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JOHN MOYLAN
2004-02-11, 03:31
Hello David.

>>er...I'm not going to get into those aspects.
Just to throw water on burning oil...
If you do go for mp3 be sure to use LAME for encoding.
http://lame.sourceforge.net/

For Windows use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) with lame.exe (FREE)
For Linux use GRIP (FREE)
For Mac use the iTunes Lame applescript 'thing' (blacktree.com I think)
(FREE) or Audion (has Lame built in...NOT FREE)

I'm in the same boat as you at the moment as I haven't started yet...to FLAC
or not to FLAC
john


-----Original Message-----
From: David Cullen [mailto:slimp3 (AT) another-perspective (DOT) net]
Sent: 11 February 2004 10:20
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] Newbie questions


>er...I'm not going to get into those aspects.

LOL!! I understand ;-)

Thanks for the tips. Having tested 192kbps MP3 I could notice a discernable
loss of clarity via my hifi. At 320kbps it was virtually negligble. Will do
some tests with other formats too.

Thanks again
David

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com]On Behalf Of kdf
Sent: 11 February 2004 09:25
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] Newbie questions


Quoting David Cullen <slimp3 (AT) another-perspective (DOT) net>:

> thanks kdf.
>
> sorry to be so green but if ogg gets converted to 320kbps MP3 before being
> sent to the slimp3 player what is the advantage of ripping and storing in
> .ogg format rather than 320kbps MP3?
it is converted on the fly, and only to mp3 for slimp3 players. Squeezebox
will
play back from a raw PCM stream. the format benefits for storage depend on
preference, and what other players you might use, and perhaps to some extent
religious beliefs ;).

> Does the file size end up smaller for the same quality?
> Or some other reason?

er...I'm not going to get into those aspects. Everyone has a preference, so
slimserver supports as many input formats as code can be created to handle.

> Very pleased with my slimp3 - just trying to work out the best format to
rip
> all my cds and lps to before I do too many. As I have about 700 lps and
cds
> it could be a long process so want to get it right!

It all depends on what you have for storage, and what you require for
listening
quality. mp3, ogg etc are lossy codecs, so you DO lose some of the
information
that makes up your recording. There are lossless codecs like FLAC and
Shorten
which preserve every bit of your audio files, but they take up a lot more
space.
mp3's done at 128 kbps are about 10:1 compression, while FLAC seems to be
between 2:1 and 3:1. Your results may vary. Personally, I dont find that
128kbps mp3's are good enough, so my collection is ripped at 192kpbs
Variable
bit rate. Having a bit more storage now, than I did then, I'm planning to
rerip
my cd's to FLAC so that they have the best immunity to obsolescence of
codecs
and future designs. I still need mp3's since my portable player only plays
mp3.

-kdf

Pat Farrell
2004-02-11, 09:54
At 05:31 AM 2/11/2004, JOHN MOYLAN wrote:
>For Windows use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) with lame.exe (FREE)

I just re-extracted and compressed my whole CD collection, 500+ CDs
to support my Squeezebox (which I love).

I bought ($$) MusicMatch Jukebox because of its faster extraction.
I tried EAC because it is free. I ended up using CDex (also free)
because both MMJ and EAC seemed to get progressively slower,
more resource intensive with each CD. So they were blindly fast with
the first couple of CDs, but progressively slower and slower
on the 20th, 50th, etc.

>I'm in the same boat as you at the moment as I haven't started yet...to
>FLAC or not to FLAC

I use FLAC. For a couple of reasons, YMMV, etc. I use my Squeezebox connected
to my serious stereo. $2000 amps, $4000 speakers, $200 interconnects, etc.
(I even plan to get an outboard DAC if I get tired of the quality of the
Squeezebox's
internal, but so far, it is fine).

Second, disks are cheap. My whole collection fit on 300 GB of disks.
Since I bought a 200GB disk new for $105, the cost "savings" for a higher
compression system translates into trivial savings in hardware.

Three, since it is lossless, I can change my mind later Things like
uncompressing them and then making an MP3 version for a MP3 walkman.
Of even making a red book CD for my truck's CD player.

Fourth, I don't have to make any quality versus size decisions.
There are audible differences, especially on a serious stereo, between
different compression ratios (rates, encodings) with MP3. Because of #2,
I decided I didn't want to make those engineering decisions.

I used FLACFrontEnd (free) to compress and tag the .wav files into flac on my
Windows workstation. (the slimserver is a linux box)
It has a decent add on, "tag.exe" that adds the proper "ogg" tags
(the Ogg/Flac equivalent of ID3 tags).

This process takes a long time. Took maybe a week of working at it
while I read my email, surfed the web, etc. I found that the most time
effective
approach was to do all the CD extraction separately from the compression.
So I'd extract with CDex during the day, and then tell FLACfrontend to
compress and tag all night. It usually was done when I got up.

All my attempts to extract and compress at the same time
ended up taking longer. The two tasks seem to interfere with each other,
so running them together took much, much longer than running on, and then
running the other.

HTH

Pat

Caleb Epstein
2004-02-11, 10:06
On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 11:54:48AM -0500, Pat Farrell wrote:

> because both MMJ and EAC seemed to get progressively slower, more
> resource intensive with each CD. So they were blindly fast with the
> first couple of CDs, but progressively slower and slower on the
> 20th, 50th, etc.

Thats weird. I've never seen EAC behave like this, but I've
probably never ripped more than 10-20 CDs without stopping EAC
and restarting it.

> I use FLAC.

Seconded. Thanks to SlimDevices for supporting FLAC on the
Squeezebox and Digital Networks for supporting it on my new
Rio Karma. I don't need to make MP3s to take my music on the
road any more, and my music sounds noticeably better. I
didn't think I'd be able to hear the difference on the
portable player, but I can.

> I used FLACFrontEnd (free) to compress and tag the .wav files into
> flac on my Windows workstation. (the slimserver is a linux box) It
> has a decent add on, "tag.exe" that adds the proper "ogg" tags (the
> Ogg/Flac equivalent of ID3 tags).

EAC does a fine job of this as well. I prefer it as my
standalone FLAC ripper.

> All my attempts to extract and compress at the same time ended up
> taking longer. The two tasks seem to interfere with each other, so
> running them together took much, much longer than running on, and
> then running the other.

What is your PC spec? I have no trouble with EAC ripping and
compressing FLAC simultaneously, though I limit the number of
simultaneous compression tasks to 1.

--
Caleb Epstein | bklyn . org |
cae at | Brooklyn Dust | Can I have an IMPULSE ITEM instead?
bklyn dot org | Bunny Mfg. |

Pat Farrell
2004-02-11, 10:10
At 12:06 PM 2/11/2004, Caleb Epstein wrote:
>On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 11:54:48AM -0500, Pat Farrell wrote:
> Thats weird. I've never seen EAC behave like this, but I've
> probably never ripped more than 10-20 CDs without stopping EAC
> and restarting it.

I've got a fast TDK drive, it is easy to do 30 or 50 in a sitting.
But it was no big deal to use CDex.


> What is your PC spec? I have no trouble with EAC ripping and
> compressing FLAC simultaneously, though I limit the number of
> simultaneous compression tasks to 1.

It is a Dell P3 933, 512MB ram, W2k.
It was not a big deal, doing it in batches let the computer do something while
I slept.

Pat

Wayne Mery
2004-02-11, 10:43
On 2/11/2004 11:54 AM, Pat Farrell wrote:
>.
> Three, since it is lossless, I can change my mind later Things like
> uncompressing them and then making an MP3 version for a MP3 walkman.
> Of even making a red book CD for my truck's CD player.

What might one use to make MP3 tracks from Flac?

Would one have to fiddle with ID tags, or will they move automatically
to the MP3?

--
Thanks
Wayne

Pat Farrell
2004-02-11, 11:25
At 12:43 PM 2/11/2004, Wayne Mery wrote:
>On 2/11/2004 11:54 AM, Pat Farrell wrote:
>>uncompressing them and then making an MP3 version for a MP3 walkman.
>>Of even making a red book CD for my truck's CD player.
>
>What might one use to make MP3 tracks from Flac?
>Would one have to fiddle with ID tags, or will they move automatically to
>the MP3?

You can use a transcoder utility, or just manually use FLAC to decompress
back to a .wav and then use whatever MP3 compressor you like.
This is a prime beauty of FLAC files, you can restore them exactly to
the WAV files you started with, at any time, and then have your way with
them.

I'm sure that you can find a utility to manage the tags. FLAC and ogg do
not use
"ID3" tags, they have a "better" alternative. It works the same.

Pat