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NWP
2008-02-15, 23:44
Why does the play button clear my playlist? If I wanted to clear my playlist I'd clear it myself. Why doesn't it just add the song after the current song in the playlist and play it? Wouldn't that make more sense?

mherger
2008-02-16, 00:04
> Why does the play button clear my playlist? If I wanted to clear my
> playlist I'd clear it myself. Why doesn't it just add the song after
> the current song in the playlist and play it?

Because that's what the Add button is for.

Michael

peter
2008-02-16, 03:20
NWP wrote:
> Why does the play button clear my playlist? If I wanted to clear my
> playlist I'd clear it myself. Why doesn't it just add the song after
> the current song in the playlist and play it? Wouldn't that make more
> sense?
>

So what do I do if I want to play a song right now?

Regards,
Peter

GoodVibrations
2008-02-16, 03:51
Hold down "Add" to add the songs as the next in the playlist.
Then press "forward".

JimC
2008-02-16, 12:52
NWP wrote:
> Why does the play button clear my playlist? If I wanted to clear my
> playlist I'd clear it myself. Why doesn't it just add the song after
> the current song in the playlist and play it? Wouldn't that make more
> sense?
>

So what do I do if I want to play a song right now?

Regards,
Peter

Read the manual?

Seriously, though, there is a remote control reference in both the printed documentation and from Help on the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter UI. Lots of good tips on how the buttons work.

At any rate, the PLAY/ADD buttons work as follows:

Press PLAY to clear the Now Playing list and start playing the track/album you selected.

Press ADD (the '+' button) to add to the end of the Now Playing list.

Press and Hold ADD to insert the track(s) to the Now Playing list, immediately following the current song.

If you want to skip the remainder of the current track at that point, just press FFW.

Patrick Dixon
2008-02-16, 12:59
Read the manual?


Shouldn't that be RTFM? - but then I guess you would have to lock the thread :-)

ModelCitizen
2008-02-16, 13:13
Read the manual?Press and Hold ADD to insert the track(s) to the Now Playing list, immediately following the current song.
Unless you have a Jive Controller, in which case don't bother as this has not been implemented.

MC

jeffmeh
2008-02-16, 13:24
Shouldn't that be RTFM? - but then I guess you would have to lock the thread :-)

Unless, of course, the "F" is for "free."

NWP
2008-02-16, 14:19
>
Because that's what the Add button is for.


No, the add button adds a song to the end of a playlist.

I am saying that the obvious intuitive function for the play button would be to add the song immediately after the current position in the playlist and begin to play it.

"Working As Designed" is really only a good response when the design makes sense. But, hey, y'all stick to your guns on this and let the Squeezebox controls continue to baffle and frustrate beginners.

But could you possibly release some sort of optional patch that would allow the rest of us non-purists to have some reasonable functionality?

peter
2008-02-16, 14:31
NWP wrote:
> Michael Herger;269997 Wrote:
>
>> Because that's what the Add button is for.
>>
>>
>
> No, the add button adds a song to the end of a playlist.
>
> I am saying that the obvious intuitive function for the play button
> would be to add the song immediately after the current position and
> begin to play it.
>
> "Working As Designed" is really only a good response when the design
> makes sense. But, hey, y'all stick to your guns on this and let the
> Squeezebox controls continue to baffle and frustrate beginners. But
> you could you possible release some sort of option patch that would the
> rest of us non-purists to have some reasonable functionality?
>

Again, what would - in your situation - be the method to switch to a new
track or new internet radio station immediately? It's al very nice to
come up with new ways to do things, but do us a favor and think things
through fully...

Regards,
Peter

ceejay
2008-02-16, 14:33
OK, so its add-and-hold to add after the next item, but the functionality is still there, Read some recent threads about party mode in which a similar request is discussed. There is a very simple change you can make to the key-mapping file if you feel so inclined.

kdf
2008-02-16, 14:34
On 16-Feb-08, at 1:19 PM, NWP wrote:
>
> "Working As Designed" is really only a good response when
...it does. It's a simple fact. Design is a design and stating this is
simply a fact, nothing more.

The good new is, if you feel you need it to work differently, you are
completely able to make it happen. Create a copy of Default.map,
calling it custom.map.

change all lines with:
play.single = play_0
to :
play.single = play_2

If you want to still have access to the play immediately function, you
can fully swap with the play-an-hold add button by changing all lines
with:
add.hold = play_2
to
add.hold = play_0


restart SqueezeCenter, go into player settings->remote and choose your
custom map.

This way, you get what you want and the thousands of existing happy
users aren't forced to learn a changed behaviour that doesn't make
sense to them.
Enjoy!
cheers,
kdf

peter
2008-02-16, 14:36
NWP wrote:
> you could you possible release some sort of option patch that would the
> rest of us non-purists to have some reasonable functionality?
>
Here we go again: non-purists, reasonable functionality and all just
because people disagree with you...

You can change the IR Default.map so that 'play' becomes 'hold add'.

Regards,
Peter

JJZolx
2008-02-16, 14:36
I am saying that the obvious intuitive function for the play button would be to add the song immediately after the current position in the playlist and begin to play it.

Your obvious intuition must work differently than most.

There's the 'party mode' idea, currently being debated in another thread and for the last several years. Essentially a concept that would lock the interface into working like that of a jukebox. It would keep anyone selecting songs from clearing the playlist. New songs could only be added to the end of the list. This is a great idea, but not likely to be implemented any time soon.

JimC
2008-02-16, 15:00
Shouldn't that be RTFM? - but then I guess you would have to lock the thread :-)

Why on earth would saying "Read The Fine Manual" be a problem?


-=> Jim

NWP
2008-02-16, 15:17
There's the 'party mode' idea, currently being debated in another thread and for the last several years. Essentially a concept that would lock the interface into working like that of a jukebox. It would keep anyone selecting songs from clearing the playlist. New songs could only be added to the end of the list. This is a great idea, but not likely to be implemented any time soon.

I'm certainly not surprised other people have been asking about this, but I am disappointed that we won't see it soon.

It would be nice if the squeezebox could be a useful tool to create and save playlists, but I guess new users should just keep a copy of iTunes or winamp handy to do that. The idea that a playlist that took 30-60 minutes to compile can easily be wiped out with a stray button click or a new user with good intentions just doesn't seem like an intelligent design choice.

And for what? It's not difficult to clear a playlist. Playlists take time to compile. Taking five seconds to clear them with the "clear playlist" function doesn't seem unreasonable


NWP wrote:[color=blue]
Again, what would - in your situation - be the method to switch to a new track or new internet radio station immediately? It's al very nice to come up with new ways to do things, but do us a favor and think things through fully...


The method would still be the play button. The play button would play your choice immediately without the often unintended "oh while I'm at it, I'm going to clear your entire playlist for you too" effect.

Please take the time to read my posts if you are going to respond to them.



The good new is, if you feel you need it to work differently, you are completely able to make it happen. Create a copy of Default.map, calling it custom.map.

Thank you for this. Will this work for the Slimserver web interface, or just the IR remotes? Is there something different for the web interface?

JimC
2008-02-16, 15:24
I am saying that the obvious intuitive function for the play button would be to add the song immediately after the current position in the playlist and begin to play it.

Obvious because...? Intuitive because...? The iPod, which is probably the best known digital music access interface in the world, doesn't work that way. Nor does iTunes, the most used music manager in the world. My car stereo, my CD player, my tape deck, my turntable, etc. don't work that way, either.

What might be obvious to you may very well confuse someone else. It's about point-of-view, previous experience, etc. Every device takes some level of learning, and with an installed base of customers that already use the current methodology, changing it would create grief for a lot of people.

I'm not saying the way it works today is the "right way" but it is THE way it works.


"Working As Designed" is really only a good response when the design makes sense. But, hey, y'all stick to your guns on this and let the Squeezebox controls continue to baffle and frustrate beginners.

See above. Personally, when I became a part of this team and used my first Squeezebox, I made similar mistakes, primarily because I'd worked on the design of MP3 players, music managers, etc. in the past and made assumptions about the controls based on that work. After using the SB for a bit, I understood the decision behind the controls, and while I don't agree with 100% of them, find the remote/menus easy to deal with.

From my personal point-of-view, I'd prefer to see Play/Pause function overloaded on a single button (because that how it's done on a huge number of devices), use ADD to put music in the Now Playing list, and have a "Clear Now Playing list" menu item. Of course, that will confuse some people who would go to an album or artist and press PLAY to play that music, instead of ADD to queue it up. You could say that PLAY would also add to Now Playing, but what happens if music is already playing? Does it pause or queue (or even both!)? It gets complicated, pretty quickly.

Believe it or not, an awful lot of thought has gone into the current behaviors and they are a pretty balanced compromise that give you the functionality we want to deliver without too many modalities or buttons.


-=> Jim

kdf
2008-02-16, 15:30
On 16-Feb-08, at 2:17 PM, NWP wrote:
>
> kdf;270188 Wrote:
>>
>> The good new is, if you feel you need it to work differently, you are
>> completely able to make it happen. Create a copy of Default.map,
>> calling it custom.map.
>
> Thank you for this. Will this work for the Slimserver web interface,
> or just the IR remotes?

Just IR.

> Is there something different for the web
> interface?


There are different skins that offer other buttons to either add,
insert or play now. Default skin requires an added param in the url to
show the extra controls.

-kdf

peter
2008-02-17, 00:09
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:17:27 -0800, "NWP"
<NWP.34w9rb1203200401 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> said:
>
> The method would still be the play button. The play button would play
> your choice immediately without the often unintended "oh while I'm at
> it, I'm going to clear your entire playlist for you too" effect.

You want it to interrupt the currently playing song as well? That wasn't
obvious to me because the last guy who complained about this (two days
ago or so) explicitly did not want this. The proposed IR map change
doesn't do this either.

> Please take the time to read my posts if you are going to respond to
> them.

I did, but I missed this point. That's probably because there are many
ways people think are intuitive and whatever choice the software makes
is going to require some adjustment for some users in the way every
hardware or software package does.

Regards,
Peter

SuperQ
2008-02-17, 01:41
Obvious because...? Intuitive because...? The iPod, which is probably the best known digital music access interface in the world, doesn't work that way. Nor does iTunes, the most used music manager in the world. My car stereo, my CD player, my tape deck, my turntable, etc. don't work that way, either.

Exactly, I can't name a single media player off the top of my head that doesn't replace the playlist when you press a play button on a a track/album.

I suppose XMMS (modeled after winamp) adds to the playlist, but it's clearly labeled "ADD" not "PLAY", And that's to the END of the playlist, not after next track, and won't start playing.

Patrick Dixon
2008-02-17, 04:31
From my personal point-of-view, I'd prefer to see Play/Pause function overloaded on a single button (because that how it's done on a huge number of devices), use ADD to put music in the Now Playing list, and have a "Clear Now Playing list" menu item. Of course, that will confuse some people who would go to an album or artist and press PLAY to play that music, instead of ADD to queue it up. You could say that PLAY would also add to Now Playing, but what happens if music is already playing? Does it pause or queue (or even both!)? It gets complicated, pretty quickly.
That would work pretty well - but rather than have a "Clear Now Playing" function, you could have a "Load" function to mimic the good old days of physical media. Either press and hold the Load button to get Add, or the other way round. Playing a new 'CD' would be a two step Load and Play operation.

The problem with using any of these interfaces for a while, is that you get so used to how they work, you can't rationally evaluate the ergonomics anymore. Exhibit 1 is of course the typewriter keyboard.

Lefatshe
2008-03-11, 15:12
This is a very interesting thread.

The first post said that holding the play button cleared the playlist. And subsequent ones confirmed:

Press PLAY to clear the Now Playing list and start playing the track/album you selected.

This doesn't happen with my remote. If I'm playing from a playlist and I simply hit the PLAY button, it starts the song over. If the message on the Transporter is NOW PLAYING, and I hit the PLAY button it takes me to the screen with information about the song playing. Holding the PLAY button goes to SAVE CURRENT PLAYLIST AS:

I can't find in the manual, or this thread, is how to clear the playlist with my remote. With SqueezeCenter it's easy with the nice clear button in the bottom-right corner. Thanks.

kdf
2008-03-11, 15:45
What I can't seem to find in the manual, or this thread, is how to clear the playlist with my remote.

If you are looking at the Now playing screen, press Left so that you see the "Now Playing" home menu item. Press ADD.

-kdf

kolding
2008-03-11, 15:56
No, the add button adds a song to the end of a playlist.

I am saying that the obvious intuitive function for the play button would be to add the song immediately after the current position in the playlist and begin to play it.


Uh, the "obvious intuitive function" isn't the same for everybody, apparently. For me, the obvious intuitive function is to start playing what you told it to play, not to do strange manipulations of a playlist. But that's just me. I think play should play.

Eric

seanadams
2008-03-11, 16:27
Uh, the "obvious intuitive function" isn't the same for everybody, apparently. For me, the obvious intuitive function is to start playing what you told it to play, not to do strange manipulations of a playlist. But that's just me. I think play should play.


Agreed. You could be completely ignorant of the playlist (now playing) concept, and it would do exactly what you describe: it plays the thing you tell it play.

What NWP has described is a far more abstruse concept: "play this thing now, but when you're done playing this thing, play the other things I told you to play previously". I think that's a wonderful function to offer the more experienced user, and overloading it on the 'add' button is a very useable solution once learned - admittedly though, not an obvious thing to try.

Lefatshe
2008-03-11, 17:13
Thanks kdf and sean for acknowledging the learning curve for playlist = Now Playing, and therefore...as long as the screen is not NOW PLAYING then the ADD button can put albums and albums in genres to the end of the playlist, or be immediately shuffled into the mix, for an evening of fun!

However, if NOW PLAYING is the screen you see, the ADD button clears the playlist. And you start over.

Muchissmas gracias.