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ElFishi
2008-03-11, 05:39
Does anyone but Logitech ship Transporters from US to Europe?

At the current exchange rate you can buy them in the US for 1300 EUR while Logitech sells them in Europe for close to 2000 EUR.

I'd consider one for the first price, not for the latter.

funkstar
2008-03-11, 06:48
This has been covered in numerous threads in the past.

Basically it comes down to several factors:
1. Incresed taxes in the EU compaired to the US
2. Increase in the cost of doing business in the EU, meaning the markup has to be higher
3. They can charge more so they do. Simple business sense.

ElFishi
2008-03-11, 07:22
1. VAT e.g. in Germany is 19%, even if the TP was priced w/o VAT it brings the price only up to 1500.
2. Logitech is a European company, what is the extra cost of doing business here?
3. Openly discriminating against groups of customers alienates them. To me that's the opposite of business sense. Of course Logitech is free to choose the price point where they maximise their profit. I find it hard to believe though that this price point should differ by 700 EUR between the two customer bases.

I'd be happy to read up on previous coverage of the subject if you could point it out to me.

Fifer
2008-03-11, 07:55
Although tax and economies of scale for the larger unified US market are factors, I think the difference is more a function of the extremely weak dollar at the moment and the level Logitech have to pitch the Transporter to sell it in the US (although my Euro calculation from the UK price is 1830, not 2000).

The disparity isn't greatly different to the relative prices of technology goods. An 80GB iPod classic is just over 160 in the US but is 208 in the UK.

ElFishi
2008-03-11, 08:17
Just looked it up on the logitech site. TP goes for 1399 GBP, which is currently 1830 EUR. Maybe I should just pick one up there.

Coming back to my initial question: The price differential is real, is there anyone capitalizing on it?

slimkid
2008-03-11, 08:39
This question comes and goes from time to time. What nobody seemed to have addressed so far are corporate taxes and cost of doing business. Without getting into it too deep, just a couple of questions for people in various economies:

- what is a typical length of paid vacation and other emplyment benefits in EU or Australia, compared to US?

- what are typical social benefits (wellfare, unemplyment, sick leave, retirement rules and funding ...) in Europe/Australia compared to US?

Where do you think the money is coming from?

And the bonus question. Do you think it's moral to mail order from Logitech US, and then pick up your child benefit check partially funded by Logitech Australia? And morality aside, would it make business sense for Logitech corp. to support that?

Runs for cover,

K

ElFishi
2008-03-11, 09:27
Actually I just wanted to know whether there is somebody to pick up the money from the price differential. Or put differently: where is globalization when you need it?

As for slimkids questions:
I pay for my extensive annual leave by accepting crap pay.
I pay for my social benefits by having half of my paycheck sent to compulsory insurances (and the taxman) without me ever getting my hands on my money. I know where it all comes from: me.
Do I have to accept crap consumer goods prices on top of it? Sounds like a double whammy.

And for the bonus question: the unit likely gets built in China anyway (do they have health insurance there?) What is morality?

peter
2008-03-11, 09:56
slimkid wrote:
> This question comes and goes from time to time. What nobody seemed to
> have addressed so far are corporate taxes and cost of doing business.
> Without getting into it too deep, just a couple of questions for people
> in various economies:
>
> - what is a typical length of paid vacation and other emplyment
> benefits in EU or Australia, compared to US?
>
> - what are typical social benefits (wellfare, unemplyment, sick leave,
> retirement rules and funding ...) in Europe/Australia compared to US?
>
> Where do you think the money is coming from?
>
> And the bonus question. Do you think it's moral to mail order from
> Logitech US, and then pick up your child benefit check partially funded
> by Logitech Australia? And morality aside, would it make business sense
> for Logitech corp. to support that?
>

Wow, did you ever take any economics classes?
Have you done any of your insightful comparisons with China?

Regards,
Peter

st2lemans
2008-03-11, 23:50
>- what are typical social benefits (wellfare, unemplyment, sick leave,

We pay taxes for those. The employer doesn't pay (at least not in
Switzerland).

> retirement rules and funding ...)

Also employee paid.

In general, Swiss taxes and benefits are lower than the US,.

So, the only reason the prices are higher here is because people will
pay the higher prices. To blame it on taxes or the cost of doing
business is absurd. And it's not just Logitech, look at Ducati. Same
thing, much cheaper to buy one in the US. Ans some models (but not all)
are actually cheaper in Switzerland than in Italy where they are made.
> And the bonus question. Do you think it's moral to mail order from
> Logitech US, and then pick up your child benefit check partially funded
> by Logitech Australia?
Sure, as no Logitech company is funding any of my benefits.

Tom

slimkid
2008-03-12, 12:27
>- what are typical social benefits (wellfare, unemplyment, sick leave,

We pay taxes for those. The employer doesn't pay (at least not in
Switzerland).

> retirement rules and funding ...)

Also employee paid.

In general, Swiss taxes and benefits are lower than the US,.

So, the only reason the prices are higher here is because people will
pay the higher prices. To blame it on taxes or the cost of doing
business is absurd. And it's not just Logitech, look at Ducati. Same
thing, much cheaper to buy one in the US. Ans some models (but not all)
are actually cheaper in Switzerland than in Italy where they are made.
> And the bonus question. Do you think it's moral to mail order from
> Logitech US, and then pick up your child benefit check partially funded
> by Logitech Australia?
Sure, as no Logitech company is funding any of my benefits.

Tom

Thks for taking time to think about it without resorting to cynical personal attacks. However, I'll have to ask you to review your facts. It turns out that, in Switzerland, employer tops up by 100% whatever amount emplyee have to contribute, and then some more.

http://www.bioalps.org/Bioalps/FHomePageBioalps.aspx?tokenPage=h-ciecAdyG10SYrFQTu01AdheI4rxKjQhEPfTrvysX0%29%29

My point on whole this excercise is that there are many areas that can influence a price, and that we, unless deailing with it, may not be avare of them and tend to ignore them. In my post, I merely suggested that some other aspects are taken into consideration.

Having said that, I do believe that the main reaason why companies charge what they do in certain market is because they can (or in case of US, because they have to if they want to be there).

thks,

K

adamslim
2008-03-12, 15:41
Have you looked up the price in Switzerland? IIRC it was rather cheap there - I think it was about 900, which is even lower than the US$ price. But you gotta find a dealer who has stock.

This issue irritated me so much I bought a competing product (albeit one that give SD a SB3 sale). From what I can tell I make a good sonic choice too :)

ElFishi
2008-03-13, 00:22
Thanks for the tip.
Shopping around some swiss internet price comparisons does reveal competitive prices. Let's see if I can get something organized...

st2lemans
2008-03-13, 01:06
At Logitech's site, CHF2999.

But don't forget, if you get it shipped to the EU, you will have to pay
EU taxes (which are much higher than Swiss taxes).

Tom

ElFishi
2008-03-13, 02:02
things like
http://www.preissuchmaschine.ch/product_388105.html
look much more encouraging than logitech.
Of course I'm aware of duties. But then again Switzerland features or is quite near many a decent vacation destinations...

smc2911
2008-03-13, 02:27
As noted above, this topic has come up before with similar explanations posted for price differences.

Basically it comes down to several factors:
1. Incresed taxes in the EU compaired to the US
2. Increase in the cost of doing business in the EU, meaning the markup has to be higher
3. They can charge more so they do. Simple business sense.
1. Differences in VAT, sales taxes can certainly lead to regional price variation, but nothing on the scale of the Logitech price differences.
2. How much does it cost to operate an ecommerce website which, in many cases, is the extent of the local Logitech presence?
3. This is the most plausible explanation, although more on this below.


things like
http://www.preissuchmaschine.ch/product_388105.html
look much more encouraging than logitech.
This is where it gets interesting. A bit of web-surfing shows that in many countries there are distributors offering the SqueezeBox range at prices that pretty much the local currency equivalent of the US price. That's certainly what I have found in Australia. If any of the explanations I've seen posited in various posts here and in other threads (other than 3 above) held water, surely it would mean these distributors would be selling at prices much closer to the Logitech local price. So although Logitech can obviously charge what they like, at current prices they are unlikely to sell many units directly outside of the US. So it would seem that they would prefer to give the retail margin to the other distributors and just pick up the wholesale margin.

EDIT: silly typo - wrote Australia meant US!

peter
2008-03-13, 02:53
slimkid wrote:
> Thks for taking time to think about it without resorting to cynical
> personal attacks. However, I'll have to ask you to review your facts.
> It turns out that, in Switzerland, employer tops up by 100% whatever
> amount emplyee have to contribute, and then some more.
>
> http://www.bioalps.org/Bioalps/FHomePageBioalps.aspx?tokenPage=h-ciecAdyG10SYrFQTu01AdheI4rxKjQhEPfTrvysX0%29%29
>
> My point on whole this excercise is that there are many areas that can
> influence a price, and that we, unless deailing with it, may not be
> avare of them and tend to ignore them. In my post, I merely suggested
> that some other aspects are taken into consideration.
>

Nonsense, the only relevant aspects are taxes and transport costs.

> Having said that, I do believe that the main reaason why companies
> charge what they do in certain market is because they can (or in case
> of US, because they have to if they want to be there).
>

Not enough competition. On other networking equipment the price
differences are minimal (if taxes are taken into account). In the end
it's the resellers that set the end price, if they feel they can get a
away with 399 EUR for a Duet ( $520 excl. taxes at 1.55 dollars for a
Euro ) they will charge it.

Regards,
Peter

radish
2008-03-13, 06:07
I've said this before in other similar threads - why do you expect to get the best price from the official store? That doesn't happen for anything else so why for logitech? If I want to buy some gadget the absoloute last place I'd look for a deal would be the manufacturers online store, unless no-one else sold it (as used to be the case with SD).

ElFishi
2008-03-13, 09:02
My grievance started from the fact that price in the official store in Germany is over a thousand dollars higher than in the US. It still escapes me why Logitech think this is a good idea.
Unfortunately I could not find a retailer in Germany that makes a substantially better price. The Swiss example tells me however, that there is hope (and no fundamental issues as some here imply).