PDA

View Full Version : Perf tuning for internet radio ?



Mike Beranek
2004-02-09, 22:36
Hello

I am using nullsoft shoutcast server with spacialaudio mp3pro encoders to
stream TV audio via a LAN to a SLIMP3 (kinda like a personal intranet radio
station).

Problem is even at low bit (16 kbps mono) rates, the buffers on the SLIMP3
never seem to fill properly and jittery playback is heard. I've restarted
the Slim service, and that seems to help, but not for long. Are there some
tuning parameters on the server/player I should be utilizing to increase the
buffer size for better inter/intranet radio stream management?

The shoutcast server can stream to my laptop (winamp or mediaplayer) w/o
problems - so my server/stream seems "good".

Perhaps intra/internet radio is "broken" for now (?) Appreciate any input.

Using 2/8/2004 nightly build on a 2.2 Firmware S3.

Mike Beranek
2004-02-10, 14:42
Since internet radio seems to be broken in the 5.1 build, can someone tell
me if there is a previous build where internet radio works for them? I'm
ready to go back as far as I have to in order to get it to play.
Thanks,
Mike

"Mike Beranek" <beranek (AT) us (DOT) ibm.com> wrote in
message news:c09ql5$ubj$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org...
> Hello
>
> I am using nullsoft shoutcast server with spacialaudio mp3pro encoders to
> stream TV audio via a LAN to a SLIMP3 (kinda like a personal intranet
radio
> station).
>
> Problem is even at low bit (16 kbps mono) rates, the buffers on the SLIMP3
> never seem to fill properly and jittery playback is heard. I've
restarted
> the Slim service, and that seems to help, but not for long. Are there
some
> tuning parameters on the server/player I should be utilizing to increase
the
> buffer size for better inter/intranet radio stream management?
>
> The shoutcast server can stream to my laptop (winamp or mediaplayer) w/o
> problems - so my server/stream seems "good".
>
> Perhaps intra/internet radio is "broken" for now (?) Appreciate any
input.
>
> Using 2/8/2004 nightly build on a 2.2 Firmware S3.

dean
2004-02-10, 15:14
Hi Mike,

We're trying hard to reproduce the problems that folks are having with
internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
little luck so far.

Kevin's trying to recreate the Shoutcast setup described below right
now. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it quickly.

Thanks,

dean

On Feb 10, 2004, at 1:42 PM, Mike Beranek wrote:

> Since internet radio seems to be broken in the 5.1 build, can someone
> tell
> me if there is a previous build where internet radio works for them?
> I'm
> ready to go back as far as I have to in order to get it to play.
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> "Mike Beranek" <beranek (AT) us (DOT) ibm.com> wrote in
> message news:c09ql5$ubj$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org...
>> Hello
>>
>> I am using nullsoft shoutcast server with spacialaudio mp3pro
>> encoders to
>> stream TV audio via a LAN to a SLIMP3 (kinda like a personal intranet
> radio
>> station).
>>
>> Problem is even at low bit (16 kbps mono) rates, the buffers on the
>> SLIMP3
>> never seem to fill properly and jittery playback is heard. I've
> restarted
>> the Slim service, and that seems to help, but not for long. Are there
> some
>> tuning parameters on the server/player I should be utilizing to
>> increase
> the
>> buffer size for better inter/intranet radio stream management?
>>
>> The shoutcast server can stream to my laptop (winamp or mediaplayer)
>> w/o
>> problems - so my server/stream seems "good".
>>
>> Perhaps intra/internet radio is "broken" for now (?) Appreciate any
> input.
>>
>> Using 2/8/2004 nightly build on a 2.2 Firmware S3.
>
>
>
>

Mike Beranek
2004-02-10, 15:40
Dean -

Thanks for the reply.

If you or Kevin need some assistance - trying a few things and/or collecting
some diagnostic data - I'd be glad to help out anyway that I can. You can
contact me directly at beranek18 (AT) comcast (DOT) net.

Regards,
Mike

"dean blackketter" <dean (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:879060B6-5C16-11D8-861E-000393DB3CFA (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com...
> Hi Mike,
>
> We're trying hard to reproduce the problems that folks are having with
> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
> little luck so far.
>
> Kevin's trying to recreate the Shoutcast setup described below right
> now. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it quickly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> dean
>
> On Feb 10, 2004, at 1:42 PM, Mike Beranek wrote:
>
> > Since internet radio seems to be broken in the 5.1 build, can someone
> > tell
> > me if there is a previous build where internet radio works for them?
> > I'm
> > ready to go back as far as I have to in order to get it to play.
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> > "Mike Beranek" <beranek (AT) us (DOT) ibm.com> wrote
in
> > message news:c09ql5$ubj$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org...
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> I am using nullsoft shoutcast server with spacialaudio mp3pro
> >> encoders to
> >> stream TV audio via a LAN to a SLIMP3 (kinda like a personal intranet
> > radio
> >> station).
> >>
> >> Problem is even at low bit (16 kbps mono) rates, the buffers on the
> >> SLIMP3
> >> never seem to fill properly and jittery playback is heard. I've
> > restarted
> >> the Slim service, and that seems to help, but not for long. Are there
> > some
> >> tuning parameters on the server/player I should be utilizing to
> >> increase
> > the
> >> buffer size for better inter/intranet radio stream management?
> >>
> >> The shoutcast server can stream to my laptop (winamp or mediaplayer)
> >> w/o
> >> problems - so my server/stream seems "good".
> >>
> >> Perhaps intra/internet radio is "broken" for now (?) Appreciate any
> > input.
> >>
> >> Using 2/8/2004 nightly build on a 2.2 Firmware S3.
> >
> >
> >
> >

Roy M. Silvernail
2004-02-10, 16:13
On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 17:14, dean blackketter wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> We're trying hard to reproduce the problems that folks are having with
> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
> little luck so far.
>
> Kevin's trying to recreate the Shoutcast setup described below right
> now. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it quickly.

FWIW, 5.1 is happily playing a Radio Paradise 128k stream for me right
now on a SB and a S3 with no apparent problems.

BTW, the elapsed time display on the SB is broken. It's sitting still
at -1089:33. The S3 is happily counting up from 0.
--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

dean
2004-02-11, 12:56
Roy,

Do you have the buffer-fullness performance option turned on? If so,
you can get it to display some crazy remaining-time values. Try
pressing the NOW PLAYING button and see if you get the right time
displayed.

-dean

On Feb 10, 2004, at 3:13 PM, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:

> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 17:14, dean blackketter wrote:
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> We're trying hard to reproduce the problems that folks are having with
>> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
>> little luck so far.
>>
>> Kevin's trying to recreate the Shoutcast setup described below right
>> now. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it quickly.
>
> FWIW, 5.1 is happily playing a Radio Paradise 128k stream for me right
> now on a SB and a S3 with no apparent problems.
>
> BTW, the elapsed time display on the SB is broken. It's sitting still
> at -1089:33. The S3 is happily counting up from 0.
> --
> Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
> Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
> SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
> http://www.rant-central.com
>
>

Roy M. Silvernail
2004-02-11, 13:19
dean blackketter said:
> Roy,
>
> Do you have the buffer-fullness performance option turned on?

Nope. I turned it off a week or so back after streaming was working again.

> If so,
> you can get it to display some crazy remaining-time values. Try
> pressing the NOW PLAYING button and see if you get the right time
> displayed.

Did that. I can get the time to disappear, but when visible, it doesn't
update and doesn't change.
--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
http://www.rant-central.com is the new scytale
Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss

dean
2004-02-11, 18:00
Hi Roy,

Hm, I can't reproduce that problem. What station are you listening to?

-dean

On Feb 11, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:

>
> dean blackketter said:
>> Roy,
>>
>> Do you have the buffer-fullness performance option turned on?
>
> Nope. I turned it off a week or so back after streaming was working
> again.
>
>> If so,
>> you can get it to display some crazy remaining-time values. Try
>> pressing the NOW PLAYING button and see if you get the right time
>> displayed.
>
> Did that. I can get the time to disappear, but when visible, it
> doesn't
> update and doesn't change.
> --
> Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
> http://www.rant-central.com is the new scytale
> Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
> SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
>
>

dean
2004-02-11, 18:10
I've just updated the latest nightly build, available here:

http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest

with a small change that might fix the radio problems that folks have
been seeing. (I say "might" because I can't reproduce it here, but
customer wrote in with a related patch that fixed a problem for him.)

Anybody who's still having problems with radio, I'd love to hear if
this fixes it...

Thanks,

dean

On Feb 10, 2004, at 2:40 PM, Mike Beranek wrote:

> Dean -
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> If you or Kevin need some assistance - trying a few things and/or
> collecting
> some diagnostic data - I'd be glad to help out anyway that I can. You
> can
> contact me directly at beranek18 (AT) comcast (DOT) net.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> "dean blackketter" <dean (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com> wrote in
> message news:879060B6-5C16-11D8-861E-000393DB3CFA (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com...
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> We're trying hard to reproduce the problems that folks are having with
>> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
>> little luck so far.
>>
>> Kevin's trying to recreate the Shoutcast setup described below right
>> now. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it quickly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> dean
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2004, at 1:42 PM, Mike Beranek wrote:
>>
>>> Since internet radio seems to be broken in the 5.1 build, can someone
>>> tell
>>> me if there is a previous build where internet radio works for them?
>>> I'm
>>> ready to go back as far as I have to in order to get it to play.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> "Mike Beranek" <beranek (AT) us (DOT) ibm.com> wrote
> in
>>> message news:c09ql5$ubj$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org...
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I am using nullsoft shoutcast server with spacialaudio mp3pro
>>>> encoders to
>>>> stream TV audio via a LAN to a SLIMP3 (kinda like a personal
>>>> intranet
>>> radio
>>>> station).
>>>>
>>>> Problem is even at low bit (16 kbps mono) rates, the buffers on the
>>>> SLIMP3
>>>> never seem to fill properly and jittery playback is heard. I've
>>> restarted
>>>> the Slim service, and that seems to help, but not for long. Are
>>>> there
>>> some
>>>> tuning parameters on the server/player I should be utilizing to
>>>> increase
>>> the
>>>> buffer size for better inter/intranet radio stream management?
>>>>
>>>> The shoutcast server can stream to my laptop (winamp or mediaplayer)
>>>> w/o
>>>> problems - so my server/stream seems "good".
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps intra/internet radio is "broken" for now (?) Appreciate any
>>> input.
>>>>
>>>> Using 2/8/2004 nightly build on a 2.2 Firmware S3.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Roy M. Silvernail
2004-02-11, 19:37
On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 20:00, dean blackketter wrote:
> Hi Roy,
>
> Hm, I can't reproduce that problem. What station are you listening to?

First noticed it on Radio Paradise, but I just checked 3 RP feeds, i.e.
Radio America, 3 different Soma FM streams and a couple of random
selections from the Shoutcast browser. Same deal on all of them, and it
makes no diff if I have buffer fullness on or off. With fullness on, I
can cycle through 6 distinct states of Now Playing: blank, time 1, time
2, bar, bar + time 1 and bar + time 2. Time 1 is -115:51 and time 2 is
-115:09 and they don't change. The same thing appears from
http://server:9000/status.txt?player=xxx. My SliMP3 behaves fine, with
time 1 ascending from 0 and time 2 descending from some arbitrary
number.

Latest public release server 5.1 and squeeze v7.
--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

Roy M. Silvernail
2004-02-12, 05:00
On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 20:10, dean blackketter wrote:
> I've just updated the latest nightly build, available here:
>
> http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest
>
> with a small change that might fix the radio problems that folks have
> been seeing. (I say "might" because I can't reproduce it here, but
> customer wrote in with a related patch that fixed a problem for him.)

Hey, the time display works on my SB again! Thanks, Dean!

> >> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with

LOL! Missed that one the first time through. (imagining Dean's corner
office atop a huge obelisk overlooking Mountain View, CA)m, :D
--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
Never Forget: It's Only 1's and 0's!
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

dean
2004-02-12, 08:13
On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:00 AM, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:

> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 20:10, dean blackketter wrote:
>> I've just updated the latest nightly build, available here:
>>
>> http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest
>>
>> with a small change that might fix the radio problems that folks have
>> been seeing. (I say "might" because I can't reproduce it here, but
>> customer wrote in with a related patch that fixed a problem for him.)
>
> Hey, the time display works on my SB again! Thanks, Dean!
Uh, ok. But that's not what we fixed. Weird. :)

>>>> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
>
> LOL! Missed that one the first time through. (imagining Dean's corner
> office atop a huge obelisk overlooking Mountain View, CA)m, :D

That's exactly right. :)

-dean

Mike Beranek
2004-02-13, 10:20
Hi Dean -

I did try it and things are different - but not fixed in my case.

I emailed this to Kevin after trying the 2/11 build.

Kevin -
I gave it a shot...and things are different but not much better. Before the
buffer was never full (using the SLIMP3 progress disp to show buffer
fullness). It was maybe 3 "boxes" max, then slowly starved away. Now the
buffer is full to start, plays good for maybe 10 seconds, then a short
(maybe 1/4 second) gap of "no music" is heard about every 5 seconds. While
this is happening, it seems that each time i hear the gap, the buffer
display gets smaller, i.e. the buffer is less full. Slowly this eats away as
well down to zero - and then we refill and repeat the process.

I did try the older 4.X build you suggested just to make sure I'm not going
crazy and it works fine. I think i have a fairly isolated environment (with
shoutcast, etc., across a LAN) to help debug this. Let me know if you need
anything else.

Regards and good luck fixing this problem. You've got a great product here
and I'm saving my $'s for a 2nd and 3rd S3.

Mike

"dean blackketter" <dean (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:4B8C1631-5CF8-11D8-9F03-000393DB3CFA (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com...
> I've just updated the latest nightly build, available here:
>
> http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest
>
> with a small change that might fix the radio problems that folks have
> been seeing. (I say "might" because I can't reproduce it here, but
> customer wrote in with a related patch that fixed a problem for him.)
>
> Anybody who's still having problems with radio, I'd love to hear if
> this fixes it...
>
> Thanks,
>
> dean
>
> On Feb 10, 2004, at 2:40 PM, Mike Beranek wrote:
>
> > Dean -
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > If you or Kevin need some assistance - trying a few things and/or
> > collecting
> > some diagnostic data - I'd be glad to help out anyway that I can. You
> > can
> > contact me directly at beranek18 (AT) comcast (DOT) net.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> > "dean blackketter" <dean (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com> wrote
in
> > message
news:879060B6-5C16-11D8-861E-000393DB3CFA (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com...
> >> Hi Mike,
> >>
> >> We're trying hard to reproduce the problems that folks are having with
> >> internet radio here at the Slim Devices World Headquarters, but with
> >> little luck so far.
> >>
> >> Kevin's trying to recreate the Shoutcast setup described below right
> >> now. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it quickly.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> dean
> >>
> >> On Feb 10, 2004, at 1:42 PM, Mike Beranek wrote:
> >>
> >>> Since internet radio seems to be broken in the 5.1 build, can someone
> >>> tell
> >>> me if there is a previous build where internet radio works for them?
> >>> I'm
> >>> ready to go back as far as I have to in order to get it to play.
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> "Mike Beranek" <beranek (AT) us (DOT) ibm.com> wrote
> > in
> >>> message news:c09ql5$ubj$1 (AT) sea (DOT) gmane.org...
> >>>> Hello
> >>>>
> >>>> I am using nullsoft shoutcast server with spacialaudio mp3pro
> >>>> encoders to
> >>>> stream TV audio via a LAN to a SLIMP3 (kinda like a personal
> >>>> intranet
> >>> radio
> >>>> station).
> >>>>
> >>>> Problem is even at low bit (16 kbps mono) rates, the buffers on the
> >>>> SLIMP3
> >>>> never seem to fill properly and jittery playback is heard. I've
> >>> restarted
> >>>> the Slim service, and that seems to help, but not for long. Are
> >>>> there
> >>> some
> >>>> tuning parameters on the server/player I should be utilizing to
> >>>> increase
> >>> the
> >>>> buffer size for better inter/intranet radio stream management?
> >>>>
> >>>> The shoutcast server can stream to my laptop (winamp or mediaplayer)
> >>>> w/o
> >>>> problems - so my server/stream seems "good".
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps intra/internet radio is "broken" for now (?) Appreciate any
> >>> input.
> >>>>
> >>>> Using 2/8/2004 nightly build on a 2.2 Firmware S3.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>