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JimC
2008-03-18, 10:54
As you may have seen from my earlier post, we're going to be migrating from kwiki to mediawiki. I'm currently going through some housekeeping in preparation for the Great Re-editing that will start later this week and I wanted to float a question to the community:

Should we change the categories at that top level of the wiki?

Currently, we have these categories:

General
* Beginners Guide
* Index of all the pages
Software:
* SqueezeCenter
* Third-Party SlimServer Plugins
* SoftSqueeze
* SqueezeOS & SqueezePlay (formerly known as Jive) - NEW
Services:
* SqueezeNetwork
Hardware: (overview)
* Squeezebox Duet
* Squeezebox Controller
* Squeezebox Receiver
* Transporter
* Squeezebox v3
* Squeezebox2
* Squeezebox
* SLIMP3

I'm a big believer in the idea of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but I'm not sure these categories address the needs of our users as well as they should. That's just my opinion, though, so I'd like to use this as an opportunity to solicit YOUR opinions on how we should categorize the new wiki.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!


-=> Jim

Robin Bowes
2008-03-18, 11:10
JimC wrote:
> As you may have seen from my earlier post, we're going to be migrating
> from kwiki to mediawiki. I'm currently going through some housekeeping
> in preparation for the Great Re-editing that will start later this week
> and I wanted to float a question to the community:
>
> Should we change the categories at that top level of the wiki?
>
> Currently, we have these categories:
>
> General
> * Beginners Guide
> * Index of all the pages
> Software:
> * SqueezeCenter
> * Third-Party SlimServer Plugins
> * SoftSqueeze
> * SqueezeOS & SqueezePlay (formerly known as Jive) - NEW
> Services:
> * SqueezeNetwork
> Hardware: (overview)
> * Squeezebox Duet
> * Squeezebox Controller
> * Squeezebox Receiver
> * Transporter
> * Squeezebox v3
> * Squeezebox2
> * Squeezebox
> * SLIMP3
>
> I'm a big believer in the idea of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it",
> but I'm not sure these categories address the needs of our users as
> well as they should. That's just my opinion, though, so I'd like to
> use this as an opportunity to solicit YOUR opinions on how we should
> categorize the new wiki.
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback!

The categories are very Slim Devices-centric, i.e. they're OK if you
know your way around.

It might be an idea to make it a little more friendly to new visitors.

R.

radish
2008-03-18, 11:34
I'd put more links up top from the Beginners Guide. There's a ton of pages linked from there which are very useful, and not just to beginners. Often We should look at what people typically ask about and make sure those links are obvious on the front page. Off the top of my head that would be artwork, tagging, file formats, network topologies/server installs.

erland
2008-03-18, 11:40
Should we change the categories at that top level of the wiki?

1.
The "Third-Party SlimServer Plugins" entry should probably be named SqueezeCenter instead of SlimServer

2.
What about third party skins, third party clients, third party applets for SqueezePlay ?
It might be suitable to either name the top level entry "Third party software" or divide it into several entries.

3.
I would like some place to put setup tutorials that explains how to setup different things, specifically I'm thinking of how to accomplish different things with combination of several third party plugins.
Basically, I would like to move everything I currently have on my own wiki regarding this to the new Logitech wiki:
http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer_Configuration_Examples

It might also be a good idea to think about the structure under third party plugins, it would be really useful if it was possible to enter some more information for each plugin not just a link to the developer site. Personally I would like to move the stuff regarding my own plugins that now is stored on my own wiki to the new Logitech wiki:
http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer_Plugins

This information needs to be easy to find, I suppose it could be put under a new "Third party software" entry or under the "SqueezeCenter" entry, but I'm not sure if a new user will be able to find it in either places.

4.
A "Do It Yourself" or "Customization projects" or some similar section would be interesting in addition to the DIY forum that currently exist. Making explanations about finished DIY projects available on the wiki will make them easier to find than in the current DIY forum where they are hidden among all other DIY stuff.

5.
Maybe it would be suitable to have a "Developers guide" or something similar on the top menu to make it easier to find the developer related stuff which is now found in various places.

JJZolx
2008-03-18, 12:08
Maybe a little more in the way of links for beginners... "Installing SqueezeCenter", "How to get Help".

A direct link or two to the Developers' area might be be good.

The index of all the pages is pretty much useless. Not a bad thing to have, but no need for a link at the top level.

You might list Pandora, Rhapsody, Slacker and etc. under Services.

FAQs? Maybe that's another topic - whether FAQs should be contained and maintained in the Wiki. The current FAQ system is pretty bad. Most or all frequently asked questions will be answered in some depth within the Wiki. Following a short answer to the question, links to additional info in the Wiki could be provided.

danco
2008-03-18, 12:08
For the plugins I would like to see an alphabetical listing as well as the section listings.

The section listing is useful when one wants to know if there are plugins that do what one wants.

But if (this was especially relevant in moving from SS 6.5 to SC 7, but can occur on other upgrades) the question is "does the plugin I have work with the new Slim Software" it can be an effort to find the right category in which to look for the plugin and check it.

Zaragon
2008-03-18, 13:42
I was thinking that if you're not sure about what you are looking for then you tend to go looking for what it is you are trying to do. So perhaps the top level should be structured around the user experience of getting a new SB installation.

Of course as soon as you get past the top level you can end up in the same place as you might have done from a different top level but that is one of the good things about a Wiki.

How about the following. In some ways it is the same as it is now but with different heading terms. But instead of the focus being on the items it's on "how".

What do I need
*Squeezebox
*Computers
*Network
*Wireless
*Internet access
Installing the software
*SqueezeCentre
*Upgrading
*My Squeezebox wants a firmware upgrade
Installing your SqueezeBox
Adding a plug-in
Using Internet services
Learn more about the devices
*Duet
*Transporter
*Classic
What if it goes wrong
*Basic fault finding
*Wrestling with wireless
*Making the library behave
*I'm out I want my music!
*I said this, but it said that! (Tags)
What's under the covers
*How it works
*Developers Guides

kolding
2008-03-18, 14:07
For the plugins I would like to see an alphabetical listing as well as the section listings.

The section listing is useful when one wants to know if there are plugins that do what one wants.

But if (this was especially relevant in moving from SS 6.5 to SC 7, but can occur on other upgrades) the question is "does the plugin I have work with the new Slim Software" it can be an effort to find the right category in which to look for the plugin and check it.

It would also be nice to understand what direction you're going with some sort of plugin management, and tie that in with the Wiki if at all possible. I know the idea of a plugin manager and automatic installation/download/upgrade has been batted around for future versions of Squeezecenter, but haven't seen much about it in a while.

Eric

JimC
2008-03-18, 18:03
1.
The "Third-Party SlimServer Plugins" entry should probably be named SqueezeCenter instead of SlimServer

2.
What about third party skins, third party clients, third party applets for SqueezePlay ?
It might be suitable to either name the top level entry "Third party software" or divide it into several entries.


I was thinking of a meta-category called "Third-party add-ons" (or something similar), with subcategories for SqueezeCenter Plug-in, SqueezeCenter Skins, Squeezebox Controller Applets, and so on.



3.
I would like some place to put setup tutorials that explains how to setup different things, specifically I'm thinking of how to accomplish different things with combination of several third party plugins.
Basically, I would like to move everything I currently have on my own wiki regarding this to the new Logitech wiki:
http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer_Configuration_Examples

It might also be a good idea to think about the structure under third party plugins, it would be really useful if it was possible to enter some more information for each plugin not just a link to the developer site. Personally I would like to move the stuff regarding my own plugins that now is stored on my own wiki to the new Logitech wiki:
http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer_Plugins

This information needs to be easy to find, I suppose it could be put under a new "Third party software" entry or under the "SqueezeCenter" entry, but I'm not sure if a new user will be able to find it in either places.


We could use a mediawiki template to provide a structure that would encourage developers to provide a full set of information about their app/plug-in/skin/etc. I'm not that familiar with their templates, but I'm thinking that might be a good way to get consistent information.

If anyone out there does know mediawiki templates, let me know if you think this could work.



4.
A "Do It Yourself" or "Customization projects" or some similar section would be interesting in addition to the DIY forum that currently exist. Making explanations about finished DIY projects available on the wiki will make them easier to find than in the current DIY forum where they are hidden among all other DIY stuff.


Excellent idea. I think we should definitely add this category.



5.
Maybe it would be suitable to have a "Developers guide" or something similar on the top menu to make it easier to find the developer related stuff which is now found in various places.

I was thinking that we might create an entirely separate namespace for the Developer Wiki... that seems--on the surface, anyway--to allow for the end user-oriented wiki not to appear overly complicated, while maintaining the ability to search across the entire wiki (or constrain it to the section you want to search).

Mediawiki uses namespaces for separating policy pages/discussion from content pages/discussion. They view it as public viewing and viewing intended for your editing community, which sounds a *lot* like what we want to accomplish; just replace "policy" with "how the SqueezeCenter sausage is made" and we're in alignment.


-=> Jim

JimC
2008-03-18, 18:10
Maybe a little more in the way of links for beginners... "Installing SqueezeCenter", "How to get Help".

A direct link or two to the Developers' area might be be good.

The index of all the pages is pretty much useless. Not a bad thing to have, but no need for a link at the top level.

You might list Pandora, Rhapsody, Slacker and etc. under Services.

FAQs? Maybe that's another topic - whether FAQs should be contained and maintained in the Wiki. The current FAQ system is pretty bad. Most or all frequently asked questions will be answered in some depth within the Wiki. Following a short answer to the question, links to additional info in the Wiki could be provided.

We are definitely looking to simplify the process of finding valuable info, so using descriptive categories would be a good idea.

I was also thinking of importing all of the Owner's Guide / User Guides as non-editable pages in the wiki, putting them under a "Documenation" or "Manuals" category. This would be in addition to the PDF versions, so would this be overkill in your estimation?

On the question of FAQs, I'm not 100% sure yet. Right now, Logitech's official FAQs are maintained by our Worldwide Customer Support group, so they can be translated, etc. I'd love to have community involvement in developing, improving and maintaining them, but I don't yet know if we can make that happen. Certainly something to think about...


-=> Jim

JimC
2008-03-18, 18:13
I was thinking that if you're not sure about what you are looking for then you tend to go looking for what it is you are trying to do. So perhaps the top level should be structured around the user experience of getting a new SB installation.

Of course as soon as you get past the top level you can end up in the same place as you might have done from a different top level but that is one of the good things about a Wiki.

How about the following. In some ways it is the same as it is now but with different heading terms. But instead of the focus being on the items it's on "how".

What do I need
*Squeezebox
*Computers
*Network
*Wireless
*Internet access
Installing the software
*SqueezeCentre
*Upgrading
*My Squeezebox wants a firmware upgrade
Installing your SqueezeBox
Adding a plug-in
Using Internet services
Learn more about the devices
*Duet
*Transporter
*Classic
What if it goes wrong
*Basic fault finding
*Wrestling with wireless
*Making the library behave
*I'm out I want my music!
*I said this, but it said that! (Tags)
What's under the covers
*How it works
*Developers Guides

I like this friendlier approach!

I'm going to pull together everyone's feedback in the next day or so and put together a high-level category framework. I'm leaning very heavily toward your approach, in terms of style (if not the exact content).


-=> Jim

ceejay
2008-03-19, 01:23
Jim

One thing to watch out for when coming up with the new structure - you need to be clear about the level of detail that you are going to deal with in any one place/page. On any topic you can think of, there will be a lot of detail which people will want to know ... but if you throw all that detail at someone who is just starting out, looking for some simple answers, you will very quickly lose them (see most wikis on Linux for examples of this!!).

Another thing to remember is that if you over-structure all the information, it becomes useless to someone whose understanding is not sufficient to make sense of the structure you've defined. This is a bit like the problem with a lot of FAQ systems - if you can't phrase the question, you never find the answer. This was the thinking behind the structure of the current Beginners Guide pages which are deliberately written as a narrative - the only thing you need to know before you start is that you are a "beginner". I'd hate to lose that...

I thnk there may be as many as three different levels of information:
3 - the really detailed stuff
2 - a simplified how-to guide
1 - a narrative overview

Just a few thoughts.....

Ceejay

funkstar
2008-03-19, 03:13
I've only really skimmed this thread, so someone might have already covered my ideas :)

There is a lot of articles under the Beginers section that aren't really just for beginers. I'd like to see them labled as guides instead. Like Guide to Tagging, Guide to EAC etc.

JimC
2008-03-19, 11:10
Jim

One thing to watch out for when coming up with the new structure - you need to be clear about the level of detail that you are going to deal with in any one place/page. On any topic you can think of, there will be a lot of detail which people will want to know ... but if you throw all that detail at someone who is just starting out, looking for some simple answers, you will very quickly lose them (see most wikis on Linux for examples of this!!).

Another thing to remember is that if you over-structure all the information, it becomes useless to someone whose understanding is not sufficient to make sense of the structure you've defined. This is a bit like the problem with a lot of FAQ systems - if you can't phrase the question, you never find the answer. This was the thinking behind the structure of the current Beginners Guide pages which are deliberately written as a narrative - the only thing you need to know before you start is that you are a "beginner". I'd hate to lose that...

I thnk there may be as many as three different levels of information:
3 - the really detailed stuff
2 - a simplified how-to guide
1 - a narrative overview

Just a few thoughts.....

Ceejay

Not to worry, ceejay, we're keeping the "Beginner's Guide" category. To address the other comments about good information being available only under the Beginner's Guide, we can use multiple categories to make that info appear in other places.

For example, if we use [[Category:Beginners Guide]] [Category:Ripping]], it has two paths from the ToC to the content.


-=> Jim

mvalera
2008-03-19, 15:07
Hey everyone,

I just wanted you to know that the current wiki is locked for editing. We are going to do an export of the old content to the new wiki today/tomorrow, so we can have it up and running by this Friday.

Mike

Zaragon
2008-03-19, 16:01
Some thoughts on page sizes and layout. Many people that are looking for help will probably be using two browsers so that they can see what they are reading for help as well as the thing they want help on.

I'd guess that they will use a browser size around about 800 pixels tall (based on a 17/19 inch screen). This will allow them to easily switch between windows and let them see a little of both.

I then suggest a newspaper trick of above the fold. Try and keep the important information in the top half of the page without needing to scroll.

If someone isn't quite sure what they are looking for they will decide if the page is what they are looking for very quickly based on what they see without scrolling. Think of the way you use search engines and check out the pages returned.

As CeeJay said that style starting with a simple narrative leading deeper as the user gains confidence and experience is more approachable.