.17. My SB Receiver is connected via wired Ethernet to the router, as is the Linux server running SqueezeCenter. All of this works great -- SC web interface is snappy, SBR responds quickly, etc.

The Controller, however, is in bad shape, losing both wireless connectivity and its DHCP-assigned address all the time. For the short times when it is connecting, I note the following:

- Pinging the controller from the wired Linux server is 100% successful, but the responses are slow and spiky (rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 39.646/173.173/327.011/94.522 ms).

- Pinging the wired server from the controller (invoked through ssh) drops between 40% and 80% of packets. The successful pings tend to follow a pattern: slow response, fast response, slow, fast, slow, fast -- e.g., 800msec, 7msec, 850msec, 10msec.

I think the difference in packet loss between S->C and C->S is a red herring; I don't know enough about how the ping tool works, but I'd guess it's a difference in the two different implementations of ping; perhaps the server's version is more tenacious, so it succeeds more often than the controller's version.

I've tried with a different router of the same model, and just to be sure I flashed OpenWRT and a Sveasoft derivative. I cranked down all the wifi settings to their slowest settings (1-2Mbps, etc.) and saw no difference.

Is it time to cry uncle and call my controller's hardware bad? I live in San Mateo and drive by Slimdevices' HQ every day; I'd be happy to try a known-good sample at my house, or vice-versa.

fireupthegrill
2008-03-22, 18:02
I borrowed a different wifi access point, a D-Link DWL-G730AP, and results aren't much better. The receiver connects fine (wirelessly), but the controller appears to be sending out DHCP discover requests repeatedly, ignoring the responses from the AP's server, and eventually the controller self-assigns a 169.x.x.x address. It occasionally acquires a real IP address, but the controller doesn't respond to pings or ssh connection requests, and it has lots of trouble seeing the SB receiver.

Slim Folks, given that I've changed pretty much everything except the controller, do you think it's a problem on my end? I'm starting to think this particular controller is a bad apple.

slimpy
2008-03-22, 19:01
This sounds like the wireless module isn't working properly.
I think now is the time to contact Slimdevices or your retailer to get the Controller replaced.

-s.

rtitmuss
2008-03-25, 06:06
Could you look in 'Settings > Advanced > Wireless Network > <your network name>'. What information is displayed, in particular what is the SNR (Signal-to-noise ratio) shown? How does this vary as you move around your house?

Thanks,
Richard

stigb
2008-03-25, 07:58
This is a continuing discussion of the problems I described in my reply to http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45031.

I have a WRT-54G running Tomato 1.17. My SB Receiver is connected via wired Ethernet to the router, as is the Linux server running SqueezeCenter. All of this works great -- SC web interface is snappy, SBR responds quickly, etc.

The Controller, however, is in bad shape, losing both wireless connectivity and its DHCP-assigned address all the time. For the short times when it is connecting, I note the following:

- Pinging the controller from the wired Linux server is 100% successful, but the responses are slow and spiky (rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 39.646/173.173/327.011/94.522 ms).

- Pinging the wired server from the controller (invoked through ssh) drops between 40% and 80% of packets. The successful pings tend to follow a pattern: slow response, fast response, slow, fast, slow, fast -- e.g., 800msec, 7msec, 850msec, 10msec.

I think the difference in packet loss between S->C and C->S is a red herring; I don't know enough about how the ping tool works, but I'd guess it's a difference in the two different implementations of ping; perhaps the server's version is more tenacious, so it succeeds more often than the controller's version.

I've tried with a different router of the same model, and just to be sure I flashed OpenWRT and a Sveasoft derivative. I cranked down all the wifi settings to their slowest settings (1-2Mbps, etc.) and saw no difference.

Is it time to cry uncle and call my controller's hardware bad? I live in San Mateo and drive by Slimdevices' HQ every day; I'd be happy to try a known-good sample at my house, or vice-versa.

Can the problem be raleted to your firewall?
At page 26 in the manual it says that there could be connection problem if you don't have opend up for these ports in the firewall:
Port 3483 (UDP)
Port 3483 (TCP)
Port 9000 (TCP)
//Stig

Jeff Flowerday
2008-03-25, 09:57
Can the problem be raleted to your firewall?
At page 26 in the manual it says that there could be connection problem if you don't have opend up for these ports in the firewall:
Port 3483 (UDP)
Port 3483 (TCP)
Port 9000 (TCP)
//Stig

Firewall will only be an issue when accessing internet content. His is purely an internal network wireless issue.

@lex
2008-03-25, 10:49
I borrowed a different wifi access point, a D-Link DWL-G730AP, and results aren't much better. The receiver connects fine (wirelessly), but the controller appears to be sending out DHCP discover requests repeatedly, ignoring the responses from the AP's server, and eventually the controller self-assigns a 169.x.x.x address. It occasionally acquires a real IP address, but the controller doesn't respond to pings or ssh connection requests, and it has lots of trouble seeing the SB receiver.

Slim Folks, given that I've changed pretty much everything except the controller, do you think it's a problem on my end? I'm starting to think this particular controller is a bad apple.

Hello fireupthegrill
I have exactly the same problem with the controller as you describe. I have tried excactly the same. Have spent several hours trying to solve the problem, but give up now.
I consider returning the product :-(
Hope the Slim Folks find a solution or maybe it is hardwarefailure.

SNR is 60 i meter from my Access Point and 40 5 meters away (clear line of sight), 35 in next room. The problem is anywhere even right beside my acces point.

Best regards

@lex

mvalera
2008-03-25, 11:19
Try connecting ad-hoc through the SB Receiver. That's going to require a factory reset on the Receiver and the Controller.

If you are still having problems this way, I would contact support as you may have bad units. In fact it might be a good idea to go ahead and contact support first.

Mike

@lex
2008-03-25, 12:48
Try connecting ad-hoc through the SB Receiver. That's going to require a factory reset on the Receiver and the Controller.

If you are still having problems this way, I would contact support as you may have bad units. In fact it might be a good idea to go ahead and contact support first.

Mike

Hello Mike
Now I have connected my SB Receiver again (was disconnected to eliminate possibel errors from receiver). Connected Controller through SB Receiver as your suggestion. AND NOW IT ALL SEEMS TO WORK AGAIN ! :-) Fast response on Controller, showing actual Now Playing including cover immediately on all my 3 SB3 Classic and 1 Receiver. Fast ping, 2-10 ms, of all units (SB3 Classic, SB Receiver, SB Controller) and no packet drop (on ping).

That means Controller and SB3 Classic alone doesn't work. Some lack of backward capability.

Best regards

@lex

slimpy
2008-03-25, 13:04
That means Controller and SB3 Classic alone doesn't work. Some lack of backward capability.
That's not lack of backward capability.
Your controller just doesn't cope well with your access point, that's all.
Now it's time to find out what the problem with your AP is.
Post brand and model of your AP, wireless encryption and wireless channel, etc.
Try to connect with wireless encryption disabled.
Also try different wireless channels to see if that makes a difference.
Disable any signal booster or pre-N specific settings.
Make sure mac address filtering is disabled and turn on SSID broadcast if it's disabled.

-s.

@lex
2008-03-25, 13:28
That's not lack of backward capability.
Your controller just doesn't cope well with your access point, that's all.
Now it's time to find out what the problem with your AP is.
Post brand and model of your AP, wireless encryption and wireless channel, etc.
Try to connect with wireless encryption disabled.
Also try different wireless channels to see if that makes a difference.
Disable any signal booster or pre-N specific settings.
Make sure mac address filtering is disabled and turn on SSID broadcast if it's disabled.

-s.

Allright we will not call it lack of backward capality :-)
I still presume that the software in the receiver and the classic is different !

AP is ZyXEL P-2602HW-D1A
Channel is 6 (2437MHz)
Wireless encryption has all the time been disabled
Mac address filtering has all the time been disabled
SSID broadcast has all the time been enabled
All the time no signal boost og pre-N specific settings

At the moment I can control my SB3 Classics but not the Receiver using the Controller. So now the Controller cope well with my AP regarding the SB3 Classics but not Receiver at the moment. Controller is still connected through Receiver.

Best regards

@lex

iwp
2008-03-26, 01:59
AP is ZyXEL P-2602HW-D1A


@lex, just in case it's useful... I had strange network problems getting the (beta) SBC to work with my Zyxel 660HW-61, and ended up buying a new router. See <http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7153>. It sounds like you've worked round something similar by bridging your controller via the SBR.

Ian

slimpy
2008-03-26, 02:53
Allright we will not call it lack of backward capality :-)
I still presume that the software in the receiver and the classic is different !

AP is ZyXEL P-2602HW-D1A
Channel is 6 (2437MHz)
Wireless encryption has all the time been disabled
Mac address filtering has all the time been disabled
SSID broadcast has all the time been enabled
All the time no signal boost og pre-N specific settings

At the moment I can control my SB3 Classics but not the Receiver using the Controller. So now the Controller cope well with my AP regarding the SB3 Classics but not Receiver at the moment. Controller is still connected through Receiver.

Just to clarify things, your controller can either use an existing AP or the receiver to establish a wireless connection.
In either case the controller doesn't communicate with any player directly. It only communicates with the server (Squeezecenter) which in turn communicates with the player.
If you can control your SB3 but not the receiver when the controller is connected to the AP this suggests that the receiver isn't connected to the AP (assuming you use the receiver wirelessly).
Please also try channels 1 and 11 on your router.

-s.

@lex
2008-03-26, 03:06
Just to clarify things, your controller can either use an existing AP or the receiver to establish a wireless connection.
In either case the controller doesn't communicate with any player directly. It only communicates with the server (Squeezecenter) which in turn communicates with the player.
If you can control your SB3 but not the receiver when the controller is connected to the AP this suggests that the receiver isn't connected to the AP (assuming you use the receiver wirelessly).
Please also try channels 1 and 11 on your router.

-s.

Situation 1:
SBR (Receiver) out of system. SBC (Controller) connects through AP. SBC did not work at all.

Situation 2:
SBR connected through Ethernet (wire) to Router/Switch/AP. SBC connected through SBR. SBC controls 3 pieces of SB3 completely but not SBR. SBR can see SqueezeCenter (SC) but not connect.

I try channels 1 and 11 on router when I come home from work.

slimpy
2008-03-26, 03:26
Situation 1:
SBR (Receiver) out of system. SBC (Controller) connects through AP. SBC did not work at all.

Situation 2:
SBR connected through Ethernet (wire) to Router/Switch/AP. SBC connected through SBR. SBC controls 3 pieces of SB3 completely but not SBR. SBR can see SqueezeCenter (SC) but not connect.

Situation 2 sounds really strange. If there wasn't a working network connection to the SBR you wouldn't be able to control the SB3s either.
Can you control (or even see) the SBR from the web interface?

-s.

@lex
2008-03-26, 03:43
Situation 2 sounds really strange. If there wasn't a working network connection to the SBR you wouldn't be able to control the SB3s either.
Can you control (or even see) the SBR from the web interface?

-s.

I have to be home to try things out. As I remember i can't see or control SBR from Web Interface (SqueezeCenter). I will return later :-)

improvisato
2008-03-26, 07:22
Could you look in 'Settings > Advanced > Wireless Network > <your network name>'. What information is displayed, in particular what is the SNR (Signal-to-noise ratio) shown? How does this vary as you move around your house?

Thanks,
Richard

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but my post seems relevant to the conversation.

I'm interested in the SNR for the controller. What is the range of possible values? Is it 1 to 100? And, more importantly, what is considered the lowest optimal SNR value? I would assume, that as long as the receiver is not experiencing hiccups, then the SNR does not especially matter. But still- I'm interested in how my wireless setup rates in terms of SNR.

fireupthegrill
2008-03-26, 09:26
Could you look in 'Settings > Advanced > Wireless Network > <your network name>'. What information is displayed, in particular what is the SNR (Signal-to-noise ratio) shown? How does this vary as you move around your house?

Typically ranges from 35 to 45. If I'm right next to the AP, it's often in the 60s. While trying to get the system set up, I never had more than 20 feet between the AP and the controller (or AP & receiver, which, again, was wired).

My other wireless devices (Dell laptops, eee PC, and Nokia N-series phone) are able to connect easily from anywhere in my house.

I contacted Support and they say they're going to send me out a new system. If that one works right away, then I'll know quickly whether it was a hardware problem.

@lex
2008-03-26, 13:01
I have to be home to try things out. As I remember i can't see or control SBR from Web Interface (SqueezeCenter). I will return later :-)

Hello, now I'm back home.
I think and hope, that I have sorted out my network problems now :-)
It seems now, that 3 SB3 Classic and 1 SBR can be controlled by SBC completely, fast and reliable (covers updates immediately on SBC when changing track in a playlist, thumbnails shows fast in album list etc.).

SqueezeCenter is running on my laptop sometimes wired and sometimes wireless. Both interfaces (Mac adresses) appeared in the router client list with same hostname and different IP-adress. I turned off the wireless on the laptop and restarted my router and SBC. SBC connects throug wired SBR.

I have also upgradet SqueezeCenter to nightly beta-update and controller was also updated. I have also moved SBR and connected to switch by a short cable. But I think, that it was turning off the wireless interface on the laptop, that solved the problem. (This maybe also explains the "situation 2" above).

Any comments or further explanations on this?

Best regards

@lex

fireupthegrill
2008-03-26, 22:46
I have also upgradet SqueezeCenter to nightly beta-update and controller was also updated.

Holy smokes! I updated the controller to jive_7.0.1_r2147.bin (the most recent nightly) by SD card, and all of a sudden the controller works _exactly_ as I'd hoped it would. Something was fixed in the last ~10 days.

Fingers crossed, but at the moment I'm very happy!

fireupthegrill
2008-03-27, 08:52
Fingers crossed, but at the moment I'm very happy!

Looks like I spoke too soon. This morning the controller had the dreaded "Please Wait" screen. After about 15 minutes watching the spinning circle, I power-cycled it, and it was back to its old ways -- dropping DHCP leases and packets all over the place.

Kim.T
2008-03-27, 14:44
I recieved my Duet Thusday - first I don't remember having any connection problems. My receiver is connected using a wire. There is no problems playing music. But since yesterday I feel that the controler is loosing the signal often - even when sitting in my study where my AP is.
I tried to upgrade Jive using wireless - but after over 20 attempts I gave up and found a MMC card. Half the times It could not connect and the other half the update got stuck in progress. After upgrading I saw no diff.

jrichardson
2008-04-03, 13:48
Looks like I spoke too soon. This morning the controller had the dreaded "Please Wait" screen. After about 15 minutes watching the spinning circle, I power-cycled it, and it was back to its old ways -- dropping DHCP leases and packets all over the place.

Fireupthegrill, ET.AL.

Can you please try the latest nightly firmware jive_7.0.1_r2166.bin, please respond if this firmware helps or fixes the issue. IF it does not, please indicate which AP is being used, including the FW version of the AP.

tday01
2008-04-03, 15:52
Can someone tell me how to upgrade the jive firmware seperately from the squeezecenter?

Thanks

Tony

jrichardson
2008-04-03, 16:07
Can someone tell me how to upgrade the jive firmware seperately from the squeezecenter?

Thanks

Tony

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SqueezeboxControllerSoftwareInstall

JimC
2008-04-03, 18:55
Can someone tell me how to upgrade the jive firmware seperately from the squeezecenter?

Thanks

Tony

You can find the .bin file here:

http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest/trunk/

jrichardson posted a link to the instructions for updating the Controller.


-=> Jim

jrichardson
2008-04-04, 09:39
I need to ask everyone having a Range Issue with their Controller, to please private message me the PID and MAC address of your controller, also the Version information (SC & PLayer) found in SC > Settings > Status

The PID and MAC can be found on a sticker in the battery compartment of your controller.

Thank you.